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Perhaps a misunderstanding on your part of what I referred to... For example, it is with statements like these that I referred to with regard to us continuing to learn and grow Perhaps we will reach a time when we have all knowledge, but it seems apparent to me at first that we will still need to gain knowledge when we get to the next life. It is a constant progression until we reach that time when we are like our Father. IT MAY be that this is a very short time, but to me it infers that we may still be gaining knowledge in the Celestial Realm at least at first.

Wishing you well. I hope you can find three who are willing, capable and reliable. Hopefully, the fact that there will only be two lessons per month to cover will help.

@JohnsonJones I absolutely agree you post unbiasedly. You’ve called me out on some stuff, but you’ve also bolstered me up through some of your other responses. Thank you for being a good example of that. I really mean that. I would say the following users are also good examples of responding unbiasedly: @Vort , @NeuroTypical , @CV75 , @Carborendum (95 percent of the time), @person0, @Sunday21 , @SilentOne , @Midwest LDS , @LiterateParakeet , @Snigmorder , @Just_A_Guy, @Anddenex , @Mike , @mirkwood , @Fether and probably 2 or so others. I really would like to say a sincere thanks to you guys for making this forum a more positive place by leading by example. There is no bias to your criticism, you critique on content alone, and that helps me want to stay more engaged in the gospel as I really do value your perspective and my involvment on this forum. You don’t respond based on your imagined opinions of someone else’s level of worthiness, you just respond based on the content and quality of the post. I’d like to make particular note of @Vort since he’s called me out quite a few times, but everything he does it’s from a positive place, and I’ve sensed it’s out of love and genuine care for others. I’ve always really appreciated that as with the rest of you I mentioned.

I pick no teams, I love (or hate, depending on how you interpret it) all equally. It boils down to the content of a post. If I agree with what a post says, think it adds something, it informs me of something I did not know, makes me think, or various other reasons I'll put an icon on it (like, cry, laugh, etc). I may have disagreed with one in another post completely, but it does not affect what I choose to like, thank, thumbs up or other item in any other post. I'm sorry if you are feeling put upon, that is not my intent or desire. I try not to be biased or go dogging anyone. Me and many others see things very differently from a political point of view, so I do not think I over favor anyone in any regards, but when somebody says something I think is notable I'll mark it. It could be interesting but it may not strike me at the time so I might not mark it as well (so, even if I do not mark something does not necessarily mean I disagree or dislike it, I could very much agree or like it, just not enough to mark it with an icon). On the topic of likes or dislikes, for me I find it can be interesting to see what people respond with, but I do not let it overly sway me. If they put an icon down that they like, or respond and help me to understand their thoughts better, or even if they differ from my own thoughts, that's good. Interaction with others on our ideas and thoughts (in a useful and productive way) regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Gospel is why I am here. For me, I think the more important item is to see how many likes and other items I should put out. Expressing appreciation and love to others is probably far more important than what I receive. On that note I am probably FAR too like a Grinch and should probably give out more thumbs, hearts, and trophies than I do. It may be that because I am too miserly with my likes, or too particular that you feel I do not give you enough likes and love. I apologize if I've given that offense. Once again, even if I don't give one a thumbs up or something to that effect, I could completely agree or like what was said. At times, I just do not have anything else to add to it. Other times I may disagree, but feel it is not worth bringing up. And finally, if I truly think I should pipe up, I do. At times I get VERY wordy and talk a LOT about what I think. Expressing my mind is probably NOT a weak point. There are times people sometimes wish that I WOULD be a little less wordy in my response. However, I assure you that for me, I do not choose a team (unless it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints team, then I suppose you might call me guilty as charged), but if one did a statistical analysis of what I write and what I choose to put an icon with, there may be trends that I subconsciously follow but am unaware of. I am NOT a big fan of High School drama (or at least the idea that we attribute to that sort of attitude), nor the idea of the popular and non-popular crowd of people. I would hope to dissuade such type of thinking among adults. I hope that do not hold a grudge against me on this account and that hopefully we all get along.

