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This in an extremely unhealthy environment. No amount of cleaning can make it sanitary- the filth is literally growing inside the walls. Frankly, the best gesture of love is to have them reported and the place condemned. There needs to be that abrupt change, moving out, and learning proper sanitation.

1) The filth is literally growing in the walls. No amount of cleaning or bleach can sanitize the place. It is literally impossible. 2) Yes, it is a major health risk for any ward members to be in there, unless you come with full haz-mat suits and training. 3) This place is disastrous for the residents health. It would be turning your backs on them to have them stay living there (and again you can't fix it). They need to move AND learn proper habits. 4) Yes, you should voice your concerns to the RS and other ward leadership. Good leaders listen.

This honestly isn’t my forte, legally speaking; but I am unconvinced the city/county has an interest in the cleaning habits of grown adults within the interior confines of their own house. The adults have an interest. The mortgage-holder might have an interest. Otherwise, though, I just don’t see it. Even if legally, there were some government agency with power to take my report and act on it—my libertarian sensibilities encourage me to keep the government out of it and let them be. Now, if we have adults who just can’t care for themselves and we need to put them under guardianship—that, I can get behind. But I need more evidence for that than just a filthy house; and in any event, I won’t accomplish anything by just condemning their house and telling them “get out, and good luck”.

I found this forum a couple weeks ago and have posted a few times. I like this community and figure I'll stick around and check in every so often. I am in my late 30's, married with three kids. I've been a missionary, financial clerk, ward clerk, YM's adviser and councilor, den leader, primary and Sunday School teacher in church. Recently excommunicated, but working hard to repent, change, and be re-admitted into the Church. I am trying to develop more healthy connections with more people instead of isolating myself. I figure an anonymous forum would be a good place to reach out. My wife and I aren't comfortable yet with most real-life people knowing of our situation. She's changed the setting for our family on the directory to private so most people can't see us.

I think people tend to better their lives over time, until they die. Thus, most people alive today will agree that they are in a better position than they were 20 years ago. Has nothing to do wtih social media, but just the natural progression of life for most people in a decent economy. So the mere fact that the lives of individuals today may be better now than they were before the advent of social media doesn't mean much. Is society as a whole more healthy? I rather think not.

*My* life was not better. I think most people’s lives were not better. But I think society as a whole may have been better off. Sometimes what is good for us individually can be bad for us collectively.

Was life better before <insert leap in technological achievements here>? No. Although many will be able to successfully debate a No answer when it comes to things like the invention of Tampons, and Birth Control, and Baby Formula, and Breast Pumps with regards to the ability of women to remove themselves from the house and neglect their children, we can all intellectually agree that the invention of those things were not intended to cause the neglect of children and that the freedom and convenience it affords women (which is its main reason for existence) has been very beneficial to society. All it comes down to is - with great technology comes greater responsibility. Ability afforded by technology (or wealth, in general) is neutral - the bad person will be empowered to do more bad things, the good person will be empowered to do more good things, and everybody will be empowered to do good or bad things according to their desires. Therefore, just because a person couldn't do the bad thing he desired in greater magnitude doesn't mean that the world is better. Because, in the end, it is what's in the heart of each person that lasts through eternity and not whatever technology.

This feels like more of a “we know you guys are starting to panic over what you’re going to do next year, and we haven’t forgotten about you” thing, than anything else.

Here is a good read on black mold for those who are interested: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323419.php

FTR, black mold is an overstated danger. Yes, in heavy concentration over a prolonged period, it can be dangerous to human health. In addition, ripping out walls infested with black mold will spread the spores everywhere. But there's nothing special about black mold. It's just mold. Mainly, you have to know that your typical bleach solution won't really work to kill it. The bleach is toxic to the mold reachable on the surface, but soon enough, the underlying mold will come right back. You need to clean off all the mold you can, then spray with a special mold-killer that you can buy at any Home Depot for about $15/gallon. EDIT: Would you believe $35/gallon? My bad.

Who is better placed, and more likely, to help - the church, the government, or another non-government organisation? And what do the residents want? It seems to me that these are the most important questions that need to be answered in order to decide what should next be done.

That's pretty horrific. Maybe see if your area has something like Adult Protective Services. You can report cases of self neglect.

Hi dprh, welcome. My name is anatess2 and I'm a basket case. We're gonna get along just fine.

Howdy!

