Leaderboard

Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/07/17 in all areas

  1. Q1. Why did Nephi have to kill Laban? God could have disposed of Laban at the hands of an enemy or through an accident or illness. Why was Nephi required to kill him? This is an interesting question that brings back to my remembrance Israel's deliverance from Pharoah through Moses. Why did the first born have to die due to Pharaoh's hardened heart? Pharaoh could have been convinced by some other means, right? Pharaoh could have been easily removed by an angel (think of Balaam) or some sickness or by some accident, and another ruler could have been more easily convinced regarding the release of the children of Israel. Nephi did not have to kill Laban. I believe that is important to remember. It wasn't until after Laban's decisions that killing Laban resulted in a commandment. @person0 highlighted some possible outcomes if Laban wasn't the owner of the plates and had died by some other means. As @skalenfehl mentioned, through more than one witness Nephi received the honor of "ruler" as given by the Lord, which Laman & Lemuel hardened their heart believing he sought leadership over them not recognizing their rebellion, like Laban, lost them their reward. The Lord gave multiple opportunities for Laman to become ruler and leader, but he chose otherwise and was more concerned with saving his life, than loosing it. I am reminded of a talk I once heard that induced the same question in reference to Abraham and Isaac. Why was Abraham commanded to sacrifice Isaac? The Jewish minister responded with these words, "Abraham needed to know something about Abraham." Nephi needed to know something about Nephi. I am fond of the answer given by the Jewish minister (Rabbi, if I am remembering the tape recording correctly I listened to). Q2. To prove his loyalty to God? Loyalty was already being proven when Nephi prayed to know the words of his father were true. The determination of receiving the plates, and the killing of Laban were testimonies, witnesses, that Nephi was honest when he said, "The Lord giveth no commandment save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." The trial of faith, witnessed received. The moment Nephi was commanded to kill Laban, yes, loyalty and faithfulness were once again being proven. As @zil mentioned (Abraham 3:25) Q3. As a transformative experience for Nephi? To prove to Nephi that he was tough enough to handle more difficult tasks? I don't know, but this question bring the words of Paul to my heart and mind, Romans 5: 1-5 Q4. To symbolically indicate to Nephi that he was now living under a different, tougher set of rules than previously? I don't believe so, the rules haven't changed and these rules still remain for you and I. To whom much is given much is required, and Nephi was required much, and received much. Q5. To under score to Nephi that he could not return to Jerusalem? No, Nephi already knew he could not return for he received witness from the Lord that Jerusalem was wicked and that they would be destroyed. Nephi was already of one heart and one mind, with his father, in traveling to the promised land. Q6. To cause Nephi to accept a life of close obedience God? There is truth to this question. Isn't this what we are all striving to do, or the idea of becoming close to God means having a mind and heart like him, which can only be accomplished through close, exact, obedience to God. Romans 5: 1-5 seems to follow suit with this question, and Abraham 3:25. Q7. Do any of the above seem to fit the case? DId I miss anything? They all fit the case, and as with most gospel experiences and stories this leaves us with more questions Q8. Sometimes I wonder what is going on. A number of very faithful saints in my ward are undergoing extreme trials and I wonder what is the point of testing people who have been so faithful for decades. WHy? Half, if not more, of what we experience would not occur if the sons and daughters of God had been obeying God's commandments. God is fair. Humans are not, even temple covenant members who have covenanted with the Lord. I think it human to wonder what is going on (I know I do). I think it godly to move forward in faith when answers do not come, and when "what appears" to be very unfair doesn't change. Some members of the Church seem to be handed everything in this life, with very little struggle, while others fight just to survive. Outside of the Church we see similar experiences. Some are handed everything. Some merely survive. Some will say there success is a direct result of, "I work hard," while not meaning to but the statement implies for those that are not success, "they don't work hard." The scriptures carry statements of "favor" and "riches" and how God gives this to his sons and daughters. Even Satan recognized the hand of the Lord with Job, and yet we see also a different favor withe Joseph in Egypt. Joseph was favored of the Lord and his father. Yet, he was surely given a bitter taste of life, and then eventually became one of the greatest rulers during that time. Note, becoming a slave, and being thrown into prison for something you did not do, and the scriptures testify Joseph was favored of God. Joseph was also obedient to God in all these trials. We have temple covenant members causing these great trials for other members. I remember the story of @Dark_Jedi and what he experienced, and I hope he is doing well. This though is one aspect of life that burns me. One day we will see with spiritual eyes. I look forward to that time, but right now, it creates more questions.