Eric Garner's Autopsy Released, Shows Cop Facing Trial Didn't Kill Him https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/eric-garner-s-autopsy-released-shows-cop-facing-trial-didn-t-kill-him--bTOaovocUupiL0JCcoY9Q/?fbclid=IwAR36E9HnATnPxuCKQgiWns8h29giasETM8p2YN4HYd4YIUF1GNV65urfUUs

5 minutes until closing is not the same as closing. Customer deserves full excellent customer service for 5 minutes. All bets are off at closing, therefore, proper customer service protocol would be to inform the customer coming in 5 minutes before close that if they can’t conduct their business within 5 minutes then it’s better if they come back the next day because they will not be able to give them the full excellent experience that they deserve after closing.

OK, yes, I agree with this. It's not that uncommon to hear people talk of God as still learning new things (often supported with a Brigham Young quote) - and that's the notion I reject. (That's what I thought you meant, but if not, you're right, I misunderstood - thanks for clarifying.)

Gooday @Grunt, I can't think of anything more to say on this topic, because I completely agree with what has already been said - the resources that have been referred to, especially the temple prep class manuals, are absolutely the best resources that I can think of for this topic. Here is something from what I think of as a second best resource - still very helpful, but not as good as President Packer's book or the class manuals. It's from the entry under "Endowment" from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, which claims to be The History, Scripture, Doctrine, and Procedure of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and which can be found on the BYU website at https://eom.byu.edu/. For background reading, you might also want to read the entry under Temples at https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Temples. Just a helpful reminder of something I'm sure you know already - there's a lot you won't know about the Endowment and other temple ordinances until you participate in them for yourself. That's when acting on faith, without knowledge, and just trusting in the Lord, becomes more important than usual. Endowment See this page in the original 1992 publication. Author: Burton, Alma P. An Endowment generally is a gift, but in a specialized sense it is a course of instruction, ordinances, and covenants given only in dedicated temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The words "to endow" (from the Greek enduein ), as used in the New Testament, mean to dress, clothe, put on garments, put on attributes, or receive virtue. Christ instructed his apostles to tarry at Jerusalem "until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49), a promise fulfilled, at least in part, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2). In modern times, a similar revelation was given: "I gave unto you a commandment that you should build a house, in the which house I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power on high; for this is the promise of the Father unto you; therefore I command you to tarry, even as mine apostles at Jerusalem" (D&C 95:8-9). Though there had been preliminary and preparatory spiritual outpourings upon Latter-day Saints in Ohio and Missouri, the Endowment in its full sense was not received until the Nauvoo Temple era. As he introduced temple ordinances in 1842 at Nauvoo, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that these were "of things spiritual, and to be received only by the spiritual minded" (TPJS, p. 237). The Endowment was necessary, he said, to organize the Church fully, that the Saints might be organized according to the laws of God, and, as the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Temple petitioned, that they would "be prepared to obtain every needful thing" (D&C 109:15). The Endowment was designed to give "a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God" (TPJS, p. 324), "to prepare the disciples for their missions in the world" (p. 274), to prevent being "overcome by evils" (p. 259), to enable them to "secure the fulness of those blessings which have been prepared for the Church of the Firstborn" (p. 237). The Endowment of "power from on high" in modern temples has four main aspects. First is the preparatory ordinance, a ceremonial washing and anointing, after which the temple patron dons the sacred clothing of the temple. Second is a course of instruction by lectures and representations. These include a recital of the most prominent events of the Creation, a figurative depiction of the advent of Adam and Eve and of every man and every woman, the entry of Adam and Eve into the Garden of Eden, the consequent expulsion from the garden, their condition in the world, and their receiving of the Plan of Salvation leading to the return to the presence of God (Talmage, pp. 83-84). The Endowment instructions utilize every human faculty so that the meaning of the gospel may be clarified through art, drama, and symbols. All participants wear white temple robes symbolizing purity and the equality of all persons before God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. The temple becomes a house of revelation whereby one is instructed more perfectly "in theory, in principle, and in doctrine" (D&C 97:14). "This completeness of survey and expounding of the gospel plan makes temple worship one of the most effective methods of refreshing the memory concerning the entire structure of the gospel" (Widtsoe, 1986, p. 5). Third is making covenants. The temple Endowment is seen as the unfolding or culmination of the covenants made at baptism. Temple covenants give "tests by which one's willingness and fitness for righteousness may be known" (Widtsoe, p. 335). They include the "covenant and promise to observe the law of strict virtue and chastity, to be charitable, benevolent, tolerant and pure; to devote both talent and material means to the spread of truth and the uplifting of the [human] race; to maintain devotion to the cause of truth; and to seek in every way to contribute to the great preparation that the earth may be made ready to receive…Jesus Christ" (Talmage, p. 84). One also promises to keep these covenants sacred and to "trifle not with sacred things" (D&C 6:12). Fourth is a sense of divine presence. In the dedicatory prayer of the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, the Prophet Joseph Smith pleaded "that all people who shall enter upon the threshold of the Lord's house may feel thy power, and feel constrained to acknowledge that thou hast sanctified it, and that it is thy house, a place of thy holiness" (D&C 109:13). Of temples built by sacrifice to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, dedicated by his authority, and reverenced in his Spirit, the promise is given, "My name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this holy house" (D&C 110:8). In the temples there is an "aura of deity" manifest to the worthy (Kimball, pp. 534-35). Through the temple Endowment, one may seek "a fulness of the Holy Ghost" (D&C 109:15). Temple ordinances are seen as a means for receiving inspiration and instruction through the Holy Spirit, and for preparing to return to the presence of God. In Nauvoo, the Prophet Joseph taught for the first time that it is the privilege of Latter-day Saints to act as agents in behalf of their kindred dead. After receiving their own temple Endowment, Latter-day Saints return to the temple frequently to participate in the Endowment ceremony as proxies for, and in behalf of, deceased persons. Consistent with the law of agency, it is believed that those so served have complete freedom in the spirit world to accept or reject the spiritual blessing thus proffered them (HC 5:350). [See also Baptism for the Dead; Salvation of the Dead; Temple Ordinances.] Bibliography Kimball, Spencer W. Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball. Salt Lake City, 1982. Packer, Boyd K. The Holy Temple. Salt Lake City, 1980. Talmage, James E. House of the Lord. Salt Lake City, 1968. Widtsoe, John A. Priesthood and Church Government. Salt Lake City, 1939. Widtsoe, John A. Temple Worship. Salt Lake City, 1986. ALMA P. BURTON