Speaking personally: Monday I was in a car accident (everyone is ok). There was a blizzard, I slipped on ice, and hit the median. That blizzard did not appear as a sign of God's wrath- it appeared as a natural meteorological process. As was the ice. God didn't make me loss control- that was my accidental fault. God didn't place the median there- the interstate construction people did, so that cars didn't crash into oncoming traffic. None of this had anything to do with God's wrath. It was just an accident. It happens. And no, God is not to blame because He didn't magically levitate my car over the median or anything like that. However, God is with me, and has helped me grow from this experience, rather than just being uselessly angry.

Hi and welcome dprh! Sweet, blessed anonymity does indeed have some advantages.

Well the bishop decided to carry on and try to help them. He's seen the pictures. They say they've made it a matter of fervent prayer so who am I to judge. As I said, I don't have stewardship in this at all. I had no idea who this woman was. Still haven't met her. I just showed up to help because the RS president is my friend. The husband seems relatively "normal" and wants to help his wife but he's been living in a different part of the house that doesn't look much better. I feel they need some kind of help beyond what the church can give them. I think what's going to happen is that once they get this woman's bedroom in shape for her to return home, she'll need home health nurses to check up on her. Once they are involved, it will hopefully be out of the ward's hands if further referral to the health dept is needed. I admire the RS president's grit. I wouldn't have had the guts to step one foot in there that first day when the husband came to her for help. I hope she doesn't get sick from this!! She's mom to a huge brood of kids and grandkids.

Welcome, friend.

Just seems rather negative.

Eventually we will all end up dead or vegetative. There is no logic in that; to not do all we can for good and what ought to be done now. The Traveler

That, right there, is all the reason to get out and let professionals take over from there. Even if the rest of the house were reasonably clean that alone would be reason enough to peace out.

Did you know? Jacinda Ardern, PM of New Zealand, was raised Mormon? She allegedly left the Church due to “gay rights”. I wonder if she knows Islam’s stance on gay rights when she donned that hijab. Anyway, just wanted to share this meme.

We REALLY need a "groan" reaction.

Saturday Night Live? What is that? I have completed forgotten that the show even exists . It's not worth watching anymore in my opinion.

The point is, those examples of racism are often experienced by people who aren't a minority. It's like you are comparing bad experiences of one group to the ideal life of white people. Fact is, a lot of white people are shot by cops. And per-encounter statistics show that whites are actually more likely to be shot than blacks. But we never, EVER hear about these stories, because they don't fit the narrative.

Regardless of who runs Venezuela, the country still remains a place with very rich resources. China and Russia are not gonna forgive the massive debt Venezuela owes them. And, I would suppose, they pumped money into the place knowing full well the country is being mismanaged and wouldn't be able to pay them back because there's always the possibility of making it into another North Korea.

One of the tragedies here is that the "hygiene" habits she's been taught are those responsible for this disaster. She's got a tough life road ahead of her.

This is what I would do... of course, this would be before I consult @Just_A_Guy for legalities. 1.) Have Bishop fast offering funds pay for a weekly stay at a long-term hotel. 2.) Torch the place and claim the insurance... okay okay, maybe we can't claim insurance. 3.) Have the priesthood rebuild the house from the ground up - ask some Amish folks for help if necessary. 4.) Assign double the ministering brothers and sisters to check up on them every week to slowly teach them proper hygiene and clean habits.

I did!!

Dating advice: First pick an activity/event that you like. Then, pick a person you’d like to do it with; and invite them. Be your own person throughout the process, and in your quest to find someone you love, don’t forget to also make sure it’s someone you like.

A few years ago I read an article that included a question something like, "Have any of these things happened to you?" or "How many of these things have happened to you?", followed by a big long list of stuff that had happened to the black author or their friends/relatives (I don't remember exactly what the article said about that). The clear implication was that white people would have experienced few if any. There were about three that hadn't happened to me. I can definitely believe that those things happen more to black people, but what I thought the article really demonstrated was that while yes, I have never experienced life as a black woman (or man), the average black person has never experienced life as a white person.

Wisdom! I remember how my whole life just got easier when I realized this. I put it in different words: "Life got a lot easier when I stopped caring what most people think about me". The realization came with another - that I was responsible for choosing how I wanted to live, and why. Gaining a testimony a few years later was a massive relief, because now I knew the hows and whys (or at least, where I was going to go for all the hows and whys).

Institutions such as Scouting are only necessary relative to the lack of proper father figures in children's homes. Hence, I don't worry one bit about my own children -- as I plan on being a proper father figure. As to the actual youth program -- I can see it being in line with the home centered, church supported desideratum.