    4 points
  2. I perceive that while most responses thus far do provide an applicable answer, they might not address what you are actually seeking to know. Here is my perspective on the matter: The reality is that, yes, as you posited, God 'could' have disposed of Laban some other way. However, there is an important principle at play: God works within the bounds of the agency of man. While He often influences men, sometimes even in very direct or extreme ways, such as with Paul, Alma the younger, etc, whenever possible, He will allow men, using their agency, to fulfill His purposes for Him. God knew where Laban would be, why he would be there, where Zoram would be, what their states of mind would be, etc, etc, etc. With that knowledge, He could guide Nephi by the Spirit to where Laban would be, have him kill Laban, impersonate Laban to coerce Zoram who would lead him directly to the plates, and then return safely back to his brothers. Not only did this accomplish the goals the Lord had in mind, it also enabled the salvation of Zoram (who would likely not have received this opportunity any other way), who was a friend to Nephi from that time forward. Additionally, in regard to the killing of Laban, not only are the words the Spirit spoke to Nephi applicable, as well as what @zil pointed out in her reference to Abraham 3:25, but it is also important to realize that mortality is relatively insignificant to the Lord, who has a truly eternal perspective. Regardless of the possibly many lives impacted, murder is wrong mostly because it removes an individuals opportunity to repent. God, however, has a perfect plan that accounts to provide every one of His children the opportunity to repent. In the end, those who would have received the gospel in this life may inherit every blessing as those of us who do. It is clear that not only Laban, but also his forefathers were the keepers of the plates. He would have had the opportunity to read them, study them, and have the knowledge of the truth. Since Zoram perceived it as normal for Laban to present the plates to the elders, it is apparent that he may have done so on occasion. Regardless, however, the Lord knows and knew Laban's heart. Laban was living a life of wickedness, it is highly doubtful that the Lord would end his life if he knew he would repent and become righteous. Was Laban not aware of the many prophets, including Lehi, who had prophesied? Even so, as @skalenfehl pointed out, Jerusalem was on the brink of destruction and captivity, and Laban's days were likely numbered anyway. If God had disposed of Laban via different means, how much more difficult might it have been for Nephi to procure the plates? Would they have been in the same location? Would Nephi still have been able to successfully impersonate Laban? Would the Lord just as easily have been able to allow for the freedom and salvation of Zoram? My assumption is that while obviously all things are possible to God, such an interference, would have required additional interference to play out as needed. There are many additional historical occurrences of God allowing men (both righteous and wicked) to use agency to bring about his purposes. Some examples include Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit to induce the fall, the many many times the Israelites and Nephites were captive to incite them to the remembrance of the Lord, and even the Crucifixion of his own Son by His children acting in ignorance and wickedness. In regard to your other questions there was no need to prove Nephi's loyalty, it is clear that once he had a sufficient withness of the Spirit, he acted swiftly and decisively. It is unlikely that any transformation occurred for Nephi aside from the strengthening of his testimony, because once he knew of a surety that the direction to kill Laban came from the Lord, he would never at any point in his life have reason to look back on his decision with remorse or regret. The rules had not changed for Nephi, only the Lord can command to kill with a perfect knowledge of the repercussions, Nephi's witness of the Spirit would also lead him to know that should such action be required again, he would be able to recognize whether it were of God or not. It was obvious from Nephi's previous experiences that he knew he could not return to Jerusalem, this event/action would not have been related. Nephi was being tested, but only in the same way each of us are tested in our trials and through our spiritual experiences and personal revelations. Notice that Nephi's initial reservation was not that it was a terrible thing to take Laban's life, but that he had never taken a life previously; he was likely shocked that he himself would be commanded to do such a thing, which normally is a grave sin, but might not have been as shocked that Lord would use this method to achieve his purposes. So now we come full circle and can piece together these ideas to reasonably conclude, that God, using and allowing for the agency of man, and acting in use of his foreknowledge of individuals and events, called one of His children to take a seemingly very serious action that would ultimately be of little significance in the eternal perspective, but which would enable blessings and opportunities of extreme significance to His great plan. Thus He declared, "It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief."
