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Everything posted by PapilioMemnon

  1. Recently a person (Who, I'll refer to as X) came to my place, and in the middle of our trivial conversation, she began talking about another person (who is another member of the LDS Church, and I'll refere to as Z) and some problems they were having (I'm not going to elaborate on what it was since I only know less than half of the story, and have heard only one side). As X began talking about the issue she had with Z, and using some names to describe Z's attitudes/behavior, then I quickly realized that the conversation was changing it's tone, I felt "constrained, uneasy,"and I noticed I couldn't be of any help, X had already decided what she was going to do; she wasn't coming to me to ask for advice. So, to me, it seemd unkind & uncharitable to me to continue the conversation especially since Z was not present and I had no idea of previous issues, and what actually happened. So, kindly, I told X that I understood & acknowledged she was frustrated, but this issue should be resolved with Z directly, and if anything else, she, X, should talk to the Bishop or the RS President (Relief Society) about it. I told her that I felt it would be kind & charitable to Z that we didn't discuss her and her ideas/behavior especially when I don't know her well and she's not present to give her side and defend herself. She seemed to have agreed, and I just changed the conversation to somethign else. I feel she could've told me about the problem in another way, not dropping names and talking about the person's atittude & behavior in a derogatory way or using an analogy to her situation but that I wouldn't be able to clearly identify who she was talking about. I've been feeling very sensitive about this, like, when I realize for what it is. I understand the need to talk to someone about what you're feeling or seek advice, but I feel that gossiping is harsh, mean, unkind, uncharitable, and very detrimental to any relationship; if you hear someone talking bad about someone else about any issue, and the other is not present and can't defend themselves, at some point, this will happen to the "listener" as well. What I find very bad in gossiping, usually, the person who talks about another, will not go back to all those he/she spoke to, to make ammends on behalf of the peron spoken about (If she/he apologized, or tehy worked out...). The image of the other person is "stained,'' even if after the fact, the person who talked in the first place, was wrong or ... If strongly feel that we should approach the person directly and privately to talk about any issue we might have with the person instead of giving our opinions and perceptions of how/why this person is this or that (Since we usually don't make a clear distinction about the person & behavior), and that we learn about a person directly from the person, not someone who might have bad feelings/opinions about him/her as well (I feel that the exceptions to that would be if someone is abusive/violent/criminal/bad intentions and continues doing that, then it's not gossip if you warn others about him/her) Now, when do you feel/know that talking about a problem that involves someone else becomes gossiping? I truly would like to hear several points of view from many different people who would like to share their experiences/ideas/thoughts on the topic regardless of religious beliefs since I don't beleve this is about religion only. It will be greatly appreciated! I also would like to suggest that this is valid as well for us here, members of this board, and not just "real" life interactions. * By the way, this is quite different from talking about someone who is abusive, i.e., please seek help & someone if you're suffering from abuse or is the victm of violence abuse (Of any kind), rape, etc.
  2. PapilioMemnon

    Uncomfortable Doctrine

    Just to clarify, we do believe we are His literal spirit children (Numbers 27:16), not that we were begotten of Him in the flesh. The ONLY one who was, was our Savior & Lord, Jesus Christ.
  3. PapilioMemnon

    Mitt Romney the person, not the politician

    I, usually, more often than not, refrain from making &/or giving opinions about people I'm not personally acquainted and have spend enough time to actually form a round opinion of the person. I tend to do this with everyone, anywhere, including here. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and tend to clearly separate behavior and the core person. With that said, I just know some things about him, about his career as a governor of MA, which I was very surprised..., but then again, I'm still just gathering facts and truths about him, but don't really KNOW him. I find it kind of hard to make an opinion about someone I see on TV under stressful circumstances. He gave me the idea he's very intelligent, and he seems to be business savvy since he funded most of his campaign, if I'm not mistaking (If I am, I know someone will correct me :-P, which believe it or not, I truly appreciate), I didn't see a lot of charisma, but that doesn't necessarily mean something bad. Some people has it, some don't, and they can be good or not. That does not tell me, though, what type of person and member he is. I do like that he sort of opened up the possiblity for people to learn more and become more familiar with The Church, thus sort of, possibly, reducing the negative stigma people see... However, because someone is of my faith, it does not mean that I'd support it though... I'd need to really come to know him more than the little things I know. I think that is a very faulty foundation,i.e., to support someone just because he is a mormon. There are many other people that can be equally or better qualified for the position who is not a mormon, although I truly would like to see a true member of The Church in a position as such. I hope I'm still "within" the rules...
  4. In a very intelligent way, he connected the dots.... Wonderful talk!
  5. PapilioMemnon

    Hi! I'm Kevin. I'm an Apostate.

