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All great points. Agree totally, once again. From what I’ve read (and I am no expert, so again @Vort call me out if I’m wrong) nuclear is actually much cleaner than most other power sources we have now!

Last I saw (and I have no source for this), it requires something like eight times more energy to extract uranium from seawater than the electricity that uranium could generate. I know the Hanford area in my state (WA) is researching more efficient methods of seawater extraction of uranium. I don't know, maybe it will come to something eventually. Let's hope.

100% correct. One of my dearest friends is a democrats democrat. We make a bet on baseball every year and the loser donates to the DNC or the Ayn Rand institute. I’ve sent him books on various conservative values and while doesn’t agree, he always learns something. In fact, he changed his mind on a few issues thanks our conversations over the last 20+ years. :: sigh :: Except for nuclear power. He’s stuck in the 70’s mind frame where he thinks it's incredibly dangerous and should be banned forever.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-announce-scientific-breakthrough-fusion-energy-sources-2022-12-12/ Fingers crossed.

"Respect for Marriage Act" was signed into law today. This will not lead to good things. The rot inside this country continues to get worse. I believe it will get better eventually but things will get a lot worse before they better. We have a long and dark night to go through in America before the morning arrives.

This right here is a big clue that this process is massively inefficient.

(See tl;dr at the bottom if you don't want to read this whole thing.) Not quite. The laws of thermodynamics limit the efficiency of conversion of heat into motion to (Thigh - Tlow) / Thigh. If we could somehow make our exhaust temperature Tlow to be absolute zero (0 K, -273.15° C, or -459.67° F), we could have 100% efficiency! Alas, that will never happen. Water, our working fluid in pretty much all turbine generators, freezes at 273.15 K (0° C or 32° F). Lower than this, the solid ice makes it hard to pump around or otherwise be useful as a working fluid. In fact, the ideal Tlow for a working fluid is just below its melting point, which for water is 373.15 K (100° C or 212° F). So let's use 373 K as our Tlow (which is silly, because it's just barely below boiling, but let's pretend). A quick Google search reveals this source, which says: "The highest inlet steam temperature currently applied to actual supercritical pressure and USC steam turbines, is between 566°C and 620°C." Using the higher value, 620°C (about 893 K), as our Thigh, our theoretical best possible efficiency on electricity generation is (Thigh - Tlow) / Thigh = (893 K - 373 K) / (893 K) = 520 / 893 = 58.2% This is our absolute maximum mathematically allowed efficiency on our electricity generation. Of course, my numbers are simply unrealistic for real operating conditions, and we have not even tried to include the numerous other energy vampires that will decrease our efficiency. Heat engine efficiencies much above about 50% are exceedingly rare and usually involve carefully curated lab setup conditions. In actual practice, if a heat engine reaches better than 40% efficiency, that's considered good. So what kind of efficiency can we expect for energy production based on the above laser-driven fusion experiment? Well, what kind of efficiency does it produce? That's easily calculated: (3.15 MJ)/(2.05 MJ) = just under 154% In other words, for every 100 joules of energy we put into the system, we get out 154 joules of heat. Now we have to turn that heat into usable energy. As we calculated above, we can do that with a best-possible-case scenario of 58.2%. So our net yield is (1.54)(0.582) = 0.896 That means 89.6 joules out for every 100 joules in. As Scooby Doo would say, ruh roh. According to this, our absolute best-case scenario involves us initially putting 100 joules of electrical energy into the process to get back out...less than 90 joules of electrical energy. At a bare minimum not counting the inefficiency of the lasers (which may have an efficiency of 10% or so), we're still losing energy to this fusion process. Best case, folks. Best case. tl;dr Fusion efficiency will need to be well over 150% to make it a viable commercial path to energy generation. Maybe more like 10,000%, just for starters.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/30/1119904819/nuclear-power-environmentalists-california-germany-japan https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-activists-who-embrace-nuclear-power Even though I think we’re correct and way too many on the left are against it for the wrong reasons, hopefully it’s changing. NPR and The Yorker are not part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/granite-countertops-and-radiation#aboutgranite You can mine radioactive materials from many kitchens in the USA.