Another link that is even cheaper and instantly available to supplement Iggy's excellent post; https://www.lds.org/manual/endowed-from-on-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual?lang=eng

Please don't take this as my calling you out personally, but the posted schedule is for the business, not the customers or workers. if the restaurant/retail establishment closes at, say, 9:00, then they have every right at 9:00 to say, "We are now closed, and you have to leave," regardless of whether or not you have received the goods/service you hoped to receive. They most often don't, because making money is important. Also, sometimes labor is allotted based on sales per hour, so they may allow a sale to justify keeping their employees there for more time. Whenever I worked food service and closed, it usually didn't bother me if people came in 10, 15 minutes before close. I usually had enough work to do around them that it didn't impede my closing duties schedule/routine. But I would vacuum you out if everything else was just about done. The people there immediately at open bothered me more, mostly because they expected full hilt service the moment the door was unlocked. Heard a rumor that Old Chicago has a limited late night menu so they can keep that cash coming in while employees work on pre-closing duties in the kitchen. In other viewpoints, having customers stay past closing (food and/or retail) can be a safety and liability issue for the employees, especially the one doing the nightly deposit. A grill and fryer should be completely cooled before leaving (ya know, cuz hot stuff can turn into fire) and most employees working nights in food service are minors, which puts them under labor laws that vary by state. Influencing my thoughts on this topic are: I worked for three chain restaurants in 7 locations (3 states), my mom managed a different chain restaurant while I was growing up (and most of my friends worked for her), my sister has been a store manager for one chain for 7 years (5 locations, 3 states), and I live with roommates who have a combined 15 years retail experience, including 5 years management. We were just having a discussion the other night wherein we all agreed that arriving five minutes before closing for anything more than a quick in-and-out is a dick move.