    You're welcome! Just for the record, I forgot to mention that none of the two persons I mentioned on my post grew up in the Church or are in Church. I was just teasing you... but seriously, your spiritual description there is quite close to one of them!!! Yes,... a spiritual twin... I'd say! A good friend! Have a wonderful day! :)
  6. PapilioMemnon

    Lamanite wars type and shadow for today.

    Hi Georgia, Everytime I read the BOM, I see things clearer... It's definitely written for our days, and for all things we would be facing now. On those chapters, particularly, they emphasize spiritual preparation. On chapter 48:7, while Amalickiach was working on overtime to obtain his goal by fraud and deceit, Moroni's was doing what? Preparing "the minds of people to be faithful unto the Lord their God." I love this principle! We are in about the same conditions as they were; we face a major spiritual war, and physical battles as well, and we find ourselves just before the coming of Christ, just like them. We need to be prepared spiritually not only to resist and combat the evils we face today but also to be prepared to receive the teachings we will have at the time of His coming... The conditions of our hearts and minds will play a great role as it does now! I love the example of Moroni! His faithfulness and trust in God, and also in the Prophet (When he sent his men to go the Alma to find out where the Lamanites had gone and would attack - Alma 43) I love the fact that he placed reminders of the covenant he made everywhere... On chapter 49, as you said, be prepared is the theme; they prepared the cities and were vigilant as they went about "fortifying the weak places" and the "weak became strong.' We certainly need to work on the "weak" spots by presenting them to the Lord and asking for help through the enabling and strengthening power of the Atonement. As Moroni, let us make covenants, keep them, and then, make "swords"! The power of faith in Christ is a priority!!! Chapters 51 - 55 are absolutely fabulous for the many crucial principles they teach! From cleaning the "inner vessel," to not leave "srongholds,'" to knowing the difference between knowing what's true and being true to that knowldege, to being admonished to be vigilant so that we are not "poisoned by degrees..." Those are very important and eye-opening principles. Thanks for helping me review these things!!! I'm preparing Helaman 1-5 this week... sadly, the battles continued...
  7. PapilioMemnon

    Hi! I'm Kevin. I'm an Apostate.

    Hi Kevin... Just thought I'd drop a line....(or a few) I don't happen to know you, right???? hahahaha You sound just like someone I really know; that description fits him perfectly! I used to joke around with him saying that he had a major spiritual identity crisis... Anyways... You seem to be an interesting person with a great sense of humor! I liked the way you "prepared" the territory; it reminded me of another person I know who calls himself an atheist and is known for "preparing" people... with his acute intellect and perceptions; he's a very nice person and very knowledgeable as well! I've had many interesting conversations with them... about their philosophies, ideas, and perceptions... Anyways... be well and take care! Hope you enjoy!
  8. PapilioMemnon

    Accurate Church History as Inoculation

    Hi Moksha, I do know and understand that. Preach The Word; build faith! Faith in The Word is the "slip resistance" foundation!
  9. PapilioMemnon

    Uncomfortable Doctrine

    I don't remember ever hearing any teaching or reading anywhere that we teach that...That's not something we are supposed to seek... And I don't think and believe any of the Prophets ever taught that! But I do believe in what President Snow said and what it leads to as consequence... Our eyes have to be single to the glory OF God. And if we were ever to reach His presence, and become like Him, by all means, we MUST be humble and humble ourselves to Him! It's my belief that no one will make to His presence in arrogance, greed, or seeking celestial material possessions or a throne or to be worshiped! That is completely inconsistent with being LIKE Him. Hoever, it's not inconsistent if we examine the relationship between cause/consequence. I, too, wait for "further knowledge" on this matter... just for knowldege; I'm more concerned with doctrine & knowldege of the things that are required for salvation though...
  10. PapilioMemnon

