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Drugs are spread in public schools. For this reason I'd like my children to spend less time there. We've had children attend public school for kindergarten and first grade but not after that. Homeschooling is our method of eduction. I fear that junior high is a horrible, horrible environment for my children to be avoided at all costs. It's not because of the education. It's because of the students. The amount of time spent in school is of little concern compared to other matters. Our school system is getting a bad rap. I didn't attend any special private school or have any special after school programs during high school. My normal public high school offered many advanced placement classes which I took full advantage of. I graduated high school in 1999 fully ready to attend BYU, which I did. The point here is that there is some really good education happening in public schools. Yes there are many problems. Yes the public schooling system fails on many accounts. But it's not all bad. My aunt has been teaching in public schools for decades. Her opinion is that the parents are primarily to blame. This I tend to agree with. The parents don't teach their children true principles. They don't teach the gospel. They don't emphasize education and learning in the home. I lived in South Korea. Those families value education much more than we Americans do. It's not the public schooling there that makes the education levels so high--it's the parents sending their children to tutoring and intensive after school programs. It's a cultural thing, not a public school thing. When liberals compare our public school system in favor of the Swedish (or was it Finland or Norway?) system, they might have a point but they're missing the main point entirely. The problem is that parents blame the public school system while at the same time relinquishing their stewardship over their children's education. If Ameican parents as a whole took full responsibility over their children's education (and I'm not just referring to a secular education) then our education as a whole would correspondingly improve.

@AGMom, I'm so sorry for your struggles. I agree with @eddified - forget fighting about anything. You cannot change another person, only yourself. And you can change yourself in ways that will bring you peace and happiness despite your husband's choices - which may be the best way to encourage him to return to the gospel. Specific thoughts: 1) Don't fight about scripture study, just do your own, and do it with your children as you decide is appropriate. If needed, do it while he's at work, or asleep, or whatever. But avoid making him feel excluded - make sure he knows you'd love to have him join you, but it's his choice and you won't complain if he chooses not to. 2) Same thing with prayer - you personally, and you and the children together. Also with church: just go to church and take the kids with you. Don't worry about whether he's going to come. If you think it appropriate, invite him. 3) Leave the room and take the children1 with you if he starts watching inappropriate media. If needed, put in headphones so you don't have to hear it. ( 1 I don't believe for a minute that any child is ever too young to be impacted by "inappropriate".) (If "inappropriate" is "pornographic", I would worry very much and seek counseling.) 4) Request home and visiting teachers who will come. Doesn't matter if your husband doesn't sit in when the home teachers come. 5) If you have a calling, do your best to serve in it. If you don't, let the bishop know you'd like to serve in some way. Right now, you need to focus on building your personal strength and testimony (put your own oxygen mask on first). Let the Lord worry about the rest right now. When we put the things of the Lord first, and become peacemakers at home, the Lord blesses us to endure and overcome trials. It won't be easy, it will probably take a long time, and a lot of effort, but I believe you will be blessed for it.

Seeing a Mormon apostle in real life is not an experience one easily forgets. Spending a weekend with one is downright mind blowing. That’s what I was asked to do earlier this year. I had been interning as a lowly BYU student with the Church’s Public Affairs Department in the Pacific Area, based in Auckland, New Zealand. An apostle (along with a few other General Authorities) was scheduled to make a trip to Tonga, and I was asked to be part of his entourage to cover the trip for Mormon Newsroom Pacific. Latter-day Saint temple in Nuku'alofa, Tonga. What an opportunity, right? Needless to say, I was excited. We’ve all read about prophets of God in the scriptures—we’ve heard them speak at General Conference, but I was going to have the opportunity to get a little peek at the behind-the-scenes action. The day-to-day stuff. I was going to see what happens after the meetings. I got a special glimpse at the life of an apostle, and I want to share some of... View the full article