    4 points
  3. As to the value of the records that Nephi obtained by killing Laban, and the purposes for which they were used see Alma 37: 3 - 10, particularly verse 9 3 And these plates of brass, which contain these engravings, which have the records of the holy scriptures upon them, which have the genealogy of our forefathers, even from the beginning— 4 Behold, it has been prophesied by our fathers, that they should be kept and handed down from one generation to another, and be kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord until they should go forth unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, that they shall know of the mysteries contained thereon. 5 And now behold, if they are kept they must retain their brightness; yea, and they will retain their brightness; yea, and also shall all the plates which do contain that which is holy writ. 6 Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise. 7 And the Lord God doth work by means to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls. 8 And now, it has hitherto been wisdom in God that these things should be preserved; for behold, they have enlarged the memory of this people, yea, and convinced many of the error of their ways, and brought them to the knowledge of their God unto the salvation of their souls. 9 Yea, I say unto you, were it not for these things that these records do contain, which are on these plates, Ammon and his brethren could not have convinced so many thousands of the Lamanites of the incorrect tradition of their fathers; yea, these records and their words brought them unto repentance; that is, they brought them to the knowledge of the Lord their God, and to rejoice in Jesus Christ their Redeemer. 10 And who knoweth but what they will be the means of bringing many thousands of them, yea, and also many thousands of our stiffnecked brethren, the Nephites, who are now hardening their hearts in sin and iniquities, to the knowledge of their Redeemer?
    3 points
  4. The short answer is because the the Lord said to do so. The more lengthy answer was because the Lord required Nephi and his posterity to have the brass plates to preserve their knowledge of the Lord so that they didn't dwindle in unbelief. This term is very significant. Anyway, everyone's life at Jerusalem, including Laban's was forfeit. They were about to be destroyed by Babylon. Laban was an evil fruit good for nothing but to be cast into the fire. Furthermore, Laban had cast out Nephi and his brothers three times, having sent his servants to slay them unjustly while robbing the four brothers of their family inheritance. Laban had broken the laws of God and of the land. Nephi was not only commanded by the Lord slay Laban, but was justified. Had Nephi declined to do so, one of the consequences might be that Laban would have sent his armies to find Nephi and his family after having taken the record anyway, ending Lehi's journey to the promised land. Another scenario is Laban losing his life to the Babylonian armies when they came to destroy Jerusalem. The bottom line is Laban's life was forfeited. Nephi, having inherited the tokens of kingship (genealogy/brass plates, sword, Liahona, Laban's clothes), he became the ruler and teacher of his family just as the Lord had prophesied. Had Laban been righteous, he would have been the rightful heir to that role, being the sole guardian of the record of Joseph.
    3 points
  5. My avatar resembles me somewhat. I have brown eyes and sometimes my nose is pink (when I'm sick or cry). And since I'm Mormon, I have the horns (but I cover them with my hair).
    3 points
  6. My avatar looks very much like me, in the sense that she is bilaterally symmetrical with the usual collection of eyes, eyebrows, nose, mouth, chin, etc. Using her as a guide, you could probably pick me right out of a lineup, assuming the lineup consisted of myself and various non-human creatures.
    3 points
  7. I think your friends (and all of us), like Nephi, often struggle while being constrained by the Spirit because it is about entering new and frightening territory. As Nephi said, "Never at any time have I [been asked to do something so against the grain]. And I shrunk and would that I might not [do something so against the grain]." I think as you pointed out, the Lord's reasons for constraining us to do His will are as important as His reasons for doing the deed in the first place. I think it is telling that He would trust someone enough to constrain him. I think "constrain" does not mean to force by compulsion, but to put significant pressure on someone who is typically not so resistant to His voice. God's particular reasons a for getting things done a certain way (in this instance, preserving a nation's faith) are not always evident, but I'm sure Nephi was happy he obeyed in the end, which is consistent with his character. He seemed satisfied with the Lord's simple explanation.
    2 points
  8. Thank you very much everyone ! I need to reread these response several times and ponder. Thank you also for your straightforward replies. I find the 'trials' thing very difficult to understand. i want to be moved to a more remedial life experience track! Where is lds lite?
