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Justice cannot be robbed. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) but because Jesus was sinless, and being God, having eternal life, what was unjustly taken from Him was His life, which is eternal and infinite, having no end. And while God’s own justice must reject evil, which has no place in His kingdom, His own sacrifice makes possible His right of mercy. Alma 34:9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made. 10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice. 11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay. 12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world. 13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away. Justice can demand of us death, and rightly so, for the wages of sin is death. But Jesus Christ who is our mediator (1 Timothy 2:5) and our intercessor (Hebrews 7:25) with the Father can, in effect, hold back justice and say to it, “you took from me my life, which is endless and infinite. Therefore, in restoring to myself what is infinite, I can claim ALL life.” Thus justice is necessarily satisfied. This is how God can continue to be God, having satisfied the demands of justice, which has claim on all of us sinners. It was necessary for Him to make such a condescension, with the capacity to die unjustly so that He could take up His life again and in that capacity, which is infinite, rescue the rest of us.

Greetings, friends! 😊 It's been a while, but since having forgotten my password, which took a long time to remember, I wanted to share new entries: Believe Jesus. Good Friday, Good Father. Hope you all enjoyed conference. My favorite talk was Sister Eubank's--Christ: The Light That Shines in Darkness.

New entry: What Seek Ye?

I'll be the aberrant voice. I only believe in being self reliant insofar as I am not a burden to anyone. While I believe in bearing one another's burdens, I prefer that to be an equitable proposition. Otherwise, I strongly advocate what the Lord declared to his people through Jacob in the land of Nephi: Or consider what Jesus Christ taught his twelve disciples who were to become his special witnesses: And the time came when He asked if they ever lacked anything for their discipleship: We see examples of those who were self reliant and yet were called to repentance. For example: Amulek repented of his self serving, self reliant ways to serve someone else, who was wholly reliant on the Lord, namely Alma who I believe went preaching without purse or scrip: Like Jesus' disciples, Alma never lacked anything. For he labored as one who labors in Zion. But as not all are apostles of the Lord, we can all be disciples. For example: Consider the following parable given by Jesus Christ: The man in the parable was the kind of man that planned for tomorrow. He saved up for his retirement. He kept his food storage. He was certainly self reliant. What could he have done with this stores while he acquired them that Jesus Christ would have approved of? Verse 21 seems to qualify the Lord's intent. If we choose to seek for riches, it ought to be for the sole purpose of elevating the least of His children who are powerless, even undeserving of our surplus. For we are all undeserving of all God has to offer us and it is only by His grace and His love that we have received anything. But that is how we retain a remission of our own sins. Or else we might find ourselves in a worse fate.

Mikbone, have you read the King Follet Sermon?

You do yourself a disservice for God is no respecter of persons. He has invited all men, both Gentile and House of Israel to come unto Him and rend the veil of unbelief. As you are not a heathen, ignorant of the the gospel of Jesus Christ, this means you are also invited. Nobody is exempt.

You're welcome. If you missed the link to the pdf I wrote, here are some of the words relative to this topic: This was the purpose of the School of the Prophets. He defined the role of apostleship. Like Saul of old who became Paul, they had rent the veil and became eye witnesses of God. Having set the stage for the creation of the School of the Prophets, the Lectures on Faith were then commissioned for their education.Here is the link if you want to read the entire thing: https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/lectures-on-faith-my-witness.pdf

I know I've shared a lot of information in this topic. I apologize I did not post more concisely my thoughts. It seems that those who have asked me questions have not completely read everything I have shared, which I believe is quite comprehensive. The only other thing I can add to help clarify is the mention of Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon in which he declared: We are presented with the idea of two distinct individuals. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, who have both gazed into heaven and conversed with Jesus Christ (D&C 76), knew what they were talking about when they along with others in a committee wrote the Lectures on Faith and in the third lecture, taught the correct attributes of a Father and a Son. It is not incorrect to attribute to Jesus Christ the name/title/roll/office/whatever word you choose of Father. He has worked it out and has taken His place while His Father, who is also our Heavenly Father has taken a higher exaltation. Both are Fathers, or if you will, "the Father." Likewise, Abinadi and all other prophets who "knew" God, knew what they were talking about when describing Jesus Christ. To quote Abinadi again: Abinadi taught by the Spirit, but King Noah and his priests with the possible exception of Alma, did not understand Abinadi and could not because they did not receive his teaching by the Spirit. Otherwise, they would have repented of their evil and in doing so, they would have also sought to know the Lord, befitting their offices in their small church in the land of Nephi.

Hello, SpiritDragon. No, I am not suggesting that they are one and the same body. They are two distinct, glorified individuals.

This is all the approved pattern I need: and Nothing subtle about it. Bold, straightforward and precise. Straight from Jesus Christ's own mouth. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. I know these are Jesus Christ's words. He is the Father. They are true. He invites both Gentile and house of Israel to rend the veil of unbelief and know Him. That means know Him personally, not just about Him. Nobody is exempt--especially members of the church.

May I suggest the word "character" and/or "attributes" rather than "nature?" The natural man is an enemy to God. Jesus Christ is no longer natural. Although nature can include attributes and characteristics, it also implies belonging to the physical, natural world, of which Jehovah is not. It may be why the Lectures on Faith does not use the word nature when describing the attributes and character when describing the correct ideas of God.

@Anddenex, I'm on my cell, so my answer must be brief. If you read everything I shared in this thread including my pdf link, you will see that I have already addressed this. If it's still unclear, I'll try and clarity when I get home to my computer. Cheers.

That is spot on, @SpiritDragon. Yes, Abraham claimed the right of a "father" along with all the other patriarchs prior to the flood. It is through Abraham that all generations of the earth after him are blessed. It is also why the sacrifice required of him was so extreme and how symbolic it was of the sacrifice of our Savior, Jesus Christ. I don't know why Abraham's trial was so difficult compared to that of the others, but I can only speculate that his "succession" was so far out of turn, that the Lord truly tested his willingness to make that claim. Thus, Isaac and Jacob also became "fathers" and why the three are typically mentioned together in succession, Jacob (or Israel) being the father of twelve nations. A few examples:

In terms of covenant relationships, I do not agree with the term "elder brother." The only context that lends any kind of weight to the term is the fact that Jesus Christ is the "Firstborn" as in church of the firstborn. Otherwise as I quoted above, there is a Father and there is a Son. We may become sons and one day, as Joseph Smith explained in his King Follet sermon, a son may become a Father when it comes to a covenant relationship, Abraham, being one example.

Alma prayed to Jesus. Other scriptures: Jehovah goes on to call Moses His son. He has also called others His son(s) D&C 109 where Joseph Smith prays to Jehovah as the Father in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ when dedicating the temple. The Kirtland Temple dedicatory prayer was specifically given to Joseph Smith by revelation. He did not make these words up.