Leaderboard

I really don't understand the anger about this. Wait. Yes, I do. It comes mostly from those who are always looking for another excuse to get angry at the church. It comes from those who have a temper tantrum any time the church doesn't do things their way. I was a little puzzled when I first started reading about the handbook changes but the more I thought about it, I understood that it's a good thing and not the evil, hurtful, politically-incorrect attack. It is actually policy meant to protect children, families, and the church. Take the LDS church and same-sex marriage out of it for a moment. You have a minor child who gets interested in a religion through...say...social activities with a friend. The religion is at complete odds with the parents' beliefs/lifestyle. Joining the religion is going to cause a rift...friction...between the child and parents. Why should that be encouraged? And it is a child we are talking about. A still maturing mind and heart. Having beliefs at odds with one another can cause difficulties in a marriage where you are dealing with two adults, who have more experience, education and maturity and they often are unable to navigate the differences and keep the marriage together, but we expect children to deal with all of this and burden them with the responsibility of keeping a family together? Because that is how it is going to feel to them and that is what the naysayers are asking them to do. How does it help the children, the family....anyone....if you have a child who dearly loves his/her parents, but learns that their parents' behavior and choices are at odds with the church? Why would you place such a burden on a child's shoulders? You are expecting them to understand things that they cannot possibly understand and make choices they should never have to as a child. I see this as policy meant to help families, not hurt them. To protect children. And, yes, I think it protects the church, too. There are those with an agenda of hatred who - as same-sex parents whose child is interested in joining the church - would gleefully welcome an opportunity to attack the church (or any and everyone who doesn't agree with their world-view), claiming that the church is harming the child and their family by teaching their child "bigotry", etc. The word 'cult' would be thrown around. Lawsuits would happen. And their goal would be to eradicate anything and anyone who doesn't share their same beliefs. Because that is what the goal is for more and more people. It's not enough that people get to live their chosen lifestyle, that they got to change the definition of marriage, etc. They want EVERYONE to come around to their world-view and not be allowed to live or believe in a way different to their own. And I am not talking just about gay people. I am talking about the growing numbers of people who think any kind of religion is wrong. Its not enough that they have the freedom to not believe in God or live whatever lifestyle they so choose, they don't want anyone else believing in God, either. Just recently here in Portland, some school districts have banned choirs from singing at The Grotto, a beautiful piece of Catholic property, during The Festival of Lights at Christmas time. Because - obviously - singing a few Christmas songs in such a location is somehow "forcing religion down our throats". I guess if you sing a Christmas Carol in such a location - shazam! - you are forced against your will to be a Catholic or something. A few years back, I was personally aware of a situation where one spouse wanted to convert to Judaism but the other parent objected and it was putting the marriage at risk. The rabbi in this situation counseled that he could not recommend - nor would he be a participant in - potentially breaking up a family over it. That if the choice was between the marriage or the conversion, that the correct choice would be the marriage. A child with same-sex parents would be placed in a difficult situation that could cause great distress to them and to the family. It actually seems the kinder thing to me to not place a minor child in that situation. Let them participate as they can, but it makes great sense to have them wait until adulthood to officially join the church if they still so choose. Their salvation is not being denied in any way. They are not being condemned to hell or however all of the malcontents are saying it on FaceBook and internet forums. They are being relieved of some burdens and responsibilities that those who are only looking to their own selfish needs would place on shoulders too young to bear it. And they will get to make the decision to join the church when they are no longer a vulnerable child. The church isn't about destroying families. The church would not institute a policy that would cause such. This policy is actually trying to preserve families. But the anti-church people (members as well as non-members) can only see their own selfish, short-sighted needs and refuse to the eternal goals at work here. I've been woefully inarticulate here. But I have been pondering and praying and I have received confirmation that this comes from a loving Heavenly Father through those He has appointed to lead us through these increasingly difficult times.

Where is this idea coming from that disavowing one's parents' beliefs and practices is the same as disavowing one's parents? So all these ex-Mormon folk can disavow their LDS families' beliefs and still declare how they love and support their families (and I believe the sincerity)... but they're the only ones? People are being asked to commit to church teachings and put themselves in a situation of independence from apostasy. Not reject and shun their parents.

Well, I've finally determined that "Facebook" is the "court of public opinion". I know that if everyone was sitting in a room, that we'd be more cordial and polite about each other's beliefs than what I'm seeing on Facebook lately. So... I've decided to delete my account. I'm tired of debate without results. I'm tired of judgment being passed without an OUNCE of understanding our doctrines or of the legal consequences of such decisions. I'm tired of "pointless" defending of my faith when it doesn't matter. And I'm tired of having to hear about little details about my faith or my church and somehow, it's up to everyone else to talk about how "wrong" or "evil" it is. So, I'm simply abdicating my position from the debates. There's nothing in the scriptures that says that you HAVE to debate with people in order to be a good example of the faith. Yes, I can debate and teach the doctrinal points of our doctrines... but I don't have to. And I choose not to be baited into these things anymore.