    Uncomfortable Doctrine

    Misshalfway, I understand what you're saying; this principle that we speak in not "official" doctrine. However, it's a principle we believe in, and jsut because is not made "official,' it doesn't mean is not accepted as doctrine. When porphets speak,... Conference addresses are to be taken as scripture; was that made "official?" You're clear and right about being really specific that we were taught that we are Heavenly Father's spirit children, and the Jesus Christ is His ONLY Begotten Son in the flesh, and in saying that if we reach Exaltation, the highest degree of glory where Heavenly Father and Christ dwell, we will inherit all and be "joint-heirs with Christ." No, there's no scripture that says we will be worshiped; at least, I haven't seen it. But there are several scriptural references that we are addressed as "gods," and we were commanded to become LIKE Him, not ABOVE Him, just LIKE Him. He will ALWAYS be the Almighty, and ABOVE all others. Just a King doesn't stop being a King when he gives the kindgom to a son, and the son becomes LIKE his father, a King as well. Only that, Heavenly Father will ALWAYS be ABOVE any! We are already co-creaters in many aspects... I understand what you're saying, and that you keep specifically stressing is that we draw logical/intelligent conclusions (and I'd say guided by the Spirit), but we don't know much about it beyond that. And that's right! There's something I'd like to mention, but I can't adn won't because it pertains to very sacred ordinance; the sealing ordinance says a lot... Try to remember the words... Thanks for trying to be really specific about it! I appreciate it!
  11. PapilioMemnon

