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  1. I love and hate this article. It captures a serious problem--role playing in the church. There's blatant hypocrisy, and the much more common testifying to what we know should be rather than what is. The call to authenticity is appropriate and needed. At the same time many testimonies are sincere and real. The author knows this and rightly expresses concern that some will over-correct. Believers may stop giving testimonies because they fear their own blessings may make others feel unworthy and neglected by God. Worse yet, some will read this thoughtful article and embrace an unhealthy cynicism. They'll assume that most testimonies are fake, or, at minimum, exaggerated. And so, the author calls for authenticity, and requests that teachers give thought to those who struggle. Further, he encourages the hurting to do so out loud, believing that as they share their difficulties, many will identify and find strength and support. My reaction is that testimonies are powerful. "I lost my job, but God gave me a better one." If I am unemployed and I hear that, I think, "Great. Maybe God can help me too." The key is that our praises and good reports should point to God, not to self. It's not important that God rewarded MY FAITHFULNESS. Rather, that GOD REWARDED my faithfulness. If we keep our glad tidings directed towards Heavenly Father we invite new/renewed faith. If we trumpet our own supposed righteousness we invite shame and guilt (which drive people into hiding rather than repentance). If King and Kingdom come first then God's people will flock to church!
    4 points
  2. Disclaimer: I'm not a facebook fan. But this morning my wife shared with me a Pearl. There is a perspective that the shepherds whom received the revelation of the birth of Jesus were very special shepherds. These shepherds cared for the flocks that produced the unblemished lambs to be used in the Temple ceremonies. And because these lambs were so special and precious - when they were birthed, they would be wrapped in swaddling clothes, and placed in a special manger. The same manger where Jesus was born. Thus after the angelic announcement, they knew where to run... https://www.faithwire.com/2017/12/14/the-incredible-significance-of-baby-jesus-being-wrapped-in-swaddling-clothes-after-his-birth/ Merry Christmas
    2 points
  3. This isn't really relevant to @Just_A_Guy's point. He's talking about the frame of mind that the homosex advocates have convinced society at large to have. Specifically: Sexual orientation is the true self. One cannot be happy not being one's true self. Not giving into this is oppressive. Etc. There are pamphlets? Well...yeah. Isn't that kind of the point of religion? We need to be a certain way (like Jesus, in the case of Christianity). Why, may I ask, is it only tragic for homosexuals that religion suggests they'll be happier becoming like Christ? Why isn't that true of all tendencies toward the natural man? Who isn't letting homosexuals exist? Those are the only choices, huh? I think not. This, of course, is one of the core lies being told my the pro-homosex camp. If you preach against my natural tendencies you're hurting my spiritual health. I ask again, however, why does this seem to only apply to homosexuality and other sexually related tendencies (except, of course, any tendencies the world still deems wrong, pedophilia, bestiality, incest, etc.) But how is it different for someone to preach against one thing they consider sin and not crush someone's soul, but preaching against another thing they consider sin does crush someone's soul? Why is it not soul crushing to preach against bad health practices, stealing, lying, lust, hetero fornication, adultery, murder, anger, rage, unkindness, jealousy, etc? Why aren't you as worried about the poor soul who's natural tendency is to be jealous of their neighbor when someone preaches that they should work to overcome those feelings? Poor...poor souls who's natural tendency, and therefore emotional well being and spiritual health is, clearly, being crushed by anti-jealousy dogma? Of course this is nonsense. Yes, of course it can be difficult to hear that one's natural struggles are a sin. But when I hear something I struggle with is a sin and it makes me feel bad it typically buoys up my determination to improve. Just A Guy is claiming, and rightfully so, that if the world was preaching at me that buoying up my determination to improve was wrong...because I had no reason to improve...had no ability to improve...was permanently set at odds against the religion I practiced...and that the ideas of true change, true choice, true faith and trust in God, and true repentance were actual impossibilities, then perhaps I wouldn't feel so buoyed up. Because, after all, the promises of the gospel are as important as the sanctions. The world and the homosex camp is out there promoting the evils of religious sanctions with absolutely no understanding of the promises. What I cannot fathom is how those who should very well understand those promises are here in this forum (and elsewhere) arguing on behalf of those who don't understand them. Give me a freaking break. No one has even begun to suggest anything of the sort, ever. Ridiculous. I seriously doubt anyone thinks that's the only motivating factor. But on the other hand you get people arguing that homosexuality somehow has no relationship to sex at all. The motivating factors are irrelevant to the reality that if you take "sex" out then it's not homosexual. An effeminate man who dresses nice, enjoys musical theater, and takes pleasure in baking and home decoration is still heterosexual if he wants sex with women. It's only the desire for sex with men that makes one ultimately homosexual. Until one desires sexual activity with someone of the same sex, however, one isn't homosexual. Claiming otherwise is buying into a lie. If what's mutually exclusive? What's "it" referring to? What are you talking about? What is the "that" here? So if Hitler had won the Nazi's didn't set out to rule a continent and exterminate ethnic “inferiors” afterall?
