spirettedotter

Does this thread seem to be turning into something other than doctrine discussion? Should I move to a different category to get more response, perhaps? Patiently waiting . . .

Thanks for your comment, too, Traveler. That's an interesting perspective, written concisely, & similar to my initial thoughts.

Thank you much for the responses, Finrock, Dravin, & Loudmouth! I'm glad I got feedback before I responded or dismissed the suggestion. I'm not sure why my initial response was resistance, but I agree with all your comments completely. I think I was just concerned it didn't fit with LDS gospel & didn't want to get off track. And maybe there's a blemish in my faith at the moment which I need to work on. I do cherish having the eternal perspective and that's always been what get's me through my trials. I do pray for His Will in all things, and help in knowing what is my footwork to do each day. I try to give up my own will, control, and agenda and trust the Lord fully and humbly. My biggest difficulty is discerning the guidance and hearing answers so that I also know what's my responsibility to DO, and when to let go and let God (completely without other action on my part). The particular situation involves a small child in my family who I love dearly and is neglected, at risk, and has no voice in the care of an addict. Since I've been the majority relative caregiver for 20 months until January and am still very closely involved, I'm the only one in a position to document, talk, & take action. I carefully try to discern what and when to act, without getting myself kicked out of the baby's life, which would cause more harm. My friend's attitude has come across to me as mostly suggesting I do nothing, hand it all over to God, and stay out of it. She encourages more charity toward the addict. But my feeling is that if everyone minded their own business, nothing bad would likely change. Help and generosity often enables an addict to continue destructive behavior. I'm trying to find a balance of taking responsibility to help in the whole big picture, showing kindness and empathy to the adult addict without enabling. It's a rotten position to be in, witnessing the suffering of a child at the hands of a addict parent. I've been using prayer, priesthood blessings, and Alanon to help me get through this hardship, but I'm so glad I thought to post here for some LDS perspective. I hope to get more responses today and appreciate all of you who have and will post back. Thank you all so much. <3 xo

A non-Christian supportive friend/Alanon sponsor told me in person to try to see the world through God's eyes. A few days later, she emailed, "Let me know when God has helped you see the world through his eyes, even if it only lasts for moments, it will be trans-formative." While I understand the positive spirit in which she meant it, my first thought is that I can't possibly. I'm not knowledgeable, experienced, powerful, wise, or qualified to even come close to His infinite way of viewing & interpreting the world, let alone regarding the complex trials which triggered the conversation. I can do my best to discern how He might see things, based on my limited knowledge of good and evil. But . . . To ask for such vision, test faith by trying, based on a pretense that I might understand as He does, or imagine I can judge anything on an equal level with God--seems to me to be the opposite of having a humble spirit and a contrite heart. I believe I need to trust that he sees and knows all, infinitely beyond my capacity. I don't think it's my place to question His reason, knowledge, wisdom and will. Those mysteries are not mine to understand in this life. Instead, I think I must trust that He holds the keys, and the details are none of my business. I Googled the phrase & found it to be used in the Evangelical revival population. Can anyone comment with suggestions about how I might best reply on this topic--by sharing gospel principles, without offending or arguing religion? Or am I taking it too literal over-analyzing? Hope to get replies soon. Thanks!

Thanks for the comments and discussion. I find the creativity of such a situation fascinating, yet wonder if the reality of such an arrangement could blow up into disaster. I've imagined myself in her place with such an option, wondering if I could, or would do it. Caring for and helping a frail 80 year old man nearing the end of life is no doubt difficult work. To me marriage is a sacred covenant, and is only warranted if there's love. I certainly wouldn't judge them, but going into a financial arrangement like that--waiting for the husband to pass away--seems like an awkward position to be in, especially if she were young enough that she might want to marry again afterward. Then again, if it's honest, respectful, and beneficial to both the husband and wife, it could work out nicely and become an example of sharing Christlike love. I wonder if entering into a temporary civil marriage like that might dissuade future priesthood holders from being interested in her later? Seems like those would be valid considerations. The responses so far aren't what I expected. Guess we're a very open-minded group. Comments appreciated :)