    2 points
  9. First, I don't know that it's our business to understand why the Lord commanded the death of Laban in this way. Second, if there is understanding to be had, we must first remember / recognize things like our eternal nature, that God is omniscient and just, that Laban was deserving of death under the law of the place and time, etc. (In other words, we have to get past our modernism and discomfort with someone getting their head chopped off / stop viewing that act as universally unacceptable.) Third, I think at least one answer to your questions about Nephi killing Laban and about faithful members enduring trials can be found in Abraham 3:25: The difficult part is that eventually, whatever it takes, all those who intend to enter the celestial kingdom will have to demonstrate that they are willing to obey all God's commands, no matter what - and it's that "no matter what" that the trials teach us. IMO, your question is essentially the same as the age-old "Why does God allow suffering?" question.
    2 points
  10. I switched photos for honesty's sake.
    2 points
  11. Romans 13 tells us that to rebel against law enforcement is to oppose what God establishes. Yet, we are in a season when police and correctional workers get abundant scorn and precious little appreciation. Sunday begins Correctional Workers Week. I am humbled and honored to serve with my brothers and sisters. Thank someone this week who serves in this difficult, but important calling.
    1 point
  12. anatess2

    Dear Senator McCain

    McCain: "President Duterte is a dictator." McCain, you have become nothing more than an old guy who has cashed in your POW chip decades beyond its value. Do the world a favor. Retire and go home. You don't even know what dictator means anymore.
    1 point
  13. The severity of the challenge or trial.
    1 point
  14. To keep a record of both the gospel, law, and lineage for his descendants. Probably a bit of what you said as well. God has to tell nephi to do it more than once, at how reluctant nephi is to take another life, and then proceeds to tell him why. Yes it is also test, one that prepares nephi for the journey ahead.
    1 point
  15. If you look really carefully at my avatar, there's a guy in the boat towards the stern (towards the top). That guy . . . . . . is not me.
    1 point
  16. Doesn't fully answer it, but it helped me with the reconciliation of the whole thing. Take a look at the possible symbolism of the whole story. Nephi = Christ Laban = Man's Fallen State Zoram = Us Nephi kills Laban and frees Zoram. OR Christ kills the Fallen Man inside of us and frees us. Full MormonHub Article: https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/gospel-doctrine/nephi-and-laban/ other aspects to maybe look at: Sword- Authority Did Nephi hesitate because he thought it went against commandments or because he was nervous? Did Nephi understand something we don't? The spirit had to deliberately tell Nephi to do this and didn't leave it up to him. It shows that this was an acception to the commandment "thou shalt not kill". (Just a thought... may not be doctrinal). ALSO: God doesn't give trials to help us be faithful, he gives us trials to help us grow. We will be progressing forever and it will never end. Those who feel they are faithful enough and don't need trials anymore will likely receive trials to humble them. I also dont believe we are st liberty to suggest others don't need trials. That is suggesting that we know more or maybe are more loving than Heavenly Father. I for one am greatful for my financial struggles. If I were wealthy, I would be leaning in my wealth to get me through school, my upcoming wedding and other financial responsibilities. But instead, my fiancé and I are constantly telling ourselves "God will provide a way". Every trial is another opportunity to take a long stride toward Heavenly Father
    1 point
  17. I believe God didn't need Nephi to prove himself to God. God knows who we are and what we are capable of. But I believe that Nephi needed to prove to *himself* that he was so committed to God's path that he would do anything and everything necessary to get to the Promised Land with the Brass Plates.
    1 point
  18. I doubt that. Even for Nephi, it was a trial, and he lived in a world where this could be far more easily justified. I doubt he walked away from it and never thought of it again. The trial would be different for each person, but anyone for whom it is not a trial is a true sociopath. From what you've said before, I can understand these feelings. I know with absolute certainty they are not unique to you (or me, or anyone else). Sometimes trials are a simple consequence of natural phenomena and the agency of others (e.g. there aren't a lot of active members in your area so the burden on those who are active is increased - simple math). Other times, the Lord allows us to endure trials rather than relieve our suffering (I think of sickness especially here) because the trial will teach us more quickly than any other method. Part of me thinks one way to avoid trials is to learn the lessons without them; another part of me thinks that if we manage that, the trials will still come and teach us whatever the next lesson is. At the end of the day, the one thing I'm certain of is that life is better when we do (as well as we are able) what the Lord asks us to do. PS: It's possible that "LDS lite" is also a trial, just of a different kind.