Another testament for me that we are guided by Heavenly Father through his servant, prophets and apostles. When the Lord's servants make decision, since the beginning, there will always be some who kick against the pricks. The Church's stance hasn't changed, won't change, and will continue to make decisions in light of truth, intelligence. Upon reading comments these are the thoughts I have: 1) Article of Faith #2, is about children not being condemned for parent sins; however, we are full aware that parental decision will and do affect children. I am not punished for Adam's (Eve's) transgression. I will be punished for my own. I am however, accepting the consequence of their decision. Children are not kept back from the natural consequences of their parents decisions. When father and mother remove themselves from the Church, children will face the consequences of that decision. 2) Divine approval. Our leaders do not make decisions without much thought, and without much prayer. Their decisions, especially that enter into the Church Handbook are done as specified by President Harold B. Lee, "You may be sure that your brethren who preside are praying most earnestly, and we do not move until we have the assurance, so far as lies within our power, that what we do has the seal of divine approval." Despite this truth, there will be individuals who think, due to their learning, they are more wise than those the Lord has called to hold keys of authority. They are more concerned with the Church agreeing with them, then they agreeing with the Lord. They will be more concerned with the Church appearing in likeness after the manner of men, rather than the glory of God. Or as President Benson said, "The proud...pit their perceptions of truth against God's great knowledge...The proud wish God would agree with them. They aren't interested in changing their opinions to agree with God's," as directed by his servants, the prophets. 3) As the world continues to ripe in iniquity, the Church will lay down, more specifically its boundaries. They will become more specific and more direct with Church policies and practices to reflect the constant change of thought by the natural human. One thing for sure, although the manner of flesh, the carnal mind, will always change -- the Church will remain constant. 4) I am confused as to how some think that because they love a son or daughter who is actively gay that they will be punished, or apostate. If you condone the sin, preach against the Lord's servants (Oath and Covenant of Priesthood), then yes, ridicule of the Lord's servants has always been, and will always be, a sign of apostasy. I love my brother-in-law who is actively gay, but that doesn't mean I condone his behavior, and I know my Church membership will not be affected because I hang out, love, hug, and care for them. This is another testament, witness, that we are lead by the heavens, and we have leaders who aren't concerned with the world and its opinions. Thank goodness for inspired leadership, despite nay sayers.

So many situations come to mind that aren't black and white. One of my friends husband came out several years ago, left her and now is living with a man. They have joint custody of the kids. She is very faithful to the church. I would imagine it would be a no brainer that her little ones be baptized since they only spend one out of three weekends with the dad. But, he is actually apostate and living in sin. If he were to deny them baptism, what then? ...ack! It seems to be getting messier than a can of worms. I only pray that each and every bishop who has to deal with these situations does so with great love and wisdom beyond their own- meaning with exceptional help from the Lord. I fear there will be many(people and maybe a few bishops) who twist and turn things and just make a bigger mess of it all. Yet a bigger stumbling block. (Big sigh!)

As I was reading the 28th chapter of 2nd Nephi in the Book of Mormon this morning, I was struck by how well many Latter-day Saints are fulfilling the prophecies in this chapter: “All is well in Zion.” I've lived in three different countries and the attitude is the same no matter where I've been. It doesn't change from country to country or ward to ward. All too many members are content with believing that they will learn everything they need to know to gain their exaltation from attending church. I like to talk to various members regarding various points of doctrine and principle. I listen to comments made in priesthood and Sunday school and it's pretty much the same thing. Many members are uninformed as to what has been taught by church leaders in the past and even now. They do nothing to gain knowledge and intelligence. For that matter, they don't even know what is the definition of intelligence. When I moved back to the U.S., the first thing I did was to implement a crash program to get my food storage and ordered a lot of wheat. I made announcements in Elder's Quorum that I was trying to get orders to make up a large enough order for the wheat to be delivered directly to my home. I made this announcement more than once. Not one single person was interested. My neighbor did make a sizable order. What I did get were some comments that left me shaking my head. The Elder's Quorum president said that he had a bunch of alfalfa and then one of his counselors said he had a couple cows and they could trade. Other comments involved hunting, etc. When I talked to my neighbor and asked about buying one of their calves to raise and slaughter, she told me her husband wouldn't even slaughter one for his own family. He got too much money for each cow and they could buy their beef from the store. All was well in Zion. This is the prevailing attitude in every single ward I've ever been in. There is an interesting correlation that may or may not mean anything, but it is interesting. I was reading the book, “Life Everlasting,” by Duane Crowther and came across a quote by Elder Heber C. Kimball. He doubted that more than 5% of Latter-day Saints would enter the Celestial Kingdom. Then, several months later, I read a conference report that cited a 1976 study from the University of Utah regarding the food storage of LDS. Only 5% had a year supply of grain products. By itself, this correlation doesn't mean all that much, but when I look at other items, I begin to think that Elder Kimball was right. The activity rate of the church is somewhere around 35% and among the YSA it is only 15%. I look at the home teaching rates, which aren't very good at all. In the last 22 years I've only had one consistent home teacher. I hear the same thing, time and time again from other members. In the past three months, I've asked the Elder's Quorum president four times for a home teaching route and have yet to be assigned one. Then I look at things like modesty. Modesty is the foundation stone of chastity. What I see are women and the men who condone it, dressing to what they think is modest, yet is against what you see as examples on the church web site. What I see among the members is modesty according to the world. I also see members, both men and women who have the latest, fancy fashions thinking they are being modest. This goes completely against scripture. What do your clothes look like? I see both sides of the coin. The world tells men and women, “dress for success, dress for attention, to look sharp, to stand out from the crowd; if you've got it, flaunt it, etc.” Then I see those who don't care one bit what they look like. You get the 300 pound woman in yoga pants or the 400 pound man in Speedo's and tank top that doesn't cover his belly. Then there are those who dress, not to conform, not to get attention, but to conceal their body. It isn't that they are ashamed of their bodies, but they respect the temple God gave them. Their dress demonstrates their inner commitment to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'll once again go back to one of my pet peeves with the LDS: lack of knowledge. One of the most prevalent things I have found among the LDS is a contentment with thinking that they will be taught everything they need to know in Church: the basics. They don't come right out and say this, but it is obvious when I listen to their comments. Joseph Smith said that knowledge is salvation. The basics only give you a foundation for the necessary higher knowledge. The basics are attending church each week, reading the scriptures daily and praying twice each day. That's it. Saying that doing the basics are enough is like saying the average sixth grader knows enough to graduate from high school. What about the advanced subjects like regular temple attendance, faithful home/visiting teaching, family history work, church assignments, charity, etc. How about the one temple recommend question that always makes me think before I answer it: Are you honest in all your dealings? And then, there is faith. You can be a very nice person: giving, charitable, attend church, yadda, yadda, yadda, but if you don't have the necessary faith, you won't return to your Heavenly Father. Our faith is to be childlike. A child believes anything you tell him. Do we believe the correct principles we are taught or does our worldly education get in the way? We believe in Christ, but do we believe Christ? Do we believe that he can and will heal us? Do we believe that he his atonement will save us? I doubt my own ability to return to my Heavenly Father. I'm pretty sure that Elder Kimball was right.