My first thoughts are that it's just wrong. But the circumstances are interesting, if nothing else. The arrangement the woman was presented with doesn't include expectations of physcial intimacy, so she wouldn't be selling herself. They are virtually strangers, meeting only for consideration of the benefits described below. The man is wheelchair bound, elderly (in 80's with lots of health issues, not expected to live long), and has professional and veteran pensions plus an insurance policy that would set her up with income for life, after he passes. He paid into the policy for years intending for his late wife to receive financial security, but she passed before him. The beneficiary must be a spouse only, so his children aren't eligible, and he doesn't want to waste the money. The woman (in her 50's) is 30 years younger than he, raised her family as a single mom, has struggled and been single most of her life (first husband deceased before church membership, then sealed briefly to an abuser). She triumphed over her own critical health issues, is unable to work because of residual health, and lives on an inadequately low fixed income, unable to afford needed health care. The insurance requirements states the wife must live with him 6 to 12 months to receive the benefits, unless he passes sooner after entering the [civil] marriage. He'd appreciate help and companionship, and the opportunity to help someone; she'd enjoy serving, being needed, and financial security. Back in the day of plural and/or arranged marriages, this scenario would have been acceptable for mutual benefit and survival. With an LDS perspective today, is this wrong or personal choice? Would love to see opinions and discussion.

Dear MM, Thank you so much for your post! It was very comforting to hear you perspective. I can only hope that my gentleman friend's family would feel as you do about wanting him to be happy. I really didn't get the feeling that his adult children would have much problem with their father marrying a new woman and accepting her into the family... but I have the impression he's just not really ready himself. He sounds so conflicted, not wanting to be alone, wanting intimacy, being very flirty, but feeling guilty and not wanting to betray his late wife. He says he's worried about his in-laws not understanding, but I'm guessing it's mostly internal hesitancy. I noticed you mentioned your siblings interacted with "S" a few years back, and that your mother passed away not quite a few years ago... So can I ask how long your father knew and dated "S", and how long after losing your mom they started their relationship? I'm just curious how long they courted, etc. At an older age, do folks tend to go slower to be sure, or sooner to not waste time? I'm sure it's a personal choice... But interested to hear the pace other couples are comfortable with. I'm also really interested in your feelings about your father's new sealing. I think that's great. Also, how long did it take for approval for his second sealing. Was that difficult to get? I know there's no telling how this will play out for me, so this is a waiting game. But I'm thinking this holiday season, and the anniversary of his wife's death will all affect him over the next few months. I'm trying to give him time and space (as hard as it feels to be patient), yet let him know I care. We'll see... Your comments are very encouraging. Thank you so much.

I've had migraines off and on since I was 13, sometimes days and nights for months straight at a time. They went away for about 10 years during my childbearing years, then came back with added stress and traumas. I've tried just about everything at least once, either on an as needed basis or as a preventative med. I can't take the stronger meds either, and the ones I've tried haven't worked for me. But the second time around using Midrin, as needed, has been helping for the last 6 months. Magnesium by injection or IV has sometimes been helpful. Feverfew is an herb that did work for me after taking it steady for several months. It worked so well, I stopped using it because I wasn't haven't any more migraines. I'm ready to try it again now though. Another thing that I don't think was mentioned here is being on top of our self-care, nutrition, and fluids. Migraines and stress headaches are directly related to our ability to handle life's and daily stressors, so taking proper care of ourselves: getting enough sleep and relaxation time; eating before the point of hunger; and getting enough fluids to flush the system really do help. Hope you all feel better. :)

Actually, the Atonement CAN heal a soul at ANY point in his or her affliction/addiction. The Atonement is the working power of the Lord, it is the source of miracles, and our gift which the Saviour gives to anyone in need through His loving sacrifice. It can and does work whenever a person has the faith to use it in their lives for their good. A 12-step program, along with the Atonement, can begin to help an addict to recovery from any starting point, whenever they choose to start using it. For a practicing addict, it may just work as a seed planted for later recovery, or it may be the life-changing inspiration needed to help the person leave his addiction behind. No one can predict when a person is ready for recovery or when they have hit bottom. But the gift and tools are available equally to anyone who needs them, no matter how progressed or active their addiction may be. That means there is always hope for everyone! Of course the longer one stays abstinent from their addiction, the more healing they can experience. But recovery isn't required first before the Atonement can begin to work. And as already stated, porn addiction is certainly a serious problem that should be discussed with a bishop. And a problem like that likely won't go away by itself. It takes desire, work, and committment for recovery. But there is a way, and it can be done.