    1 point
  19. Well in regards to the trials aspect, I read a thing on facebook once where a man was walking with and talking to heavenly father and asking why He wasnt there for him during crucial moments in his life. He listed different situations like his car breaking down when he needed to get to a job interview. And the Lord responded by saying something along the lines of something dangerous being on the road ahead of him at that time; his car breaking down although seen from his human perspective was harsh and unfair actually saved him from greater danger. Same with the job interview being missed that there was a better opportunity in store for him. Despite being a "facebook post" i truly believe in Heavenly father having our best interests in mind even if we sometimes feel like things are hurtful or harmful to us. In this way being children of God could not be more apt because of our immaturity in relation to him, it reminds me sometimes of when I was little and how devastating it was to not get candy at the checkout when i wanted it. My perspective back then was of frustration at my helplessness and not understanding why my parents would not want my happiness in regards to a treat i loved, that they designed to keep it from me out of a lack of care for me. But now I see the wisdom of a lot of their decisions that were almost always in my best interest from their capabilities.
    1 point
  20. Excellent post! Some of my students moved into law enforcement!
    1 point
  21. I'm not sure if we need anything further than the reasons Nephi has already given: 11 And the Spirit said unto me again: (1) Behold the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands. Yea, and I also knew that (2) he had sought to take away mine own life; yea, and (3) he would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord; and (4) he also had taken away our property. 12 And it came to pass that (5) the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands; 13 Behold the (6) Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. (7) It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief. 14 And now, when I, Nephi, had heard these words, I remembered the words of the Lord which he spake unto me in the wilderness, saying that: Inasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments, they shall prosper in the land of promise. 15 Yea, and I also thought that (8) they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law. 16 And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass. 17 And again, I knew that the Lord had delivered Laban into my hands for this cause—that I might obtain the records according to his commandments. 18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword. Its not hard to quickly see 8 good reasons why it was necessary to obtain the plates. Once it becomes clear that the death of Laban is necessary in order to obtain the plates, then it becomes a question of what is the most useful manner in which this death can be brought about. I'm guessing that a simple accident was not the most useful manner, and that the manner of death most likely to produce the kind of benefits and consequences that were most needed at the time was for Nephi to kill Laban. I'm also not sure how much of a substantive difference there is between this divinely ordered death, and the many many other divinely ordered deaths we read of in the scriptures. As Job said : "the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." The Lord gave Laban his life, and it was the Lord's to take. I believe it was the will of the Lord that Laban should die, and we are blessed when the Lord gives us an opportunity to carry out His will even when it might be unpleasant to do so.
    1 point
  22. Fether

    Garments and Fashion

    3 thoughts: Just want to point out that most white shirts men wear to church are pretty see through and the "celestial smile" is quite apparent. Also, I served my mission in the south and the south and the church never seemed to worry about us missionaries biking around 10 hours a day in the middle of summer's humid heat. No new dress standard was made for us suffering in the heat I'm a guy and our garment sleeves go down a little further. I found that One of my all time favorite shirts was like a half Inch too small at the sleeve and would sometimes stuff my garment sleeve up behind my shirt sleeve. I decided against that and ended up throwing my favorite shirt away . But I felt it was the right thing to do. Surprisingly, I'm just as happy now as I was then "Sacrifice brings forthe blessings of heaven"
    1 point
  23. The Church offices celebrated Star Wars Day with Star Wars-themed food, trash cans, and even a stormtrooper at the Church Office Building cafeteria on Thursday, May 4. Some of the food offerings included Admiral Tarkin's Tea Sandwiches, Han's Burgers, Seven Leia Dip, Tuskan Raider Taters, Bantha Strips, Darth Vader Sabers, and Obi Wan Kabobies. The Church Office Building cafeteria offered "Darth Maul Delights" and "Admiral Tarkin's Tea Sandwiches" on Star Wars Day, Thursday, May 4, 2017. The Church Office Building cafeteria offered Star Wars-themed food, including "Dagobah Salad," on Star Wars Day, Thursday, May 4, 2017. May the Fourth has been recognized as Star Wars Day because of its similarity to a famous Star Wars quote ("May the force be with you"). A C3PO-decorated trash can was just one way Church Office Building employees celebrated Star Wars Day. View the full article
    1 point
  24. I love you too very much for your help and help you with your boy and your family and friends with you and I know you are with your sweet new grandson. Wow, that makes me sound so nice! I need to live up to my phone keyboard's high expectations of me.