Hi everyone, I'm providing this list just in case it should provide some interesting discussions or as a reference for the future. When I ran the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism site, I kept track of anti-Mormon vandalism and violence I found in the media for several years. I stopped maintaining the list in 2014. This isn't an exhaustive list, but it is fairly comprehensive. This list is old and some of the links may not work anymore as the hosting web sites may change their contents over time. Some of the pictures and videos may not link properly. If I can't fix them, and if the moderators feel that it's not worth it, I can remove them. I just think this could be a valuable source. I will probably post a couple other useful references that I developed in the next few days. 20 June 1996 Five LDS chapels in Sandy, Utah spray-painted by vandals. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/496854/5-LDS-CHAPELS-IN-SANDY-DEFACED-WITH-SPRAY-PAINT.html 27 May 2001 Sandy, Utah Vandals broke into and damaged a LDS meetinghouse causing over $100,000 in damage. Police said it was the worst case they had ever seen. Vandals smashed light fixtures, glass, sprayed fire extinguishers, and damaged every faucet and toilet, causing flooding throughout the building. http://www.mormonnews.com/010601/D1SandyVandalism01.shtml 26 April 2002 Magna, Utah meetinghouse vandalized. Window broken, cleaning materials spilled out around the building. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/910270/ 24 February 2003 Vandals in Orem deface LDS meetinghouse. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/966745/Vandals-in-Orem-deface-an-LDS-meetinghouse.html 31 December 2004 Sandy, Utah meetinghouse. "Numerous obscenities and derogatory remarks aimed at homosexuals, blacks and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were spray-painted over the majority of the church's outside walls. There was no vandalism inside the church." http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600101550/Vandals-scrawl-graffiti-on-LDS-meetinghouse.html 4 January 2006 Elder Morgan Young, a Mormon missionary murdered in Chesapeake, Virginia http://www.ksl.com/?sid=145847&nid=148 8 November 2006 LDS church in Canyon Rim attacked with graffiti, Molotov cocktail. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/650205249/Church-is-attacked.html 24 April 2007 Two teens plead guilty to arson in blaze of Sugar House LDS meetinghouse. Incident occurred 6 November 2006, http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5737686 19 November 2007 Mormon meetinghouse burned down by arsonist. Here's the story about the building being rebuilt. http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/mesa/mormon_church_rebuilt_10_24_2009 5 April 2008 Mormon missionary assaulted in Mesa, Arizona http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/233064.php 22 April 2008 LDS family's home sprayed with anti-Mormon grafitti http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5723152.html 2 May 2008 LDS missionary assaulted in Richmond, Virginia, leaving him with a broken jaw. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695275658/LDS-missionary-suffers-broken-jaw.html 14 August 2008 Cottonwood, Arizona meetinghouse vandalized. Break-in, spray-painted walls and furniture, destroyed artwork on walls, damaged computers in clerk offices, discharged fire extinguishers. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705323563/Arizona-LDS-church-vandalized.html?linkTrack=rss-44 10 September 2008 Arson suspected in fire at the St. Paul Temple (which is actually in Oakdale, Minnesota.) http://wcco.com/crime/arson.mormon.temple.2.814345.html 17 October 2008 Mormon elders attacked in Australia. One of them was hospitalized for multiple stab wounds. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27210832/ 5 November 2008 The Meridian web site (www.ldsmag.com) was brought down by a distributed denial of service attack. Meridian often ran articles supporting California Proposition 8. 7 November 2008 A LDS meetinghouse in Orangevale, California was spray-painted with "No on 8" and "hypocrites." http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/479857.aspx 8 November 2008 LDS meetinghouse in Saint Louis Obispo defaced along with several other Christian churches. http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/479857.aspx 10 November 2008 Five LDS meetinghouses in Layton, Utah had their windows shot out with a BB gun. A crowd of 400 protested in front of the Oakland Temple. http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/479857.aspx 12 November 2008 2500 protesters at the Los Angeles Temple. Some Hispanic women who tried to remove the desecrating signs from the temple grounds were beaten by a mob. LDS meetinghouse in Sacramento was spray-painted with "No on 8." http://www.calcatholic.com/mobile/newsArticleMobile.aspx?id=f78a0a5d-afde-4f6b-90f6-5c21123a7f98 A Book of Mormon was set afire on the doorstep of a Mormon meetinghouse in Arapahoe, Colorado http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_10964515?source=commented-news 14 November 2008 Envelopes containing suspicious white powder were received at the Salt Lake and Los Angeles temples of the Church, forcing the sacred edifices to be closed, evacuated, and decontaminated. The FBI was involved with the investigation. It was presumed to be related to the recent Proposition 8 passage. 19 November 2008 A Syracuse, NY LDS Seminary building was evacuated and police responded with HAZMAT teams in response to a report of a suspicious package received at the building. Police reacted strongly due to earlier reports in the week of white powder in suspicious packages in Utah and California. http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Suspicious-package-delivered-to-LDS-seminary/qNe7QLWPMEe678SlOmOGZQ.cspx 19 November 2008 South Park creators announce "Mormon Musical," which ridicules latter-day saints. 29 November 2008 Protesters harassed visitors at the Mesa Arizona Temple's annual Christmas decoration lighting. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/28/20081128gaymarriage1128.html 1 Feb 2009 LDS meetinghouse windows broken, "significantly damaged." Two arrested. http://www.kidk.com/news/38780982.html 17 February 2009 LDS and Presbyterian churches vandalized in Oregon http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705285668/Vandals-hit-two-churches-in-Oregon.html 2 April 2009 Anti-Mormon protesters disrupt the Mesa Temple Easter Pageant http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0407ldsprotest0407.html http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/11/29/20081129B2Story1129.html 22 April 2008 The Victoria Advocate, reported the vandalism of a Mormon family's home. http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/search/archives/?q=vandalism+mormon+family&search_type=archives 15 May 2009 Suspicious fire in Centerville burns LDS meetinghouse. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=6497677 17 June 2009 17 June 2009 Las Vegas police investigated a religious-based threat made against local family. The incident included a threatening message written on a driveway, a bomb threat, and anti-Mormon grafitti painted on a street nearby. Police put a nearby school on lockdown while they made their investigation. http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Vegas-Police-Anti-Mormon-graffiti-referring-to/KwXu2E21d0CREMIptDGRLQ.cspx 11 August 2009 A LDS meetinghouse in Grand Junction, Colorado was vandalized. No apparent anti-Mormon motive. http://cbs4denver.com/crime/Mormon.Church.Grand.2.1124625.html 24 July 2009 LDS chapel in Medford, Camden County, New Jersey was vandalized by a retired police officer who, in the throes of an psychological episode, was turned down for a job by an LDS church member. According to the Courier Post Online, former police Sgt. Kurt Levins: "...With a black permanent marker, the 54-year-old defamed an oil painting of Jesus coming out of the heavens, boldly writing a message from 'Lucifer.'" "Levins -- later determined to be psychotic -- continued down the hall of the red brick church into the chapel room. He defamed a mahogany pulpit on the altar, etching into it a threatening message to Mormon legend Porter Rockwell. Then, he fired nine shots into the back paneling of the altar and left." http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20110220/NEWS01/102200344/Church-break-in-miraculously-under-wraps Amazingly, this story was kept out of the press by request of the police department and cooperation from local Mormon leaders. Levin, who faced up to 10 years incarceration for the charges, received probation with conditions that he be periodically tested to ensure he remained on his medications and prohibits him from owning firearms. 14 August 2009 Cottonwood, Arizona LDS church vandalized http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705323563/Arizona-LDS-church-vandalized.html 4 September 2009 Missionaries in Guyana arrested on immigration charges. Political motives were suspected because the LDS members were predominantly represented in the opposition party. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7794528 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705327723/LDS-missionaries-released-in-Guyana.html 6 October 2009 Two apparently drunk men broke and stole a 30-pound replica of the Book of Mormon off a statue on Temple Square. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705334545/2-men-accused-of-swiping-bronze-Book-of-Mormon-from-Brigham-Young-statue.html 9 October 2009 Two teens arrested for vandalism of a meetinghouse in Alvin, Texas http://spamlds.ning.com/xn/detail/2015866:Topic:16967 12 October 2009 Five LDS meetinghouses in Utah had windows broken, rocks with message "Stop spreading your lies, pagans." http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comments/705336281/Police-investigate-church-vandalism.html 16 November 2009 Authorities are investigating a case of vandalism of Mormon headstones in a historical cemetery in a Wyoming ghost town. http://www.mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/mormon_experience/?id=11695&preview=1 28 November 2009 Two men shot at a Church dance in Ontario, California. According to the linked source, The men were "attending a dance at the church when a fight broke out and an unknown number of suspects opened fired outside. Police did not know whether the two men were targeted or were hit randomly. No one has been arrested and the motive for the shooting is under investigation. This one may not be related to anti-Mormonism, but I've learned not to discount it because investigations often turn up surprising facts or sometimes individual incidents are part of a string of related events. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/two-men-shot-and-injured-outside-ontario-church-dance.html January 2010 An LDS family in the vicinity of Sacramento, California (Natomas) had their car vandalized with anti-Mormon messages http://news.yahoo.com/video/local-15749667/17571970 18 January 2010 A suspicious package was left in the parking lot of an LDS meetinghouse in Menifee, California (between L.A. and San Diego). A police hazardous response team investigated and found a rock wrapped up in a package to appear like an explosive device. Police consider it a malicious prank. http://www.swrnn.com/southwest-riverside/2010-01-18/news/suspicious-package-in-menifee-church-parking-lot-was-possible-prank 27 January 2010 Man arrested in a month-long hate-crime spree that defaced several churches with anti-Christian and anti-Semitic grafitti. The individual is also a suspect in the setting of a fire at a temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Snoqualmie, Washington. The arrested man's family claim the suspect is mentally ill. 19 April 2010 Two LDS meetinghouses in Idaho Falls, Idaho were damaged by rocks thrown through plate glass windows on doors and classrooms. The rocks had anti-Mormon slogans like "Read the Bible," "Joseph Smith was a liar," and "Mormonism is false" written on them. May 17 2010 Police are seeking a man who tried to set fire to the Los Angeles Temple. According to a KTKA report, the suspect entered the Church property around 10:30 a.m. carrying combustible material in backpack. The man was monitored on security cameras. He was unable to get inside the locked doors, but a few hours later a suspicious fire broke out in a garden are on the temple grounds. A picture and description of the suspect is found at the link below: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-mormon-church-fire,0,6360738.story 29 August 2010 A Mormon bishop, Clay Sannar, was fatally shot in a Church in Visalia, California on Sunday after services. The suspect, whose name has not been released, entered the Church asking to speak to a Church leader. The suspect shot Bishop Sannar in the foot and dragged him into the foyer and then shot the Bishop in the face, according to witnesses. The suspect, who was not a member of the Church, was found by police and killed after an exchange of gunfire. Police have not established a motive in the killing. Bishop Sannar leaves behind a wife and six sons. Please pray for the Sannar family in this time of grief and bereavement. See links below for details: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=12203700 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700061255/Mormon-bishop-fatally-shot-in-California-chapel.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/29/lay-bishop-mormon-church-killed-calif-office/?test=latestnews Visalia shooter was a former member who turned anti-Mormon. Stanislaus county court shows in 2000, Ward and his wife both attempted suicide, suffocated their pets, and wrote anti-gay and anti Mormon slurs on their apartment walls. Two years later Ward's mother called police saying her son was acting crazy and threatening to kill people. Then in 2004, ward was arrested for making death threats against a Mormon Church leader and police saying “I'm gonna kill that police chief and lots of cops.” http://www.cbs47.tv/news/local/story/More-Information-About-the-Suspect-Kenneth-Ward/FyLK6ZtSaECQAi_wbI0WmQ.cspx 8 September 2010 A West Linn, Oregon police spokesman asked for the public's help to find he vandals who spray-painted anti-Mormon slurs at a new meetinghouse of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Sgt. Neil Hennelly said a church maintenance supervisor found graffiti on Aug. 29 against "Mormans." Hennelly says church officials told him they suffered vandalism "10 or 12" times while the meeting house was under construction but never reported it to