My response is in agreement with the comment that the addiction is not really about sex. I don't know about the endorphins theory though. I believe all addictions are really about seeking a "fix" for pain that isn't being dealing with. Getting rid of your computer won't stop you from going to the library or an X-rated business, etc. The only way a 12-step program will help you, is if you work the steps! When you have truly hit your bottom and are ready to change, the Atonement of your Savior is what can heal you. You have to be ready and willing to go to any length to dig into your past (take your inventory) hand your burdens over to the Lord, and practice trusting in Him every minute to relieve you from the need for a fix. That will take the willingness to put a support system in place and USE it, make a list of alternative actions that help and DO them, reach out to others at any time of risk, and white-knucke it when things get rough. There is no easy way to get through any addiction. But making a decision and sitcking to it, along with using the tools you learn, and the strength available through the Lord, can get you through the difficult times until the easier times become your new habit. You can be free, but it won't happen automatically for you. It takes work and the grace of God both. Some can do it, and others can't. Which are you?

Actually, there are quite a number of widows and widowers on the single sites. But really, aren't there any more widowers and wives who married widowers here who can offer some additional comments, please? Or even friends who know of others who have been in such relationships?

By sealing clearance, do you mean an approval that is required before any sealing can take place verses a cancellation from a previous sealing? Can you explain the difference and who needs each? If a widower wants to be sealed to a second wife, does approval take months? And if a sister wants a cancellation in order to get sealed to a righteous priesthood holder, might that take even longer? So a couple in that situation might need to plan on a very long engagement?

In an ideal world, your bishop, stake president, YW leaders, and parents would be right there, ready to support and gude you without judgement. Unfortunately, it isn't always like that. I felt judged by my bishop a number of years ago, and phoned my stake president in tears requesting an appointment to discuss some difficulties in my life. He refused, saying I needed to go to my bishop despite my discomfort with him, and do things in the proper chain of order. Our leaders are mortal men, and all have their limitations and challenges. Some are put in their positions for the opportunity to grow. Sometimes we can help educate them. But when dealing with sensitive issues, we need to learn to take care of ourselves as much as possible. Maybe a Relief Society president could be easier to talk with first; and perhaps go with you to meet with the bishop, (if not the YW leader, which was a good suggestion). As I said earlier, I think writing out what you need to say is the best way to go. It can be therapuetic for you to write, helpful to your church leader to hear your heart more fully, and an easier form of communication (plus you can edit it as many times as you want before sharing it in person). Whoever you choose for support, and however you choose to proceed, I think you know you must take some action to move forward. Stay prayerful, and know that there are a lot of us who care and wish you the best in moving forward.

Snowwhite, I give you credit for being aware that this issue needs to be corrected (as it is detrimental to yourself and offensive to the Lord), for seeking advice, and for realizing that you need to take better care of yourself to feel better about yourself. You've already taken the first step by admitting you have a problem and asking for advice. No doubt you have learned that the thrill you feel by turning a guy on is only temporary, and will actually make you feel worse later if you act on it out of wedlock. In the long run, it hurts you. Suffering from low self-esteem perpetuates a cycle of poor choices, which in turn makes you feel worse about yourself. You can't get out of such a spiral without taking the responsibility to do whatever it takes to change. Poor self-esteem is always caused by something external (outside of yourself). Children aren't born with low self-esteem; most often it is caused by trauma of some degree. It may take a lot of work and time to discover how you got that way, and how to heal. You have to stay away from your slippery places (and people) if you want to feel better about yourself and feel Heavenly Father's love. It is never too late. Any boy who expects you to do what you aren't confortable doing, or what you know is wrong, is not your true friend. You don't need a boyfriend or a husband like that. Tell him the truth. You need to take care of yourself by following God's law of chastity, and that is more important to you than anything else right now. Being in a relationship with someone you don't love or even like is actually a very common mistake for women and girls with low self-esteem and abuse issues. Depending on someone else to feel better is called co-dependancy. It goes along with the inability to feel your self worth. It is a common issue and there is help for it. There are 12-step programs within the church and outside the church that can help you work on yourself and make the changes that will in turn help you to feel better about yourself. Take strong measures to keep yourself safe. Make rules for yourself never to be alone with a boy or in compromising situations. Set up a support system to keep you strong when you are tempted. Try imagining and connecting with a part inside yourself, perhaps a younger part, that you can love and protect. Make it your job to keep "her" safe and out of trouble. The law of chastity can be a difficult for many people of any age without a testimony. In a world where people regularly indulge and justify sin, it is a blessing and an honor to know that we are given this commandment for our protection and best interest, by a loving Father in Heaven who cares about us and wants us emotionally and physically healthy. You might want to consider writing a letter to your bishop to bring in with you when you see him. That way you can think out and write exactly what you want to say without feeling judged. If you feel your bishop is judgemental, you may want to find an advocate that you trust to go in with you when you meet with him. Some bishops just aren't that understanding or good with people. You don't want to let a bishop make your feel worse about yourself when you're already suffering with low self-esteem. Ask for a blessing, and for uplifting help and inspiration. You may also want to have a support system available to talk with you after you see your bishop. This may be the toughest challenge you've had to face. But you've already shown by your comments that you know what is right. Good luck, and may you gain strength and security as you become closer to the Lord.