    1 point
  25. In my mind, this verse provides additional insight to note that Lehi was likely not yet called as a prophet prior to the revelatory experiences detailed in chapter one. This would also give further credence to the idea that if Lehi was just recently called, his family, including his wife, would not yet all have had the personal revelation to know that his calling and actions have been true. Nephi and Sam had already received their witness; Laman and Lemuel continually rejected the opportunity to receive theirs; now, finally, Sariah was pushed to the trial of her faith, and from my perspective she mostly failed. The fact that Sariah complained and did not initially endure her trial faithfully is important for our profit and learning. We see in verses 4-6 that Lehi comforted Sariah. He did this by sharing his own testimony of his experiences and of the things the Lord had called their family to do. When we experience trials, the Lord does not want us to go it alone. He stands ready to comfort us and bless us with His Spirit, but also often places spouses, family, friends and others who can help comfort us if we allow them to do so. Sariah's trial is scriptural evidence that even the faithful fall and rise again. She was the wife of a prophet was she not? However, after the trial of her faith, she received her witness, and her experience was powerful enough for her to proclaim "Now I Know of a surety. . ." Thomas, even an Apostle of the Lord, faltered in a similar capacity and would not even believe the witness of his brethren, but still received the mercy of the Lord further enabling him to go on to fulfill his calling. In His mercy, even when we falter, the Lord will still provide means to strengthen us and enable us to receive of Him and to have exceeding joy, as did Sariah and the whole family upon the return of Nephi and his brothers. No matter our experiences, murmurings and misgivings, we can find comfort, and in the end, in the Lords time, receive our own witness for each trial we are called to bear. Prior to reading directly from the plates, it appears Lehi had little knowledge of its contents. The opportunity to read scripture in such a fashion was a new experience for this family, and they devoured the words within excitedly. Imagine what knowledge we could have if we sought to read the the scriptures as much as we fight over who's turn it is with the remote, or the car, or the newest Harry Potter book, or whatever it is that calls to us so strongly. If today the First Presidency announced a new book of scripture, who among us would not jump at the chance to delve into its pages? Yet somehow we often fail to search, ponder and pray on the words of the prophets we have today. Hopefully we each see for ourselves that they are 'of great worth unto us' and teach our children to do the same.
    1 point
  26. Blueskye2

    Garments and Fashion

    Or these. https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rose-Connected-Sleeves-Jacette/dp/B015LYLNI2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1494084213&sr=8-3&keywords=Tattoo+sleeves+shoulder ?
    1 point
  27. Star Wars! I'm with @NeuroTypical, stormtroopers can't hit anything.
    1 point
  28. This is not technically a picture of me: This, however, is absolutely a picture of me:
    1 point
  29. I know LostBoy is gone, but I have to say I second much of what he has said. It behooves us all to respect our fellow man, and to do our best to be respectful to each other Mormon Culture, let's remember, is not the Doctrine - and we would be better off if we cast Mormon Culture aside so we could live the Doctrine more fully. How ironic is it that so many of the contributors to this thread condone a significant other leaving dishonestly with not a care in the world for repercussions of the other party, and yet when that same thing happens to LostBoy over the course of the thread, they cry foul to the girl who left him! If they were being consistent, they would applaud her, would they not? They would applaud her for not being an "object" or whatever garbage philosophy some have mingled incorrectly with the true religion. If nothing else, this thread has exposed the hypocrisy of Mormon Culture. Which ideal do you people believe? That there is virtue in leaving a significant other at the slightest provocation? That as long as you are not hurt, you may hurt a thousand in your path if it may even lead to the small hope of an eternal marriage? Or do you believe that it in fact is very wrong to not discuss things like adults, and work out problems to their proper conclusion together - whether that be to the extension or termination of their romantic relationship? It surprises me that there is more harshness, rudeness, and callousness on this thread than on many other sites. If this was Quora, many of your would be facing BNBR (Be Nice Be Respectful) violations. Not even the majority of sub-reddits have this level of antagonism - the type of attacking on this thread against LostBoy is uncalled for, especially as he confessed he was already losing faith in the membership of the church, and their dismissiveness of the feelings of others - and here you all are, ready to confirm that for him that it's true: they don't. It was as if a part of your own being was threatened that you had