    2 points
  4. An acquaintance of mine finally came to my church to *see* what it was all about for himself. This guy is a Catholic. Little c, not big C. The Sunday he picked just happened to be Fast & Testimony. We have our sister who gives a primary lesson, then the guy who drones on and on and no one really understands what he is saying exactly, the four same children who come up and recites theirs, the crier - don't have a clue what she is saying but there she is doing it yet again this month. THEN we have the real jewels - those whose testimonies are original, real and so incredibly packed with the Holy Ghost. Well this Little c guy told me when I got home after the block, (he refused to remain for GD & PH ) that it was just as he knew it would be, we weren't saints, after all, we were just plain, mortal, human beings! I smiled, took his whole arm in my handshake with him, and said: "Yes, we are mortal human beings. We are all sinners. But Neighbor, the gospel doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are true, and they are not hidden from our mainstream members and only for the "Big Wig Corporate Guys in SLC" [his words describing the 1st Presidency] We members of the LDS Faith must remember that. We are not yet saints. That will come, if we are worthy, after the second coming. You are oh so right. We are taught from the time we are first introduced to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, [but mostly to the primary children] that our testimonies are Thanks Yous to Heavenly Father. That Heavenly Father has given us E V E R Y T H I N G. Not just the air we breathe, the water we drink, the sun, moon, and stars. This earth we live on. But also the food we eat, the peoples who inhabit this earth with us. He gives us the knowledge to earn a living to purchase the food, buy the clothes, make the clothes. E V E R Y T H I N G. The 10 percent tithing of our earnings given in tithing is a drop in the ocean Thanks and [argh, cannot find the word needed here] that we are commanded to pay. The MOST powerful testimonies I have ever heard were from members who had *Been there, Done that, Got the T-shirt and AM NOT EVER GOING BACK* I don't stand at the pulpit on Fast & Testimony Sunday very often. Actually, in the 20 years, I have been back into activity, it has only been twice and I was so shocked to see that I was standing at the microphone and words were coming out of my mouth. THAT is how strong the Holy Ghost was and how faithful I was to heed It's prompting. I was saying, "I have danced with the devil for the 30 years I was inactive, Been there, done that, and I will NEVER go back. The testimony I was giving was why I left the church and then came back into activity. When I left the pulpit, I really looked at the people sitting in the pews, and I saw more visitors [at least I thought they were visitors] than active members. During GD these visitors stood up and introduced themselves. A few were LDS members visiting from other states, but the majority were 'inactives' who were surprised to find themselves sitting in the pews and in Sunday Go To Meeting clothes! From that Sunday on, I hear all testimonies with a different *light* ~ so to speak. Not only with my mortal ears but also through the still small voice of the Holy Ghost. Every once in a while, the Stake Presidency or it could be the 1st Presidency will send a letter to be read over the pulpit at the beginning of Fast & Testimony reminding us all exactly what a testimony is, that it is to be kept short - no more than five minutes, so as to give all who wish to bear theirs the time to do so. That children should be encouraged to give their testimonies during their Sharing Time in primary. I have always felt that at least one of the 5th Sundays in the year should be devoted to Testimonies. What they are, and just as importantly what they are NOT. The Young Men and Young Women need to be in attendance along with the adults as well. When I was a counselor in Primary, we took one of those 5th Sundays and taught the children what components made up a Testimony. How to recognize their own personal way that the Holy Ghost was speaking to them. How to heed that still small voice or the burning in the bosom. And just as importantly how to voice that during their time at Fast & Testimony during Primary. We members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must remember we are all sinners, and that we come to church to be healed.