When I read the title of your thread, I had another thought: offering forgiveness will lead the sinner (offender) to repent. For example, in an argument, once one side begins to diffuse the situation (perhaps with their own apology), doesn't it often lead to the other side apologizing? On the other hand, if a person tries to apologize, and this is rejected, doesn't it often lead to worse offenses, harder feelings, etc.? Forgiveness, whether offered before or after an apology, does indeed beget repentance (at least some of the time).

We had a similar conundrum when I was in SS Presidency. When we got released I was quickly called back to teach SS to help fill the void. It's a great challenge since we require two teachers for every class these days as well.

PS: The Holy Temple, by Boyd K. Packer is highly recommended for this purpose (the book, not just the pamphlet). https://www.amazon.com/dp/0884944115/ https://deseretbook.com/p/holy-temple-boyd-k-packer-4212?ref=Grid | Search-1&variant_id=106475-hardcover

Here is the text of Moroni 10:32. The superscripts are mine, and what follows are verses from the New Testament which speak to the things Moroni says: 1 1, 2 2 1, 3 4 5 (emphasis withheld because I'd have to bold the whole thing - look at the requirements listed to receive grace - "receive him", "believe on his name", "born of God" - but please note that we also believe it is by grace we are saved, and not by works; nonetheless, God requires works - if the works are not required, why the above scriptures?) Bible Dictionary entry for Grace If we can do all things through Christ, then why feel crushed when he asks us to come unto him; be perfected in him; deny ourselves of all ungodliness; love God with our might, mind, and strength; and deny not the power of God (what power? why the power to strengthen us that we might do these things, and the power to then perfect us through his grace)? Trust God, for whom all things are possible.

I will provide a little different perspective. But first I would say that a year and a half ago I visited the Holy Land and my perspective of a great many things changed. I will start with the river Jordan near where Jesus was baptized - I was surprised to see such a filthy river full. A Jew explained to me that "living water" is flowing water that has not been stopped from it source. Because tap water can be turned off - that water is not living water - neither is water in a well. Living water must constantly flow. But I also learned that flowing water that has over run it banks and is out of control is considered evil and filthy. I believe that the water Lehi references is the same river. While it is flowing in its course it is considered living water. During a storm when the river flows over it banks and is out of control it is considered filthy. This symbolism can be used in so many ways. There is only one place in Arabia where there is a river that run constantly - year round into the Red Sea. This happens to be very near where Lehi and family were camped when Lehi had his dream. But once a year during the rainy season the river overflows and becomes deadly. And the area where this river runs into the depth of the Red Sea there are powerful undertows that are especially dangerous during the rainy season - being swept into the Read Sea would very likely doom a person to death. Therefor the imagery of a pure stream of living water becoming filthy and bring death provides understanding for those that have access to revelation but do not pay attention to the changing landscape. The Traveler

"giant wall of text" -- quite right NeuroTypical, LOL. Thanks for the welcome, people!

@anatess2 this is my all-time, favorite response from you. It actually got me excited going back to church with my daughter.

I don't have a problem with restaurants cleaning while you eat (generally speaking), but I've been somewhat confounded recently by the the lack of common sense some people have. Example #1 - Two weeks ago, my wife, 2-year old and I are eating at an Italian place when a server comes out with an extended duster and starts dusting the ceiling vents directly over the tables where people are eating. Luckily he didn't come to our section, but from where we were sitting I could see all the dust that was disturbed visibly falling in the air and settling onto peoples' food. The people sitting in the areas where he was cleaning didn't seem happy about it either. Example #2- Yesterday I'm in Costco getting that sweet $1.50 hot dog and soda special. I'm sitting down at my table when a Costco employee with a broom and dust bin comes along. She sweeps around my area and then wants to clean the area around my feet. I have to lift my legs to avoid the path of broom as she says, "Excuse me." I know, real 1st world problems. But how hard is it to wait till people have left their tables before you start cleaning that area?