Thank you everyone for giving your uplifting comments. My adult children aren't exactly doing all that well; they have their problems and sometimes it's difficult to watch. But I'm actually quite good about not meddling. I love them all dearly and raised them as a single mom, so they have been my life. And I want my grandbabies around me, and for them to grow up knowing me. But you've all given me some great suggestions. Maybe a move could even bring us closer in some ways! Plus I'd be marrying into a nice new family with children and grandbabies too. But that doesn't replace the love we have for our own. Will#..., you're right, LDS or not doesn't change how a mother feels. I was just thinking it accounted for the mindset of a woman who considers family of the highest importance, that's all. That could be true for a woman of any faith as well. I think I will just do my best to be open, and trust that Heavenly Father knows what is best for me and my family, and that He will lead me down that path if it is where I should go. Thank you for all the great opinions.

Do you think an LDS mother could be happy marrying and moving a distance away from her young adult children. The thought of not being close wrenches my heart. The prospect of having love and a good marriage is pretty enticing, but the compromise in location is hard to cope with. ...None of us would have much money for making very many trips back and forth. ...just wondering if anyone has had any similar experience or words of wisdom.

Thank you Alana, for your reply. I also know several widowers who remarried extremely soon after their wife's passing, and are happily married still. I'm just not sure of the likelihood that my special friend is ready and could do the same. Thanks for your encouraging input. Anyone else have any comments?

If you don't know what to do, DON'T get married until you know for sure. Tell your fiance' you care very much for her, and think you want a life with her (if that's what you feel) but you just aren't ready yet. Be honest and kind. Tell her it won't be fair to her if you marry her until you are sure and ready. If you can't talk to this girl honestly (whether it's your inability or the dynamics of your relationship), you sure shouldn't be marrying her. Ask yourself if you can live with this woman forever. Ask yourself if you can live without her. Which feels better or worse? PRAY about your decision. Talk to a trusted church leader. Can you go to the temple? Praying at the temple could help you know what you want, when it's the right time, and what is right for you. Consider getting counseling about your decision. But most of all, don't go forward with marriage to anyone until you know with certainty you are ready to make the committment to her for the rest of eternity, and work hard to make it work.

How about advice BEFORE marriage...specifically about making a good choice, second marriages, and marriage after being widowed... Any links for those topics?

Are there any sisters who have married a widower and can advise me about involvement with a widower? Or any widowers who are happily remarried? How long does a man take to move forward? I understand everyone heals at their own pace and that there's no way to predict about individual healing time, love, or the future for that matter... But men and women handle pain and grief so differently, and I've heard so much about the woes of waiting for a widower to let go of his deceased wife. I'd especially love to hear some happy endings. I relate to being a widow myself, having lost my first love/husband (after divorce), AND 10 years ago losing my fiance' who I would have married in the temple. It took me 8 (!)years before I was ready to even consider a relationship because I felt content and loved with his spirit close to mine. Now I am pretty badly smitten with my new friend who lost his wife of 35yrs, nearly two years ago. For the first few months of dating, he seemed to be head-over-heels for me too, and coming on quite strong (within proper boundaries--though very motivated for physical intimacy within a projected marriage). Then he suddenly got confused about what he wanted and backed way off, though said he still wants for us to be friends. I gave him his space gracefully, but we've continued to be friends and support and enjoy one another, though less regularly. He seems to fluctuate now from wanting more intimacy, contact, and playfulness with me, to thinking we have no future to investigate and that his family would never understand. Some of the obstacles he's brought up are regular issues most older dating couples deal with: several hours distance, blending homes, older children, and in-laws. I want to continue getting to know him and tackle the challenges together as a team when and if the time comes and it feels right. He's said he doesn't want our friendship to end, but doesn't know if he'll ever be ready. Is it just too soon? I know of several other LDS widowers who are seeking relationships quickly after their losses. I am feeling very vulnerable, but drawn to him in every way. After many years, really since I was a young adult with my first husband, this is the first time I feel this attracted and comfortable about a special man. Anyone whose had experiences on either side, PLEASE advise! Thank you in advance!