Ditto to everything Zil said. What I say below is with the assumption that there is no abuse or mistreatment of yourself or the kids, he just isn't living church standards. I trust that before you got married, you prayed and felt that this was the right thing to do. God knew things would turn out like this when he gave you confirmation, and just because it hasn't turned out the way you want doesn't mean that you made a mistake. That is a dangerous and destructive thought. It may be that there is something God wants you to learn from this, or something he wants you to overcome. This may be him putting you through a refining fire to purify your soul. It may be that you are there to be his guide and example and help him make it back onto a gospel path. You may have even promised to do that for him in the pre-existance for all you know. Don't try to push him to do what you want him to do, instead talk with God about what He wants you to do. This might not make sense to you now, but your relationship with your husband is more important than if your husband is doing the right things or not. Honor and praise him for the good things he does, teach your children to respect him as the head of the home, do not withhold love and affection and intimacy because he isn't a faithful Mormon. Feeling nagged, pressured, judged, rejected, etc. will be a big barrier to him coming back. Feeling loved, accepted and respected will open his heart and make it easier for him to come back. No matter how unrealistic the idea of him coming back seems now, it is not hopeless. Pray for him, keep the door open but don't try to push him through it. You are not alone, you have the Bishop, his quorum and quorum presidency, your HTs Also, Elder Uchtdorf is not going to be the next prophet. The next President of the church will be the apostle who has been serving in the 12 the longest, and right now that is Elder Russel M. Nelson. Elder Oaks is next in line after him and there are 3 more after him before you get to Elder Uchtdorf. There is no way to know if he will ever be the President of the Church, but if so it will be a very long time in the future. I assume by 'political' he means what Elder Uchtdorf has said about refugees. He has not said anything about what government policy should be, he as only encouraged compassion and service towards those in need. I know a lot of people read more into that then they should in this political climate.

The first step in returning is having the desire to do so. You have that! And I believe it is the Spirit that is prompting you to come back. My advice is to continue to listen to that Spirit. Satan will try to deter you. Please don't listen to that other voice. You have a testimony. Apply what you know. You know that our Savior has atoned for our sins. Grasp on that. He knew you would come to this earth and make mistakes. We all do. That is why there is repentance and foregivess. Allow the atonement to work in your behalf. Hold onto that knowledge. Make an appointment and talk to your Bishop. It will be such a relief. Get this off your chest. He can help you to find the best way to overcome your addiction. Don't worry about being excommunicated. If that is what is needed to become whole and clean again, in my estimation it would be worth it. As for your wife, she may surprise you. Talk to her. Tell her how you feel. She may be very supportive of your desire to come back. Your desire for being more spiritual may awaken a desire in her as well. It may not, but you can never tell. Good luck. The Lord will bless you in your righteous desires.

I think you need some encouragement. You can learn to be the spiritual strength of the family. It's critical that you do, for the children. Don't fight to hold family scriptures, for example, just read them with the children once they get a little older, you can start with the children's illustrated scripture stories. They are available in the Gospel Library app. You CAN have a testimony of your own. Just start doing the important things. I know you can. Start small. God bless.

@Just_A_Guy, @Latter-Day Marriage, there is also the fact that it's a gift to your children. It's not really a factor in this context, it's a much bigger factor in the context of staying chaste after marriage. Let's see what unchastity after marriage can do , according to the Book of Mormon: (from Jacob 2). "Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you"

How dare you, madam. How DARE you, I say!

My rant was mostly a joke -- truth in jest, as they say. But you have obviously misconstrued my meaning. I said nothing about dialects, nor disputed the Chomskian view you uphold. (Though Sister Vort would dispute the point, and would more than hold her own, I guarantee. ) Rather, I pointed out a blatant misuse of a symbol. Arguing against my point is like saying that someone who uses periods in the middle of his sentence or who starts each sentence with a comma and an exclamation point is right to do so, because, you know, he's a native speaker and therefore can do no wrong. It's Chomskian thought taken to its absurd extreme.

So you're really trying to tell me that increasing the time of lousy education will magically make that education useful? You're telling me that young kids can magically sit for hours doing mindless work and that they don't need free play or family time? That they can do this and it will bring down behavior problems instead of increasing them?