Bunch of sharks in the water smelling for blood. How about instead of constantly trying to take digs at each other, we give everyone the benefit of the doubt for what they write? Would it be so hard to consider what others posted more thoughtfully like @Carborendum did just now? Honestly, if I wanted to, I could be mad dogging you guys a lot more for the things you say. @Carborendum gave a great example of how @The Folk Prophet‘s words could’ve been twisted around on him just as easily. Here’s another example: does anyone actually read what @Grunt writes? This whole thread is about the guy’s intolerance for those less faithful than him. Maybe a little self-righteous, close-minded, anyone, anyone? I understand the guy is the darling of this forum with his conversion story, but at what point do we stop with the preferential treatment? At what point do we stop picking sides, start treating everyone as equals, and just focus on sharing more in the common love we have for the gospel? I’ve actually exhibited restraint by only selectively responding to the more ridiculous statements by some users. But why do some users feel the need to pounce on EVERY. SINGLE. LITTLE. THING? I’m just tired of all the digs. It’s making me want to treat everyone else the same.

Agreement is not the same as identicality. (Yeah! New word.) Apparently it's not two different definitions of "boredom" happening, but two different definitions of "agree".

Depends on what I mean?!? I was responding to mormongator's statement that if everyone agrees it's boring. Isn't it obvious that "what I mean" is that his statement is silly, that boredom is in the eye of the beholder, and even the implication that lack of boredom is some kind of virtue to be sought after doesn't actually make sense? Did you guys even read the exchange? Or were you really incapable of inferring the obvious point from it?

I never thought of it this way before, but I think you are right @Carborendum. In my life, especially when I was younger, I would treat myself horribly when I sinned. I knew the innermost details of my thoughts, and knew exactly how rebelious, selfish, uncharitable I had been, and so I raked myself over the coals. But what good did that ever do? It always left me feeling worse, and it never lead me to fully repent, because I felt unworthy to even move past my initial sin. I still struggle with this at times, although I'm usually better than I used to be. I've learned that it is far easier to forgive others than myself, but if I am ever to repent of my sins, I have to forgive myself. Why should I treat myself worse than I treat others? Would it help others to repent if I verbally destroyed them every time they sinned? Of course not, and so I really try not to do that to myself anymore. I appreciate you using some scriptures that match my own experiences.

This year in our ward we combined the 12 and 13 year olds, which I teach, and the 16 and 17 year olds. Love teaching my class. We have about 20 kids on the rolls (12/13 year olds), but the most we have show up is occasionally 12. Usually we have 8 to 10 in class. We have quite a few kids that go back and forth every other weekend to their dad/mom. There is a condo complex in our ward that has a lot of single parents living in them. The SS Presidency combined our class because there always seemed to be some sort of mix up with the 13 year old teachers, either one of the team didn’t show up, or they didn’t have a second teacher called, and the kids were beginning to skip their class. So, they combined the 13 year olds into our class, where the 13 year olds often were put anyway when they didn’t have their teacher. I’m thinking it helped that age group to feel like they belonged and gave them some continuity. Plus, I had taught that age group before and they know me. I have one girl who says she doesn’t want any other teacher but me and my team teacher. Hopefully, we can get her to move on. I love those kids, and tell them that every Sunday. It surprises me that these kids like this fuddy-duddy grandma. My team teacher is a younger woman who is expecting her third baby next week. I’m not sure if they will release her or find a substitute. She is wonderful with the kids. But, she plans on staying home during the next couple of winter months after the birth of her newborn because she’s afraid of exposing the baby to viruses.

@Grunt your ward should have Temple Preparedness teachers, talk with your Bishop and tell him that you want the class. You will then be given the manuals, pamphlets, etc. Once you finish all of the classes with your Ward TP teachers, it should take 6 weeks, give or take. You will then have an interview with the Stake TP person. THEN you will have your recommend interview with your Bishop, and follow it up with your Stake President. You will be taught from the manual: Endowed From on High: TemplePrep. . . . https://deseretbook.com/p/endowed-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual-lds-distribution-center-72702?ref=recommend-product&variant_id=26356-paperback Which is available through the church for 3.00 w/free shipping, or you should get it for free from your TemplePrep teacher.

