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In our ward and stake we actually don't have this problem, but the opposite (at least as far as youth/parents report it to their Bishops). Pre-marital sex is way down amongst heterosexual youth. The only ones that seem to be engaging in sex are those that claim to be gay. Our straight boys have 2 main problems - pornography, and slothfulness. All they do is watch anime and porn, and play video games. Zero ambition to do anything with their lives. The girls have more problems surrounding mental health and abuse of various kinds - depression, anxiety, alcohol, drugs, cutting, etc... Porn use amongst young women is also rising. The number of youth in our stake/area going on dates, and even interacting with the opposite sex, is falling. A counselor in our Stake Presidency is a High School principal, and he has said over the last 5-6 years that attendance at school dances has dropped off significantly. Our priests quorum has 14 relatively active boys, and only 2 of them have ever been on a date. The world is not teaching our youth the proper fundamentals of interacting with the opposite sex...it is teaching the exact opposite of what should be done. Women are taught that men and the patriarchy are dangerous and abusive, and will hold them back; and men are taught that women are a useless waste of time and money.

Funerals are not for the dead, but for the living. Though it is but an instant compared to the eternities, as we cannot remember the eternities, it seems an awfully long time for us when we are separated from loved ones by death. We feel grief because we will miss them. They are gone from our lives for the moment, and so most of us (I suppose there are some that can talk to those beyond the grave, such as perhaps the prophet) will not be seeing them for some time. They have gone away for a while and we will no longer see them, and so our grief is because we will miss them in our lives as we know it.

My 7 year old daughter is .... well 7 and impatient. She hysterically sobs when we leave Grandma's house like they'll never ever see each other again. I'm sad when we have to leave too, even though I don't sob and understand the bigger picture. I do like being at my folks' house and having them right there in-person. When somebody finishes their mortal journey,. people are sad that they no longer are right there in-person. That's just natural- we like seeing our loved ones and hanging out. Yes, we Saints know that we'll see them again and have that bigger picture, which greatly alleviates the bigger picture sadness. But it doesn't mean we can't also be temporality sad in the moment of loss.

Although this is off topic, I was in a meeting once with the Presiding Bishop of the church. He made the remark that the real reason for 401k/retirement plans being introduced in the world was so that in "retirement" individuals and couples would be able to serve in temples and as missionaries while still relatively young. The Lord was providing His servants with additional opportunities to help each other. Church leaders feel sorrow that so few choose to serve missions in retirement, and instead choose to travel the world, go on cruises, buy new cars for no reason, and waste their wealth in riotous living. So may aspects of our lives are so easy compared to the tens of billions of people who lived on the earth before us, and even billions more currently living on it. How do we choose to thank the Lord for what He has given us? Do we freely give of ourselves, or just build bigger barns?

They absolutely exist. I have looked them in the eye on a number of occasions. It absolutely exists. I have looked it in the eye on a number of occasions.

Then conversation is pretty much impossible. You refuse to acknowledge the existence of people of ill intent. You have bought into the idea that no one is really bad, just misguided. Evil doesn't really exist. And no one should ever, ever, ever feel bad about himself, not for any reason. He just murdered his girlfriend and ate her? Just some bad choices. Shame is, by definition, what a healthy person feels when he does something shameful. So unless you're saying that nothing is shameful, your rejection of shame makes no sense. Word games and shifting definitions do not change the reality of things.

Why do many parents cry when they send there kids off on mission? Its not like the kids are dying... they are just going away for awhile. Yet we have no problem with that. We don't question its appropriateness. We recognize that change can be hard, and that there is some loss, if only temporary. Death is change... Death is loss, even if only temporary one. Its ok and even acceptable to grieve and mourn when this happens. The fact that we believe in a glorious reunion.. does mean we do not have a loss and its related pain now.

What sin are your referring to? Maybe I missed that part of the speech? All I saw was someone who introduced herself as a YW President, a daughter, a sister, a returned missionary, a person who loves to go to the Temple and a queer. "And above all of this, a daughter of heavenly parents who strives every day to be a disciple of Christ".

