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  1. Just_A_Guy

    So It Begins

    Erm . . . Not quite. Yes, the Brits accepted runaway US slaves. American southerners lived in fear of the Brits fomenting a slave rebellion—an early draft of the Declaration of Independence simultaneously blamed George III for continuing the slave trade in the colonies, and also for stirring up those same slaves to rebel against their masters. During the Chesapeake Campaign the British Admiral Cockburn was able to muster a couple of regiments of ex-slaves, units of which had taken part in the sack of Washington, DC the month before the assault on Fort McHenry. And virtually all Americans scorned the British soldiers as either recently-emancipated slaves (who, as throughout all ancient history, were despised as an uneducated and undisciplined rabble irrespective of race) or paid mercenaries (“hirelings”), whereas the Americans characterized themselves as “freemen . . . stand[ing] between their loved homes and the war’s desolation”. Yes, the verse contains snobbery (I wouldn’t say “racism” per se, though Key himself was undoubtedly a racist). No, it does not glorify war crimes. It is a jingoistic paean to American soldiers who considered themselves to be both better soldiers and motivated by a better cause. Sure, it’s a little obnoxious—most good patriotic displays are. But the real problem with “The Star Spangled Banner” is that it enthusiastically endorses the ideas that we are objectively better because we are free and that defensive violence is a natural prerogative of a free people. It’s easy to miss that point, because we’ve had two generations of generally progressive schoolteachers indoctrinating their pupils with the idea that the song is just about a flag.
    4 points
  2. George Floyd died on day 70 of that graph (near the low point of the graph). Protests began slowly two days later. The massive riots and things happened by day 75. Two weeks of incubation would take us to day 89. And that is right where the graph stops being flat and starts rising. DISCLAIMER: I don't know if there is a direct cause-effect relationship there. But I answered your question. And it does seem interesting.
    3 points
  3. Just_A_Guy

    So It Begins

    Differing uses of terminology haunt these sorts of discussions. —The term “racist” is now used to label those who point to cultural differences, not just purported biological/genetic ones. —“Abolitionism” as it existed in the 1830s was more than simply ending slavery—it was ending slavery through a very particular set of steps, and violence wasn’t off the table. One could be—as Key seems to have been—against slavery as an institution, while also opposing the methods embraced by the abolitionists of that era. Forcible abolition of slavery in the states where it already existed, only went mainstream in the US once the slave states had rebelled and instigated the Civil War—at which point the North basically figured “well, we have the band and the cake, so we may as well have the party”.
    2 points
  4. First I will make a disclaimer with my claimer. Science depends on solid metrics. Pseudo science loves statistics mixed with and cultivated through bias. I have attempted to obtain and properly analyze data from available metrics. I am not an expert in viruses or the medical field - but I am an expert in complex supply chain and automated material handling. I have learned that it is easy to develop "theories" that from all appearances explain the dynamics of a complex system. Sometimes such theories pan out but mostly they fail. A primary reason is because a critical parameter was not considered properly. @anatess2made an interesting observation with a focus on death rates. But I wonder if the metrics we have been given concerning death rates is accurate. For example - I am not sure if the death rate has properly analyzed the difference of dying of some other condition with COVID in the mix and dying uniquely because of COVID. But I think this is only part of the problem. How is COVID transmitted? How effective is wearing a mask - especially outdoors? What is the effect of ultraviolet rays on the virus? How much spread has been the result of asymptomatic infections? We are told that social distancing (and other precautions) may slow the spread (flatten the curve) but will not stop the spread. I am still confused why low risk individuals should social distance? The line is that they can spread the virus asymptomatically. I am not so sure. But even if that is the case if high risk individuals are taking proper percussion - what is really the science? In short - there is a lot a call to listen to the science. I am trying to be sure I am following science and not pseudo science. The Traveler
    2 points
  5. Vort