It is necessary, but the Church will not require it of you to remain a member. Some members may never, in mortality, have the chance to go to a temple (though that is decreasing as more are built). Some members, for whatever reason, may never feel prepared to go in this life (e.g. it used to be that unless you were getting married or going on a mission, you didn't receive your endowment, but that's different now). Regardless, sooner or later, the work will be done - if not by the mortal, then by proxy.

Hey! I resemble that remark. I still prepared and taught my class every Sunday.

In our ward, we have 3 deacons, 4 teachers, and 3 priests. Then we have 5 young women starting next year because 1 of them moved out today and 2 of them are moving out at the end of the year. You may call on anybody on our ward to teach your classes. Just send us some plane tickets.

To learn to love God and our brothers and sisters. To develop a mind that understands the work of God and a spirit/heart willing to accept His invitation to join Him in that work, both in mortality and thereafter.

Yes!!!! It's not just here though, I was having mega doctrine overload, didn't know what was what or what to believe and so much information it made me very depressed! So... I went to the temple and prayed about it and came off the internet (for latter-day saint stuff) exception being deseret bookshelf app (which I pay a subscription to) and the Church website, Ensign etc.. Feel so much better I think I am defo in the do my best and follow Christ/ read popular feel good books popular Church books type and I am absolutely fine with that

Wow. Didn't realize there were so many kids in your ward (and so few adults willing to teach them). You know, not that long after moving here and observing the speed at which people drive inside the subdivision, I came to the conclusion that they all had a subconscious desire to run over their children... Maybe I was right. Maybe if you send the kids with no teachers to Gospel Doctrine, eventually the adults therein will start pressuring each other to accept callings to teach Sunday School.

Fixed or healed?

As per a correction in another thread shouldn't this actually be TCoJCoLdS (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...don't forget "The") However...when looking at it that Latter-day is a Hyphenated word...thus LDS should actually be LS...OR we could even say... LSD (as in Latter-day Saints Defined...) It would even be TCoJCoLS These abbreviation things get complicated...

"Please step out of the vehicle." "Get out of the vehicle." Bust the window and yank the guy out of the vehicle.

I actually do try to avoid going to any store five minutes to close if I can avoid it. I don't think there is anything inherantly wrong with it, but I've been where the workers have been. You just want to be done for the day, and then someone wanders in, takes 20 minutes to figure out what they want, and then you're late getting home. I remember when I delivered pizzas for Pizza Hut and someone ordered a pizza at 11:55. Of course she was on the other side of town, did not tip, and paid with a dang check. So I try not to do that to anyone else if I can help it, and if I can't I move as quick as possible so I don't hold them up.

In the Philippines, clearing your table before you leave the table is interpreted as "we want you to leave". So what would happen is the customers will leave and they will never come back.

The first thing to come to mind is the saying, "It's always darkest before the dawn." The first recorded version appears to be, "It is always darkest just before the day dawneth," written by Thomas Fuller in his book A Pisgah-Sight of Palestine and the Confines Thereof in 1650. If I think of anything else, I'll be back.

Well, I know you like Metal to some degree...NOT KISS but maybe this will do for you? Though it says Metallica I believe the actual band is the Trans Siberian Orchestra. And if you like that one, here's another for you

I see your Halford and raise you a Demon Hunter. Because anything by Demon Hunter always raises the bar...

Myself. King of the couch potatoes. Gold medalist everyday thus far.

Should we also de-canonize D&C 135? IMHO our God is big enough not to get His nose out of joint just because, every now and again, we say (or even sing!) that a particular prophet did a pretty good job. And frankly, if anything the modern Church probably downplays the significance of Joseph Smith’s life and ministry; as well as his role as the head of our dispensation. There are already several restorationist churches that throw Brother Joseph down the memory hole, and we don’t need to be trying to occupy that theological niche.

