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Everything posted by THIRDpersonviewer

  1. THIRDpersonviewer

    I don't know if I should throw this out there, but...

    Alma 42:22 from the Book of Mormon 22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God. I think it is self-explanatory. You are correct, though. It is just in a theoretical sense. The context of the chapter is, a prophet is teaching his son, specifically, about the relationship of justice and mercy.
  2. THIRDpersonviewer

    I need help with a complicated situation

    To be in keeping with the commandments of God, she has to be legally married by the law or in the Temple, which will confirm and make sure the marriage happens by he law. I was in Thailand for the last two years and we taught some Thai people who would have a ceremony for the marriage, but not be legally married by law. We would have to teach them to get married by law in order to keep the Law of sexual purity. The thing that Mormon's belive, which I think you might be interested in, is you can have the opportunity to be married to each other for eternity. Not just for this life. With this comes other great blessings that comes through faithfulness in keeping the commandments of God. I think you, if allowed by your parents, should look into this. It would be a blessing in your life as well as hers. By the way, I think that is wonderful that both of you do not desire to sin in this matter. That is a major step up from the immoral, blasphemous world.
  3. THIRDpersonviewer

    Prop 8. and temple recommends

    Semantics is a ridiculous argument. It can really sever relationships if not watched. I was once told that 60 to 70 percent of all arguments come from semantics. I want to even say more than that, but I cann't remember for 100 percent sure. Anyways, I hope what was seen from both sides, was that there was a misunderstanding of words, at which there was offense taken. Ultimately, one or the other started to attack a principle of belief. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Article of faith #11 We claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men this same privilege.(that is a bad/rough paraphrase) I don't think the problem was in the misinterpreted words, but in the reactions to them, where some not very nice things were said. Things that attacked others beliefs. This will then put one on the defensive unless he or she realizes the reality of the 11th article of faith or the 1 amendment of the consitiution. This puts us in a spirit of contention, of which the Lord counsels, teaches, warns, and denounces, and rebukes, and condemns: He who has the spirit of contention is of the devil.
  4. THIRDpersonviewer

    Building trust for your church

    Distrust comes largely from lack of exposure." I believe this statement has a lot of truth to it. The exposure just has to be the truth. When you begin to have a relationship with someone, you generally have to choose to trust someone. There are so many things you DON'T know about someone, but as you spend time and get acquainted, you become more familiar, right? You begin, in your nature to trust that a person more and more. You trust in a way that you expect them to act or be a certain way. After 40 or 50 years of marriage, the relationship should get tighter and tighter, and therefore one spouse does not need to worry about the other spouse going and stealing or lying or doing whatever type of abominations, because there is an inner-trust built upon through 40 or 50 years of "getting familiar" with each other. Our relationship with God works the same way. We have a lifetime to get familiar with our Heavenly Father. Christ said no one cometh unto the Father but by me. The way to come unto Christ is through the Holy Spirit, who testifies that Jesus is the Christ, and that the Father is the Father. Therefore we need to be very familiar with the Holy Ghost in our lifetime to get the needed trust or faith to live with our Heavenly Father again. We have really seek with all our hearts to acquire this kind of faith. Therefore we draw closer to God by our repeated exposure and encounters with the Holy Spirit. Our trust and faith are increased by our communion with the Holy Spirit. What a blessing as members of the church to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Are we seeking it enough in our lives to enjoy the constant companionship? We can feel witnesses sure, but are we living enough in our lives to feel the direction and support of our Heavenly Father always? At a moment's notice we have the aid and powers brought down from heaven to lift us through the storms and torrents of life. Do we ourselves, live in this manner? What does it mean to believe? Elder McConkie answers this one very plainly if you seek to look up the answer. Jarom 1:4 As relating to the church, the same principles will apply. The only issue, is people have to seek it to know it.
  5. THIRDpersonviewer

    The word "Mormon"

