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My husband came with me and my son to church today and I don't know how he did it but he managed to quietly entertain our son for 30 minutes. Then he took our son out for the rest so I could stay in the meeting, it was a better week this week.

The first session will start with prayer and the last session will end with prayer. Whether any other prayers will be said in between, I'm not going to guess. There will be singing, talks, and some sustaining. Something will be announced. No fewer than 5 people will take notes with fountain pens.

D&C 76 (received February 1832) starts out with a two-resurrection paradigm as stated in John 5 (“resurrection of the just” versus “resurrection of the unjust”) and hints, but does not explicitly state, that the Terrestrial fall into the former category. D&C 45 (received March 1831) is rooted in the same binary paradigm. D&C 88 (received December 1832-January 1833) introduces a four-phase resurrection paradigm (vv 97-102). The second phase (v 99) tracks the terminology used to describe the Terrestrial in D&C 76:73. Thus, the nomenclature used to describe the “first” and “last” resurrections as given in D&C 76 was technically obsolete within a year of the revelation’s having been given. But old terminologies die hard, especially when they are enshrined in scripture. McConkie tried to reconcile all of this by defining the first phase as per D&C 88 the “morning of the first resurrection”, and (as near as I can tell) invents the phrase “afternoon of the first resurrection” to describe the second phase.

1) Because the Brethren said so. That's really the only authoritative answer I can give. Why did they say this? Clearly, limited time is a part of it. But since an opening prayer should take no more than maybe a minute, there's probably more to it. In any case, the Brethren have obviously concluded that a second-hour opening prayer is unnecessary. Beyond that, it's guesswork. 2) Basically the same answer as above. To me, it makes sense to close the sacrament meeting with prayer before going on. I'm less confused about closing the sacrament meeting with prayer than not opening the second-hour meeting with prayer.

To me that is more of a matter of “modern revelation trumping old revelation/policy” Maybe I won’t get swayed in it, but my confusion comes from a frustration I have with a lot of people who won’t see prophetic words as divine instruction unless it is “canonized”. To many, the Prophets are nothing more than commentators to the scriptures. Also, you look at the context of everything after the book of Acts and some Book of Mormon chapters like Moroni 10 where the writer who most the time is presumably an apostle or prophet and they are writing a letter to some specific group people or are quickly carving away final thoughts before they die... how is that more authoritative than modern day Prophets giving prepared and pondered over speeches at the pulpit?

In my opinion... Actually...yes. Difference... for example.... Blacks not being allowed to hold the Priesthood = actually Talked as Doctrine in several Conference talks in Church History and by Proclamation in 1949... Vs. All worthy males are allowed to hold the Priesthood and perform the ordinances thereof = Official Declaration 2 = Found in the Doctrine & Covenants Aka...Official Declaration 2 found in D&C trumps any proclamations made previously and absolutely trumps Conference Talks.

As far as I can tell from TPJS, he (and I assume his culture) wasn't obsessed with exact, cited quotes from scripture. There are lots of footnotes that link things in TPJS to verses from the Book of Mormon - implying that's where he got the idea, but he himself doesn't cite the Book of Mormon or quote it directly. (Peruse through the Citation Index, and you'll find lots of such footnotes.) No idea whether the Joseph Smith Papers project has a useful way to search for such things - I only have TPJS and Lectures on Faith. PS: He mentions the Book of Mormon in some way or other many more times than above, but above were the only direct quotes I found.

As made evident in bold above, there appears to be a distinction drawn between know not the, and without law. Those that know not the laws will have part in the first resurrection, and those without law will have part in the terrestrial resurrection. What all, exactly, this distinction entails, is unclear.to me. I speculate that the difference is the incapacity or capacity to sin. It may also be a function of which "law" the Lord has in mind in each case. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So I just saw an argument by someone who is against vaccines. It went something like this (paraphrased): You're a hypocrite if you judge people who don't vaccinate, but then turn around and feed your kids the kind of garbage that puts them on a path to Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. And that struck me as a good point, because if you're okay with using Government to force people to vaccinate their kids on the grounds that it's protecting the children, then you have a very weak case against the Government also telling you how to feed your own.