On the subject people going through with some pretty painful stuff to make them feel right. Take transgenderism... currently it is in vogue and completely acceptable to have a sexual reassignment surgery if a person thinks it might make them feel better or "more true" to themselves and what they want to be. The science is still very much influx on the results of this. Any rational assessment has to find sexual reassignment surgery, is just as barbaric as "Zap away the Gay." The only difference is zapping started first and triggers the outrage of the Left, whereas sex change is the darling of the Left and they try to cancel anything that they disagree with including challenging their darlings.

@scottyg To be fair, as a young man in Catholic school we were lectured to quite frequently that we were sinful, lecherous, lazy, immature...while women were virtuous, mannerly, pure, wonderful...it got old. It also got a little silly, if I’m being honest. We’d make jokes about it, even the girls would. The staff and church leadership at the school was too (Naive? Clueless? Politically correct? Stupid?) to see that girls would tease one another into eating disorders and also pressure the boys for sexual activity. No, I have no idea how LDS teach their kids simply because I’m not a parent. But, if you constantly tell me how bad I am don’t be shocked when I act that way. After all, I’m just doing what you said and what you expect. So....

Sure. That doesn't mean it's always wrong to feel like you've been bad. Sometimes you have been bad. That should be recognized and acknowledged. I realize my attempts at silly humor don't always come across as such. My comment above was meant humorously, not cuttingly. The "extreme examples" are there because I want to point out a fundamental flaw in the thinking. If you just redefine away problems and state that thus-and-such condition does not exist because you refuse to acknowledge the wording, you haven't actually solved any problems. You're just playing word games. If "bad man" has no meaning, then what we're really doing is reassigning the meaning of "bad man" to something else, like "man who makes bad choices and ends up doing horrific things" or "poor, messed-up guy who takes pleasure in inflicting pain". How is that any better than simply saying "bad man"?

Dude, I even admitted that there was a semantics issue. I'll repeat my question. Can you see a difference between feeling bad about doing something bad and feeling like you are bad? You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. You pick one piece of my post, come up with extreme examples and extrapolate conclusions. These are the types of responses that make this forum a less-than-welcoming place sometimes. Thanks for all the fish.

No, because the word "agree" has no meaning. There is no such thing as agreement. Also, "something" doesn't really exist.

Gallup Poll - 2/24/21 QUESTION: I know what some Church leaders think, but I wonder what you think... is this self-identification a learned behavior, perpetuated by people trying to 'normalize' it OR is God simply sending more non-heterosexual individuals to earth in these latter generations? SIDE NOTE: Currently Gallup says 1 in 6 adults of Generation Z identify as LGBT now. If it is a learned behavior, what will the percentage be of LGBT for Generation Alpha, Beta, etc. at this pace? If it is a learned behavior, what happens to the LDS % of LGBT every time someone in authority in the Church tries to cast it in a positive light or normalize it?

You may be right. I have thought about this topic quite a bit over the years. I have often wondered if maybe we should be willing to openly discuss anything and everything that we struggle with. But somehow, I can't make sense of the idea. "I have some weaknesses that I'm trying to overcome:" "I'm really attracted to Doug's wife. She's totally hot. I think constantly about undressing her." "I'm really attracted to Doug's daughter, even though she's only six years old. [etc]" "I hate conservatives/homosexuals/black people/white men/Mormons. I just can't stand them. If I could, I would like to destroy them all." "I'm just so jealous of Bob and Sue and their rich house and cars. I'd love to burn that stuff to the ground, with them inside." "Truth is, I think my wife is a harridan. Not only would I not marry her if I could do it over again, I would secretly campaign against her so that her life would be as miserable as I think it ought to be." What do you suppose the societal response would be to such proclamations? What SHOULD the societal response be? "Thank you for sharing! That's so brave of you!"? Do you think that shame about such impulses is appropriate? Do you think people feeling ashamed of such thoughts and feelings might be a motivator for them NOT to act on those ideas? If we did away with the shame attached to such ideas, what do you think would be the result? On rational analysis, I always conclude that we're much, much better off with shame than we would be without. If you have a counterargument, I'd love to hear it.

My youngest son is still involved in Scouting and (as of this moment) still intending to earn his Eagle rank, as his brothers did. Scouting on the troop level, even on the district level, can be much different (better) than Scouting on the council or national level. Sadly, as goes the national organization, so go the local troops.