Oh yeah! Great show. The human errors were so over the top. Even a rock can be a deadly tool if an ignoramus is using it. I loved the scene when they almost flew over the reactor. The heroism and sacrifice of the miners. And the fact that many of the exposed personnel and family members survived without serious consequence. The concrete and steel encasement shielding the reactor is pretty impressive as well.

Ever see the show Chernobyl? Not a bad show (a bit graphic and embellished at times) but I feel that it was made in part to encourage people to hate and fear nuclear power. That could just be a conspiracy theory in my head. But, I have had several people tell me to watch it and then get back to them with my changed opinion. When I tell them I've already seen it they fume at me for keeping my view that nuclear is the way to go. Many are surprised to know that we have almost 100 nuclear power plants across our country, many of them powering some of the bluest spots on the map. Without them, we could have close to 100 million people without power. Or, we could replace them with coal. Our modern reactors, safeguards, and better disposal/storage practices are so much better now then they were back then that it is folly to make comparisons with the 70's. The arrogant Soviets simply cut fundamental corners and emergency fail-safes thinking it would never come back to bite them. Much of the world knows better now.

I'd agree. There's a difference between democrats and woke millennial liberals. I'm not sure if they'll grow up to be democrats. Although Biden is sure trying his best to entice them. https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-invites-drag-performers-232859900.html

Well, perhaps “ignorant in other ways“. I have some woke millennials that I hang out with at work, they are all for nuclear power, and wonder why the US hasn’t done it yet. They assume it’s because capitalism is evil.

I was yesterday years old when I learned part of the background on why the US has so many ignorant people hating and fearing nuclear power. Because the democrat national platform was anti-nuclear power for almost five decades, and didn't change until 2020. Because democrats spent all their time decrying the evils of nuclear proliferation and nuclear threat and nuclear armageddon and nuclear waste, and either ignored or harped against nuclear power. For every one time the democrats mentioned US nuclear power, they mentioned fifty times how we can't have breeder reactors because someone might make a nuclear bomb with it. Because Carter killed breeder reactors in the US, making a bunch of investors lose their shirts, so now every time someone tries to get people excited about nuclear power, all the money brokers say "I'd rather invest in friggin' bitcoin than this political hot potato." https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/08/23/after-48-years-democrats-endorse-nuclear-energy-in-platform/?sh=65b763645829 Well, at least it finally changed in 2020. Now we just need a generation to pass and all the old superstitious fearful weirdos to age out and get replaced by younger less ignorant people.

Fusion is a lie. It's been brought back triple speed today. Someone's making bank off of it. It's all hype, though. I boldly predict that nuclear fusion will never become a public power source in my lifetime. It's a scam. Yes, I am being serious. I could be wrong. It would be great if the researchers proved me wrong. Good times. But it won't happen, in my estimation. When I was a boy in the early 1970s and learned about fusion, it was confidently predicted that nuclear fusion was 25 years away. And it has basically remained 25 years away for my lifetime of nearly 60 years. That's Einsteinian relativity right there, folks. There are solid technical reasons why it's unlikely that fusion power will happen any time soon; indeed, perhaps not at all. But I doubt anyone reading this cares about that. Suffice it to say that it won't happen, not like the headlines have been blaring for the last 3-5 years. (Maybe longer. The rebirth of Fusion Frenzy has been going on a while now.) It is a scam, perpetrated by people making money off the idea. Might be as simple as the research machine looking out for its middle-term future. It might be a conspiracy (yes, conspiracies exist) of the oil companies to distract people into awaiting a never-to-come energy source that will save us from the evils of Big Oil, while in the meantime we keep lining the sultans' pockets. But whoever is behind it, it's a scam and a lie. If the media had an ounce of integrity, someone would take a hard look into the topic and do some tough investigative reporting on it. Yeah, good luck with that.