I’m in Vegas... so ya... we are still living the law of Moses.

HI @marge, great to see you again!

I could see the Proclamation on the Family and The Living Christ becoming Official Declaration 3 and 4. Perhaps some new revelations added as section 139 and 140 as well.

I know a lot of people get upset when many of the leaders are businessmen, but this is an international church now, and we need leadership familiar with the business and political world to achieve the goals of the Lord. Do you know the first non-US country to have two temples? Germany. Why? Because of the savvy of our leaders, we were able to negotiate a temple in East Germany before the wall fell. After the reunification of Germany, the country had a West German and East German temple. That is simply remarkable, and could no be done if the Lord did not place those leaders in those positions. A friend from high school was in the Austria mission before the temple and was one of the first missionaries to enter East Germany. The Lord knew what was coming, and prepared the people years before it happened.

In our Sunday school lesson today, my mind was provided with a correlation of scriptures that I had not previously connected. The scriptures are: 1) Doctrine and Covenants 93: 31-32 2) John 3: 19-21 3) The Parable of the Sower Conversion is a process that happens through the principle of grace upon grace. Whenever "light" is introduced to us the Spirit of Christ (light of Christ) in us all will bear witness. This light will entice our intelligence to act for itself, or the "light" will be acted upon. In the Parable of the Sower we speak of four types of ground where "the word" (the seed -- Alma's symbolism I just correlated also from your other thread) will fall. When this light enters our hearts we will nourish or reject it. Our actions will show our acceptance of "the seed" (the word made flesh). This is growing grace for grace, and one aspect that distinguishes the Savior from us. The Savior never rejected any truth, any way, any life that was given by the Father -- light. The question which we all know, where will we place the light, the seed, the word of life?

If you really want your mind blown - befriend a devout Muslim raised in Arabia (from geographically where that chapter was given) and let them explain what symbolism they understand from that particular chapter. The Traveler

I will begin by saying that the entire book of the Gospel of John is my "favorite, and perhaps mind blowing multi-layered meaning and symbol-steeped passages of scripture" - not just because of the rich symbolism but the most profound prophecies rich in symbolism of particularly concerning the "Restoration". It would seem that the most prominent criticism of the restored Gospel (in particular doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) by those of religious nature are modeled through the opposition of the prominent Jews (Pharisees) towards the teaching of Jesus as witnessed by John. Take for example; John 10:30-34 where the Jews intend to stone Jesus - not for his deeds but because he taught through doctrine deep in symbolism that a man can become a G-d - which is the most criticized and most misused and misunderstood doctrine of Christ and the restored church of Jesus Christ. The Traveler

1 Nephi 8 is filled with symbolism that is multi-layered. I at one point thought I had learned everything from this chapter. I decided to memorize the whole chapter, and while memorizing the whole chapter the Lord taught me six principles that were there. I think I have finally come to a full understanding of this chapter, but am probably wrong once again.

Yes I am looking forward to it.

Excellent! Here is something else to consider that is along the lines of the "sinner" that Vort mentioned: According to Jeff Bradshaw and Matt Bowen, in their Interpreter article on "By the Blood are Ye Sanctified," an additional layer of symbolism, and one I hadn't heard or thought of before, is that Isaac represents us, the followers of Christ, the sons and daughters of God, or in other words all of mankind who are willing to obey and who wish to be "born again" or "born from above" and return to the Father--i.e. enter into the kingdom of heaven They quote NIbley as saying,L "...Then the last thing is 'and by the blood ye are sanctified.'125 You can’t sanctify yourself but by completely giving up life in this world, which means suffering death, which means the shedding of blood. … [T]he shedding of blood is your final declaration that you are willing to give up this life for the other." They then went on to suggest: "As we will discuss in more detail later on, the temple sacrifices of ancient Israel — which pointed back to Isaac’s arrested sacrifice and pointed forward to Jesus’ unarrested sacrifice — the people were to “see” their own arrested sacrifice and redemption, having been spared the shedding of their own blood through the atonement of Christ. " Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Seen from a much broader perspective, the Nephites realized there was an ocean on the west of both the North and South countries and on the east. We use this same designation today. Even without technology the early explorers were aware of this fact also. They didn't differentiate the two oceans as north-south but rather east-west.