But we are.

I've had my share of funerals. Both parents, my best friend, some random relatives and acquaintances. Plus, I'm the guy in my ward who makes the youtube video of the funeral services during covid. It's sad because we won't have them with us for a time. I suppose you could call us selfish, but yeah, all of the benefits people have from having loved ones close, go away when they are far. My favorite parts of funerals are the dramatic retellings of the treasured foibles and follies of the departed person. More than half of the funerals I've been to, have people laughing through their tears.

I personally am not sad when anyone dies; not one bit. In fact, I look forward to my own death in a way. I often wondered when I was younger if the faith and testimony of others was weak because they allowed death to shake them so seriously. My uncle is a counselor in a stake presidency, and has great faith...yet hates talking about death because it causes him so much grief and anxiety...and I do not know why because he won't talk about it. At funerals he just keeps to himself as he is on an emotional edge. I have been around a fair amount of death however, and we all process things differently I guess. I have been told several times that I am insensitive for talking about death, and for not seeming to care when friends, or family members die. Of course I will miss being around and spending time with them, but the time we will be apart is really just a blip on the map. A child losing a parent is sad to me because their life will be harder for a time, but kids are resilient, and many come out on top. They will see such parent again, and if sealed, they will remain a family beyond the grave. My opinion of the Lazarus story is that Christ wept because He felt sadness from how much despair those around Him were feeling. It hurt Him to see others hurting.

Yeah, context is important. "For a long time, I felt that recognizing who I am, made me broken. I was ashamed of saying it out loud. I had always had those feelings, but it took me about 20 years to look at myself in the mirror and say it out loud. But now I know that I'm not broken. I am perfect the way I am." This woman is not "struggling with her sin". She is struggling with her feelings/orientation. And we all know that feelings/orientation is not the same thing as behaviors, right? So yes, all fall short of the glory of God and all are broken, and yes, she said "I am not broken". You get the obvious context, right? She felt like she was built wrong by her creator, and it took her decades to realize that wasn't the case. I guess, do we believe her? Do we clutch to the belief that if you feel gay, it is because you have sinned? Do we reject the notion that God makes gay people, and instead only experiences/behaviors/upbringings make gay people? I mean, yes, I've spent most of my adult life very resistant to the notion that God might make someone gay. Over the last couple years of watching what the church is doing, has me questioning that. I sure have no problem believing God makes some people mentally ill, even criminally violently mentally ill. Or more susceptible to alcoholism. I believe some folks with serious psychoses are built, through no fault of their own, unable to feel the spirit or the light of Christ. But yeah, this one's a tougie.

I know a person in high school that is experiencing a lot of depression and social anxiety. She is always down on herself and only speaks ill of herself. She talks about how she has no friends, she is overweight, and no one likes her. Also, perhaps unsurprisingly, she doesn't take care of herself physically, will do nearly anything for attention (even up to lying). She often inserts herself into conversations in inappropriate matters. The things she complains about are all self-induced. Her depression would be eased greatly if she started taking care of herself, stopped demanding attention, and stopped lying. She confided with my wife a few months ago that she thinks she is Lesbian (which is likely just a byproduct of either wanting attention or wanting to blame her struggles on something else). Naturally, I want to just grab her, shake her around, and demand she takes responsibility for these feelings. Realize God had a higher calling for you and she needs to realize her higher sense of duty. She needs To get over herself, get over her pride, stop demanding everyone's attention and love, and start taking care of herself physically... But being a high school girl... I don't know that that would go over well. I have seen this with many people experiencing depression and anxiety. a few times I have done what I have said above and it hasn't done much. On one such occasion, I was just met with tears and further stress. What is there to do? Is this just a byproduct of today's society, and if so, how do we fix it once it has hit someone? Is the best course of action to have a higher expectation of such people? Is the only thing to do is tell them we love them? I feel like that doesn't do anything, depression isn't cured by people loving you, it is cured by getting over it yourself. Was depression such a big deal in generations prior to millennial? I have only experienced depression and anxiety for a short period on my mission. But I quickly realized that it was all me and within 3 months I was fine. This whole thing about depression frustrates me. Mostly because, like women's rights, I am not allowed to talk about it because I haven't experienced it... or something like that. I don't believe therapy is the best fix, and I don't think a pill is the best fix either. It is a fact (or as many call it, "my personal opinion") that depression and anxiety is at least started by pride. They feel they need to be the best or that unless they say something worthwhile or impressive, they aren't worth hearing (which is just a reflection on how they see others).