No. I agree. Your next step is to consider the possibility that, by cutting her free, YOU may well be the one bitterly regretting that decision in the future. Then look to find your way forward. I don't know if it's out of line or not. I think it's probably not helpful, and likely the opposite. Dredging up such specific details won't lead to a good place. Sure. It's fair to both of you. Neither of you is perfect, but each of you is beloved of God. Each of you has the freedom to decide how to pursue this relationship, and together you get to decide which direction the relationship goes. Hmmm... I don't think you're necessarily objectively "wrong" to think that you "deserve someone more sexually pure". I do think that you misunderstand what sexual purity consists of. Sexual purity does not consist of an intact hymen. Sexual purity does not even necessarily consist in never having engaged in intercourse -- consider a victim of forcible rape, who might be perfectly sexually pure despite her "lost virginity". Sexual purity is a type of spiritual purity, something we all struggle to keep. That is why repentance has been made available to us. Honestly, if her having had sex with someone else bothers you so much that you don't want to marry her, then DON'T MARRY HER. You are under no obligation, and you might well do more harm to yourself (and to her) by condescending to marry her than you would by just walking away. I happen to agree with yjacket that people today simply do not put enough value in chastity and sexual morality in general. If you can't get over being bothered by this, then do yourself and your girlfriend a favor, and call it off. But consider: Why is chastity worthwhile? What IS chastity, anyway? "Chastity" derives from the Latin castus, which refers to moral uprightness, usually in a sexual context. It has nothing directly to do with virginity; a married man or woman can and should be chaste, even as they engage in conjugal relations with their spouse. If your fiancée truly has repented, then she is chaste, by definition. In a gospel context, this means that she is "sexually pure". Remember: "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." White, pure snow is white, pure snow, whatever form the water in that snow has taken in the past. Now, don't misunderstand. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT telling you to marry her. That is your decision, and hers. But if (please note the word!) she truly is worthy and fitted to you in every other way, then I think you would be making a foolish choice to turn her away because of previous, now irrelevant, transgressions. You will be cutting off your nose to spite your face. You have fallen into the common trap of thinking that your sexual purity and avoidance of fornication have been a huge, and so far unrewarded, sacrifice. You are wrong. In most cases, virtue is its own reward, and that is true in this case. Your mind, your spirit, and possibly your body are in better shape because you have avoided fornication. Thinking you can "eat your cake and have it too" is a lie from Satan. How awful would it be going through your life comparing your sexual relationship with your wife to whatever "flings" you may have had before marriage? How much might such wicked, pernicious, self-defeating thoughts drag down your marriage bed and degrade your sacred relationship with your wife? No, you will enjoy the blessings of your chastity for the rest of your life, and for all eternity. Don't mourn your "lost opportunity" to sow wild seed. That's like mourning the amputations that you never got the pleasure of experiencing. Maybe you're afraid that your potential wife will do just that -- compare you to the other man or men that she has had. Well, if that's a concern, talk with her about it. And don't stop at her first horror-struck protestation that, oh my, no, she would never do such a thing! Talk to her, in kindness, love, and true charity, but also in absolute truth, until you are satisfied that either you are good with things or that you can't marry her without misgivings. Either way, you have your answer. All the best to you and your fiancée.

You have never been around small kids, have you?

@Gazing at essence, I would seriously like to applaud the honest way you're going about this (honest about her shortcomings and your own), and how you're taking things to the Lord. It is truly admirable. Speaking from my own history here (trying to share different perspectives), I was not a virgin when I was married-- I lost my virginity to a child molester LONG years before getting married. My husband likewise lost his own virginity to a different molester. As others have said here: virginity =/= chastity. My future-husband and I dealt with our trauma different ways. I spent my teenage years beyond terrified of physical touch / intimacy- I actually broke my friend's nose in fury because he called his girlfriend "cute" (obviously not a good choice). My future-husband took a different path and got inappropriately involved with his girlfriend (also obviously not a good choice). He later came unto Christ and repented of his sins and received His healing. I also came unto Christ and received His healing. Nothing is ever going to undo either of our sexual past: nothing "undoes" sexual abuse, nothing "undoes" willing sexual transgression. Neither of us will ever forget the past and the gut wrenching pain it caused. The past is part of who we are, and those experiences both molded us into the people we are today. Both of us came into our marriage with that being part of who are. But there's something bigger than the sum of our past mistakes: Christ's healing. Christ's ability to transform each and everyone of us. Christ.... I can't express to you the magnitude of the NEW person I am compared to before. It is a totally different person. And as to my husband... even my experience is trumped by his. We were both remade and 100% chaste when we entered into our marriage. And man... it's been the most wonderful marriage.