    So It Begins

    If everyone was "racist", then was anyone really racist? This is pure, unadulterated presentism. For a term like "racist" to have any meaning, there must be a viable alternative that people do not choose. What viable alternative to "racist" beliefs existed in 18th and 19th century America that were available to Americans and would justify calling them "racist"? Even abolitionists were "racist" by today's definition.
    2 points
  6. I was thinking on this yesterday after discussing it with individuals who both favored the church and those who were not as favorable when it struck me. In the past there have been comments made by prophets and apostles that were thought to be talking about their day, but (and they may or may not have even realized it when they said it) when you look back at it, they were basically in many ways a prophecy of what could happen if their statements were not taken seriously. Many of these ideas are considered backwards today or them talking as men, but when you actually look at what they said and what has happened, you see that their thoughts actually did predict exactly what has happened. One that I think on often was with Brigham Young. He basically told the saints not to sell their lands to those who were not saints or those who were not part of their society. If they did, he warned, it would bring in the wickedness of the world to influence Utah and the culture of the Saints. Looking at Utah today, especially Salt Lake City, I think that statement has been absolutely fulfilled. Salt Lake has many of the church monuments and history, but it seems the wickedness of the world resides there as well. Boyd K. Packer warned of far left liberalism in some ways, warning that it would bring troubles in the future if it were left to go unheeded. Today, I see that the very things he warned about are occurring around us. Ezra Taft Benson repeatedly warned against the dangers of Marxist Communism as well as the need to continually read the Book of Mormon for our own testimony. Today, I see many troubles regarding testimonies of those in the church and those falling away, and I see the effects of where we thought we won the Cold War (yes, we did), but in doing so, our defenses against Marxist/Stalinist Communism fell until today we see those openly promoting Marxist Communism around us and atheism it promotes on proud display everywhere we look and it's growing population in our free nations. Today, I see Elder Bednar is warning us of the dangers of government overreach in restricting our freedom of Religion. It strikes me that this may be seen as talking about our day (much like the things stated above were) but in many other ways, it could also be seen as a Great Warning about what is coming in the future. I do not know what we as Saints can do to stop such a future, but as things stand in the West currently, I can see a great tidal wave occurring where religious freedom and liberty are taken away in the name of protection or giving liberties to others. In otherwords, this could very much be as much a prophecy of warning, as much as it is talking about what is happening in the present.
    2 points
  7. Vort

    So It Begins

    I try hard not to feel that way. I imagine it's a sort of slap in God's face for the gift of life. But sometimes I really feel the wisdom of mortality.
    1 point
  8. pam

    So It Begins

    I have hated the thought of getting older and my life time running out. Now I'm kind of looking forward to it. Sad to say but it's how I feel these days.
    1 point
  9. If we consider freedom, liberty and justice - there is no way to believe such exists from empirical evidence. In order for such to even exist one would have to believe in the essence of a just and powerful G-d capable of correcting all the injustices that exists in such great abundance. My point here is that liberty, freedom and justice cannot be believed in or have any possibility of existing in a society without the belief in a just G-d. Without true religion there can be no freedom, liberty or justice. For this reason any oppressive society must oppose true religion. And as the sun rises in the east - true religion must oppose oppressive governments. And the great and most effective way is to believe in, have faith in and look to G-d for deliverance from bondage and oppression. The Traveler
    1 point
  10. Colorado reports both "dying with COVID" and "dying of COVID" numbers.
    1 point
  11. Vort

    So It Begins

    By today's definition of "racism", the above bolded part is false. God himself is a "racist", by the definition many use today. He created the races, after all. And since the races are demonstrably different, sometimes in performance as well as in appearance, that makes God racist. I have grown up and spent my whole life decrying racism and believing it to be a plague on our society. As a middle-aged man, I find my opinion changing. I think racism is a political construct. The things I have always considered to be racism can better be classified as hatefulness or stupidity. "Racism", as the term is widely used today, is a political fiction, an excuse to pass legislation and engage in societal deconstruction/reconstruction in a mostly dangerous and dishonest way. It plays off of people's noblest instincts to produce evil. Or does anyone here rationally and objectively accept that the proper response to "white privilege" is for white people to quit calling the police when they're being robbed?
    1 point
  12. . . . And the resultant lawsuits . . .
    1 point
  13. The common term we tend to use is "Cronyism" or "Crony capitalism". The latter is not really accurate. Cronyism is cronyism. It often exists under capitalist systems. It ALWAYS exists under socialist systems.
    1 point
  14. It would be interesting to be able to overlay this, on the same time scale, with some kind of graph that tracks the sizes and dates of the protests over the George Floyd killing.
    1 point
  15. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/10/attorney-general-barr-takes-aim-tech-signaling-broad-doj-review-antitrust-privacy-speech/ Again and again, we see that monopolies only exist because of governmental assistance.
    1 point
  16. mirkwood