When I was Depressed, that would be Po-tay-to and Po-tah-to.

For me, part of therapy for depression / life improvement was learning more social cues and what were accepted options at various points. I'm not neurotypical, and this type of stuff doesn't remotely come naturally to me. One simple example: I prefer to work hard then play hard. During my first year of college, all of my classes/responsibilities were essentially loaded into 2 days a week, wherein I would start class a 7 AM and finish at 8 PM, with only a 30 minute lunch break in the middle. This was actually a awesome schedule for me. During that 30 minute break, my introverted self REALLY needed just 30 minutes of rest/alone time to recharge. However, almost always some well meaning BYUI Samaritan would see the girl sitting in the corner by herself and come join me-- totally killing my recharge time!!! Hence I was perpetually exhausted and actively resentful to all of these well meaning people, further fueling my depression and isolation. Now, with some more social education, I'm aware that one line would have solved so many issues: "hey, thanks for thinking of me. However lunch is my 'me time' amongst my busy schedule and I really would appreciate just having some alone time to rest". Problem completely solved!

Simple: If the President/Congress are of your political party, they're only doing it to protect the rest of the population. If the President/Congress are of the opposing political party, they're obviously bringing down the yoke of oppression upon us to lead us into a dictatorship.

@Fether, I can't speak for the young person you know. But I can speak from my own different experience with depression (warning, this is heavy stuff). My depression was the result of severe childhood abuse. I grew up honestly believing that I was a "monster that needs to be killed to protect people". It didn't matter how often the YW theme or other "You are of great worth to God" things were recited- it's like there was a plexiglass wall separating those statements from me. This had nothing to do with pride or seeking attention or not taking responsibility. In fact, took way way too much responsibility-- fighting terrible battles as a solo elementary kid. I worked extremely hard to make sure nobody found out about my secret war-- thinking that others couldn't be trusted and this would just hurt them. I was sure that if I tried hard enough, I could conquer this by myself. I was so so so wrong. When I finally did relent to open up and get therapy... it made a world of difference. Demons that I had struggled with in secret for decades... suddenly I had tools and guidance on how to really beat them. I was able to learn tools to truly take care of myself. I was able to forgive myself for perceived wrongs and honestly start feeling the love of Christ. As to what to do with your young friend: there are indeed tools out there to help her. Let her know where they are, let her know that you love her & you're there-- love her as the Savior loves her, truly taking the time to understand. And then pray. Often darkness comes before light, so I make no promises of instant turnarounds, but that is the start.

We have to understand that depression comes from a variety of causes. And we have a lot of difficulty determining which cause someone suffers from. The common practice today seems to be: regardless of the cause, medication is the answer. For those who suffer on a physical, chemical level, the right medication certainly is the answer. But if the cause is something else, medication has limited application. How are we to know? I would think that the patient and those who know and live him most (advised by keen minds of experts) would be the best judge of how to proceed. And we also have to understand that, regardless of the cause, sometimes it is not within our current medical capabilities to change. Sometimes, it isn't about "fixing it". It is just about loving someone as much as possible. We pray. And we hope for the best. That is pretty much all my wife did*. I haven't had a suicidal thought in a few years. I don't think it is "cured". But it is a bit like being a recovering alcoholic. I've been sober for years. But I can still feel it nipping at my mind. I've just gotten very good at managing it. * After living with this for all my life, I realize that my personal issues were not biological. So results may vary.

Agreed. And in some cases it's a combination of both where they don't recognize their actual problems, but use a false/self diagnosis of a different problem as a crutch to avoid some uncomfortable challenges and responsibilities of life. Unfortunately our society, our mental health support services, social services, and our Church are not equipped to deal with even a fraction of the mental illness and addiction needs out there. Temporary help abounds, but under the guise of maintaining their "freedom" we often end up creating more problems in the long run than we are solving IMHO.