    You can look at what others perceive through the word, or you can look at how you perceive the word. Look at things yourself, not through the eyes of others. You are living your life and not the life of 55 other people in the world.(Thank goodness. Its hard enough living my own.) I personally think that it would be a wonderful blessing that we are known as Mormon. That gives you the oportunity to set them straight and tell them who we really are, to tell them the truth. Then you can ask "Is there more you like to know. I know some men that can come around and tell you more of what we believe."(missionaries) I should also mention that it doesn't matter, as such, to us. Look at the bottom of skalenfehl's posts in the light blue.:)
  6. THIRDpersonviewer


    Listener hit it right on the money. ALL that is ever required for any interview is honesty. Pure, absolute honesty. The ability and desire to admit the truth, no matter how dark or shameful it may seem, brings countless blessings into your life. It is a beautiful example of true humility, which is where all blessings flow from.(Mosiah 3:19) BTW, congratulations on your baptism Listener!!!
  7. THIRDpersonviewer

    NormalMormon questions about the priesthood.

    I should also point out, that in proper circumstances, the women should be in the home and the men should be earning the wages. Why? Because, inherent of being the mother or the one who brought the child into the world, they have an individual bond that the father and child do not have. The home is stronger with a mother who does her duty. I am not saying the husband should not help out. But the mother is the primary teacher. You could call it "going on a mission." Prepared missionaries have a testimony based on truth given by the Holy Ghost. Same requirements as I see it.(To have a successful family) I have expressed my view that there has to be a parent at home and at work. It cannot be flipped, as I see it, from the father is outside and the mother is inside. Why? Because there is that special bond between mother and child. And for my final point. God ordained it to be such, with modern counsel given through the proclamation to the world. Also, the Priesthood is not to be sought after for its blessings. It is sought for the enhanced service and love that can be rendered. Given first to God, then to fellow men. And inasmuch as the father and mother are one, they are one in the Priesthood and in the sight of God.
  8. THIRDpersonviewer

    NormalMormon questions about the priesthood.

    I tried to find the source but I couldn't. I believe either Marion G Romney or LeGrande Richards mentions this, but not sure. Anyways I read somewhere, that for men they are called to use and exercise the Priesthood. They are called to do every day of their lives. That is how they become clean. Jacob talks about this in the BoM. Daily magnification of their calling. Think of Priesthood as I teach to people outside the home. Think of rearing a family as teaching to people inside the home. Either way it is preaching the gospel. Covering everything. I have also noticed that, in general, the mother can connect and talk about more sensitive things in the way a father cannot. That is personal and individual and inside the home material. When the father is outside, he guards and protects them from shame and pain of the world. So really the only difference as I see it, is my mother does not administer to me blessings and ordinances, and my father does. However, she brought me into the world. Which allows me the opportunity to even have those blessings. There is truly unification in the husband and wife, but only if they each do their parts. As I see it, one has to be outside the home, and the other has to be inside the home. Can't have two outside or two inside. One is an external defender, and one is an internal defender. The devil is crafty and will sneak in somehow and the angry mother(which I think is feared more) gets to destroy the evil tarnish on her living room rug with vengeance. Priesthood functions as service to others. It can never be used to bless oneself. So the mother couldn't use the Priesthood anyways because her role is to rear the family. Inherent of child-birth. Mother and father support each other in their respective roles. But they do not replace those roles.
  9. THIRDpersonviewer

    Why the war?