That book has caused some folks grief, but my experience was much different. I had sinned, and prayed for forgiveness, and figured that was good. I figured this whole "crushing weight of shame" stuff, was just something I had to carry with me the rest of my life, but I was good in God's eyes. I started hearing maybe that wasn't the case, and I read The Miracle of Forgiveness and understood that I had more to do. The notion that I had to go confess to my bishop, was indeed a hugely scary notion. I was terrified. But I made the appointment. And was stressed out of my gourd for two weeks waiting for the appointment. And thought of a million excuses to not show up. I was still thinking up excuses as I drove to the church, then into the parking lot, then walked into the church, then sat down in the chair, then thought of what to say. But I did it - I confessed to my bishop. That kicked off a process that resulted in me dancing out of things feeling lighter than air. No more crushing weight of shame. Critics of my church sometimes snarkilly call that book It's a Miracle if you're Forgiven. They basically prostitute the real meaning of "It's a miracle" to the culturally acceptable meaning, where there are no miracles. Well, I have experienced the miracle of forgiveness. That book made me go deal with my crap in ways that changed my life for the better. But yeah, there are a heck of a lot of people out there who somehow read the same book and end up feeling crushed. I don't get it.

No, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not crush my spirit. Well, I am not sure how to put this than bluntly, President Kimball provides a better understanding of salvation and exaltation. Not only does President Kimball already accept what you call a better understanding of salvation, he provides more knowledge. 1) "and that is simply that Jesus paid for your sins on the cross because you couldn’t do it yourself" President Kimball, "I know that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that He was crucified for the sins of the world. He is my friend, my Savior, my Lord, and my God." I am pretty sure the crucified for our sins would also mean "paid for your sins on the cross." President Kimball, "The purging out of sin would be impossible but for the total repentance of the individual and the kind mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ in his atoning sacrifice. Only by these means can man recover, be healed and washed and purged, and still be eligible for the glories of eternity. On the Savior’s great role in this, Helaman reminded his sons of King Benjamin’s comments: “… There is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come, yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world.” (Hel. 5:9.) 2) "And that is a gift to you, and it is a gift that will transform your soul and make you want to follow Jesus like you, perhaps, you never have before." President Kimball, "It is because of Heavenly Father’s gift of His Son that all men—past, present, and future—can return to live with Him who is the Father of our spirits. But to insure that that can happen, it was first necessary for Jesus to come to earth in the flesh to teach men by His example the correct way to live and then to willingly give up His life and, in some miraculous way, accept the burden for the sins of mankind." President Kimball, "[The Savior] died a propitiation for our sins to open the way for our resurrection, to point the way to our perfection of life, to show the way to exaltation. He died purposefully, voluntarily. His birth was humble, his life was perfect, his example was compelling; his death opened doors, and man was offered every good gift and blessing." President Kimball, "The essence of the miracle of forgiveness is that it brings peace to the previously anxious, restless, frustrated, perhaps tormented soul. In a world of turmoil and contention this is indeed a priceless gift." President Kimball, "It is not easy to be at peace in today’s troubled world. Necessarily peace is a personal acquisition. … It can be attained only through maintaining constantly a repentant attitude, seeking forgiveness of sins both large and small, and thus coming ever closer to God. For Church members this is the essence of their preparation, their readiness to meet the Savior when he comes. … Those who are ready will be at peace in their hearts. They will be partakers of the blessing the Savior promised to his apostles: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14:27.)" President Kimball, "[One of the purposes] of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to call people everywhere to repentance. Those who heed the call, whether members or nonmembers of the Church, can be partakers of the miracle of forgiveness. God will wipe away from their eyes the tears of anguish, and remorse, and consternation, and fear, and guilt. Dry eyes will replace the wet ones, and smiles of satisfaction will replace the worried, anxious look." President Kimball, "What relief! What comfort! What joy! Those laden with transgressions and sorrows and sin may be forgiven and cleansed and purified if they will return to their Lord, learn of him, and keep his commandments. And all of us needing to repent of day-to-day follies and weaknesses can likewise share in this miracle." The summary provided dumbfounds me as I am not sure how you provided a "better understanding of salvation," did you not read all his words carefully?