While I feel very sorrowful over your situation, I'm not sure what it as to do with the OP. The behavior you describe is reprehensible. And it should not be tolerated in an LDS Church. I believe Elder Bednar was saying something about this in some more affluent stakes that he visited. It also causes those "elitists" to be so materialistic that they don't want to leave their Lamborghini to go on a mission. I simply cannot fathom what kind of mindset would think that way, nor can I perceive of the cognitive disconnect between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that same attitude. What I can say is that I've felt that my family has felt both wide acceptance and severe ostracizing in different wards in my life. But we've toughed out the hard times and appreciated the good times.

I’m sorry you had to deal with that. It’s a heartbreaking and frankly, unchristian thing to say to someone. Shows a chilling lack of empathy.

I've had good personal experience with both therapy and medication when dealing with clinically diagnosed depression. For myself, I'd be much more inclined to listen to someone who comes to me gently, with love than someone who tells me to get over it. I don't know how many times I've heard of depressed people being told to just be happy, just get over it. I do know that I have never heard of it working.

The easiest way to get rich is to, of course, make a lot of money. The best way however is to save the money you make. Those are the people that are more likely to stay rich. We love thrift stores and still peruse the DI every now and then. I guess once I get a better job I can move up to Walmart. There are several very "well off" families in our ward. Multiple luxury cars and ATV's, boats, unnecessarily large homes, luxury clothing and jewelry, frequent lavish vacations, etc... Yet because we are wise with our money and don't spend unnecessarily, I am sure I have a higher net worth then they do. I know one family in particular that is over 1 million in debt, yet refuse to curb their spending. There are plenty of examples in scripture detailing how the Lord feels about the rich who are vain vs poor/humble people. This is a hard concept for children to understand and accept though as their minds are typically focused on the here and now, and material things. There is also a very wealthy man 2 streets down from me who only drives used cars, doesn't buy new clothing until his old clothes wear out, and their home is not grandiose in any way. He has paid for several members of our ward to serve missions...and almost no one knows about his charity. Very few know how successful he is given the lack of pomp in his appearance. The Lord doesn't care how much money you make...He only cares about what you do with it. I believe for some on this earth, that is a part of their test. Some are born into a life of luxury, and others poverty. Some are blessed with money, and others have many financial disasters befall them that are out of their control. How will each of them choose to react to their temporal blessings or shortcomings?

After many years of pondering I've come to believe that Christ's yoke was His Atonement. It was something only He could do. Hence, I interpret this verse to mean that if I will take His Atonement upon myself (i.e. change and seek forgiveness), and learn of His love for me, that I will indeed find rest for my soul. And I have, many times. He freely forgives, so His yoke and burden have been easy and light for me. Along your thought-line above, I would say that in my life things have been far easier when I have kept the commandments without hesitation or concern, than when I did not. Life is hard. But when I have striven to faithfully follow the Lord's plan for me, those difficulties have seemed to melt away as either unimportant or unworthy of more of my time and concern. Good luck on your talk!

It still is. If we could view many of our human faults through the lens of empathy and understanding that mental illness requires, we would find our life ministering efforts more effective and our character more godly and charitable.

One of the Little House books by Laura Ingalls Wilder, written in the '30's about her childhood in the 1800's, gives a very descriptive account of depression. Young Laura turns 14, and is shipped off to another town to teach school. She lives with a couple, and the description of the wife just screams depression. Poor Laura listens through a blanket, to them fight through the night, recounts all the things the wife says. It's a two room cabin. It ends with an intense fight where the wife grabs a knife and tries to kill herself, and the husband has to wrestle it away from her. The next morning, everybody sits and has breakfast at the table like nothing ever happened. No, it wasn't "such a big deal" - it was misunderstood, undiagnosed, and ignored. People figured out how to resolve it, live with it, or succumb to it in ways that brought shame to the whole family. Good reading: Myths about Mental Illness By Elder Alexander B. Morrison Of the Seventy

