Leaderboard

Apparently you missed the memo, or maybe you've just been reading bad news. We have the greatest number of confirmed infections and deaths, because we have the greatest number of administered tests. You have to look at per capita rates to have any sort of meaningful comparison.

I don’t remember not knowing about it. But then, I was a weird kid who read Donna Hill’s “Joseph Smith, The First Mormon” while still in elementary school. Money digging, multiple First Vision accounts, seer stones, polygamy . . . Whenever it was that I first heard about them, I was just too young to know why I should find them particularly outrageous. So I read the stories, thought “cool!”, and moved on. As a kid, from about middle school onwards I consistently knew more about LDS and scriptural history and dogma than my Sunday School and seminary teachers did; so I’ve never really looked to the Church (at least, not to Sunday instruction) as my primary source for knowledge about the Gospel. It’s only in doing apologetics that I’ve had to really stop and think about how much information was spoon fed to me by “the Church”, versus how much knowledge I got because I proactively went out and looked for it. And frankly, since I never got—or asked for—much academic-type knowledge from the Church’s traditional instruction programs, it’s hard for me to work up a lot of empathy for those who look on the shortcomings of those programs as some sort of whitewash or fundamental betrayal. I suppose the CES can’t really disappoint you if you never really held high expectations for it in the first place.

You're probably talking about the Remnant Church. So yes, they broke off citing major doctrinal changes like female priests as a sign of apostasy but I think the official break happened when the last descendant of Joseph Smith that became an RLDS prophet, Wallace Smith, appointed Murray, a non-descendant of Joseph Smith, a prophet. The Remnant Church maintained a prophet that was a descendant of Joseph Smith which was the main reason Joseph Smith III broke off from Brigham Young in the first place so this was the final sign that Wallace Smith fell into apostasy.

"...Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. WE CALL UPON responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society." The Family: A Proclamation to the World, 1995

So, the latest growth shows a bunch more female flowers. Some of them have already dropped the floral top and are developing into melons. This one is around 2-1/2 to 3 inches long. Both plants have grown so much It has gone beyond the bed boundaries (10' x 20' for two plants) and the whole bed is pretty densely populated with leaves. So, I found this one and a few others on the sidewalk. By the end of next week, they should be ready for culling. Or I may want to keep them smaller. I don't want to carry a 30 pound melon off the ground. If it is 20 pounds, that will be fine by me. Most larger melons at the store are around the 10 to 20 pound range.

I don't recall anyone bringing this up. But since it happened almost in my backyard, I'll mention it. https://apnews.com/938e786d6e2f5a27d8c63370c0fa3e2c https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting/suspect-killed-in-texas-navy-base-shooting-identified-as-syrian-born-u-s-citizen-idUSKBN22Y2O6 https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/21/corpus-christi-naval-air-station-shooting-vpx.kris Last week there was an attempted mass shooting at the NAS in Corpus Christi. The gate guard saved the day.

LDS cultural knowledge about the first vision accounts, mainly came when we started getting beat over the head with them as a criticism by critics. Something that started as the world went online in the '90's. Before that, you actually had to be reading and paying attention to know about them. Here's an article from 1985 about it in the Ensign. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1985/01/joseph-smiths-recitals-of-the-first-vision?lang=eng

Wait... this is your own mother? Condolences, Carb. We just passed the 7th anniversary of my father's death. I still pine for him like he passed yesterday.

That is certainly the way we'd hope that the data would be analyzed. But the problem is that they are all 100% counted as COVID deaths in all the statistics we've been given. FACT: At least SOME of the deaths were PRIMARILY due to COVID. FACT: At least SOME of the deaths were PRIMARILY other causes. FACT: Some of them were a combination of causes that all contributed at a significant level. FACT: We will never know what percentage goes into which of these three categories because it was never recorded. But we can be confident in knowing that the COVID reported statistics we're hearing are very inflated. How much? We don't know and we'll never know. My mother had COVID. Even though she was very old, she recovered rather quickly. She died of a heart attack a couple weeks later. She was counted as a COVID death. Why? Not because the doctor wrote it on the death certificate. Nope, that said "heart attack." But some schmuck gathering statistics on COVID only asked one question: Did she test positive for COVID. Yes. So, he wrote it down. Nevermind that she had it WEEKS PRIOR.

It depends on how the raw data is analyzed. Over 90% of the COVID-19 death are among populations that have chronic health issues. Among the chronic health issues listed are - high blood pressure (heart decease), strokes, diabetes and obesity (not to name all). By including this with the overall data and we have had a decrease in overall deaths in the USA for all such causes so far this year - including all the deaths from COVID-19. The transparency you think you are getting is anything but. However, it is not so much miss information coming out of most states as it is from the CDC that is obviously trying to stack the deck - the question we all should ask is - WHY? The Traveler

So, here is my patch today. Compare to the picture at the OP of this thread.