@Gazing at essence - First, welcome to the forum. I can see where you're coming from and applaud your strength of character and commitment to live the law of chastity despite the temptation to do otherwise. I agree with eddified about knowing how long ago the issues occurred and would add to find out about stds just in case. One thing to keep in mind is that since she's been through the repentance process, she may have a deeper understanding and appreciation for the atonement which is a plus and something you could learn from (not condoning or advocating sinning). I have a sister that had two kids from a long-term but too early relationship. My brother-in-law saw that she was a good catch though and they've had a strong marriage and built a wonderful life together. Oh - you mentioned your dad and grandpa's opinion on the matter. I know you need a sounding board but please don't share her transgressions with others (at least not people that she may eventually call family) unless you have her ok to do so.

From the sounds of it, this lady is 100% devoted to the Law of Chasity. She is 100% sexually pure. Has she always been? No, she was honest about that with you. But that doesn't change the simple fact that she is 100% devoted to the Law of Chasity and is 100% sexually pure. I understand your sympathizing with the prodigal son's elder brother. We so frequently we see the younger son as getting to party and later be a saint-- liking having the best of both worlds. We mentally skip over the eatings-with-the-pigs episode. We skip over all the pain and misery the prodigal's actions on himself and his family. Misery far surpassing the seconds of fake fun. We also overlook the other prodigal -- the elder son. To quote Elder Holland: " But being caught up in this younger son’s story, we can miss, if we are not careful, the account of an elder son, for the opening line of the Savior’s account reads, “A certain man had two sons”—and He might have added, “both of whom were lost and both of whom needed to come home.” ..... Feeling unappreciated and perhaps more than a little self-pity, this dutiful son—and he is wonderfully dutiful—forgets for a moment that he has never had to know filth or despair, fear or self-loathing. He forgets for a moment that every calf on the ranch is already his and so are all the robes in the closet and every ring in the drawer. He forgets for a moment that his faithfulness has been and always will be rewarded. "No, he who has virtually everything, and who has in his hardworking, wonderful way earned it, lacks the one thing that might make him the complete man of the Lord he nearly is. He has yet to come to the compassion and mercy, the charitable breadth of vision to see that this is not a rival returning. It is his brother. As his father pled with him to see, it is one who was dead and now is alive. It is one who was lost and now is found. "Certainly this younger brother had been a prisoner—a prisoner of sin, stupidity, and a pigsty. But the older brother lives in some confinement, too. He has, as yet, been unable to break out of the prison of himself. He is haunted by the green-eyed monster of jealousy. He feels taken for granted by his father and disenfranchised by his brother, when neither is the case. " I would highly recommend you read/listen to rest of Elder's Hollands fantastic talk -- https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2002/04/the-other-prodigal?lang=eng

Focus on the things you CAN do and not on the things you can't! Remember that thoughts are powerful and whatever you focus on grows. You are strong enough for this so just do what you can little by little, day by day. {hugs}

@zil, I agree Regarding (3) - removing yourself from the room when something inappropriate is on the TV.... I have family members that watch things on TV which I am uncomfortable watching. This becomes an issue when I am their guest for a muti-day stay. It is extremely difficult to avoid it since it's on all the time. In the evening when the kids are in bed, my wife and I have to find a different place to hang out so we don't have to be affected by the filth on the TV. But if the bedrooms all have children sleeping then where do we go? It is extremely difficult. But I still think it is the right thing to do. It can be very hard, but stick to your principles.

Probably long compared to today... However we know that death will still exist during the millenium... However it will be offset by being resurrected at death. So on one hand people will have mortal lives but on the other they will go right into their immortal ones at the end of their mortality. No idea how such an event will figureinto someones daily life.