to lash out against him, and find fault with every word he said, not understanding that he comes from a different place. He comes from a much higher moral ground than most of you. He, in principle, in cognizant of the feelings of those around him, and in principle, does not wish to cause anyone unnecessary pain. The same cannot be said of you - especially the user with a raspberry blowing CareBear for the profile image, or the lightsaber wielding avatar user - I can't be bothered to look up her/his name, jumping down his throat and immediately assuming the worst about the man. How you see the world is a reflection of yourself. You first saw LostBoy as an "evil" person, with malicious intent. I wonder: what does that say about you? Perhaps you project yourself upon him, and your antagonism proves this to be true: you are a malicious person, Miss CareBear Lady. You, Dark Jedi, are an inciter of conflict and a desirer of discord. The two of you are not espousing the Doctrine, but rather spouting off based on pure hubris and self aggrandization. You will have your reward in the end. Those like you will have no part in the millennium, for those who have even a modicum of hatred within them, where you have mounds of, and loads of judgment within you, cannot live in a perfect world. Go join Lucifer, for he craves those like you in his ranks, and perhaps you will be more at home there anyway. If there is nothing more poisonous to the True Religion, nothing more toxic to the Mormon Doctrine, it is the Mormon Culture that has so pervaded the church, and it must be stamped out and desecrated in order for the Mormon Doctrine to function uninhibited, for the Culture is propagated by evil people, and the Doctrine by the good. The evidence being in this thread, if you wish to read it.
    1 point
  30. Fether

    Star Trek or Star Wars?

    StaR Wars
    1 point
  31. Whats even more frustrating though is when you have members who wont leave the church and go on and on in criticizing the church in one or more points.
    1 point
  32. We do have Kid Across Street.
    1 point
  33. That's quite an agenda you've got there. I'm glad you've found a way to make it work with your presidency meetings. A couple of things stuck out to me as I was reading your thoughts. Firstly, regarding meeting frequency. I'm obviously not familiar with your ward, but I would suggest that you be open to meeting more often than monthly. Nobody likes long meetings, but a 20-30 minute mid-month meeting could let all of you follow-up and touch bases on those agenda items. Might help with productivity. Partway into my time as EQ pres I had weekly meetings that I scheduled immediately preceding sacrament meeting, so we had a fixed end time. But things went much better all around when we had shorter, more frequent meetings. Just a thought. Second is regular PPIs. (Or home teaching interviews, or one-on-ones, or whatever you want to call them.) Your activity and home teaching levels make me think this would help. It's not a time to just check on home teaching, or to chastise, but it's an opportunity to get a sense of how they are personally, learn of challenges or sucesses, provide encouragement and training, and show love. *You can delegate some of these to your counselors. You have keys that give you that right.* Seek training from the bishop or your high councilor if you need to. Train your counselors if you need to. Maybe you already know all this and you can just ignore me. I just wish I'd had this pounded into my head a bit more when I started the calling. I can tell you're making a valiant effort with your service, keep it up!
    1 point
  34. The angel from the book of Revelation wore his man-bra (bro?) outside his garments:
    1 point
  35. It depends what you mean by "immoral". Is it immoral of me to: Take the last chocolate biscuit when I've already had five, and some people haven't had any? Remain seated on the train when there's an old lady right next to me standing? Not call my mother on her birthday (not because I've forgotten, but because I simply can't be bothered)? Leave toenail clippings on the bedroom carpet for my wife to clear up? Pull ugly faces and make rude gestures at BMW drivers, despite the fact that I know it gives my wife palpitations? Well yes and no. These aren't the sort of things you see on lists of "grave sins", but I still think they're still things Christians should at least try to avoid. (It's hard to imagine Jesus "flipping the bird" to a BMW driver, however obnoxious, and however badly he cut him up at the roundabout.) I do kind of agree though - getting engaged to someone you're not going to see for another 2 years is a recipe for disaster. (It's not even like the military where you get leave once in a while.) Anyone older than 25 would expect the "Dear John" sooner or later: but these are kids...they think their love-for-the-very-first-time will last for ever however long the separation. Experience, as Vort says, is a cruel teacher - but of course you learn. But bugs me most though is the way this couple flaunted their new relationship straight away. They didn't even leave a respectful few weeks gap. Was that immoral? Well again, yes and no. It certainly wasn't Christlike. And for the OP, who obviously cares about this young man, it had got to be distressing.