My 2cents - Help kids understand that in spiritual things we are all equally capable. It is only in temporal things that unfairness is the rule. Help them learn from God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. His Spirit and Wisdom is available to all without cost or prejudice. This talk is one of my favorites to help people understand these principles better: Stand Forever: Lawrence E. Corbridge, BYU Speeches Last of all, I learned the virtues of thrift store shopping as an early teen. It made my meager teenage paychecks go a lot further. Later, when I was dating my wife she complemented a piece of clothing I was wearing and when I told her what a deal I scored at the thrift store on it she recoiled and said "Ew!" But I promised her a life of poverty and I've delivered, so she is an avid thrift store shopper now too 👍

Careful, Jamie. You're getting into treacherous territory. This is a very twisted characterization of what actually happened. 1) This was done at MANY institutions all over the country. 2) This was a "study" done by many research facilities (including higher learning facilitites) all over the country. So, if you're going to characterize BYU based on this, then do so to the entire United States (and some other countries as well, including your own). 3) It was done with the common wisdom at the time. And they followed all the nationally sanctioned methods of research. BACKGROUND: This was done in the 1970s. We were just getting comfortable with the idea that this was a "real thing". The medical wisdom of the time categorized homosexuality as a mental disorder. And electroshock therapy was emerging as a promising method of "aversion therapy." Many methods of aversion therapy were studied. Electic shock was only one such method studied. AND homosexuality was only ONE trait that was in a long list of test traits for their subjects. All volunteer subjects were told exactly what they would be getting into and why and the theories behind it. And they could choose to leave the study at any time. Also understand that the shock used in these experiments are nowhere near as dramatic as those that are horrifically depicted/maligned on large and small screens. They were a mild "reminder" basically. Such research has produced some modern treatments (using MILD electric shock) to change people's behaviors. Damond John of Shark Tank credits such therapy for his quitting smoking. So, before you make such a slanderous statement, get all the facts.

To be fair, a large minority (or, at this point, maybe even a slight majority) of LDS under 40 wouldn’t care. Offline and face to face, people tend to be much more polite and less blunt/confrontational. So even if someone did care, they’d either be quiet about it or, much more likely, they’d open their mouth, and be called out for their behavior by other members. LDS are usually extremely polite, Rudeness or any kind wouldn’t be tolerated.

Mormons are in a little bit of a different situation, simply because our theology doesn’t really condemn *anyone* to “hell” in the sense of “eternal, unending burnings”. So our theology doesn’t really require us to emotionally “write off” sinners the way some other denominations might (although culturally, many of us have sometimes felt as though we ought to—particularly when we go overboard into the completely unscriptural “but unsealed families will never be together ever again!” nonsense). That said: yes, the more we are thrust into close proximity with any kind of “sinful” behavior, the more normal it’s going to seem; and the more we are going to have to look at the disconnect that arises whenever we think “he seems like a nice guy, except for . . .” and really scrutinize what we believe.

Oh, I'm not interested in celebrating anyone's bravery. For me, the interesting stuff is in watching everyone's reaction to the video. And the body language of the sister who introduced her. I'm not lead to believe anything of the sort. The girl is hardly the first youth put in front of an audience and praised up one side and down the other for how unique and special they are. But it's obvious that the gut reaction of many is: Different sexual orientation = automatically suspected of sexual sin. I remember back in the '80's, when it was standard practice for bishops to ask teen boys if they play with themselves. Then there were stories along the lines of "it was the first time I'd ever thought about such a thing, and I ended up playing with myself as a result". These days, we don't ask. I wonder - whenever we see a teen boy these days, blessing the sacrament, doing a calling, going on a mission, do we automatically think "I don't hear anyone clarifying if they've broken the law of chastity with self-harm, so I'm led to believe the kid has a problem."? Is it truly that hard to just listen to a gay girl's experiences, give her a big hug, and not get weirded out about the whole thing? Obviously the answer is yes, but the follow up question is obvious. SHOULD it be?

just listened to it. She was VERY vague about the lifestyle she was living, and so think that would be an important if we are going to support and celebrate her and her bravery in coming up. She spoke about leaders not asking what she was doing, but asking essentially “do you believe in Christ” and how that was a better way of approaching it... but how else do leaders judge whether she is worthy of a temple recommend. If she truly is worthy, then she had be utmost respect. If she used the rhetoric used in this talk to get her bishop to give her a recommend, I would be heavily disappointed. The way she talked about being LGBTQ and the fact no one came out and clarified whether she was living a temple worthy life or not leads me to believe she isn’t. The whole thing is frustrating

That’s awesome. And imitation is the highest form of flattery, so thank you. :: takes a bow ::

The sister's words: While she made sure to use the kindest most diplomatic words possible (and I honestly give her credit for that effort) it still expresses that she has been the victim of intolerant people. i.e., she has been hurt by intolerant people in the Church. And that is what you were asking about.