I think Scouting—even imperfectly practiced—does make boys not-quite-useless. I learned to pitch a tent, lay a fire, basic first-aid concepts, basic financial management, fundamentals of flight, how to sail, and some other skills and interests that have stuck with me. But I not sure it’s anything one couldn’t get from other programs like http://questclubs.net/ or https://diy.org/about or (for adults) https://strenuouslife.co/. The BSA’s unique strengths are its network of merit badge counselors (which the Church could substantially replicate by asking its adults to leverage their various professional and skills and hobbies), its real estate holdings and camps (the beginnings of which the Church already has, and which it can grow with all the money it’s saving in dues, if it wants), the uniform/insignia/tangible award aspect of their advancement program (which it seems is—lamentably, IMHO—becoming somewhat passe anyways), and its donor network (which was more of a New England-WASPy country-club-dilettante networking thing, and the proceeds of which never made it to the boys anyways). No, the air is thick with opportunity—if we are willing to put our shoulders to the wheel and make the most of it.

Coming from outside the US, its a bit of a mystery to me why the scouting thing is such a big issue. You can run a YM program and interested YM can enrol in the scouting program on an individual basis - as happens in all other countries. Until we have a fuller picture about the new program it is difficult to make comparisons, IMO it comes down to: Do we have faith in church leadership knowing how they want the youth of the church to progress? I am another one anticipating an October roll out, and see the update as a reassurance that things are coming into place. Currently my focus is on getting my uber enthusiastic Beehives through Personal Progress in a year.

Speaking anecdotally, serving in quorum presidencies was far more effective leadership training than anything I did in Scouting—the latter just shoved me into experiences wherein I learned through sad experience how to identify a jerk on a power trip. I don’t worry about our faith community’s ability to train leaders or inculcate character or virtue to the rising generation. Surround good people with good people, and they’ll ultimately find a way forward regardless of what planned-for-obscelescence print materials they reference or whose overpriced uniform shirts they’re expected to buy. The only difference is that BSA leadership at the national and council levels has proven primarily interested in what they can skim off of our programs in order to feather their own nests; whereas the Church leadership is actually busting their chops to provide us with useful real-world resources and support at significant personal and institutional sacrifice. So yeah, the uncertainty is frustrating; but at this point I mostly just want to know the parameters of what I can and can’t do, places I can and can’t go, and what kind of funding and physical facilities and staffing will be available for my program.

I see program layout being given and focused on during Oct General Conference. Leaders (global and local) can spend time going over things, get things going etc. I don't know about you, but every time I've been involved with youth/kids programs, the planning goes out a few months at best, so giving program specifics out 3 months in advance works well for that. In the mean time, the church planners still have time to listen to the testers, make modifications, etc.

@unixknight - provided a portion of what I was providing; although, as he specified it is much more complex than a simple cause and effect with each natural disaster. Let's review some scripture history we have access to (although not complete). 1) Sodom and Gomorrah was a city that was destroyed due to their disobedience, and we have the mercy of our God that specifies if there is but ONE person that can be considered righteous he will not destroy any city. We don't know exactly how, people have their interpretation. It was the disobedience of this people who had been warned and remained in their wicked state. 2) The Book of Mormon before Christ comes is a result of disobedience, which even those who were covenanted people felt. All those natural disasters were a result of the disobedience of the human race. 3) Famine and pestilence can be a result of not listening, and thus the Lord takes means to humble his sons and daughters. 4) Not every natural disaster is a result of disobedience, but simply being a part of this world, and yet God has control over all natural disasters. The easiest example is the Lord in the New Testament who calms a storm. Another example is the Brother of Jared is able to move a mountain due to his faith and will of God for the people at that moment. So, God can sway or temper any natural disaster due to the faith and obedience of his sons and daughters. So, yes and no, if we take scriptures natural disasters do indeed happen because of disobedience (look to Pharaoh and the result of his disobedience). Natural disasters also occur as a result of our fallen world, but through faith these can be diverted as generations exercise faith and become one with the Son (just as the Son calmed the storm).

For the sake of explanation, let's take the greatest person in the world that you've ever heard of and equate their entire life sum to a sum value (for illustrative purpose)-- the greatest person you're ever met is worth $1.04. The single best person who's lived, striving by their own best efforts and nothing else = $1.27. A person who has embraced Christ, His goodness & gift = $9,789,039,368,399,930,058,254,252.92 The greatest any human being can ever become on their own, is absolute pittance when compared to the moral greatness of God. God acknowledges that the $1.27 person exists, and they can have their $1.27. But as long as Ms $1.27 rejects God, then God can't make her any more than $1.27. When she chooses to accept God and His gifts, then she can/will be made more by God.