    1 point
  5. You are the kind of person that the Homosexual agenda drivers love. Because you are doing everything they want in the name of poor hurting people.. without understanding why they are really hurting. Homosexual have gotten there legal equality... But that is not enough... and it is never going to be enough until you destroy anyone that thinks differently. The church has existed for 200 or so years. And in that two hundred years, there as always been a small numbers of suicides and self harm. It is a simple fact of human nature that there will always be outliers. Then the Homosexual agenda takes off.. and the Suicides and Self Harm among the Homosexual population rise. Instead of thinking critically about the cause and effect of what is really causing the Dead and Broken. You weaponize compassion and take aim at the wrong target. Our position on Homosexuality did not cause the rise in Dead Bodies. We are the Scape Goat. Now your weaponized compassion is taking you to the point where you are justifying the punishment of anyone that think or feels differently. That is not leaving us alone. That is not tolerant, that is not supporting diversity... That weaponized compassion... that is you abusing the dead and hurting yet again... while lying to yourself that you are doing the RIGHT THING.
    1 point
  6. We do not have to differentiate between Judas and David. Neither will they face us in judgment and their fate has nothing to do with us and our fate. If G-d accepts their repentance and they are glorified in the resurrection - I will not curse G-d and I will not forgo any mercy offered to me for my sins. The Traveler
    1 point
  7. Except when they testify of Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial degrees/kingdoms of glory.
    1 point
  8. I'm not going to differentiate. I'm going to leave that to God on the day of judgement.
    1 point
  9. Remember the gospel of Jesus Christ believes in The Holy Bible, The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. I think you are missing at least four books.
    1 point
  10. My response will probably be similar to @Midwest LDS as we follow the line of thought of the following scriptures in the Book of Mormon: 1) "For there are many promises which are extended to the Lamanites; for it is because of the traditions of their fathers that caused them to remain in their state of ignorance; therefore the Lord will be merciful unto them and prolong their existence in the land." 2) "Yea, I say unto you, that in the latter times the promises of the Lord have been extended to our brethren, the Lamanites; and notwithstanding the many afflictions which they shall have, and notwithstanding they shall be driven to and fro upon the face of the earth, and be hunted, and shall be smitten and scattered abroad, having no place for refuge, the Lord shall be merciful unto them." 3) "For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation." (what you already mentioned) Think about our own parenting efforts. Why are we more merciful/patient when our younger children make a mistake? Why are our laws less severe on the youth, rather than adults? A while back I was watching a documentary that covered a "Headhunter" tribe. Part of a right of passage was for a father to kill a man, then place this head in the lap of his 13 year-old boy. The tradition was that the spirit of this beheaded man would enter the youth, and thus the youth would become a man himself. This was due to the wicked traditions of their fathers, by which all of us would have partaken of IF we knew nothing else. What else would we have partaken of if we were raised in different homes? The repentance process for David in comparison to Lamoni (or all other of the Lamanites who buried their weapons of war) would be different, and they took this covenant with God so seriously that they were willing to lay down their lives instead of raising the sword to protect themselves against their Lamanite brothers. This is also why I accept why God's punishments were more severe in the Old Testament after the children of Israel had been delivered. They had more knowledge that God was with them, not just through faith. We also see this notion with the sons of perdition. They who have received a greater light. They who have denied and willfully rebelled against this light. Thus, they receive a greater condemnation and no forgiveness in this world or in the world to come.
