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My wife, a recent convert to the church, and I were sealed today to each other and to our 4-month old son. She was still a recent convert when we were married in 2013, so after prayerful consideration, we decided on a civil wedding. 22 months later now, the eternal marriage is complete. I love the gospel so much. The beauty and truthfulness of the gospel serves as protection to us in such a polarized world. I am grateful for the guidance and protection the gospel and Priesthood authority provides us, both temporally and eternally. I just wanted to share something positive and testimonial on here. Thank you for the opportunity to share it.

Because there are tons of stuff the church leaves us to our own discretion on... The problem isn't the church... The problem is the members who think they know better then the church on what the church should focus on. There are tons of members who think their particular "hobby horse" is more important then any one else's and they are quite put out that, God had not revealed to the leaders of the Church what they can see so clearly.. So in their rush to point out the "mote" in everyone else eye they ignore the "beam" in their own. If there is something in your life that you feel you need to change... then do so... But stop trying to pull everyone else along with you.

I've heard other couples who have strayed and repented talk about having this 'mental fog' that clouded how they perceived things while in the affair. It keeps them from seeing how wrong they are and how far they've fallen and even from seeing the things about their spouse that they love. I think it all comes from a need to see ourselves as the hero of our own story, even if we have to lie to ourselves. That's why people need to work with their Bishop in cases like this. He can lead them out of the fog to a point where they see what they did and can begin to really repent.

Guys. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Burn+Notice

I asked my three daughters (11, 13 & 15) why they thought a prison staff member would be tricked into doing favors for an inmate. They all came up with the same answer I had--PRIDE. We think we can help others by trusting them. We think we see what others do not see. We think we can make a difference in a life by being their support. I hate to discourage any of that in the broad sense. However, true humility says we help people by pointing them towards God--not be violating ethics to be a hero. Who knows? Maybe I'm raising up the next generation of prison chaplains. :-) ​

How is, you won't lose your temple recommend over it equal to the church ignores this? The church teaches us to be healthy, take care of our bodies, and not overeat. What you seem to be trying to force down everyone's throat is the idea that overeating ought to be equivalent to smoking or drinking and that anyone who does so -- ever -- should lose their temple recommends on the spot. But that is a garbage idea for a myriad of reasons. The fact that it is a garbage idea and that the church is never going to take temple recommends away from fat people doesn't mean that the church doesn't encourage healthy lifestyles, eating, and exercise.

Today felt really good! No bad feelings afterward! I kept feeling the spirit. One of the high priets drove me home. He is also my home teacher and now he is moving to Stockholm to become temple president there! He and his wife stayed with me and talked for a long time. That probably helped too.

We want to love, be loved, be respected, be liked, by our fellow humans. Also, sometimes we like being owed, being in a position of leverage/power.

I don't see any other point to your imaginary, wildly speculative post other than your desire to be "right" in all things and to continue your hobby of judging others. There are plenty of scriptures and quotes from various sources that I could throw in here, but it would be wasted on someone who won't let anything get in the way of his own personal agenda.

There's 3 more in the refrigerator. I saw their sedan parked out front.

I had a one year civil marriage before my wife and I were sealed one year later in the Salt Lake Temple. After the sealing I felt the LORD in our marriage more. That was a little over 13 years ago. Hopefully we will be one of those who make it. Congratulations!

This may be helpful

The lack of murder, imo, in our day and age is more related to the enforcement of law than it is morality. It's a bit harder to get away with murder -- so people don't. I feel confident that a great many would if they could. But anyhow....murder is a proxy for wickedness? Does wickedness need a proxy? Does it not stand on it's own? I don't think it's provable anyhow by stats. True wickedness is in the heart and the heart alone. Wickedness does not require outward action. Only thought. I tend to believe the wickedness of our day is worse, and growing worse, regardless of outward evidence. But I also think there is a great deal of outward evidence -- murder aside. Heck, I've watched it grow and grow and grow in my own lifetime. Sure, there have been other times when the wickedness reached ridiculous levels. Peaks and valleys throughout history. We certainly aren't the Lamanites and Nephites raping, murdering, and eating everyone around us. But broadly speaking, I trust the end of times is growing to become as wicked as prophesied.

Way to go!

Awesome and Very Nice !!! Congrats

Congrats! :)

There's a quiet part of Sacrament meeting? I thought that was only in YSA wards.

Right! People don't change just because they are dead. The scenery may change but people are still people.

Usually I feel a pit in my stomach when I pay it because of all the bills, etc. I have. That isn't really relevant. I pay it with faith in spite of that. The edification and inspiration come in time. The reward is sure -- in God's time.

If your standard for wickedness is murder, then perhaps.