    Uncomfortable Doctrine

    I feel that one of the hardest part of having the office of a "seer, revelator" is to try to unite the many different ways we think & understand to the way Father does; that's one of our goals; if we are to do His will, and become "like, in His likeness" we must see, think, feel, do, understand the way He does. "Be of one mind..." "Be one..." as the Lord became one with Father, in His prayer to Him, He prayed that we would also become one with Them. There are many aspects of the wars between the Nephites and Lamanites (made up of several different groups, and not only direct descents of Laman at this point); in Helaman 4, part of it, says: (Emphasis added) Helaman 4 11 Now this great loss of the Nephites, and the great slaughter which was among them[the Nephites], would not have happened had it not been for their wickedness and their bomination which was among them; yea, and it was among those also who professed to belong to the church of God. 12 And it was because of the pride of their hearts, because of their exceeding briches, yea, it was because of their oppression to the cpoor, withholding their food from the hungry, withholding their clothing from the naked, and smiting their humble brethren upon the cheek, making a dmock of that which was sacred, denying the spirit of prophecy and of revelation, murdering, plundering, lying, stealing, committing adultery, rising up in great contentions, and deserting away into the land of Nephi, among the Lamanites— 13 And because of this their great wickedness, and their aboastings in their own strength, they were left in their own strength; therefore they did not prosper, but were afflicted and smitten, and driven before the Lamanites, until they had lost possession of almost all their lands. 14 But behold, Moronihah did apreach many things unto the people because of their iniquity, and also bNephi and Lehi, who were the sons of Helaman, did preach many things unto the people, yea, and did prophesy many things unto them concerning their iniquities, and what should come unto them if they did not repent of their sins. - Prophecy & revelations - trying to get people to see and understand, but they would not think like them, the prophets who thry to lead us to think and have the understanding and mind of Heavenly Father .... ..... 23 And because of their iniquity the church had begun to adwindle; and they began to disbelieve in the spirit of prophecy and in the spirit of revelation; and the judgments of God did stare them in the face. 24 And they saw that they had become aweak, like unto their brethren, the Lamanites, and that the Spirit of the Lord did no more preserve them; yea, it had withdrawn from them because the Spirit of the Lord doth not bdwell in cunholy dtemples— 25 Therefore the Lord did cease to preserve them by his miraculous and matchless power, for they had fallen into a state of aunbelief and awful wickedness; and they saw that the Lamanites were exceedingly more numerous than they, and except they should bcleave unto the Lord their God they must unavoidably perish. 26 For behold, they saw that the strength of the Lamanites was as great as their strength, even man for man. And thus had they fallen into this great transgression; yea, thus had they become aweak, because of their transgression, in the space of bnot many years. Because of their unbelief in the words of the prophets and revelation.... Because of dissenssions, contentions, deserting away among others who didn't believe .... the cause/consequence are clear. I often wonder why did He call prophets if we all could interpret and follow our "own understanding" and we all would be right. To the OP (Sorry I can't remember if it's Fiona or not), I understand that you don't quite understand this principle, but there are several, several scriptural references that support it (I have posted them on another thread and can't remember where. Message me if you're interested; the New Testament is full of references); it will take time to study them and ponder them, and then, Heavenly Father can deepen your understanding of those things; only He can help you "see' these spiritual truths if you want Him to show it to you. Remember, you are an agent unto yourself; no one can impose and make you "see" or "feel' something if you don't allow it. I think and feel it's wise for you to prayerfully analyze your feelings about feeling very "uncomfortable with this doctrine" and how this person "made you feel." It will reveal things to you about you, and that should be personal, and I beleive that none of us can do it for you. What a leader says or not, or the way they do it, if we have sustained them, we should be careful with how WE take that. I have mentioned this before in other posts, and someone )I can't recall, sorry) mentioned it again, all things we hear/receive from our leaders should be with/through the Spirit and all things shloud prayerfully pondered;' the instructor,speaker has the obligation to speak/teach/preach by the Holy ghost, and so does the hearer/student/receiver; we have to learn to hear actively and receive things throught the Spirit (I think D&C 50 explains that) Doctrine and Covenants 50 Verses 13-24 Sometimes is not the speaker/teacher/preacher that are not in tune, but the hearers/students/ that are not in tune with the Spirit and receiving it through Him. Understanding things take time; we should prayerfully study and explore through the Spirit of God, persist upon, and patiently wait for the understanding to come to us that ONLY God can reveal and give. Our ideas/thoughts/feelings about things are not necessarily Heavenly Father's, unless we have learned to "receive it through the Spirit of Father, know Him, spiritually discern His ways, and come to have His mind." I feel that if you'll prayerfully study the scriptures that touch this subject, and ask of God, and wait upon Him while you continue to study, ask questions, search, evaluate your own feelings, He will expand that principle to you... and you'll "see...' Don't block something, the teachings of prophets because of your own feelings/thoughts/understanding about it. Rather, try analyzing, searching, pondering, reading more on the subject, and asking of God Himself to enlighten you and your understanding. Remember: Prov. 3: 5 5 aTrust in the Lord with all thine bheart; and lean not unto thine cown dunderstanding.. Proverbs 4 7 aWisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get bunderstanding. Best regards and wishes to you!
  12. How interesting that dressing modestly now shocks people!!! But how great it is that is on the news... I hope this trend is here to stay, and that it spreads... Mom shocked by teen's modest clothing -
  13. PapilioMemnon

    singles ads

    :roflmbo: :roflmbo:
  14. PapilioMemnon

    Mom shocked by teen's modest clothing

  15. PapilioMemnon

    Sad Gorilla story

    Poor her... Just because animals don't speak, it doesn't mean they don't feel it... (I felt like crying... I have tears in my eyes...)
  16. PapilioMemnon

    Exercising Faith

    Faith is one of my favorite subjects! "...Faith involves the exercise of moral agency to act upon the assurance of things hoped for and invites the evidence of things not seen from the only true teacher, the Spirit of the Lord." (Elder David E. Bednar, "Seek Learning By Faith," 3 Feb. 2006)
  17. PapilioMemnon

    Understanding Isaiah - Hard to Impossible

    2 Nephi was one of my favorite books when I first read the BOM, and I absolutely love Isaiah! He's one of my favorite prophets; I love the way he wrote! Years after that, I purchased the OT Student Manuals from ldscatalg (Manuals for Institute) and was more acquainted with the "manner of prophesying" & the regions; it made it easier to understand certain things that pertained to their time and then I could "see' what Isaiah was trying to convey or comparing it to. Don't give up; understanding Isaiah's prophecies is a must for us! Once your eyes are "open,' you'll discover how wonderful it is! Welcome
  18. PapilioMemnon

    Can anyone start a matchmaking activity on internet.