    So It Begins

    I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left, for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished, thereby perpetrating a foul and corroding blot upon the fair fame of this great republic, the very thought of which would have caused the high-minded and patriotic framers of the Constitution of the United States to hide their faces with shame. ( Source: Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 302-03)
    1 point
  17. Vort

    Bubba Wallace

    [EDIT: Two hours later and having received more information in the form of a photograph of the noose—yes, it was actually a noose—I have rethought my position on this. My current opinion is almost 180 degrees different, but I'm leaving this here for context and as a reminder to myself of how fallible our initial judgments can be.] I find myself in agreement with anatess. We are commanded to forgive, even without apology, and we are explicitly commanded to forgive even our enemies if they repent toward us. So I cannot but believe that we are expected to do so in such a case. My problem is that such apologies lack any apparent element of sincerity. An apology should be given with the same forcefulness and vehemence as the original false accusation. Wallace's "apology" was, "Well, good thing I was wrong about this. Thank heavens it didn't actually occur. Oh, well, a little embarrassment is worth it to insure justice for all!" It's baloney. It's fake. The whole situation appears blown completely out of proportion. Someone tied a bowline at the end of a pull string a year ago, and as a result, a national scandal erupts. It was stupid for Wallace to make such reckless allegations, and it was of course far stupider for the lying press to blow it up into scandal territory. But did you see Wallace saying, "Hey, calm down, it was only a little noose, not an actual threat to life"? No. It was a "hate crime"! It required FBI intervention! It was a threat to society itself! And Wallace was actively fanning the flames, not seeking reconciliation or sanity, but only an ever greater outrage. Toward a bowline someone tied a year ago. Having thrown the public tantrum he did, Wallace should spend the next week doing the media circuit, saying that his big mouth created a scandal out of LITERALLY nothing, and that maybe this should be a lesson to others who might want to reflexively scream "Racism!" instead of actually look at what happened. Heck, if he would simply have stated, "I said something stupid. I was an idiot, and I admit it. Don't do the same thing I did", that would have been a great step forward. Instead, he indistinctly mumbles something about "embarrassment" (not "I am embarrassed and ashamed for my moronic, divisive reaction", and not even "I am embarrassed" at all, but just something along the lines of "It was worth the embarrassment") and then extols the virtue of the overreaction itself.No. It's baloney. There is not an ounce of sincerity in the wording of Wallace's non-apology. Yes, we should forgive him, because we risk losing our own souls to hatefulness and spite if we do not. This I freely admit. But don't tell me that Wallace apologized. He did no such thing. Not a modicum of contrition was on display. It's business as usual.
    1 point
  18. Queolby does not engage in conversation, ever. Go back and check his posting history. He raises what he apparently sees as "controversial" topics, often disguised as "investigator questions" or "someone asked me this online," then sits back to enjoy the show. This thread continues that pattern. In my opinion, the mods should resolve this problem once and for all.
    1 point
  19. Woooooh there buddy. Even the king of 'bad' suits up in his COVID mask before grocery shopping.
    0 points
  20. Very well. For the sake of obnoxious and sheer trollery, I shall hereafter refer to the rising COVID rates as the “BLM Bump”.
    0 points
  21. Carborendum

    So It Begins

    Please take the time to read the following article. https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/they-want-to-get-rid-of-the-star-spangled-banner-as-the-national-anthem/
    0 points