Gunfights involving the police are a very interesting subject. One of the reasons cops train constantly is that in a typical gun fight, 80% of all shots are missed, which is why you need a high capacity magazine. You get a little nervous when someone is trying to kill you, along with both you and your target moving around. In these situations, putting steel on target is difficult even though the average distance in a gunfight is only 21 feet.. When I went through the police academy we trained to shoot from distances of 5 to 150 feet. We concentrated, though, on distances from the 5 to 21 feet range. Something else that's interesting is that the caliber of the bullet doesn't really matter when it comes to stopping the perp unless you are using a magnum round, a rifled slug, or a .50 BMG. I read a study of 20 years of police involved shootings from NYC. The results of the study was that caliber had no bearing on stopping a suspect. It was shot placement; another reason to constantly train with firearms. This is why I use only with a 9mm. I also don't do much in the way of using the sights. I'm a point shooter and I train only for shooting at the 5 to 21 feet range. This is because I'm no longer a cop and my purpose is not to arrest a perp. If something goes down, it most likely will be up close and personal. At the same time, you are right about the number of rounds it sometimes takes to put a perp down. In the Miami-Dade shootout involving the FBI and two bank robbers, one perp was hit twice with 2 non-survivable wounds, He lived for two full minutes, wounding and killing two or three more agents before he died. Another example is Cole Younger. He was shot 11 times and lived. It also works the opposite way. While in the academy, a 911 tape was played of an undercover officer who lost his radio and had been shot. I don't remember all the circumstances, but he made it to a pay phone and reported in. You could hear the absolute desperation in his voice. He was fully convinced he was going to die. He told the operator to tell his family goodbye and to tell his wife he loved her. You could hear him fade away in spite of everything the operator could do to encourage him to hold on. The officer died while on the phone. The autopsy revealed something very tragic. The officer's wound was non-life threatening. He should have lived through the shooting, but he was so convinced that if you get shot, you automatically die, so, he died. In any type of emergency situation, your mental preparedness is vital. If you aren't mentally ready for a situation, you get surprised and that will kill you.

I agree totally. Point 2 is interesting as when I was at bible college it certainly sounded like gibberish to me! Though there was often interpretation as well. I believed that this was tongues because that was what I was told it was. I even had experience of it myself. Now many years down the line I'm not so sure it was. Is what is called today speaking in tongues the same as what is recorded in the bible? I'm not sure it is.

I acknowledge your strong feelings, but your reasons leave me completely unmoved. The message that the child receives is almost 100% dependent on what the parents tell the child. A simple "Daddy doesn't think it's safe for you to have a door that closes off your bedroom" will be sufficient for pretty much any child. They may not like it, but I see very little chance they would construe it to mean as you say. As for the other, I could as easily (perhaps more easily) make the argument that molestors would close the door so as to hide their deeds, so the door is more of a danger than a help. If a father thinks his children should not have doors on their bedrooms, then I am perfectly willing to let him make that determination without second-guessing his motives.

I can remember being an adolescent in church and really enjoying the presence of the LORD. I thought, "I wish my classmates could sense what I do--they'd convert in an instant!" Summer Bible camp was rich in such times as well. Those who've never tasted cannot understand. On the other hand, when we are drenched in that Spirit, others can sometimes sense that we have something wonderful they are not experiencing.

I'll respond to both Traveler and Carborendum: There seems to be an unnecessary dichotomy here--between the obvious good of helping others and tongues; or between 'superior gifts' and tongues. In the first case I would say I can help the poor and widowed better if I am walking in the fullness of the Spirit. If tongues coincides with spiritual empowerment, then I ought to humble myself enough to receive God's gift, and then go about his business. Concerning Paul's chastising of the Corinthians, they were using tongues in showy ways, carrying on during church services, such that new-comers were confused, and sound teaching was often set to the side, in favor of the ecstatic experiences. Paul also said he was grateful he spoke in tongues more than all of them. He was not belittling tongues, he was blaming the Corinthians for misusing them and neglecting other gifts. I suppose a simple analogy would be that better is superior to good. Yet, good is still good.

Statistics are the most misunderstood and misused of facts. Child of record baptisms and convert baptisms are increasing. They are simply increasing at a pace slightly below the increase in population. Over the last 6 years the Church dropped a whopping .08% as a percentage of the US population (that's just under 1/10 of 1 percent). And though Carborendum failed to mention it, that is limited to the US. The growth of the Church outside the US is even higher (though our numbers as a percent of population are much lower. It's a big world).

Statistics are the most misunderstood and misused of facts. Child of record baptisms and convert baptisms are increasing. They are simply increasing at a pace slightly below the increase in population. Over the last 6 years the Church dropped a whopping .08% as a percentage of the US population (that's just under 1/10 of 1 percent). And though Carborendum failed to mention it, that is limited to the US. The growth of the Church outside the US is even higher (though our numbers as a percent of population are much lower. It's a big world).

So let me make sure I understand you. Here is how the thread has gone between you and me, from my perspective: Chilltothebone: I have always tithed on my income, but now I've read this here talk and I think it says I can deduct all my "expenses" just like a business, which would greatly lower my tithing burden. What do you think? Vort: I think you are not a business. Vort: I also have heard some people claim they shouldn't have to pay any tithing, because they spend all their money. I wish I were more patient with such people. Chilltothebone: The bishop doesnt say that! That's just your opinion! You're self-righteous and pretentious! Do I have it right? So it seems you were not actually interested in hearing others' views, despite your initial claims. It seems rather that you wanted to hear echoes of your own brilliant insights into how to cut down on your tithing burden. You should perhaps be more careful in the future not to ask for honest responses when you don't want them.