    1 point
  11. 1. Sincere thanks for the kind thoughts. 2. I acknowledge they are ugly words. They apply to ugly behaviors and, in the case of a specific post by @Tyme, ugly sentiments and ugly reasoning with deeply horrific implications. And more broadly, we have reached a stage of sexual mores that people like Nero and Caligula could only fantasize about—what they had to pay massive sums of money for, the victims of the Sexual Revolution have been encouraged to give away for free—and they don’t even realize it’s a problem until youth and beauty pass them by and they find themselves paying scads of money to therapists and psychologists—the latter-day father confessors, many of whom fleece their flocks more thoroughly than the old priesthood ever did—to work through (or at least numb) the bankruptcy of their relational histories and restore some semblance of functionality to their lives. Not only is the emperor naked, but he’s shooting up the schoolyard with an Uzi and trying to bust his way into the cafeteria; while the faculty are in the lounge celebrating the fact that Principal Fuddy-Duddy just got demoted and giving detentions to anyone who utters the word “gun”. 3. As I indicate above, the Church’s rhetoric has only softened in the past few decades—and as thanks, posterior-clowns like the Mama Dragons and other “mainstream” gay-rights groups are now accusing us of murder (and using made-up numbers in the process). This is calculated to bring about a very particular end, and our playing nice isn’t going to stop it. Speaking anecdotally: Professionally, just the facts that I a) continue to oppose gay marriage, b) assert the Church’s right to enforce its own community standards, c) assert the right of parents to encourage their children to refrain from gay sex, and d) express personal skepticism of adoption by gay couples and singles in cases where adoption by equally qualified straight couples is an option—regardless of the tone with which I have made my arguments—would cause me a lot of discomfort amongst my colleagues and quite possibly put my job at real risk. None of that is going to relax any time soon, so we may as well tell the hard truths now, while we still can. 4. When you ask whether it matters who started the shooting since the battle is destructive to all: YES. To continue your metaphor by looking at historical wars: One side bombed Pearl Harbor. One side fought for the preservation and promotion of slavery. One side set out to rule a continent and exterminate ethnic “inferiors”. One side declared unrestricted submarine warfare and invaded Belgium. One side crossed the 38th parallel. For those sides to simply tell their victims “look, we wouldn’t have to do this if you’d just lay down their arms”— Screw that. Intentional or not, it’s horse manure. It’s victim-blaming. It’s bullying. It’s promoting the ultimate victory of evil. Their ranks may include decent people who are deceived to some degree; but that number diminishes as the agenda becomes clearer and the demands more extreme. The leadership, those setting the agenda—and those who stay with them and keep parroting their arguments as the mask comes off—are, in the main, tyrants who demand complete obeisance, and they’ve manipulated the situation so that every gay suicide feeds back into their cause. I think it’s high time gay Mormon kids understood which side wants them alive and which side profits from their deaths; and if the left doesn’t like me pointing out that they use gay suicides to advance their agenda, then maybe they shoul quit using gay suicides to advance their agenda.
    1 point
  12. Realistically we all break the standards of the church... its called sinning. Its not a good thing, however as long as we recognize it as such and are trying to do better we will be ok. The bigger problem is when we buy into the lies the world selling that our favorite sin (whatever it might be) is really ok. Public figures are not immune to sinning... And we should not expect them to be. The real question is are they becoming converted to the Great and Spacious Building? We have no way of knowing that at this point in time. However stepping out from under the control of BYU will let them be more truely who they wish to be... For Good or Bad
    1 point
  13. There's nothing hateful or condemnatory of his struggle with homosexuality itself here. There's condemnation of the "embrace the natural man" attitude displayed along-side it, and full support for the idea that he should focus more on who he actually is -- a child of God -- in his messaging. Which by itself would be commendable if he didn't add all the "my gayness is beautiful" style garbage. I commend the effort to help youth. It'd be like me sharing that I struggled with the temptation to view pornographic images and sharing that with other so they didn't feel that they were alone in their similar struggle but then I start waxing poetic about how my desire to watch other random people engage in explicit sex acts wasn't my enemy, I needed to stop fighting against it, it was a how God made me, and I need to embrace the "real" me -- with nary a mention that I needed to abstain despite the natural man (who actually, scripturally, IS an enemy to God). Inject any other struggle we have and the problem becomes obvious. "I'm coming out as an alcoholic because I've realized it's a sweet and wonderful integral part of who I am and it's not my enemy." "I'm coming out as a someone with a temper because I've realized it's a sweet and wonderful