police. The slurs were accompanied by a spray-painted image of a bong-style marijuana pipe. The police spokesman noted there were long, contentious discussions over city planning and zoning issues. Anti-Mormons organized to block the construction of the building and held it up in the zoning board. The Church announced its intent to build on the property in 2002. After a court battle that included two trips to the Oregon Supreme Court, they returned to West Linn officials in late 2005 with a plan that added land and agreed to add trees and a 6-foot-high brick wall to help muffle noise. Read more: http://www.newsok.com/anti-mormon-slurs-painted-on-new-or-meeting-house/article/feed/189473#ixzz0z49O2m8h 16 October 2010 http://www.kirotv.com/news/25412144/detail.html A LDS meetinghouse in Mukilteo, Washinton was destroyed by a fire. Investigators have determined that the cause was arson. The local authorities and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms are investigating the incident. Update 20 November 2010: Investigators determine that a Molotov cocktail was the cause of ignition of the fire. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013477978_police_molotov_cocktail_ignite.html 23 October 2010 Pleasant Grove, Utah LDS church was vandalized and burned by a group of teenagers. Three boys and one girl, ages 13-14 were seen by witnesses and charged by police. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/article_7fdb350f-49a2-5b2e-8278-af6d1a5df814.html 30 October 2010 Two LDS meetinghouses burned in Salt Lake City, believed to be arson. The chapels torched were located at 2702 South Main and 3219 S. 300 East. Individuals with information are asked to call the South Salt Lake Police at 801-840-4000. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700077570/Two-LDS-meetinghouses-burn-in-South-Salt-Lake.html?pg=1 Update: On 26 July 2011, Patrick Ehat pleaded guilty to charges of arson. The arsonist was sentenced to probation, restitution, and completing a mental health program. The offender apparently suffers from mental illness, was estranged from his family. He was formerly a missionary for the Church before he was excommunicated. Ehat admitted to police investigators that he had a grudge against the Church since his excommunication--that would qualify this as an anti-Mormon church burning. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705388202/Arsonist-who-caused-400K-damage-to-2-Mormon-meetinghouses-gets-probation.html http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-suspect-arrest-in-alleged-church-fires,0,5806771.story 21 December 2010 Mark Eric Bayne, 36, of Salt Lake City, threatened to kill Mormons on his Facebook page, resulting in his arrest. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Bayne used his Facebook page" to post a status update on Nov. 26 that referred to Mormons as the 'worst form of humanity' and made threats to 'take at least thirty of their women and children [at the cost of each man] EVER DAY,' the complaint states. The message continues on to label “primary targets,” whose identities have been redacted from the complaint." The SLTrib web site reports that Bayne "appeared before U.S. Magistrate Sam Alba on Friday and will next appear in court on Tuesday. He faces up to five years in federal prison if convicted of the charge. Bayne is being held in the Davis County Jail under the custody of U.S. Marshals until his detention hearing next week." http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50897701-76/bayne-complaint-facebook-threats.html.csp 2 February 2011 A LDS meetinghouse was vandalized in Rancho Palos Verdes, authorities reported Tuesday. This is the third in a series of vandalism/graffiti incidents against non-mainstream Christian churches in the area. Two other churches vandalized were a Jehovah's Witness kingdom hall and a Seventh-Day Adventist church. Source: http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_17263881 14 March 2011 Two Mormon churches in Jacksonville, Florida were defaced. According to the article: "Richard Lee Settle was arrested after his Visa debit card was discovered at the site of one of the desecrations. At the Mormon church at 5100 Firestone Road, there were three scrolls spray-painted in red, blue and black paint and a “suspicious package,” containing tobacco products and the debit card, the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office reported. Graffiti around the building included a Star of David, a question mark, a plus sign, a multiplication sign, the word “dragon,” and a reference to a Biblical verse." A second LDS church at another location was defaced in the exact same manner. According to the source: "Investigators reported that Settle has been known to target Jewish facilities, Mormon facilities and federal government buildings for about 15 years and has done so in a similar fashion, usually identifying himself as the culprit." Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-03-13/story/two-jacksonville-mormon-churches-defaced#ixzz1GbqP8r2S 18 March 2011 An LDS meetinghouse was vandalized in Orland, California. Police say it appears to be the work of juveniles and is probably not a hate crime. Approximately $600 in damages resulted from the vandals discharging a fire extinguisher and trying to start a fire with some religious pamphlets. Source: http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_17642600 13 May 2011 Police are investigating the seventh incident, yes SEVENTH, incident of vandalism at the Richlands, Washington temple siince January of this year. According to the KVEW-TV web site, "Five of the incidents have involved someone throwing rocks or bricks through glass windows or doors.Two of the incidents have involved tires being slashed on vehicles parked at the temple." Source: http://www.kvewtv.com/article/2011/may/13/richland-police-investigate-vandalism-lds-temple/ 20 July 2011 LDS meetinghouse in Cookeville, Tennessee was vandalized with Christian religious graffiti. A cross was painted on the side of the building with the words "Amen" and "Why? Because he first loved us." Police are investigating the vandalism. Members are concerned because of the clear religious overtones of the graffiti. Source: http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15110513/graffiti-have-some-worried-about-hate-crime Video link: http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15110513/graffiti-have-some-worried-about-hate-crime?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6067352 26 July 2011 LDS meetinghouse vandalized in Missoula, Montana vandalized. A high school across the street was apparently the primary target, but the LDS meetinghouse had some windows broken. This was probably not related to anti-Mormonism, but we record all instances of vandalism in case a pattern emerges. Source: http://www.kaj18.com/news/vandals-hit-big-sky-high-school/ 3 December 2011 Graffiti at a Mormon meetinghouse in Rowland Heights, California is being investigated at a hate crime . Authorities have not yet released any information about the nature of the crime at this time. Source: http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_19464698 15 December 2011 "Police and fire crews are investigating an arson-caused fire that heavily damaged an LDS Church stake house" in Santaquin, Utah. http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Arson-suspected-in-LDS-church-fire/-r9tlLh3W0-AoyX6LnJpcw.cspx http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705395860/Arson-suspected-in-Mormon-meetinghouse-fire-in-Santaquin.html Update from 7 March 2012: One of the two teens involved, an unnamed 16 year-old, pleaded guilty to arson in court. A second suspect, age 17, will stand trial shortly. Sources: http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_19464698 http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53668409-78/court-juvenile-church-fire.html.csp Update #2: 22 March 2012 - The second suspect in the arson incident pleaded guilty to charges. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53771781-78/teen-church-guilty-juvenile.html.csp 23 December 2011 LDS meetinghouse in Pocatello, Idaho vandalized. Police noticed lights on in the building around 6:30 a.m. and investigated, finding a 22 year-old male inside trashing the building. The man claimed at first to be a custodian, but was later found to have no association with the Church. The man was taken into custody for a mental health evaluation. http://www.localnews8.com/news/30064816/detail.html 4 February 2012 LDS meetinghouse, two homes, and several cars were vandalized in Fruitland, Davis County, Utah. The meetinghouse was sprayed with graffiti that read "Psalms 144:1." The verse says, "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." One of the homes was sprayed with "Jesus loves me" and the third with unspecified vulgarity. Police believe this isn't a hate crime, but the work of juveniles. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700222232/Police-investigating-vandalism-incidences-in-Davis-County.html 14 March 2012 Mormon missionaries' car torched in St. George, Utah in incident of arson. http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2012/03/13/vehicle-arson-in-middleton-leaves-lds-missionaries-puzzle/ 14 June 2012 Riverside County (California) sheriff’s deputies have arrested two men and two boys suspected of vandalizing a Mormon church Thursday, June 14, in Jurupa Valley. Diego Desantiago and Enrique Gomez, both 18 and of Jurupa Valley, were arrested for investigation of burglary, committing a hate crime and conspiracy, the Sheriff’s Department said in a news release. http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/riverside/riverside-headlines-index/20120620-jurupa-valley-4-suspects-arrested-in-church-vandalism.ece Follow-up, 31 December 2012: Four police investigators are being awarded the Joseph Sherwood Prize for Combating Hate by the Anti-Defamation League for their work in rapidly solving and making arrests for the 14 June 2012 incident. http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/riverside/riverside-headlines-index/20121231-religion-police-awarded-for-combating-hate-crime.ece 29 June 2012 Tolleson, Arizona meetinghouse fire determined to be a case of arson. http://www.azfamily.com/news/PD-LDS-church-fire-an-arson-case-161617255.html 3 July 2012 LDS meetinghouse in Cedar City, Utah the target of vandalism. http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20120703/NEWS01/307030001/Vandals-tear-up-inside-LDS-church?nclick_check=1 http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/07/01/20120701tolleson-church-fire-national-team-aids.html 7 October 2012 Soda bottle bombs found at a Hagerstown, Maryland LDS chapel. Police investigated report of 13 soda bottle bombs, described as "chemical-reaction devices." The bottles contained hydrochloric acid and aluminum foil. Ten of the items had exploded and the remainder were secured by the fire department. A neighbor notified police when the devices were spotted. http://articles.herald-mail.com/2012-10-07/news/34310133_1_soda-bottle-bombs-hydrochloric-acid-church-of-jesus-christ 12 November 2012 Teen jailed for causing $40,000 damages to LDS chapel. According to The Frontiersman: “Multiple computers throughout the building were destroyed, door handles knocked off many of the doors damaging the door and handle in the process, bathroom mirrors destroyed, electronic components for the building systems destroyed, pictures destroyed, damage to the pulpit, damage (to the church’s organ),” Peters wrote. “The clean up alone for the fire extinguisher mess cost $14,000 because of the powder getting into the ventilation system. That needed to be done twice.” http://www.frontiersman.com/news/teen-jailed-for-causing-damage-to-lds-ward-building/article_040f911c-2d51-11e2-8b5e-0019bb2963f4.html 6 May 2013 State and federal authorities investigated a fire at a Mormon meetinghouse in Ogden, Utah. Cause of the fire was a Molotov cocktail incendiary device thrown into the building. Damage was limited to the kitchen area of the building where the device had been thrown in a window. The ATF and FBI are investigating. Source: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56270315-78/fire-church-ogden-bureau.html.csp 13 May 2013 Three teens were arrested for torching a LDS chapel in Magna, Utah. Damage has been estimated at $500,000. No motives were given for the arson. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56302217-78/crews-fire-magna-chapel.html.csp 28 May 2013 Mormon and Catholic churches were threatened by a self-proclaimed "jihadist" in Fort Collins, Colorado. According to KDVR.com's web site: “Specific threats” were made against both Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Catholic church, Sgt. Paul Wood said. The suspect, a white male in his early 30s with brown hair and green eyes, has had previous run-ins with police, including one incident in which he claimed to be an arch angel from the Bible. The man has been known to wear t-shirts around his face to hide his appearance, police said. He has also been seen driving a white Honda coupe spray painted with anti-government and anti-religion slogans. Police asked anyone who sees the suspect to contact law enforcement. http://kdvr.com/2013/07/28/fort-collins-mormon-catholic-churches-on-guard-after-threats/ Coincidentally, the groundbreaking for the Fort Collins temple is scheduled for August 24th. The temple has been opposed by anti-Mormons in the area. See the following link for details. http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20130727/BUSINESS/307250037/Fort-Collins-LDS-temple-break-ground-Aug-24 19 Aug 2013 A Bozeman, Montana LDS meetinghouse was vandalized. The suspect(s) broke a window, bypassing a locked door, and spray-painted the word "sheep" throughout the interior of the building. Authorities say that there may be a link to vandalism of nearby Baptist and Catholic churches in the area a month ago. http://www.kpax.com/news/mormon-church-in-bozeman-vandalized/#_ 7 Nov 2013 Three Chubbock, Idaho LDS meetinghouses were vandalized with anti-Mormon epithets. Police are investigating the incident, which is similar to another instance of vandalism several months ago. http://www.kpvi.com/content/news/local/story/Police-Vandalism-Technically-a-Hate-Crime-Still/FFZIy63vP0OOx7zuNICZqQ.cspx 25 Feb 2014 Police arrested two men and charged them with burglarizing a Mormon meetinghouse in Schoharie, New York on 1/27/2014. One suspect wore a devil mask to hide his identity during the crime. http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Troopers-Man-wears-devil-mask-damages-Mormon-5265240.php Next???