Forgive the following of my writings if it seems aggressive. The New Zealand Prime Minister is a tyrant in my opinion. (There are many of them in this world.) She said citizens should arrange to turn in the firearms banned under the new law. Did the citizens not pay money for their property? It is rightfully theirs and others have no right to take it. If a government is willing to strip away your firearms they can take anything else they want. They have already proven it in taking away property they had no right to take. She is stealing the New Zealand citizen’s property with the lies and empty promises of more security. I know the New Zealand Prime Minister is not going to give up her body guards armed with semi automatics equipped with standard capacity twelve to thirty round magazines. After all she and all the political leaders in the world are so much more important than the common citizen.

I find it annoying how so many countries begin to hate us, then when we leave, they pretty much go to hell (economically), and then they blame the US for that. That has happened so often in so many countries, that were at one time colonies, doesn't matter if it's South America, Central America or Africa. Anywhere, in fact. I think that says something that everyone should be looking at a bit closer.

The circle you have to square when giving life-advice to someone with mental health issues, is that often the issue serves as a distraction from reality; and the person then sees no reason to conform their behavior to a reality their illness leads them to ignore or even deny. When I represented parents whose kids were in DCFS custody, easily over half of them were struggling with depression or some other issue. You want to be sensitive to that; but they also have—HAVE—to face the reality that they’ve got 12 months to get their crap together or else they will lose their kids permanently; and someone’s got to tell them that. We can’t change reality to conform to the idiosyncrasies—however sincerely felt—of any individual. (Example: what if the bishop/GA was actually struggling with a mental illness of their own? We’re all under the same covenant to bear others’ burdens, so why shouldn’t the member change to accommodate the leader’s weakness rather than the reverse? We run the risk of triggering a race to the bottom as each party comes up with an ever-more-debilitating illness to explain why discussions and councils and policy decisions must play out THEIR way, without regard to the merits of any person’s actual position or preferred course of action.) Having had to warn (or be present as others warned) mentally ill folks of the harsh realities and expectations they need to rise to on more occasions than I can count (and having seen those conversations flagrantly misrepresented more than once), I’m not inclined to Monday-morning-quarterback the good-faith efforts of others who find themselves in that same boat as a result of calling rather than profession. And regarding the helpfulness (or not) or mentioning the LDS pioneers in such a context, all I can say is that some folks with depression *want* to hear that others have overcome tremendous setbacks to live normal lives, and others . . . don’t. And as harsh as it sounds: if they don’t want to get better, then they’re going to have a very uncomfortable time in this church. It’s wonderful that, after years, some of the folks in the article’s anecdotes decided that the gospel is primarily about changing ourselves rather than changing others. But it says something rather disconcerting that this “Lord, is it I?” mentality apparently isn’t the immediate go-to position for many, many Latter-day Saints when they hear something in the bishop’s office that they don’t like.

No, I think your initial impression is pretty much correct. The show tried for social commentary, but it was so often buried in the dungheap of shock humor, it was hard to see. It was basically Homer Simpson at Moe's bar, except made into an entire series. But the episode where Cotton got Peggy back on her feet was a rare gem that showed a little depth of character. He basically humiliated her until she got ticked off enough at him to punch him in the face, and she regained her ability to walk just so she could dance on his grave. Which was his goal too - he danced with her. Anatess' story about the person with lupus reminded me of the episode.

That's not why it was useful. The question "are you done" - which came from my husband - was useful because it brought straight home to me that my mental health is not my husband's problem. It is MY problem. I needed to take responsibility for it and not expect my husband to be responsible for making it better. "Get over it" may be different but it is the same in the sense that it gives that message - take responsibility for it instead of expecting other people to be responsible for it and being upset if they're not equipped/or even understand it to such a point that they can do anything about it. Mental health is just like physical health - if you ask your friend to help you with your stomach ache, don't get upset if he ends up giving you stupid advice nor should you put that responsibility on his shoulders - it's your stomach, go to a doctor who knows better.

Looks like my SECOND calling is going to get dumped, too. Beware! When I get a calling they close down the program.

Or an emoji throwing a tomato

If it gets cleaned, please post after pictures. My brain is now filthy and needs relief. The house will probably need professional mold remediation, possibly including removing the walls....they should probably treat it as though it were a disaster cleanup....because it is. I hope these people get help and get back on their feet. On my mission to Texas I saw houses this bad. I remember one house being so filthy and having so many roaches that they were crawling up my legs. It was like I was on a hallucinogen, as the walls were moving (bugs crawling).

My platonic friends made their own dice.

I can never remember if that's the 12-sided or 20-sided solid.