I'm good with that; so long as we aren't using it as an excuse to speak of human beings in a self-entitled, proprietary manner. What concerns me a little--at least, it seems mutually contradictory to me--is when someone says "I wish I had been more promiscuous in my youth", but then says "and by thunder, my wife had *better* be a virgin!" Those sentiments smack of the same sort of virgin fetish that result in young girls commanding a higher price in human trafficking markets; terrorists blowing themselves up for the promise of seventy-two virgins in the afterlife; and Chairman Mao's quest to fulfill the old Chinese legend that an emperor who de-flowered a thousand virgins would become immortal. That degree of preoccupation with one's partner's virginity has very little to do with chastity, innocence, shared exploration, or spiritual connection.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you still believe, or at the very least, you badly want to believe. My heart hurts for you and your family. The advice that comes into my head right now is to nurture your testimony on your own. Read your personal scriptures and say your personal prayers. Also, try to love him for who he is. See the good in him. Accept his decision to be worldly and love him anyway. I would not recommend that you leave him -- rather I strongly recommend that you stay with him. You didn't mention abuse so I assume it is still very important for your children that you stay together.

Why? Why is it okay......nay ENCOURAGED for girls to make marrying an RM a requirement, but wrong and evil for someone to make not breaking the LoC? I'm not saying someone should make that a requirement, that's really up to the individual and God, but there's a clear double-standard in the church when it comes to the marriage decision.

One of the unfortunate facets of LDS culture, I think (and it probably derives from the Victorian culture in which Mormonism originated) is that we look at chastity/virginity as a gift we give to our spouses. If that paradigm works for you--okay, then. But in my view chastity is, in point of fact, a gift we give to God. If I'm looking at our own past compliance with the LoC primarily as an ordeal, rather than as a sacrifice that brought tangible and enumerable blessings; then I really haven't caught the vision of it, and that may suggest that my interest in my (future) spouse's chastity is based more in some kind of sense of proprietary entitlement over her "virginity" than in some deeply spiritual commitment and shared blessing. Obviously, I need to know about any kids or STDs or emotional issues resulting from past sexual history; because those may present ongoing challenges through the marriage that directly affect me. But is my wife's status before God, not the status of her hymen, that concerns me most. Ideally I should have a testimony of the Law of Chastity (and be able to impart that testimony to my children) independently of what my wife has or hasn't done (And, by the way--for what it's worth, when Just_A_Girl and I got married, she had just had the Depro Provera birth control shot. One side effect of it, for her, was that she menstruated continually for the first two years of our marriage. So, don't over-emphasize the sex thing; because you really don't know what factors might completely upend your expectations.) Like others have said, I think it's awesome that she's been this candid with you; and I think you've presented some very commendable insights here. I don't think less of you if you can't get beyond her past; and you shouldn't feel guilted into continuing with a relationship you know you aren't up to. There is no "right" or "wrong" in setting standards for a marital partner (you think you want to marry a redhead, or someone who's 5'10", or who has a PhD, or whose legs aren't hairier than yours? Knock yourself out!). There is only realistic and unrealistic--or, as BYU economics professor James Kearl liked to (jokingly) say to his students, your chances of finding someone better if you walk away from the marital prospect currently before you. And I agree with you that she has a right to a spouse who can move past this issue. On the other hand--bear in mind, she chose you. So it strikes me that the question before you is whether you're willing to try to work through this; and whether she's willing to be patient with you as you do. Frankly, from what you said in your OP--it sounds like she might be worth it?

I'm actually fasting for Ramadan this year. It'll take a lot of discipline, but if it strengthens me spiritually, I'm willing to try.

No, you come home, report to the High Council / Stake Presidency and are released. When you are called it is for a period of 2 years or 18 months, says so right in the letter.

I agree, you are indeed being profoundly uncharitable to the OP. For shame. The OP is doing exactly what you say: Investigating whether this baggage is something he can or is willing to take on. That's his choice, not yours. Your shaming of him for asking a perfectly reasonable question and doing some real soul-searching is far beyond the pale.