Not that there was a lot of detail on the specifics...but if a man had my daughter as a hostage with a gun to her head I'm not sure I'd just start shooting. We'll presume that the situation somehow allowed for an opening where the daughter was not in the line of fire at the time.

Perhaps I misunderstood. Since the context of the discussion seemed to be a work-around thing to get away with faking a child's blessing I read it that way. I think you and I agree here.

Admittedly, I probably did a poor job of explaining the two attitudes I wanted to convey. Attitude A was the "go jump in the lake, I'm blessing my child anyway" attitude. Attitude B was supposed to represent the humble priesthood holder seeking to provide whatever blessing of comfort that would help an infant or its parents. Elder Christofferson addressed this issue towards the end of his interview and seemed to suggest that other blessings (other than the official "name and a blessing of a child") would be appropriate and encouraged.

For those people who seek to know how it will affect them... If you are looking on the internet you are looking in the wrong place. The internet is full of people who think they know and they are fully willing to share. And with any group on the internet there will be a small group that say stuff you feel is hateful/shameful wrong. You can't expect the internet to change its nature. If you truly want to know how the church will respond. Look to you leaders instead. Your local bishop/stake president will be the one in charge of initiating any kinds of church discipline per the handbook changes. They will be the ones who, hearts and minds, and understandings you need to know to gain the knowledge you seek. They are the ones would can let you truly know if you have something to be worried about or if you can rest easy... No one else in the entirety of the internet can give you that

I have one last thing to say and then I am out of here. Once again, we have people condemning others by trotting out their hypocritical cries of "You're judging others". They don't want others - including Heavenly Father's chosen prophets and leaders - saying anything that conflicts with their limited and self-focused viewpoint. In today's world especially, it is never about anyone or anything else, it's always about me, me, me. And they also are judging our prophet and apostles and,yes, Heavenly Father himself. They don't like what they hear so the immediate reaction is endless criticism and pronouncements that Heavenly Father got it all wrong and that we smug and superior mortal beings know better than him. And I remain frustrated and baffled by the practice of church members who castigate other members for "judging" anyone outside the church but then never hesitate themselves for even an instant to judge those inside the church. I've never seen the likes of it anywhere else and it's just as off-putting now as when I was investigating the church. You will embrace anyone living life at distinct odds with the gospel but won't extend the same kindness to fellow members of the church. As for this policy - I am trusting Heavenly Father on it and not the murmurings of the discontented.

Thanks, Pam, for posting the video. It was very helpful.

Food storage? Bah....I don't even have guns.

I regret getting into a Facebook conversation on the topic. I felt I was focused and fair, just wanting to ask questions about different perspectives. Won't make that mistake again. Apparently I'm just one of those evil Mormons.

Thank You Mr Shorty!! And the answer would be B. This is the kind of situation I'm trying to describe. Some on the internet are calling this policy addition/clarification an outrage and a travesty and pure bigotry, etc,etc, etc and will have their memberships renounced over this. An over reaction? Yeppers. My plea to them is to calm down first of all. Same to those here on this forum who are leaning the other direction over my statements about blessing these children. Before reacting, take a little time to make sure you understand what is being said rather than assuming you do. If you don't understand, ask more questions. I'm NOT rebel - never have been. So the knee-jerk reaction to the policy I've seen by gays lesbians and their pals is that the Church is denying all blessings to children, keeping them from being saved, and essentially damning them eternally because of the choices (Yay they are finally admitting they've made choices- lifestyle choices which is what we've meant all along) their parents made. Within the church we're scratching our heads and thinking...how did you come up with that assumption? It would be nice to see a little level-headedness. I actually get the impression they revel in this kind of thing. Oh how they love to bash our leaders! another Big Sigh from me.