    I don't know if this is just me, but it seems in nearly every thread(that is serious), there is some form of contention, argument, insults, attacks, thoughtlessness, rudeness, arrogance, ignorance, assumption, lack of understanding pertaining to circumstances, heated discussion or other negative position. I think we should all take a moment and think about what we are about to write. "Is it going to be negative in any way?" If it is, then I would suggest not writing it. What's the point in writing it? It will either cause offense, or it will put people in an adversarial position, mounting for war. We are not perfect and we may not realize what we are saying and how it makes others feel. But know this, at least for the members of the Church, you have entered into covenants with God that if broken and not renewed through repentance and the Sacrament, will stand as a testimony against you to your condemnation. Baptismal covenant. To stand as witnesses of God, at ALL times, and in ALL things, and in ALL places. To be a witness of God is to represent Him. Represent Him through conduct, appearance, demeanor, behavior and actions which are in line with His divine nature. Which consist in small: faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence. We should try not to judge the heart or the intent of others. The Lord will judge them. He has appointed servants to do so, such as Bishops and Stake Presidents. Their judgments are only in terms of service. To help us see for ourselves our position that we could not otherwise see, because we are blinded by pride. Then he will judge us as pertaining to the Church. It is still the judgment of the Lord whether we are forgiven or not. I should also note, that the only being authorized to judge for justification or condemnation is the Lord. And when any man, acting under his own discretion, judges others then he is assuming a position and mantle of authority higher than the Lord's. That man supposes, indirectly, that he is greater than God. What a gross display of pride and arrogance. And so strikingly similar to the devil, that motion is. Again I say we are not perfect. But make an HONEST attempt to explore ALL the possible ramifications of your comments. Then you are a lot less likely to cause offense to others. We may not all be Mormons here, but we are mostly Christian. We publish peace. We do the things that would please God. The following are the words of the Lord to the Nephites after His resurrection. I might add that they are among the first things He says to the people. 3 Nephi 11:24-30 24 And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: 25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 26 And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. 27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one. 28 And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been. 29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. 30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away. I will say that some people will take offense to this. They will be the ones that will find fault with this post. But others will agree. My intent is not to call anyone out, or to offend, or to accuse. My intent is to help us all realize the importance of watching our words. And to make this place a hospitable one to non-members. That it is not a battlefield, where we have to argue, and mingle it with an insult below the belt here and there. [Which might sadly cause one to apostatize and fall away(sinning by not forgiving)] I would also like at this time to take the moment to apologize to those whom I have offended. I have meant well. I see and know certain things, that some do not know, and vice versa. I want to share with others the fruit of my studies, and want to learn from others. There are some things where my position is very firm and I will not relent and those are the times, I think, that I have caused offense. Again I am sorry, I just hope we all may watch our words and obey the words of the Savior. Matthew 12:34-37 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
  10. THIRDpersonviewer

    when you prayed over the BoM...

    Agency or Inspiration-Which? This is a devotional that I read once, it helped me understand and realize much more clearly how to ask God things. I can't really describe it without going into lots of detail, but Elder McConkie does so, so I won't.
  11. THIRDpersonviewer

    Why the war?

    The point is not disagreeing.(as I see it) I don't mind disagreeing. It shows we have different opinions and beliefs. I feel that makes part of the unique individuals that we are. It is more the feeling of the discussion that I don't like. That is what I see as the spirit of contention. I can disagree with you that I like rock music, and you like rap music. The point is even though we disagree. That doesn't mean I call you a self-centered jerk who is not interested in hearing my point of view.(I don't think that is the case BTW) Everything was fine until I made an attack. We both had differing opinions, but when I took a step forward and said something very negative and personal. Then it naturally places you in a defensive position. Then you have the choice to ignore it or figure out why it was said, or to attack back. Its the attacks that make the negative feeling.(as I see it) I do agree with both of you, PC and skal. However, I do not come to this forum, though, to read garbage, hence my post. I read that on other forums.(if I choose to go there)
  12. THIRDpersonviewer

    Is grace enough?