We recently had our 28th anniversary and it has never been close to being a rocky marriage. I have an older sister that married at 19 and it was a rocky marriage the first several years but they got through it and are still together. It really depends on the individual, some are ready at that age, many are not. I knew it was right for us. The most clear, direct and powerful personal revelations I've had in my life all have to do with our meeting and getting married.

How?

New idea - get together for an indexing party! Two birds, one stone.

If somebody thinks somebody else isn't good enough for them because of something God has forgiven them of, they are filled with pride and lack charity and don't really believe in the power of the atonement. Those who don't forgive others are guilty of the greater sin. You can't dump somebody for something you claim to have forgiven them of without being a hypocrite.

It's possible that you're my home teacher! No offense, between work and kids and house work and yard work and callings and in laws and grandparents.... any free time I have I'd rather not spend with ht/vt. Nothing personal, a smile or nice conversation at church is fine.

http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2017/05/02/things-i-like-about-mormonism/ i was thinking about this post and thinking about what I like about Mormons and mormonism. One thing that I love about Mormonism is that we have loving God who cares about us. I love the concept that everyone can achieve the Celestial kingdom.

@askandanswer Good question! I think what is being taught in the supposed contrasting accounts are different. Elder Uceda is teaching that God's love for us is personal and he cares VERY much about all of his children. In the two scriptural accounts, I believe it is teaching that he does not immediately bless those that only pray when they need something. Such passive blessings belong to those that keep the commandments associated with said blessings (D+C 130:20-21). With the situation in Alma, he obviously did "hear" the prayers like it says, but he did not "hear" them in the sense of answering them. God hears all our prayers but blesses us according to our obedience to the laws that exist.

For the longest time we had no HT coming over, calling, writing. Didn't even know who was assigned to us. This was so heartbreaking for me, who had had the same HT/VT married couple for 30 years running!! For the last two years our HT has been our Branch President. For some cockamamie reason the mini-powers-to-be at our branch decided that if you were active [meaning that you showed up on Sunday, stayed for all three meetings, and half-way performed your callings or could pass the breathing test] then you really didn't need a HT or VT. Okay, this is me - Iggy - the Loud One. I blew a casket! Loudly, and in the presence of our Stake Presidency of every thing. Yep, during our Branch Conference. Well it was after Sacrament and before Gospel Doctrine when the Stake Presidents over everything were touring the Library, and as Librarian I asked who gave the OKAY to no HT, no VT if you were active in church??? Never in my life have I ever seen so many adults do the *Deer In The Head Light* look. They all looked at each other, Stake RS President said: What??? I repeated my statement. They all said ~ in unison almost ~ First I've heard of this. Then they turned to Branch President, who by the way had just been released, and said in unison, definitely: Care to clarify this? Who gave the okay on THAT? There are still single aka widowed/divorced sisters who have no HT's assigned to them. The men that have companions are not paired Seasoned Member with Newby Member either. After two years of never hearing from my assigned VT [single] - I asked my Supervisor if she reported that she visited with me? Yep, she did. So I asked how she visited me? Email, letter, face to face? She said face to face. So, armed with this information I went to the RS President and requested a different VT. I wanted one/pair that would come to my home at least every other month and then email me the other months. That for the last two years, I have not been contacted at all. I didn't tell her that I knew who my VT was, and that I also knew she had been lying through her teeth about visiting me. Took her two months to assign new VTeachers. I love them dearly! They visit every other month, and send emails the other times. They visit together. The emails come from each of them. SO-- now I make sure that I call, email, FB or go see my VTee's every month. I have four. One won't give me her phone or email, but has given me her snail mail. One will only let me visit her at work. One has no way to contact her except via her daughters FB page. The other has a physical address, but I have yet to catch her at home. I leave a card with a spiritual message, invite to church on Sunday, offer to pick her up if needed, invites to RS Evening Meetings, etc. I don't leave food as she lives next to wooded area. Heck, here in this town one just does NOT leave food hanging on doorknobs or sitting on the porch. Too many stray dogs & cats. Too many river rats, raccoons, black bears, crows, blue jays, etc. If you have been assigned to inactive members, still do your HT/VT but keep the spiritual messages to a minimum. Keep the friendship to a maximum.