I think it would have more meaning than that, wouldn't it? Maybe it depends on the attitude: a) "The Bishop can't give me permission to give my grandchild a name and a blessing, but I'll show him and the Church and do it anyway". The attitude is more about rebellion and showing the Church that you are bigger than it is. b) "The Bishop can't give me permission to give my grandchild a name and a blessing. Even though it will not be recorded, I can give my grandchild a priesthood blessing (of the regular kind) that will have meaning for me, the parents, and the child (even if the child is barely even aware that something is happening)." The attitude is williing to accept the Church's authority to restrict certain ordinances, while still acknowledging the proper ways that priesthood can be used to serve in this situation.

Lagarthaaz, how would you have reacted as a pre-teen or teenager, if your church consistently told you--not only that your mother was sinning--but that your mother couldn't repent, and you could never be part of an eternal family with her, unless she ditched your stepmother? Quite simply, the unwed parents' relationship is not calculated to preclude (or at least inhibit) future repentance. A gay wedding, is--the gay couple cannot repent except through divorce, which is its own set of trauma for the children involved.

Your kids who were blessed at home got permission to be Named and Blessed. That permission made it a recordable church ordinance (Assuming of course that was the way you did it) Per the handbook permission is not granted, the blessing is not recorded. A priesthood holder can of course still bless a baby... But calling that a Name and a Blessing is like calling a prayer over bread and water the Sacrament

Then Don't call it Naming and Blessing of a Child... Which is a church controlled ordinance.. Instead recognize what it is... simply a priesthood blessing

I can't imagine that church authority would object to a priesthood holder giving the child a name and blessing if the parents desired it. It just won't go on the official records of the church. The child won't have a membership number. Really who is going to stop a righteous grandfather from giving his newborn grandchild a blessing?

I don't have a problem with the policy. It is not any more exclusionary than restricting someone from joining based on any of the other disqualifiers we have. In many ways it is in the best interest of the child to have them wait until they are out of the house to make those kinds of decisions. Families break apart over religion all the time, and they aren't even gay. Why put more wedges into a potentially otherwise stable household? When the child is an adult they can choose their path with out the 24/7 influence of their "parents". Not only that but we wouldn't consciously baptize someone with a predisposed agenda would we? Or baptize someone whose parents would try to influence/butt in now that their child is a member, and they feel like they have a say in things. This policy probably avoids more legal problems than anything.....

The argument was made previously that we have no problem baptizing people whose parents are unmarried and live together (not same sex). No exclusion there, we also bless babies of unrepentant cohabitants.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/288685756/Changes-to-LDS-Handbook-1-Document-2-Revised-11-3-15-28003-29 Changes to LDS Handbook 1 Document 2 Revised 11-3-15

I checked this morning for the update online via LDS.org, it's true here it is: 16.13 Children of a Parent Living in a Same-Gender RelationshipA natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may not receive a name and a blessing. A natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may be baptized and confirmed, ordained, or recommended for missionary service only as follows: A mission president or a stake president may request approval from the Office of the First Presidency to baptize and confirm, ordain, or recommend missionary service for a child of a parent who has lived or is living in a same-gender relationship when he is satisfied by personal interviews that both of the following requirements are met: 1. The child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the Church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage. 2. The child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage.

Was it punishment toward individual members of African decent who could not hold the priesthood? No it was not. You can debate for a very long time what it was, but to say it was a punishment (even if it might feel like it) is to ignore a very simple gospel truth. One is not held responsible for things they can not do. If a person desires baptism and there is no priesthood holder around to perform it the the failure to be baptized is not on that individual. Same here if a child of a couple living in a homosexual relationship. They can't. They of course are affected by the actions of their parents(we all are), but they are not accountable for it. They are accountable only for their actions and desires

Not me. No clue. Carborendum, Ffenix, do you guys have any idea?

Honestly, I just say "yes" and pretty much leave it at that. If the asker has an agenda, I won't talk him out of it, and at this point I don't really care to try any more.

TFP = Al Gore. My world lies about me in shattered ruins.

Here's a typical internet misinterpretation: Wow...Did beefche really just say that without The Folk Prophet there would be no internet?

There would be no internet at all.....

Oh boy...if staying on topic was a site rule, I would have been banned so many times.

you guys are starting to get off topic here. you know, just a touch

Can my sock puppet have a sock puppet? If so, can I be my sock puppet's sock puppet?

Heaven—it’s the place God sends good people to, when they die, right? According to a 2014 CBS News poll 82% of those who believe in heaven and hell expect to go to heaven when they die. Frankly, if people knew what heaven really was, some might not even want to go. Others would be even more eager. Why? It’s God’s house! Jesus says, “My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?” Think of it! God loves us so much that he’s inviting us to live with him—forever! Amazingly, it took God six days to create this world, but Jesus has been working on our new home for 2,000 years! Also, God described the newly created earth as “good,” but the new heaven is said to be prepared like a bride for her groom! In this kingdom, all sin is gone—including our past failures. No one will look at us, because of what we’ve done! No judgment! No shame! Only love, and God’s eternal presence. Finally, all pain, sorrow, loneliness, and separation from God will be gone. No more temptation to sin, no more doubting and second-guessing ourselves. Instead, our lives will be full of purpose and meaning, as we commune, and even rule with God. So, why will some not want to be there? It’s God house, and He is everywhere. Those determined to oppose God, resist him, and reject him will find themselves much more at home in that realm that is forever separated from God. ​

All I can say about the first post is that it's quite the combination of two styles of such posts one sees on forums such as this - the standard I'm-perfect-so-everything-is-everbody-else's fault post along with here-are-all-the-things-wrong-with-Mormons post. Sort of a two-for-one deal.