skippy740

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  1. Like
    skippy740 reacted to JohnsonJones in a TEST is coming   
    Leftist values IS talking politics.
     I would counter and say I do not think you understand what leftist values are either.
    IT is SAD when one cannot tell the difference between their own political leanings and the gospel of the Lord.
    Both sides of the political spectrum have their problems, trying to blame it all on one side while ignoring the problems of the other is a prime way to deceive oneself until the day they need to truly make that choice between religion or politics.
    I know your statements may offend some who are on what we call the leftist side of the political spectrum.  As someone who would say I'm liberal and a leftist compared to much in Mormondom...I might even say your statement was a direct attack on my political values.  I don't think that's a good thing.  We may have different political leanings, but we should both be brothers in the LORD. 
    The Lord is neither on the right, nor on the left, but we may be on the right hand or the left hand.  The Lord is neither rightest nor leftist, but rules over all men. The falling away isn't something that deals with leftist values, or conservative values, or whatever you have, but more of something that deals with each individuals testimony.  There is a great deal these days that try to destroy the testimonies of members, and it are those things that are causing the great sieve in the church.  This thing is probably necessary for the church, but I think all of us should be saddened when we see members fall away from the church into apostasy or anti-Mormon hatred.
    I would agree though, that though I think it's begun, it is probably going to continue until the second coming of the Lord.  I would hope that we've seen the worst of it already, but in all likelihood it will get worse if the book of Revelation or Nephi occurs like many interpret it.
  2. Like
    skippy740 reacted to pam in Looking for advice, not judgement   
    So I've now read through this entire thread.  And I will say that I see both sides of the responses that are being given.  But one thing I want to say and we say this quite often here on the forums.  When you come to a random internet forum (LDS or not) you can expect a variety of responses.  Not all of them are going to be what you want to see or what you want to hear.  And we will allow a variety of responses unless they start breaking some of the site rules that we have set into place.  So far none of the responses meet that criteria.  
    Many times responses are given because that person or someone very close to them have gone through the same situation.  Now I'm NOT saying that is the case here because I don't know and frankly it is none of my business.  Believe me.  I have some subjects that just push my buttons and because they are something I am passionate about, I voice my opinion even if it goes against the grain.  It's just how we as humans are.
    Putting a disclaimer or a rule in the title such as "no judgment" won't stop people from having opinions or expressing their perspectives on a situation.  It's like saying, "I want to hear what you have to say but only if it is something I want to hear."    In fact many times it fuels it more than stops it.  It's the nature of an internet forum.   But we can't ask people to leave unless they are breaking site rules as I mentioned earlier.  And that can only come from the moderating staff.  
    What I get from the OP is you are asking about what kind of action, disciplinary or other, you might receive for your actions with another.  To be honest, none of us can tell you that.  We are not your  Bishop.  We don't hold any stewardship over you.  Only your Bishop can guide you and direct you and decide what action might need to be taken.  
    Having a porn addiction can cause problems in a marriage.  By your own admission you stated that he came to you months before your got married and admitted he had a problem with it.  Getting married doesn't just magically make that addiction go away.  The same can be said with any other addiction.  
    You mentioned he is a wonderful husband that treats you like a Queen and is a wonderful father to your child.  That's such a glowing compliment to him in a world where some just don't take marriage and parenthood that seriously.  
    I guess what I really want to say is, it sounds like both of you have issues right now that are affecting your marriage.  That's really what it boils down to.  Both of you need to work on your individual issues.  Both of you need to have some long serious talks with your Bishop and follow his counsel.  Both of you also need to have some long serious talks with our Father in Heaven.  I'm sure you are already doing that.  
    And again, keep in mind this is a public internet forum.  If you are going to come and lay your problems down for the world to see and expect only kind, thoughtful, and encouraging words it doesn't always happen.  The forums are filled with different people with different life experiences and many times give their opinion based on those experiences.  
    I truly do wish you the best and hope that both of you can receive the help you need.  It does sound like there is still much hope and love in your marriage.  
  3. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from JohnsonJones in What is doctrine and what is not?   
    Unless your definition of canonization is different from mine, the LDS Church DOES have an official process of accepting scripture:
    https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/sections-21-29/section-26-the-law-of-common-consent?lang=eng
     