These are all very good comments to think about. My only addition would be to pray about it and trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, until you know what you need to do and say. Always speak respectfully about your ex, and always keep your girls' best interest in mind as you act.

I wish I had an answer for you. I would like to find out for myself as well, how it works out. My best guess would be to be as specific in your request as possible; include in your correspondences with the Presidency that you would like the new sealing to be in the month of _____, that you need at least 10 (+/-) weeks after the sealing cancellation to book your wedding reception arrangements so all goes well, so you are hoping and praying to recieve their approval answer by _______. I'm sure it wouldn't be good to pressure them or be demanding, but politely explaining your dilemna never hurts. ..."the squeaky wheel gets the grease." I do know it is difficult to get a cancellation, but if the reason is valid (like abuse, in my case), I think there is a better chance of approval. Good luck, and I hope your new marriage is everything you hope for. :)

I've already written him off... But the puzzling part was that we had several interactions, each time he claimed to be very interested and wanting more contact ...but just came up with urgent excuses (like illness, computer trouble, shoveling snow before dark, etc.) For someone who said he was ALL about integrity, honesty, and good communication, he displayed the exact opposite, and never came through. So he's long gone from my interest list now. If he were truly interested, he would have acted like it by following through. If he wasn't, he should have been upfront and not misleading...Just another example of a fake flake.

Great response Georgie! I am single too, Beefche, and have been for most of my life. And I don't believe it is my fault at all. Yes, I've made some mistakes. I married the wrong guy (in the temple) and have had to pay for that mistake all the rest of my life. I missed marrying the right guy in the temple, and I lost him because I was afraid to take that wonderful gift when it was in front of me, until it was too late (he passed away). All of my responses to life were normal, considering the abnormal things I've been through; all the tragic things that happened TO ME that weren't me fault. We ALL deserve healthy love relationships and eternal companionship. Maybe we will get it in this life, and maybe we will get it in the next. But as we faithfully endure what we agreed to come here to experience, we gain knowledge and feelings that improve us individually, and which we can keep forever. We all deserve love. And we all are loved by a kind and just Heavenly Father, no matter what are fears are, our level of progression, or our circumstances. Fault and blame has no place in the matter. Don't let anyone tell you different.

I have been participating on an lds dating site, and see there is a range of ways guys participate in getting to know a woman ...from slow and independent casual interaction, to overwhelmingly quick involvement. I'm impressed when a guy has enough confidence to move forward participating at a healthy medium. I'm not comfortable when a guy asks for my contact info immediately, without getting to know me first on IM chat and email correspondence. So I'm usually not too interested if the guy isn't willing to invest time and effort into writing. Then again, my flags also go up when a guy emails me several times a day, everyday, and shows insecurities and dependence. My question is, if an extremely PROMISING guy who appears compatible and equally yoked, responds with interest (from his first email and a brief first chat) and indicates he's anxious to write an in depth letter back when he has more time, how long would it be proper etiquette to wait, before trying to send him an email note again to remind him I'm waiting? Knowing he has a very demanding career with long hours and hasn't been online since, would you continue waiting for days, and if so, how many days? Or would another brief message forwarded by email (even though it's his turn to respond to the the last one) after a number of days be flattering and good to encourage him to get back onto the site? I have had some old-school advice that a woman "should" only take a little step equal to the step the guys takes first, and not to be too forward or anxious. Is that old-fashioned, or not? Do guys like to be pursued, or do they still want to be the one pursuing? If you were intrigued and not ready to give up, how many days would you wait, hoping to hear from him?