    I will just say, Grace is a free gift to all men without works. Regardless of their actions and situations in life, all men and all things will be redeemed. All things will be resurrected. No man has to do anything, to get this part of the gift. I could be the vilest sinner and yet be resurrected accordingly and only because of this great gift of God. Were there no Atonement of Christ, there would be no Salvation. All men and all things would be in a fallen state forever and ever and would be like unto the devil and his angels. Forever servants of darkness. However that is not the case. Christ worked out His own Salvation. In so doing he made it possible for us to work ours out too. Because of what He did, I can pray and read scriptures and do all manner of righteousness and it will have meaning in the world to come. Without the Atonement there is no need or reason to live righteously because we could not have everlasting happiness. All the Atonement does is provide the way and the means whereby Salvation comes. However it is our choice, evidenced by our works, where we end up in the world to come. We choose how much of the Atonement we want to apply to us. It can either be a fullness or a tiny bit. Either way, some aspect of the Atonement will apply to everyone. The more one lives righteously, the more one receives the gift of the Atonement. They feel the blessings in this life. They feel the peace, and satisfaction that being clean offers.
  13. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    spirit is when the Earth was housed by its spirit just as we are to our body. water was part of the creation of the Earth.
  14. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    You're probably right, but I just so happen to be a technical person. I look at details, and I use them to analyze the principle. Some details alter a principle. Hence, as I saw it, my earlier disagreement to gwozz. That is sometimes my problem, and sometimes it works to great advantage. I think you're right, though. The Earth doesn't need to go through all of what we go through. That would be because that is not the purpose of its creation. I have just heard those similar comparisons about the Earth before, about baptism and so forth and was just curious.
  15. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    It would make sense though. Those natural flowing resources. I actually heard the other day from an enzymologist. That the only degenerative cells in our body are red blood cells. The function of mortality. We know there won't be a body of flesh and blood but rather of flesh and bones. Kinda interesting. As lava hardens it becomes part of the Earth. It becomes firmer, stronger, and more fine and pure. Just as an exalted body does in comparison to a telestial or terrestrial body. So I would then suspect then that the Earth would lose that factor and it would harden all the way through. How do we form glass?... Of course I do not know for sure, but this is what just occurred to me.
  16. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    I have a question as it pertains to baptism. The Earth receive its baptism by blood through the atonement of Christ, but what about its original birth when the Earth was created. How was the Earth born by blood the first time? It has received two "births" for water, and spirit. I see one for blood. Moses 6:59 59 That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory; 60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;
  17. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    I disagree with a part of number 7. Christ came to fulfill the Law. The law, aka Plan of Salvation. Fulfilling this consists of receiving Exaltation. It was made possible through Christ. It does not bring us back to a pre-mortal state other than to finish progression to Exaltation. Immortality as it pertains to man, consists of the uniting of body and spirit forever, just as you stated with number 8. Yes intelligence is an eternal and infinite existence, so it is thus immortal. But it would persist that way, even without the redemption of Christ. You stated that yourself. His coming has always been necessary. It is an eternal principle. It is everlasting. It would not have been possible without the Atonement. But the necessity has always been needed. That was the way ordained of by God to bring men to Exaltation. From before the foundations of the world. Because of the Atonement of Christ the terms and conditions of the Plan of Salvation became operative. If there were no Atonement of Christ, we would become like the devil and his angels. Subject to his everlasting misery and woe.
  18. THIRDpersonviewer

    How the scriptures are linked

    Ephesians 3-6 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Along the same lines of unity of truth and light. The Gospel is one with God, along with its administering.
  19. THIRDpersonviewer