    Thanks Puf the MD... I'll check it out and pass it on to some young friends of mine to join. I just posted because I thought it was a cool place and might be interesting to other people. I went there and checked it out a bit, but I'm no longer there; I'm not really into online dating
  19. PapilioMemnon


    Tamrajh, I think people use "proud" to express the satisfaction and great joy we feel and take in our children when they choose to do something good and right. Connerific, this is indeed a GREAT talk! Pride is much more than what we think of it to be, the common elements we normally think it is. And we must be very careful with it because it is spiritually deteriorating... it does kill the spirit!
  20. PapilioMemnon

    Praise to the Man...Joseph Smith

    Yes... you reminded me of Phelps, and yes, what his actions caused... but what I love to see all the time is when he repents and gathers the courage to ask for forgiveness... It's profound... and... when the Joseph Smith replies... and reaches out for him... and how he receives him back... It's one of the most amazing moments I had while pondering this experience he had. Now... my heart is full.... Amazing...
  21. PapilioMemnon

    Praise to the Man...Joseph Smith

    One story that comes to mind is the way he handled when people, mob, took him to the street, and put tar and feathers on him.... .... .... and how the next day, this man went to church, didn't address it, and just went on about Heavenly Father's business. What he didn't say speaks volumes though... (And I sometimes miss Church because of a bad night of sleep or headache... I have yet to grow so much.... ) While suffering in jail with others, his thoughts were turned to the suffering of the saints that were being persecuted... I absolutely find it fascinating, touching, beyond words... the revelation he received while in Liberty jail, when He was reflecting upon the harships & sorrows he and all others were going through, and the Lord gave him section 122... (This section helps me so much...) Another is regarding his endurance, faith, and long-suffering each time his children died... and Emma's attitude as well... They were both so great! The faith to endure these things... ... and go on... Yes Misshalfway... I too feel the same way about the part when he's going there, and he tells her he's not coming back this time... The silent speech is much louder Candyprpl... I too, at one point, didn't have the strong testimony and knowledge I have now of the Prophet Joseph Smith. I sincerely know I didn't gain it sooner because I really didn't try and work on it; I KNEW the Church was true, and that the BOM also was, so I just really didn't seek a testimony of the prophet. I realized somethign was amiss when I couldn't say that I KNEW he was a prophet and had been called to restore the Church and would never testify of him particularly, I just accepted him because of the testimony of the other things. When I decided to actually ask Heavenly Father about Him particurlarly, and began to study and ponder his life... some weeks later.... WOW... I received much more that I had expected and/or anticipated.... Heavenly Father does answer... and the Holy Ghost does testifies... and the testimony of the Holy Ghost is extremely powerful and unforgettable!!! Now, there's nothing or no one that can take from me this knowledge... because it didn't come from men, but from On High.... I suggest you seek one, that you call upon Heavenly Father and ask Him to reveal it to you, and go do your part, study and ponder his life... watch movies about His life, ponder what he did in the grove, his prayer, his words, etc... I am sure you will get one according to your faith and Heavenly Father's will and timing. Just keep the faith, be "firm and undaunted."
  22. PapilioMemnon

    Praise to the Man...Joseph Smith

    bytor2112, You just hijacked my idea!!!! I just had to tell you that you literally "read" my mind!!! Even the title of the thread... I was just humming this hymn thinking about the same, exactly thoughts you had and posted!!!! That's truly amazing!!! You beat me to it!!! Yes... Praise to the man! I just have to say that when I read his stories, I'm taken back by his courage, boldness, perseverance, and humbleness! I KNOW he was/is a prophet of Heavenly Father, and was called to restore His Church in this last dispensation! No, I don't know all things about him, but what I DO KNOW sufficeth me! I may not understand all things the way he did, like Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, David, Solomon.... nevertheless, I KNOW they were men called to be prophets, and the crucial message lives on regardless of several things: Heavenly Father lives! Jesus Christ lives, was, and is the only Begotten of Heavenly Father, our Savior and Redeemer!!! Heavenly Father still reveals His will to us through prophets as He did before! And I KNOW of these things because the Holy Ghost does testify of them. Take care!!!
  23. PapilioMemnon