As I always advise in these sorts of questions: We should be looking for excuses to give to the Lord His due, not excuses to get out of it.

Exactly how you do this is between you and the Lord. Go to Him, and disregard our opinions if He speaks to the contrary. Having said that: Consider this question: Would I expect a deeper understanding of a gospel principle to lead me to sacrifice more, or less to the Lord? Why? This looks like a loaded, or even a completely rhetorical question on the surface. But I don't intend it to be. After all, compared to the Pharisaical additions to the Law of Moses prevalent in His day, Christ's teachings actually did constitute a scaling back of the requirements of the gospel...in some ways. That's where the "why" question comes in. The letter of the law had been greatly exaggerated to the detriment of the spirit of the law. The Savior's teachings simplified the letter of the law (see Carborendum's post for what I would consider some great applications of that), but simultaneously greatly intensified the spiritual demands behind the law. That's the principle I would take and apply as a test here and elsewhere in the gospel for cases like this. If I thought I had found that the Lord actually expected me to pay a lot less tithing than I already had been, I would exercise a lot of caution and consider first if my spiritual sacrifice would be increasing or decreasing. Because if that's going to be decreasing, then I have a problem. ... ...or, if you don't want to bother with me mixing in my own philosophies and principles with scripture, just read this instead: https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-110-121/section-119-the-law-of-tithing?lang=eng

No, you should not deduct costs as if you were a business. You are not a business.

I suppose primarily from Alma 32:21: And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true. I agree with you that these things are not full definitions of faith. It is clear that faith is a Godly quality; the Lectures on Faith teach that God himself acts and creates through exercise of faith. Thus, "belief without knowing" is obviously not any kind of full definition of faith, since we can't really attribute ignorance to God. But belief without perfect knowledge is certainly an aspect of faith. I think of faith as a many-faceted gem. When we talk about faith, we are usually talking about this or that facet. But sometimes, we should step back and view the whole gem.

I have to apologize. When I read your post it made me chuckle. Then I started to feel guilty and remembered that, had I read this post ten years ago when my child was 14 and announced that she was no longer a Mormon and didn't believe in anything, I would have been crying before I finished your post. Yea, we went through the same thing. And we took it waaay too seriously. And we learned that everyone has to eventually learn for themselves that the gospel is true, that the Lord lives, that Jesus is the Christ. And the process is rarely linear and always messy. Some details that we learned that you might find useful. 1. In spite of raising our children in a gospel centered home, we were shocked (over and over again) to learn just how little she actually knew about the gospel. She "knew" lots and lots of tidbits and details she had gleaned from anti-Mormons but she didn't actually know the gospel. 2. We got more mileage out of the standards that she grew up with than out of the doctrines we taught her. The world that she was attracted to followed none of the standards that the Church teaches (modesty, chastity, Word of Wisdom, etc.) and her discomfort with those things did more to prompt her return than did any specific doctrine (worldly doctrine or gospel doctrine). 3. Time. Give it time. Lots of time. It's been 10 years and this past summer she decided all by herself that she wanted her life to be focused on the gospel that she barely knew. She reached out to the missionaries to come school her on the basics. She started paying tithing and fasting and reading and praying. 4. Nothing mattered more than for her to know that her parents love her. Anguish over her on your own time. When she's around it needs to be all smiles and hugs. She knows good and well that you pray for her every night with tears steaming. She doesn't need to have that rubbed in her face. And for the parent, not you, who has actually lost a child to world and is beyond hoping to see them return there is some little solace in remembering that Ezra Taft Benson has a son who is a staunch anti-Mormon. So did Joseph Smith. And so does our Heavenly Father.

We weren't a part of your Quorum meeting so we can't know the exact context of the remarks. If we take the comments to mean, as you seem to have, that we only need to do the minimum (the basics) then you are correct. That's not the path to exaltation. If we take the comments to mean that we need to focus on the fundamentals (the basics) then that is presicely the way to exaltation.

I'm pretty sure I shared this here before, but when I was three I was more articulate than most three year olds, I can remember sitting on the bench and smelling something horrible. Let's just say it was pretty close to my dad's particular 'flavor'. I'm not sure when it was during the meeting, but there was someone up talking at the stand and I was under the impression that it was a prayer. Let's just say the odor was bad enough that I lost my decorum and belted out "DADDY FARTED!" at the top of my little lungs. From what I heard later the person at the podium about choked trying not to laugh. After he was done, the bishop got up and said "Don't we love our little ones?" Of course the worst part is that it wasn't my dad. We never did find out for sure who it was, but my mom told me that the lady one row in front of us turned a very bright shade of red. To my father's credit, I'm still alive.

I don't think he came up with this on his own. And I do think there are larger issues involved here. dc

Yes I don't know many if at all any 14 year olds that are having issues with these things. Sounds more like adult issues of understanding or misunderstanding.