I would imagine that is all part of God's plan. Being foreordained, Apostles would need to be in a position where they can walk away from everything for full-time service for the rest of their lives.

My favorite is still the wheat and the tares. Wheat is used to make bread and thus the bread of life as symbolic to Christ and the sacrament, or, life is in the wheat. We are the wheat. But, what's interesting is that in the Rexburg temple the wheat motif is symbolized throughout but only in the sealing or marriage room is the wheat motif blossomed and ready for harvest.

I'm happy with the new changes and look forward to hearing from my son tomorrow. However, I still plan to write to my son every week because I don't want to end the practice that I've followed every week for my previous two children. I still have all of the letters that my parents sent to me when I was on my mission. I don't think I have any records of the very few phones calls I made to my parents.

In Ether 3, I think it significant that the brother of Jared went to the top of an exceedingly high mountain (Shelem). Mountains are not only symbolic of temples, but also as a means of getting closer to God, in this case exceedingly close.. On the top of Shelem, the brother of Jared presumably gathered material (rock), which he then molten into 16 "stones" (two for each of the eight vessels) that were made thereby "white and clear, and transparent as glass." While on the top of Shelem, the brother of Jared prayed to the Lord. Among many miraculous things resulting therefrom, the Lord touched the stones and they became a source of light. I take from this the symbolic meaning that prophets on earth, such as the brother of Jared, gather men (rocks), and through the gospel they are changed (molten) to become new men (changed from rocks to stone) and made pure and righteous (white and clear). And the prophets pray over their flock, and eventually the hand of Christ the Lord touches them and they become a source of light as well. Powerful. What is your take on this and other symbolic passages of scripture? Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ok, so I am not LDS, and I must preface this by apologizing for posting here when the thread is directed at Saints in the US. I do not mean to disregard or cause offense. I chose to weigh in because this is a topic that is of extreme importance to me as an American, as a Jew, and as a Rabbi with a decent sized congregation. Jews, particularly American ones, have a longstanding aversion to guns. According to a 2005 American Jewish Committee study, Jews have the lowest rate of gun ownership of among all religious groups, with just 13 percent of Jewish households owning firearms (compared to 41 percent for non-Jews) and only 10 percent of Jews personally owning a gun (compared to 26 percent). This is a point on which I strongly take issue. I am pro-gun, pro-self defense, pro-concealed carry. I carry everywhere I go, including the synagogue, and I was a firearms instructor for many years. So why do I feel this way and step away from the majority of Jewish sentiment in the US? There is famous Talmudic dictum: "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first. This statement from the Talmudic sage rava is derived from a Mishnah passage that permits a homeowner to kill an intruder in self-defense if the trespasser arrives in the night. Some Jewish gun proponents have argued that since the Torah commands self-preservation, acquiring the means for that preservation is also a religious requirement, with some going so far as to suggest that gun control laws prevent Jews from exercising their religious obligations. More than this, we know that דוד המלך (King David) protected his flock, and so, too, shall I. I will do what is necessary in order to keep my congregants safe. Just my .02