    Accurate Church History as Inoculation

    Hi Moksha, I feel that since faith is the first principle of the gospel, faith should be the primary focus. Faith is based in truth about things that edify and brings us closer to God, who does exist and it is a fact, and that is also a truth that many question because men decided that only things that can be scientifically proven is fact; nonetheless, God does not cesae to exist because of the ignorance of mankind. Spiritual information is the focus; "we preach of Christ, we testify of Christ,," we focus on Christ! That does not mean that facts and truth about the history of the Church cannot be questioned, asked, answered in proper ways and truthfully. However, truth can be utilized as a double-edge sword, and many people do that; I have seen that in many posts here! In the history of any kind, including our own personal history, there are facts that we talk disclose, and some we don't necessarily talk about until asked or brought up. Why is that? To mislead, as other people have suggested? NO! Imagine if I get to know you, first, by the facts someone else knows and presents about you that are not good and/or obscure, and /or difficult, especially since all this person has is the facts, which is truth, but facts without context is not useful, good, and it can be dangerous and mislead as well! Knowing that you did or behaved or acted this way, just tells me that you did, but the tone and interpretation, perception of the person who is relating this to me, aside from my own way to view things, can do much damage to your image! People rarely tells facts without staining others image, and they also rarely tells the WHOLE thing because they might not even know themselves. How can they know your motivations, state of mind, perceptions, decision of why or not you decided to do something that APPEARS so problematic in general... people rarely know all that, and rarely PASS this information to others when they actually do know something about it! I might decide never to get to know you, to approach you because of what has already been said about you even though it didn't come from you! People rarely go to the source to really get to know things as accurately as possible; people rarely are not influenced by the tone and interpretations of others! In the case I presented, I can easily clear up, if I decide to actually approach you and get to know you from being with you, learning of Moksha from Moksha, not from A, B, or C. So, if I were to, first, meet you and get to know you directly from you and people you associate with, that if you didn't spill ALL the embarassing, difficult, sad, absurd, controversial, sins, etc... about you to "inoculate' me, would that mean that you were trying to mislead me and presenting me with a fraud? I don't think so! Now, about Church History and the many controversial stuff: If Joseph Smith was trying to hide anything, why in the world would he place the revelation(s) on D&C? Why would he place so many revelations of the Lord rebuking Him, punishing Him, and others for their lack of judgement, behavior, etc.? Would it be better to just skip them? We could have never known the fact that he gave in to the persuasions of men when he handed the manuscripts to martin Harris, and never know the Lord severely rebuked him for "fearing more men than God Himself!" Now, is the Church/leaders trying to hide things? NO; D&C is out there, people can read it! There are several other books that mentions the same things from LDS Scholars, Apostles, etc. Again, all people need to do is seek and learn for themselves, hopefully, prayerfully with faith, seeking knowledge and understanding. Now, can I approach Joseph Smith, or BY, or whomever to know exactly why he did things this way or that way; why he didn't approach it this way or that way; bla, bla,bla... Can I know of themselves from themselves? Are they here to tell me? Would they? If God has not given revelations to justify every exact reason why HE HIMSELF does this or that, this way or not, to justify HIS ways to us and make Himself more justifiable, likable, understood in OUR eyes... why would He do that to Joseph? Have you or any of you thought about why the prophets do not speak about some things no matter what's happening around them? Have you ever stopped to think and ponder why the prophets don't approach this subject? Is there any conference that we hear them addressing these things? Are they about to do them? Do you recall the GC that followed the attacks of 9/11? How many of them, of GA's were dwelling on fear, or faults, or those events? It was barely spoken of... If I'm not mistaking, Pres. Hinckley briefly mentioned it! What are the things they do try to concentrate on? Faith in The Word! Dwelling on conflicts of any kind or faults, on negative things, and things that are not completely known (motivations, intentions, etc...) are not helpful or profitable!!! Think about it....!!!! I think they are wise men and women and they know what's important to address! It's wise for us (Members) to do the same, and take counsel from the anointed of Heavenly Father, and not try to counsel, with our limited vision and perceptions, neither one! If Heavenly Father has not direct them to address ALL the issues there's a reason why; it's wise to ponder that and "get understanding!" You'll believe that if you do believe they are called of Heavenly Father, and if you do know that for yourself! And I feel that if it ever becomes needed, Heavenly Father will have the ones He called to the office to do that well and His way! On Alma 43-63, the war chapters, even though they are have several confilcts and wars, who began those wars? Who were the Lamanites in that case (What groups joined them)? What did Helaman do seeing there were more wars to come? Who was Amalickiah? He had a goal, and got it, but how? He actually said the truth and used truth many times? Righteously?... that's another matter then... How did Moroni behave in the middle of conflicts? Did he do anything but promote faith and testify of God and stand as a witness of Him at all times? What about Ammoron? How did respond to Moroni's letter? Did he use "truth?" For what purpose? Who did the Lamanites choose, from all the groups, their chief captains and why? When Korihor began creating havoc among the Church in Zarahemla, and "preaching" his views, since "there was NO RULES against a man's beliefs", MANY people of the Church followed him. Why? When He attempted to do the same thing to the Anti-Lehi-Nephi people or the People of Ammon in the Land of Jershon, was he successful? What was the difference? Alma 30 There are several crucial lessons there that would be very wise for members of the Church, particularly, to learn and apply! The past is past for a reason; as President Monson said, "Learn from the past, look to the future, live in the present!" Dwelling on past things, especially on things we have some facts, but really, barely any context to go with it, and especially on what seems to be the weaknesses or faults, obscure behavior of others, IS NOT something helpful, edifying, and uplifiting!!! That is not the point and goal of the Church! Truth, facts, can be manipulated and mislead as well, depending who uses them and to what purpose. So, I do view inoculation with some skepticism especially the motivation of the source from where those "truths and facts" are coming from! Threads/posts that are not uplifting and edifying, and not "faith promoting" serves no purpose in my opinion, and can "lead the hearts of many...."! Since the site is not mine, I respect the decisons some people have made, and after a few months of observation and some participation, I'm considering making some decisions as well... And those are my feelings and thoughts about it! I hope I answered your post! Sorry if it was too long!
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    Mom shocked by teen's modest clothing