This talk of breaking and crushing under pressure makes me think of diamonds being created, but they'll need heat to. I feel like there's a great analogy about pressure and perhaps a refiners fire that should be worked out... 😋 Perhaps The Miracle of Forgiveness is overly harsh, I too, haven't read it in years. I feel like that is a major part of the point of it though. In order to change one's ways there needs to be recognition that the current pattern is problematic to begin with. I felt the book did a fantastic job of shaking the reader out of the slumber of thinking all is well in Zion into admitting there is great room for improvement. The crushing and guilting as it were serve the purpose to bring about godly sorrow leading to repentance. Repentance is a lifelong process, not a one-time shot. People most certainly will fall short and require continued repentance, but the path they are on is the key. When they mess up do they seek to hide their sins and justify behaviour or do they seek to correct the behaviour and improve themselves? Let me say that sometimes I do find the gospel to weigh heavily which may be crushing, but when I am properly yoked with the Saviour the load isn't such a burden. He truly does carry the weight.

Read my post again. You obviously didn’t understand it. Only those who become gods will have a continuation of the seeds. How do you suppose gods populate the worlds they create? Do they populate them by putting spirits into physical bodies created out of thin air? Brigham Young said there is only one way to create a physical body and that is how it has always been done.

Where does this concept of having “spirit children” come from? Where is the doctrine? And how does that concept fit in with this statement of Joseph Smith? “I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject. I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead—namely, the soul—the mind of man —the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don’t believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. I will make a man appear a fool before I get through; if he does not believe it. I am going to tell of things more noble. We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, “God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam’s spirit, and so became a living body.” The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth. I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven. I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement. The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits. This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ; and I know that when I tell you these words of eternal life as they are given to me, you taste them, and I know that you believe them. You say honey is sweet, and so do I. I can also taste the spirit of eternal life. I know that it is good; and when I tell you of these things which were given me by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you are bound to receive them as sweet, and rejoice more and more.” I don’t believe in the concept of giving birth to spirits. Joseph Smith certainly didn’t. The source of my quote is lds.org

I just wanted to make a single observation regarding this verse The Greek of this phrase in John 20:17 is “…Μη μου απτον ουπω γαρ αναβεβηκα προς τον πατερα μου...” The word rendered “touch” also means “to hold”. The word απτομαι is not merely “touching” in many ancient usages, but it is often an aggressive "holding onto".For example, in the OGIS Papyri (315.56) of 164-3 b.c.) the word is used “ηπτετο μαλλον ημων” when "holding onto" a viewpoint and "pressing" one’s view "upon another" person. It is difficulty with "letting go" of something.The Syll Papyrus (849.6) of 177-176 b.c. uses the words ““ει δε τις κα απτηται σωσιχας...”. In this sense, the word is used in the sense of “Laying hold of” or “appropriating” a thing. In this ancient usage, it is not merely “touching”, but a holding onto something that is being referred to. It is the context that determines whether it means to "touch" or to "hold onto" or the more aggressive use "to appropriate" something.Because the word is so often used as "to hold onto" (aggressively), I believe the Lord is gently telling Mary not to “hold him” in the sense of preventing his leaving her. In this model, he is offering a tender expression such as when someone tells another beloved, “I really have to go” when another duty calls (as it did the risen Christ who had other cosmic duties).The other concept is that we do not know what the entire conversation consisted of between Mary and Jesus nor how long the conversation lasted. Individuals who read the bible tend to think the bible is quoting entire and complete conversations rather than important snippets from an entire life time. John reminds us in 21:25 that Jesus said and did much that was not written down, so much that John hyperbolizes on those many, many, unrecorded discussions and acts, saying the world would not have room to contain the things Jesus said and did if one were to attempt to write them all down.If Jesus and Mary had a lengthy conversation, I would expect that, at some point, Jesus would have said, “Mary, I have to go now". If she had held to him, then it is perfectly consistent for him to say, in essence, “let me go, I have other things I have to do.” After all, he had other things of cosmic importance to do for others whom he also loved.While the concept of conversation is speculative, the meaning of απτομαι as a form of “holding onto” is solid, historical, usage.Good luck in coming to your own models as to what happened and why.Clear

Last Tuesday, traffic accident, verbal warning...oh yeat, yesterday, verbal warning on a trespasser who was already banned from the store. Oh. My. Gosh. That is two in just 7 days...imagine that.