Literally no one despises anti vaxxers more than I do, but to be fair, I’m not sure that refusing the Covid shot makes you one of them. On second thought though, it can be a red flag. Like those people who say “I’m not a racist.....” then start using slurs. Maybe you are right, I guess.

So, it looks like I don't need a vaccination after all. I just had COVID for about 12 hours. That was really weird. Yes, yes, I was probably contagious during the incubation period. But it's over now. My wife had some symptoms like a cold or flu. But it was not really like a cold or flu. It was different. Not that it was more severe, but just weird. She was hoping to get over it, but when it continued, she called some relatives who were scheduled to visit to warn them that she was ill and they might want to stay home after all. They asked what the symptoms were. The SIL said it was COVID. They were not worried since their whole household had already had it. So, they came to visit anyway. The day before they arrived, I came down with the same symptoms. And I really understood what my wife meant when she said that they were the same symptoms, but they were just a "weird" form of it. I took some home remedies (including lots of fluids). I wrapped up in a warm blanket, and I slept longer than I usually do. I was fine the next morning. My wife is still ill. But she's on the downhill slope. She's a lot better today. But still a slight fever and some general low energy. She'll probably skip church tomorrow. I'm going to call the bishop to see if the rest of the family ought to stay home as well. The bishop is a doctor.

One of my frustrations of this whole lgbtq acceptance in the church is that in one setting they will say “feeling homosexual feelings is not a sin. Acting in it is”. In other settings they will invite lgbtq members to talk about and share about the pride of being a member of the lgbtq community. But they will never put those two conversations in the same sitting. Maybe this situation is different (I haven’t watched it yet), but in my experience, in (unofficial) church settings where they are seemingly “celebrating” lgbtq, they never make the clarification whether we are celebrating members for their strength in choosing to live the gospel despite their nature, or whether we are celebrating the fact that this person is reveling by having gay sex in a religion that is against it. Here is where I stand: - People have homosexual feelings as well as feelings of being the wrong gender - In recent years (and still today on the cultural level), members of the LGBTQ community have been attacked and insulted widely. It’s been widely accepted that they were a free punching bag. this is wrong. - We must to change how we treat the LGBTQ community if we can spect to be “Christlike”. - homosexual acts are sinful. Gender is an eternal and essential principle - Admitting allowed to yourself and others is therapeutic. I can see how identifying as a member of the LGBTQ community can be beneficial. - One can identify to be a part of the community does not necessarily mean they are “acting” in the feelings. They just find community among other in their same situation. And though I don’t necessarily agree (nor full disagree), celebrating the nature of your feelings can help brush away the depression and other trials that come with living the gospel and being an LGBTQ member. - I do wish they would clarify what exactly we are celebrating at unofficial church events. Are we trying to make a less toxic community for the LGBTQ, or are we celebrating the sin? At least clarify that identifying as LGBTQ doesn’t mean you act on it. Failing to do this is sending the wrong message every time.

A cynic might reduce your post to: ”This was PR. Our fundamental definitions of sin, and behavioral expectations, will remain unchanged.” The question is: will any of our critics buy our rhetoric of unconditional love to LGBTQ members, when bishops on an individual level continue to expect conformance to the law of chastity and impose membership restrictions on folks who flout it? This isn’t a problem limited to LGBTQ members, really—fundamentally, the Church has a growing issue with people who don’t operate from a place of faith or repentance and who continually screech “You won’t let me have what I want (especially in matters of sex), so you don’t wuuuuuv me enough!!!” Whatever the sexual orientation of the parties involved, drama queenery and weaponized compassion are poisonous to a Zion community. Because Church members are, after all, only human; and at some point they’re going to get tired of putting up with the crap that continues to emanate from someone who is pretty obviously acting in bad faith.