I haven't read the book, but I served in the Independence MI mission so I ran into Community of Christ (old RLDS) folks all the time. In addition, there are a bunch of smaller break off churches as well including the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Church of Christ Temple lot, and the Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. At least when I served in the area (2005 to 2007) there wasn't any animosity between them and us. In fact, I liked running into the members of those various churches because they were super nice. You also had to be quick on your delivery, because once you start your opening spiel about a prophet of God being called in our day, you were apt to get the answer "oh I know. We are reading Ether 12 (or whatever chapter in the Book of Mormon you choose) right now". I did a lot more talking about and testifying of Brigham Young than your standard missionary lol.

There is no RLDS church. They are named the Community of Christ and have been for 20 years or so.

To go along with the remainder of your post, I'd point out that (quite honestly, both sides) don't care about facts or consistency anymore. They care about "How can I criticize the other guy for doing something great while I praise my guy for doing something really badly?"

"That same God who gave the revelations to his servant Joseph Smith in regard to these matters, will fulfil every jot and every tittle that has been spoken, concerning that nation. What then will be the condition of that people, when this great and terrible war shall come? It will be very different from the war between the North and the South, Do you wish me to describe it? I will do so. It will be a war of neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, county against county, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed and manufacturing will, in a great measure, cease, for a time, among the American nation. Why? Because in these terrible wars, they will not be privileged to manufacture, there will be too much blood-shed—too much mobocracy—too much going forth in bands and destroying and pillaging the land to suffer people to pursue any local vocation with any degree of safety. What will become of millions of the farmers upon that land? They will leave their farms and they will remain uncultivated, and they will flee before the ravaging armies from place to place; and thus will they go forth burning and pillaging the whole country; and that great and powerful nation, now consisting of some forty millions of people, will be wasted away, unless they repent. Now these are predictions you may record. You may let them sink down into your hearts. And if the Lord your God shall permit you to live, you will see my words fulfilled to the very letter. They are not my words, but the words of inspiration—the words of the everlasting God, who has sent forth his servants with this message to warn the nations of the earth. The Book of Mormon contains many of these predictions." -Orson Pratt, Delivered in the North Branch Meeting Room, of the London Conference, on Sunday evening, March 9th, 1879.

The strife between LDS and RLDS has always been about 2 things - Authority and Property Ownership.

I love this article from her great-great granddaughter: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1992/08/my-great-great-grandmother-emma-hale-smith?lang=eng

The one about Emma Smith? I think LDS scholarly types are ok with it's scholarly work. I can't find a FARMS review on it, but they certainly quoted it in other reviews. 20 years ago when there were a ton more antimormons than there are now, the critics seemed to like it because it had all sorts of painful dirt on the relationship between Emma and Joseph, and the book keeps Emma in the spotlight. And Emma's story after Joseph's martyrdom is a difficult thing for LDS folks to grapple with.

Short answer: Personal interpretation of the gospel and pet theories rather than the basics of faith, humility, obedience, and sacrifice. Long answer: From Mosiah 12... This is a very important beginning of the conversation. Abinadi specifically states that they have not taught them the ways of the Lord. They have perverted them. Then asks them what they ARE teaching the people. So, as far as they are concerned, they're doing what they're supposed to do. They teach the Law of Moses, after all. That is the Law of God. Therefore, we're teaching right. But what is Abinadi's response to their claim? It is easy to think that Noah and his priests were simply hypocrites. I don't think so. At some level, sure they were. But the primary thing that Abinadi is giving them a tongue lashing for was the fact that they were not doing their jobs and preaching the word of God. He starts his actual lesson with the Ten Commandments. Pretty basic stuff. Not the doctrine of the atonement or grace, or works, or love thy neighbor, or the value of work... He teaches the commandments of God. And when he does, both Noah and Alma are pricked in their hearts. I'd say because neither of them had even thought about (or taught about) the commandments in a long time. And they were being reminded of them for the first time since their apostasy. We can all have our pet principles (which are true and just principles). But we twist them in such a way that we justify our sinning against the commandments of God. We believe in the "warm and fuzzy things" like "love thy neighbor" and excuse ourselves from ignoring the commandment to stay chaste or to warn our neighbor or to cry repentance to all the world. And to do so, means we're simply creating our own offshoot of the Church rather than staying true to the roots. That was Noah's great sin.

What, no remarks about “well, JAG, considering you were there when it all happened, of course you weren’t surprised to read about it . . .”? You’re slipping, my brother . . .

Thank you. Yes. I mentioned it before in the "slow return to normal" thread.

My first and only interaction with a member of the RLDS went like this: RLDS Guy: are you elders?? Elder Fether: We are! RLDS Guy: My wife is too!