There are a few of us that they just can't seem to get rid of.

Not as active as it once was, but it's one of the more active faithful (mostly) forums that I've found.

Ftfy.

A nuclear science professor on social media tells me it's theoretically possible to mine radioactive materials from seawater. Just an awful lot of it, not sure if it's practical, but the science is there.

“On December 5, an array of lasers at the National Ignition Facility (NIF), part of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, fired 2.05 megajoules of energy at a tiny cylinder holding a pellet of frozen deuterium and tritium, heavier forms of hydrogen. The pellet compressed and generated temperatures and pressures intense enough to cause the hydrogen inside it to fuse. In a tiny blaze lasting less than a billionth of a second, the fusing atomic nuclei released 3.15 megajoules of energy—about 50 percent more than had been used to heat the pellet.“ Nice. Now we just have to extend the length of time by a factor of 10^12, contain the heat safely and couple it to a steam generator and we are in business. Next year?

Some things about the oil industry that few seem to understand (especially politicians of both parties). There are two recent technical improvements to the petroleum industry that has led to a massive worldwide increase available of crude oil. The first most have heard about, and it is called fracking. The second is horizonal drilling at depth. One thing this has done to the industry is change the equipment that is needed to remove crude. In times past, one would see, sometimes hundreds of these rocking pumps in oil fields and now only one is needed. This has caused some problems in keeping track of who gets the $$$ from the pumped crude. This is because the crude in ground reserves is not in a basin like water is at the surface. Crude resides at various strata layers over different depths underground and could be compared to more of a giant patio chip. (Maybe even a crinkled patio chip). Pressures in rock is much greater than pressures in water. Fracking injects lubricant (not a liquid lubricant) into a stratum of rock which will allow the pressure in rock to move the liquid crude to where drilling has taken place. The second technical improvement allows a drilling hole to move in many directions at once when the needed depth has been achieved. Because a particular crude reserve can go for miles (like a river) in many directions the oil rights that are determined at the surface can not pumped out of other locations. It is important to understand that for practical reasons directional drilling and fracking is under the same umbrella politically. Now to the great problem. The drilling equipment necessary for directional drilling and fracking is completely different than what is used for past methods of drilling. Not only is it different it is complex and requires an experienced and advanced drilling team to do it. When the current ministration mandated that no new fracking drilling could not be done on public lands companies were forced to moth ball their sophisticated equipment as well as their more expensive fracking labor force. What this means is that the equipment is no longer available even though it exists. Before it can be used again it must be checked out and prepared (a very expensive process) by a crew of trained and highly paid and experienced workers (that have found other means of making a living). Going back to an energy producing friendly government is not a matter of turning on a spicket. It could take as long as 10 years or longer – and the longer before going back takes, the exponentially more expensive it will become. The USA has for a long time been the industry's leader in fracking including the manufacture of necessary equipment. Because crude is so necessary for a global economy – many other countries are being forced to develop their own abilities (mostly by raiding what they can from the USA’s dormant workforce and expertise). For whatever reason this country insists on exporting it knowledge and capabilities in a manner of least benefit. The Traveler

I was thinking the same thing. That is quite interesting. Oh, of course.

I have some disappointing news for you, NT...

That's not true.

@daw88 Just so you are aware. Vort lies all of the time.

It's good that you done that, Vort.

An odd thing happened with callings in our Branch last Sunday. The entire Elders Quorum Presidency was released, and no one was called to take their place. I haven't seen something like that in about 20 years when I was living in another stake and one man was the EQP in two wards and a Branch at the same time.

I'll alert the Brigade for Intervention and Stopping HOrrible Problems (B.I.S.Ho.P) Squad. But you may never hear from him again.

What guns?