integral part of who I am and it's not my enemy." "I'm coming out as an thief because I've realized it's a sweet and wonderful integral part of who I am and it's not my enemy." "I'm coming out as an adulterer because I've realized it's a sweet and wonderful integral part of who I am and it's not my enemy." "I'm coming out as an pedophile because I've realized it's a sweet and wonderful integral part of who I am and it's not my enemy." Except these things are our enemy and they are not sweet and wonderful and they are not "integral" to who we really are. The hope is that one would actually share the gospel's message. "I have such-n-such temptation to sin, like others do, and I'm sharing this so they don't feel alone in this, but it does not define me, I choose not to act upon it, and I trust in the Lord that as I obey His commandments He will bless me and help me to be more like Him every day. You, like myself, can be strong and faithful, relying wholly upon the merits of Christ, and as you and I do, I know we can be blessed with His strength and Spirit to obey His commandments and remain faithful to Him despite our natural struggles." This is the message I want to see. Not embracing the natural struggle as if it is a beautiful, God-made-me-this-way-so-it-can't-be-bad, wonderful thing that not only shouldn't be put off, but should actually be embraced. If a humble, faith affirming, obedience centered, putting-off the natural man, don't label yourself, you are children of God, trust in Him, keep up the good fight message accompanied His decision to share his struggles with the youth then I'd have nothing but praise. I certainly hope so. Of course the only mention of God is that he believes God expects him to magnify his gayness. It's a work in progress I think. Sure. But that work to be done is not abandoning plain gospel truths like the need to put off the natural man. I'd be more encouraged if the responses I've seen were more put off the natural man instead of embracing it coupled with the good efforts to not overly shame ourselves for our weaknesses. If the LGBT crowd would stop pressing it as if it were wholesome then I expect that might be possible. Unfortunately the solution to any problem cannot be to embrace things that are not true.
    1 point
  14. I do. There are probably a lot more of them out there than you may realize. I knew a wonderful organist (he has now passed on) who stayed celibate and followed the law of chastity from all that I am aware of him. He never married. There are others, but most of them do not feel the need to broadcast their personal lives (so I probably should not either). It is possible and doable, just like it is possible and doable for some who is a heterosexual who never has the chance to get married to remain chaste and obedient to the law of Chastity as well. The world would like to convince us otherwise today, but the world's way is not the Lord's way, and with the Lord all things are possible.
    1 point
  15. Very awesome point, @zil. @Carborendum, what exactly is it to forgive yourself and repent? I believe we have a fairly strong sense of repentance because we teach it frequently. What is forgiveness, though? We day we forgive others all the time. I honestly believe we typically mean it and act as such, too. However, does forgiving someone set the clock back to to before the transgression? In most cases I don't believe that is possible. If your spouse is unfaithful you forgive them and work to restore normalcy to your relationship. How long does it take to reset the hearts and minds in the relationship to the point they were at prior to the infidelity? Is it ever even possible? I believe He knows our hearts and that is how we are judged. We preach all the time to investigators and those with shaky testimonies that we should act on faith and the desire to believe. We control actions. I think the same applies to forgiveness. We must desire to foregive, even ourselves, and pray for that desired end state. The natural man is imperfect, though, so I don't believe repentance is tied to perfection. At least I hope it isn't.
    1 point
  16. Watching @Carborendum video reminded of a fun little item. When the Brother of Jared was trying to figure out how to light the barges he asks the Lord how to solve the problem. Ether 2:25 the Lord responds to him with a figure it out yourself, I don't have to spoon feed you everything: Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea? The Brother of Jared comes back with his proposed solution Ether 3:4. 4 And I know, O Lord, that thou hast all apower, and can do whatsoever thou wilt for the benefit of man; therefore touch these stones, O Lord, with thy bfinger, and prepare them that they may shine forth in darkness; and they shall shine forth unto us in the vessels which we have prepared, that we may have clight while we shall cross the sea. As you read in Genesis 6, it talks about the creation/sizes of the Ark etc. Genesis 6:16 reads: 16 A awindow shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and thirdstories shalt thou make it. Footnote (a) window reads: HEB tsohar; some rabbis believed it was a precious stone that shone in the ark. Ether 2:23 (23–24). Appears the Lord had already given the Brother of Jared the answer to his problem, he just needed to go read his scriptures instead. Perhaps similar to us in our day, appears the Lord may not spoon feed us all of our answers to our problems IF he has already given us the answers in the scriptures.
    1 point