  4. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Rob Osborn in a TEST is coming   
    I'm reminded of a recent article where church members were choosing to go to an "alternative" conference and they were deciding on commandments and things.  For example - making the Word of Wisdom as counsel rather than as commandment.  I can't find the article, but they are redefining many things to create their own "customized" faith.
    Who knows where they are.  I may have some different views than some, but I'm not looking to lead anyone away from the Church.  Only to think differently and consider an alternative view.
  5. Like
    skippy740 reacted to JoCa in Looking for advice, not judgement   
    Amen to this again. I would amend it that it's not just confined to wives but also husbands (as in there are some husbands who are a parent to their wife-again not good) . ..but I agree that I think in general it has targeted more women.  We say things like SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) as if the wife is the parent in the relationship . .. ridiculous.
    In the God ordained marriage the man is supposed to me the head of the household, not the woman.  A man who is using porn is abrogating his responsibility to lead his family in righteousness.  But for a wife to force their husband to be righteous as in nagging b/c of pornography is upsetting the natural order of things. She can encourage, uplift, discuss how she feels hurt by it (which I totally get), etc. But when she takes responsibility to ensure her husband is not using pornography she oversteps the bounds.  
    The proper authority who nags or tells the man to quit using pornography is God, through the Holy Ghost and through proper priesthood leaders such as a Bishop, Elder's Quorum President, etc.
  6. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from jerome1232 in Looking for advice, not judgement   
    You've already received the encouragement, guidance, and counsel, so I won't go there.
    I cannot take away the hurt.  In fact, I'm going to make it a bit deeper: 
    You physically became what you were afraid of your husband doing to you emotionally, virtually, that could also lead to physically.
    Why?  Because you let FEAR into your marriage.  Sure, you can blame his habit, and I can blame the church for teaching paranoia about it, but you have to take responsibility for your own reaction.
    2 Timothy 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
    Personally, I think the women in the church are 'trained' to be 'parents' to their husbands, to withhold sex if he has a problem, to leave and abandon him when he could need her spirit the most, and to consider it grounds for DIVORCE.  (What happened to 'in sickness and in health'?  It's turned into "unless he has a pornography problem".)  The women in the church who think this COULD be cowards and spineless about all this.  This is why you think you're less attractive and he's less attractive to you - you changed into a PARENT instead of being his WIFE.  You're EMASCULATING him while trying to heal yourself.  How can that help anything?
    Yes, pornography is far worse than it was 50 years ago when it was just magazines under the bed.  But the paranoia around it... I think is uncalled for.
    Consider this:  there are healthy marriages where they both drink alcohol and smoke.  As long as it is not abused, their marriage is okay.  No, it's not a Celestial marriage, but it can be a fully functioning marriage with love in it.  How do I know?  I have non-member family and they smoke and drink... and they've been together for at least 35 years.  It can be done.  (Yes, he can get drunk, but he's still responsible about it and he's NEVER abused his kids or his wife.)  Of course, as LDS with the WoW, we also say "why take the chance?"
    Can you have a loving marriage with pornography?  I won't say yes or no, but I will say that I'm sure it can be done, if you love him for him... and not just his worthiness.  Pornography will interfere with having a Celestial standard of marriage... with potential eternal consequences.  But to have to leave?  I think that's overkill.
     
    Don't ask me how I know all this.  I just do.
  7. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Vort in Looking for advice, not judgement   
    You've already received the encouragement, guidance, and counsel, so I won't go there.
    I cannot take away the hurt.  In fact, I'm going to make it a bit deeper: 
    You physically became what you were afraid of your husband doing to you emotionally, virtually, that could also lead to physically.
    Why?  Because you let FEAR into your marriage.  Sure, you can blame his habit, and I can blame the church for teaching paranoia about it, but you have to take responsibility for your own reaction.
    2 Timothy 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
    Personally, I think the women in the church are 'trained' to be 'parents' to their husbands, to withhold sex if he has a problem, to leave and abandon him when he could need her spirit the most, and to consider it grounds for DIVORCE.  (What happened to 'in sickness and in health'?  It's turned into "unless he has a pornography problem".)  The women in the church who think this COULD be cowards and spineless about all this.  This is why you think you're less attractive and he's less attractive to you - you changed into a PARENT instead of being his WIFE.  You're EMASCULATING him while trying to heal yourself.  How can that help anything?
    Yes, pornography is far worse than it was 50 years ago when it was just magazines under the bed.  But the paranoia around it... I think is uncalled for.
    Consider this:  there are healthy marriages where they both drink alcohol and smoke.  As long as it is not abused, their marriage is okay.  No, it's not a Celestial marriage, but it can be a fully functioning marriage with love in it.  How do I know?  I have non-member family and they smoke and drink... and they've been together for at least 35 years.  It can be done.  (Yes, he can get drunk, but he's still responsible about it and he's NEVER abused his kids or his wife.)  Of course, as LDS with the WoW, we also say "why take the chance?"
    Can you have a loving marriage with pornography?  I won't say yes or no, but I will say that I'm sure it can be done, if you love him for him... and not just his worthiness.  Pornography will interfere with having a Celestial standard of marriage... with potential eternal consequences.  But to have to leave?  I think that's overkill.
     