Guilty as charged. I think I write the amount 1st, because that's what I'm thinking of, and then the dollar sign. But I only do it informally, I wouldn't write it that way for work or an article. As I guess you know, I'm not a millennial. I didn't go to public school, and trust me, I had the benefit of much parental correction. Maybe I'm an outlier. My old lady rant is the inability of people to recognize the difference between 'lose' and 'loose.' You did not loose 10 pounds. Good googa mooga. Where's the death penalty when you need it?

Update: Today we talked on the phone for over an hour. Just a reminder: we aren't currently both in the US. I wish we could have talked in person as well. But she should be coming back here relatively soon. Well to be honest, the news and details were quite a bit worse than I expected them to be. She poured out her soul to me and I absorbed it all. It was very emotional for both of us. @Latter-Day MarriageDon't worry I made sure she knows that she is forgiven and that she has nothing to be ashamed of or embarrass about at this point. She was really grateful that I listened and did not judge her or attack her. All I felt was love for her and a desire that she will be happy. That is what is about for me. Whether I become her husband or not, I want her to be happy and confident that she is forgiven, and not reminded by her future spouse that she was once covered in sexual transgression. It is crazy because in my mind I had drawn this line, and if she crossed it then I was out for sure. And well...yeah...she crossed it but I am not giving up on her. I walked out of the temple today feeling like everything would be okay. As soon as we had finished our hour or so talking about her past and mourning together/comforting each other, it was back to joking around and just talking about our days and plans for the weekend. She is special to me. She said she understands if her past sins are too much for me and again, I had to let her know that any man who would hold that against her doesn't deserve her. I told her it would take me time to accept everything in a mature manner but that I would try. We just go together, she even wants to be friends if things don't work out. At the same time, I cannot imagine only being friends. So I will resume my praying and scripture study. And we will see how things go from here. This was my first time posting on mormonhub. I had read some articles and explored forums here before but today was the day I made my account. Thanks for taking the time to read about my life and offer advice. I feel very welcomed into this special online community.

Well, what we currently have sure sucks.

How the heck is increasing the school day thinking outside the box in any form? It's a rather obvious answer requiring little thought. "Hey, let's make more school so we don't actually have to worry about fixing school!"

If you do leave her over this, I would recommend you make it very clear that it is because of your current weaknesses, not her past ones. Don't you dare put it on her and make her feel like she is not good enough for somebody like you, she overcame her issues.

The fact that she would tell you this about her, without even being asked, says a lot about her and how she feels about you. She seems like she might be a good catch, provided you are happy with everything else you know about her.