I just came across, or rather had opened to my understanding, a new favorite symbolism-rich passage. Actually, it is the first part of the Gospels--particularly John, which covers the narrative of Jesus' time in mortality from his birth to his interaction with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well. (I had initially intended to post this on the Come Follow Me study forum, but it doesn't fit a given lesson as structured on that forum, so I figured it would be appropriate posting it here.) In addition to the multi-layers of symbolism for each of the individual events reported during the aforementioned time frame, it occurred to me that they, together, subtly teach sequentially, the Plan of Progression. Here is how--at least as I have come to see it: The period from Christ's birth to his baptism represents the pre-existence, where Jesus' birth symbolizes the birth of all of us as spirit children of the Father, Jesus' teaching in the temple symbolizes the Heavenly Council where the Son goes about his Father's business and presents his Father's plan, Jesus growing in knowledge and stature and favor with God prior to his mortal mission, symbolizes our growth as pre-mortal spirits preparatory for entering our own mortal missions , where we are enabled to continued in growth and so forth. John's preparatory work and Jesus' baptism symbolize the creation--baptism is the means of bringing about a new creature or creation. The period following Christ's baptism to the conversation at the well, represent mortality and the application of the Gospel on earth, where: Jesus' journey into the wilderness to be tempted, is symbolic of each of us leaving heaven and descending to fallen earth, there to enter mortality and be tested. Jesus' first public miracle of turning water to wine symbolizes the need for those of us who sin during mortality to undergo a transformation (from the old man of sin to the new man of righteousness), or in other words, it symbolizes the first principle of the Gospel--i.e. faith, in he who has the saving power to transform us. Jesus clearing the temple symbolizes our repentance, where sin is driven out and the temple of our bodies are made again a place for the Father, through His Spirit, to dwell, and where the ordinances of salvation may again be rightly performed. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus symbolizes our being "born again" through baptism. Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well symbolizes our receiving the living waters of the Holy Ghost The period from the clearing of the temple to the women at the well, also represents the afterlife and immortality, where: Jesus' clearing of the temple symbolizes death, where the corruptible body is "driven out" or separated from the temple of the spirit body. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus symbolizes the resurrection, where the spirits of men are born again into glorified and eternal bodies. and finally, Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well is symbolic of the living water of eternal life,. Granted, it is possible that I may be reading too much into this. But, I don't think so. It seems to all fit rather nicely in my mind, and in a way that is quite moving, if not mind blowing. Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Another POST from years ago. It is IRONIC. People from the area just North of Israel were considered related more to the European than much of those with a tad more melanin for many centuries. In fact, it was not until the invasions of the Medieval and later times that the skin tones of many of those in the related areas were darkened. The Byzantium (aka...Eastern Roman) Empire was FULL of those who we would recognize as appearing as those with European roots. There was a solid mixing between those of Persian and Greek/European descent prior to the time period of the Roman Empire among those who were Semitic and by the time of the Lord you would have those who were VERY white to those who were darker in tone. It has been an agenda piece of some to try to force a dialogue by IGNORING what the historic peoples of the area looked like, and indeed, even what they look like today where they tend to be a LOT more fair than what you would find from those of Northeast Africa. In most accounting, he probably would NOT have looked like what they posted from Popular Mechanics as that is taken from how those (slightly south) in the Middle East may look today after invasions and intermixings of blood from Africa and Asia rather than what they probably appeared as when they were primarily retained in their original appearance. Even today, if you look at those from Palestine (the Palestinians) they are not necessarily as DARK as the article posted. In fact, one who went among the Palestinians (who many consider the natives of the area, or more native than some of the European Jews who came back) they would immediately question who this article was getting their DNA analysis from. It seems it is more from those who wish to poke a stick in the eye of those who are Christian, or mock the traditional Christian ideas of what the Lord looked like that are pushing a narrative in this direction. It is not just about pure scientific study and speculation, but with an agenda to tear down the traditional ideas of Christianity. Nevertheless, there are those that ARE that dark or darker. There are those that are fairer. If anything, all any article could point out is that we do NOT KNOW what he really looked like. What should be obvious are that the pictures created where he appears like a certain European Noble instead of someone who was more Jewish in appearance probably are inaccurate. In this the agenda is probably not as bad as some may think, as tearing away the traditional idea that he was copied in face and form after a European Noble rather than what he probably really appeared like is probably a good thing. We probably shouldn't be worshipping the picture of some Nobility from Europe years ago.

Everyone that is blessed of G-d is rich. The Traveler

Your'e not doing this in Utah yet? Sounds like the church in Utah is a long way behind what's happening in the Zion of the South.

Plural marriage to be reinstated Tithing replaced with United order word of wisdom to include gluten, red meat, and caffeine getting tattoos now bars you from the temple for one year or longer church rolls out it’s own school curriculum for k-12 New book of scripture animal sacrifice reinstituted Book of Mormon geography confirmations revelation on details of different degrees of glory raising mission age up to 21 arranged marriages made common practice Worship bands to be formed in every ward

Yes, they may have been confused that the sun rises in their north and sets in their south. 😜

Yeah? Well how'd it turn out for Socrates?