@NeuroTypical, thank you. Your response was incredibly insightful. You, my friend, just showed all of us what Christlike empathy and understanding is all about.

I thought about this quite a bit yesterday. Whenever Vort and I are on the different sides of something, it's quite a tragedy, because, well, one of us is not on the right side. Some random thoughts I had: - I go out of my way to know/interact with/maintain friendships with people from the other side of a lot of different fences. God says Love thy enemy and love thy neighbor. Sun Tzu says know thy enemy. Gift shops in the desert sell bumper stickers that say "Before you judge somebody, walk a mile in their shoes" (and so does Elder Oaks). Corporate leadership seminars say "seek first to understand, then to be understood". From where I'm standing, all these points of data make a beautiful line. - When it comes to the effectiveness of our attempts to share the gospel, people's existing opinions about us have an impact. And I cannot understate how much animosity, mistrust, and incorrect beliefs people have about the church, its teachings, and its members. I personally know two families who were so ticked off at our announcement to not baptize children in same-sex households, they all submitted their resignations within an hour of hearing the news. An inactive daughter of a gay dad called him up in tears, thinking she had just been kicked out of a church she only had negative thoughts about. I've probably heard from 20-30 gay folk who either assume, or spend hours arguing the notion, that you simply can't be LDS and have same sex attraction issues. I rarely go a day without seeing some random social media comment about how mormons hate gays, force their children into harmful electronic shock treatments to make them straight, kick out and disown their children who come out of the closet, give endless millions of tithing money to lobby to remove LGBT rights, etc. In many places, the going notion is that mormons and gays don't mix, and it's harmful to try. - Generational shifting showed up one day while we weren't paying attention. The old apologetic wars about our history and doctrine were all won, like 20 years ago. The new apologetic wars are all about perception. Every year that goes by, we find greater differences in thinking between those born before the turn of the century, and those born after. People 30 and younger think about us, not in terms of Joe Smith and his gold bible, but in terms of what kind of people we are, how we treat our neighbors, whether we're woke enough or not. (In context, advocates of wokeness think they value diversity and love and inclusion.) - LDS are all about love, diversity, and inclusion. The gospel pavilion is wide and covers all. The Lord "inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God". Most of us detest the term, but we were woke before woke was cool. But how can you expect a random person to accept that invitation, when it comes from someone who [insert all that false crap people believe about us and gays]. - Main point - That sister's appearance isn't about redefining the gospel. It isn't a message for the 99, it's a message for all the ones out there. It's about correcting the misconceptions and falsehoods about how we hate gays, and kick them out, and try to pray the gay away, and electroshock straightness into them. This particular targeted message isn't emphasizing the need for repentance. With this particular targeted message, we're emphasizing that no really, the church and it's members don't preach against you because of your leanings/tendencies/urges/thoughs/orientations. It's not the full message - just a portion. For a specific purpose. You can be attracted to anything (yes, Vort, even dogs and children), and there is a place for you in the Lord's kingdom, if you are willing to do your part. You can be valued and treated like anyone else. You've been misinformed - it isn't like this:

A somber warning given by Elder Quentin L. Cook back in 2008 as the Church actively fought to keep marriage between a man and a woman - only. Welcome to 2021 my friends. A time where members of the Church, a mere 13 years later, now label other members of Church who don't cater to the LGBTQ community as being intolerant, behind the times and unloving to all of "God's children".

Vort, one random thought to chew on: "Do your best" was neither the first nor the second great commandment as taught by Yeshua-bin-Yusuf. "Do your best" is simply a practical, Mormon compromise between the "all-you-need-is-love" hedonism taught by the Nicolaitans and their ideological progeny, and the dead-works legalism taught by some Pharisees and their latter-day followers. But the core questions are, how much do we love Christ (and our fellow man) and how has that charity developed over the course of our lives. I firmly believe that if I can get Moroni 7/1 Corinthians 13 through my thick skull, everything else will fall into place. You keep on obeying the commandments and doing your church assignments; but you do it--as C.S. Lewis said--"in a new way, a less worried way".