    1 point
  36. https://mormonhub.com/blog/buzz/buzzfeed-schooled-reactions-missionary-parody/ if you haven't taken a look, you should read. I feel like this is quite the anomaly! I felt the spirit so strongly while reading those comments
    1 point
  37. I did not watch the video, however, I will say that many people find supposed connections to concepts of salvation from sin, and saviors, and other aspects of Christianity. However, the connections they make based on pre-Christian era doctrines and concepts are actually all descended from apostatized truth. Remember that the gospel was taught in it's fullness to Adam, and he was baptized. From there, eventually it fell and was degenerated by various civilizations until even the Israelites were not sufficiently prepared to receive it. If the true principles of what is now known as Christianity existed from the beginning, and then were jumbled up through apostasy, some here, some there, then it would be expected that researchers could find evidence of these things. If an uninspired researcher finds pieces of information, are they going to conclude that Christianity must be true because its concepts go back so far, or will they assume it must be a made up mixture of other religious views that came before it? With that in mind it doesn't bother me in the slightest what the world thinks of the origins of Christianity.
    1 point
  38. Although I am drifting away from the OP topic per se, I would add that I can see how the modern-day emphasis on romance for it's own sake can actually make it harder in some cases for a young couple to make their marriage succeed.
    1 point
  39. 1 point
  40. Hmmm, I disagree with you about the beauty. What I've observed of forum communication is a lot of ugliness. The beauty of communication is rare by comparison. Communication doesn't happen the way you're treating me at the moment in spite of my request to you.
    1 point
  41. @The Folk Prophet I want to communicate with you, but you're going to fast for me to do the effort justice. How about if we make this more like a dialogue, and less like whack-a-mole.
    1 point
  42. Let's see if I understand you. Marriage is illegal. A group practices it, and abuses it. Yes, most reasonable people would agree that a group's practice of an illegal thing resulting in harm to people would serve as evidence that the illegal thing should remain illegal.
    1 point
  43. No, those same people certainly don't look at him as a warning against marriage generally. But that's because he didn't marry in a general way, isn't it? And although reporting of events can impact the way you and I (and thousands) think, we are capable of parsing for accurate understanding. It isn't unreasonable for an objective observer to look at the results of Jeff's implementation of polygamy in the name of God and conclude that polygamy is generally not a Godly practice--or at least a Godly practice often practiced in an unGodly way.
    1 point
  44. I can think of a very straightforward reason that people would have issues with polygamy. One need only consider Warren Jeffs.
    1 point
  45. Your wife's attitude is probably a good example. It seems like a positive application of what I understood @Vort to have said earlier (albeit modified to fit other situations). That is if it (meaning just about anything) bother's one, quit thinking about it. On the other hand, if everybody quit thinking about things that bother them, there would be a lot fewer books to read.
    1 point
  46. And to me your conclusion is a non sequitur in that just because you believe God reveals His will to (Mormon) prophets doesn't mean that everyone else believes it. It doesn't mean the system breaks down, as you put it. It means that billions of people believe differently than you believe.
    1 point
  47. As a male it may not be for me to say, but my own gut suggests to me that if God Himself told these women that polygamy was justified and righteous they would accept it. I believe that those who reject polygamy do so because in their hearts and minds they are rejecting men, not God.
    1 point
  48. Dear Little Linda's mom, Thanks for your note. I love having Little Linda as a student and I think she's a great kid. I understand your feelings and respect that you want to feed your daughter healthy foods. However, I'm her teacher, not her mother, and it would be both inappropriate and against school policy for me to bring her snacks. But feel free to send Little Linda to school with her snacks; she will be allowed to eat them at lunchtime and at other appropriate times during the day. If you want the school to provide food for Little Linda, the school lunch program is the way the school discharges that duty. My understanding is that the school lunches are nutritious and pleasant. If you have concerns about them, please feel free to discuss that with the administration. The principal can be reached at 987-654-3210, and by email at [email protected] Thanks, Little Linda's teacher
    1 point