    How the scriptures are linked

    Genesis 2:24 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Connection: This principle of cleaving, or unity, is what brings a fullness of joy, a fullness of glory, a fullness of love. Exaltation consists of two things. The continuation of an eternal family unit. Receiving the fullness of the Father. Also Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are united as one because they are united and cleave to each other as light, truth, desire and purpose. How do we become one with the Father? When our light or intelligence cleaves unto Him. When we desire to do His will above all else. Those that receive Exaltation are the ones that have a desire to increase the attributes of godliness, to cleave unto righteousness and to truth. They have the desire to be unified. Truth is not divided.
  20. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    I do not see any offense in it, personally. I agree to the quote, and have felt that is a puzzling matter. Because I want people to know what I know. I want others to have the blessings that I have. I also feel like it is my duty, inherent of the Priesthood, to teach what I know. (Jacob 1:19) Otherwise I am condemned for not magnifying my calling. I then forfeit my Exaltation. That is when it gets really hard for me to distinguish when to stop teaching. I want to be sure I m fulfilling my duty and serving God appropriately. 17 Wherefore I, Jacob, gave unto them these words as I taught them in the temple, having first obtained mine errand from the Lord. 18 For I, Jacob, and my brother Joseph had been consecrated priests and teachers of this people, by the hand of Nephi. 19 And we did magnify our office unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people upon our own heads if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence; wherefore, by laboring with our might their blood might not come upon our garments; otherwise their blood would come upon our garments, and we would not be found spotless at the last day.
  21. THIRDpersonviewer

    I Would Like Opinions On An Activity My Kids Did In Primary

    I would just say, from my understanding, the cross has been a representation of the death of Christ. That He is dead. We as Mormons believe that He lives. There are a great many Mormons that also know that He lives. I worship a living God. Not death.
  22. THIRDpersonviewer

    Purpose of a body

    Light and truth is the substance of God's glory. It is knowledge. It is self-existant principle. Light of truth is the reality of power given to an individual to guard against darkness. It is what knowledge benefits to man. These are awfully similar but yet their purposes in meanings are different.
  23. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    I think the Prophet Joseph Smith was referencing the fact that he was merely there among intelligences, spirits, and glory, and so on. As to God's character and progression. We know there is no progression about Him, except for His exalted state, and the works of Exaltation. In other words, the expansion of the Eternal Family. God is more intelligent because He has ALL knowledge. I do not know anything than his current position so I respect the power and authority of that position and do not demean his godliness by supposing that he was not God. How do intelligences reach that level? Learning and progression. Can't learn new truths unless we use the ones we have and prove our faithfulness to them.
  24. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    I think the way I read it is a continuation of Satan's first words. At least according to the punctuation that is how I read it. Which would make sense to me, and my understanding. Satan says Give me your honor which is my power, or how I work and operate my dominion over others. Those that give respect and honor to Satan are his followers. That explains his followers and their rebellion. Because they honored and loved him they were FORCED, according to God's Law which is no man can serve two masters, to follow him because they honored ungodliness, chaos and rebellion. They did not honor the one true living God. So it was be subject to a being that wants more power than everyone. Or be subject to a being that makes you equal with Him. The first is tyranny. The second is democracy. Yet the only way to get that democracy is to be in perfect alignment with God, so it is really one ruling anyways. He rules with love. The great commandment. I understand God to have ALL power now, there is no more progression in that regard. It is not predicated on the honor or respect to his name. It is not predicated on anything other than the nature and kind of being God is. One more point. You have kids. When they were tiny children I am sure there were times when you forced them do things because you knew something would be dangerous for them. Think of him getting a hold of a bottle of poison. You saw it and then you ran and took the bottle away. You would not give him the choice. For a few reasons. One of which he didn't know any better. So it would be with infant intelligences. Or ones that hadn't progressed that much. So God did things to advance them to a point where they could appropriately make decisions in accountability.
  25. THIRDpersonviewer

    The Creation.

    You're right, he doesn't make intelligences. However he forms, organizes, or establishes them into an advanced form. That is what happens when our body was created. At some point the intelligences became spirits. How? Through His Laws, through His instrumentality. It essentially comes from the King Follett. Intelligence exists on a self-existent principle, ... God, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby they might advance and progress to become like Him. -King Follett Discourse Part of this progression comes by organization of spirit. The spirit is organized and made more fine and more pure. I already touched upon it. It moves from intelligence to a spirit to a body. Don't the substances get harder or more firm than the prior state? Are they not more organized in each case?