Thank you everybody for your comments and advice. I have taken in everything and plan to reread the Elder Holland talk mentioned and also study Luke 7 as both were recommended earlier. I am attending the temple today and will there pray to the Lord to know what He would have me do. I appreciate the compassion and sincerity of your replies. I would like to add that I understand the "problems" revolving around this situation are my own. She has repented and is clean now. A question along the lines of "how much time has passed since her last sexual activity" was asked earlier. The answer, to the best of my understanding, would be a couple of years. Now here are a few more of my concerns and thoughts: 1. As MrShorty questioned, yes I am very uncomfortable with the fact that she is much more sexually experienced than me. Not being able to learn and explore together sexually from square one is something I find extremely bothersome. And that is a consequence of her prior actions. I want to be able to mourn with those that mourn and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, but it almost seems like I am being punished for her sins as well 2. I know that my pride is a huge problem here. This may sound awful, but I really hesitate to call her sexually pure even if she is currently clean. Say a teenager were to purposefully do something really reckless and get in an accident where he loses an arm, he will live with that his whole life. The passage of time will never change the past. We can be freed from our sins and mistakes but not always the repercussions that they bring about. Latter-Day Marriage, I appreciated your thoughts but I struggle to agree with just a few things you mentioned (you did help me see it from her perspective better though ). One being that she has reclaimed her chastity (even if she is currently clean I would contend that that is something impossible to do). I think the apostles warn us of the consequences of breaking the Law of Chastity because it is something that can never be undone. You can be forgiven and made clean again but those poor choices were still made nonetheless and you cannot regain your virginity. I just cannot imagine being married to a woman throughout eternity and knowing that one of us had made serious sexual transgressions with another person before we married each other. How could I ever testify to my kids of the joys a couple who remained chaste until marriage will experience? How can I teach my kids the Lord's way and promise them blessings and comfort for obeying the Law of Chastity when my wife had neglected to obey it throughout her youth and young adulthood? 3. She is a wonderful daughter of God and she deserves someone who will get past this. I honestly do not know if I can mature to a level of compassion where I can be this person and not feel jealousy or sorrow. How can a Latter Day Saint couple where one or two of the spouses has seriously sexually transgressed expect more from their kids? How can they proclaim throughout the eternities how grateful they are that they had stayed true to the counsel of God in regards to sexual purity? It just doesn't seem to me like an obstacle that can be overcome. I realize I have a young, weak perspective so far from eternal. 4. I appreciated MrShorty's emphasis on it still being my choice and for eddified's respect of my preference. Would it be wrong to follow my dreams of marrying a virgin and leave her solely for this reason? I know she is forgiven but this is not the type of marriage I dreamed of as a kid and I just don't see me being happy in that type of a relationship. When I was a young boy at one of my first EFYs I watched an instructor cry as she said that she and her husband struggle with overcoming the husband's sexual transgressions of decades ago (I still have no clue why she shared this in front of such a large audience). I told myself in that moment "Heck I need to make sure that that is not me. I will do my part but wow, that just seems ugly". I am completely lost. 5. In Latter Day Saint culture (or other cultures where sexual abstinence before marriage is taught so diligently) do we have a right to ask our future spouses for a complete rundown of their sexual past? Is it fair to know all the details before making a decision?

Also, it is the law of chastity, not the law of virginity. She has repented and is forgiven, so she has reclaimed her chastity.

Well you don't say "I have dollars 20"... that sounds like a poem where the writer couldnt think of a way to rhyme "minty" so he had to mess with the sentence. You old people are the ones with the strange ways, we are simplifying life and making it better. 40 years from now, us millenials will fix everything! Free school, healthcare, everything will be organic, Everyone will never making 100,000$ a year, no competition, no one will ever be offended, poverty will be gone, anyone will be able to marry anything and however many they want, no privilaged, white, straight male will ever go to college, and not even health concerns will be an acceptable reason to suggest someone loses weight The future looks bright

Maybe people thinking, "I say dollars after I say twenty, so obviously the convention is wrong. I should write it the way I say it."

I think it's a conclusion drawn from rebaptizing people who have been excommunicated. If excommunication did not release you from baptismal covenants, there would be no need for rebaptism.

Gotta tell you, as much as I enjoy the German language and think highly of many aspects of German society, I consider Germany to be a backward, even Satanic, country, in at least this aspect: They believe the state owns the children, and parents are explicitly disallowed from homeschooling their children. You must send your child to the collective for proper indoctrination, or you WILL be put in jail and your children taken from you.

Heavenly Father generally keeps the unbelieving and the apathetic from gaining too much knowledge to protect them from sinning. If they were to get knowledge and reject it, they would fall under greater condemnation. This is very common for those who are what Joseph Smith referred to as, "too wise to be taught." Often, I have found these folks to be educated and "intellectuals" generally steeped in the wisdom and learning of the world. "Ever learning, but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." Not all the time, but often.

Satan's Weapons -philosophies of men - if I can't see it, it does not exist - self-control, sacrifice are old fashioned - it feels so right, it can't be wrong - 'cool ' behaviour is fun, modern, so people become habituated to profanity, taking God's name in vain - the most important thing is success God's weapons Family Home Evening Prayer Scriptures

Problem is, a ~25 year old who looks 25 likely won't in 5-10 years. A 40+ year old who's held onto her looks that well may stay far ahead of the most visible effects of aging for a couple more decades.

Don't assume such photos are real. If I had a nickel for every time I.... er... ...heard STORIES about how it happens... yeah.. that's right... << >>