    Yes, indeed!!! I acquainted with some! Including my own!
  25. PapilioMemnon

    9th Article of Faith

    It's upon this principle that Heavenly Father works! That we can know things for ourselves! I know that we can receive direct information for our personal benefit and for those we are responsible for. There's an order, a pattern that we need to learn to discern revelation, if it's from God or not. The prophet, as Heavenly Father's mouthpiece, receives revelation for the whole Church in all things. However, he's not the only one who can receive revelation; we all can, but for our personal things, and callings, not for others, not for others that are not under our responsibility or responsibilities we do not have. This principle allows me to approach our Heavenly Father with the confidence that He will reveal to me His will, answer my questions (of things that are expedient and I need to know now), confirm counsels, lead me to choose the right, discern things, right from not so obvious wrong, even discern the intentions of people if I need to know to protect myself and my children, etc... HD, your comment reminded me of a talk where Elder Bednar mentioned "...commandments not a few..." Doctrine and Covenants 59 It's just so amazing how He DOES reveal more things to us... as we pay heed, and obey things already revealed... as we deepen our understanding, and as He sees that we are ready to receive some more... HG, yes, we can know for ourselves, and that's how marvelous all this is!!! Joseph Smith never imposed in anyone or said they had to accept what he said as is; he taught them to ask and learn for themselves; he never took credit, was glad (and relieved I suppose) that others were also allowed to see the plates, angels, etc.... and stand as a witness with him! That takes humbleness! When we hear counsel from our leaders, we should prayerfully ponder them, and ask of Heavenly Father to confirm it, and that's why we are not blind followers! Thank you for making that point! I know the Lord revealed Himself to Joseph Smith and answered His humble prayer and that He was the prophet that Restored the Gospel and the Church again, with all the keys, principles, teachings, and doctrine ; I know that Jesus is the Christ; that President Monson is a true prophet; that the Book of Mormon is true, a true record and another testament of Jesus Christ. I know all this because I have asked, and have received confirmations throughout time, over and over, and continue to receive them. I know because Heavenly Father still speaks to us, and leads us, and He DOES reveal His will still! The Holy Ghost DOES confirm, teach, truth, and bring them to our remembrance! I am thankful and grateful for Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, and for this wonderful, great and marvelous work of the Restoration! Links: Topical Guide: Scriptures to Come Forth Articles of Faith 1: 9