    Don't ask me how I know all this.  I just do.
  8. Like
    skippy740 reacted to Just_A_Guy in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    To me, I think that Christofferson's return to the Church IS a major theme of the story; even if he himself chooses not to present it thus.  I mean, yes, we continue those relationships of love with wandering family members for their own sakes; but in the grand scheme of things the point is that sooner or later the tentacles of divine providence catch up with them (and if they don't, then the eternal potential of those relationships remains perpetually stunted to some degree).  
     @JoCa strikes me as being partially correct; insofar that these warm fuzzies about "acceptance" tend to evaporate the minute the Church says "thus far and no further"; and at such times what had been acknowledged as love and support suddenly gets recharacterized as some sort of cynical masquerade.  I suppose the trick is--you love wanderers for their own sake and try to avoid coming across as if you see them as merely some sort of "project"; but you also never stop praying that they'll allow the Atonement to turn them into something better than the goals they've currently set for themselves.
    Between this experience and that of Bennett and Becky Borden, I think maybe we are being shown that there *is* a way to reclaim folks who have allowed themselves to be swallowed up in homosexuality.  Maybe their experiences do leave scars in the form of incorrect thinking patterns and self-identities that persist even after the behavior has been shunned (it would be interesting to know whether Christofferson now has a testimony that gay relationships are per se contrary to God's plan; or whether he just sees himself as jumping through an arbitrary and temporary hoop to claim a higher spiritual plane.  I also want to know why in Sam Hill it's supposed to be a "blessing" to be gay; and whether Christofferson would also say--or be comfortable with someone else saying--that it's a "blessing" to be straight.  If I'm not supposed to stereotype, and "anyone" can be gay and my "gaydar" shouldn't be tripped by speech patterns, dress styles, interests, supposed effeminacy, etc; then what exactly *does* constitute being "gay" other than sexual attraction?).  
    But, typical progressivist doublespeak aside, the key to me is--they came back.  They ended sinful relationships out of a desire to pursue something better.  And they weren't beaten into it by a series of relational, economic, or health setbacks--they just realized, for various reasons, that there wasn't enough God in the choices they had been making; and then Church members loved them the rest of the way back.  What a story!
    Mormonism used to be a green field in the middle of a desert, and it didn't take much to keep sheep in the fold or to herd the wanderers back where they belonged.  But Satan's spent the last thirty years seeding the desert with locoweed and then keeping the sick sheep from finding their way home.  It may be that the best strategy for today is to re-design the sheepfold gate in a way that still deters exit but also facilitates re-entry for those lost sheep who finally realize they've been gorging themselves on spiritual junk food.  I think I'll spend some time trying to understand how the shepherds are trying to rebuild the gate, before I start sniping about how different this gate is from the old one.
  9. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Jane_Doe in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    I wanted to add that it's NOT the fact that Tom came back into the membership of the Church that I find fascinating.  That's a complete by-product of this whole thing.  I also had no idea that Tom was rebaptized and returned to the Church until I read these articles.
    I wanted to learn from another family who successfully raised their children, and integrated their faith along with welcoming and loving their same-sex attracted son and his partner into their lives.  Quite frankly, I'm not sure I'm "big enough" to do that, but learning from another family AND ward family of how and why they did it has been of interest to me.  I would think it would be of interest for anyone who has ever served in a leadership capacity.  I would imagine that some members of Tom's ward/stake probably went to their bishop to discuss "their" concerns, and that the Bishop would've had to counsel with them.  
    It's the journey and the other people I find interesting, not the fact that Tom came back into the Church.
  10. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Jane_Doe in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    This is a similar article, but different.  
    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.html
    I wanted to highlight this particular paragraph:

    This should be an interesting program to watch.
  11. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Sunday21 in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    I've been away from the forum for quite some time.  When I last visited, there were (and I'm sure there still are) some threads addressing same sex attraction, family acceptance, and other topics.  I remember reaching out to a member of the Christofferson family a few years ago, but she never responded back to me.  (Wasn't sure if I was treading on something too hard to share, or if she never really got my message.)  I genuinely wanted to know how their family dealt with such a hot topic for so long.
    This article embodies a GREAT example for us and how we can and should treat our family members - particularly those who have same-sex attraction.  I found the motives to be right - we are going to keep our family together through love and acceptance.
    http://www.ldsliving.com/One-Gay-Man-s-Powerful-Journey-Away-from-the-Church-and-Back-Again/s/86366
    I look forward to reading Tom's book when it becomes available (I prefer Kindle books whenever possible).  I would guess that it would be a decent reference for families and church leaders on how we should BE when relating to those with same-sex attraction.
     
    I suggest, that for any family that is dealing with this, to consider this article as how we should be - not that it will change things - but so we can be the kind of people we should be, so others may want to be like us and see the Light of Christ shown in our lives.
  12. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from SilentOne in Non-Mormon Wants to Live by Mormons   
    One of the reasons for a low divorce rate... is due to shared faith.  Let me share with you a scripture:
    2 Nephi 5:23  And cursed shall be the seed of him that amixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
    The footnote on "mixeth" is TG (Topical Guide) Marriage, Interfaith.  
    Now, the "curse" is a separation from God.  It's far easier to be closer to God as a family unit when you don't have potential conflicts of faith.  
    If you're planning on marrying an LDS woman, you should consider making yourself more 'compatible' for the marriage that they would want - one in an LDS temple.  If you don't, then you may have a shaky marriage due to the lack of temple attendance and other things that married LDS couples do to strengthen their faith, their marriages, and their families.
    Let me be very frank with you:  Utah does sometimes (unfortunately) have some racist tendencies.  I've heard too many reports of those of African descent who visited Utah, only to hear racial epithets and to be stared at like they're freaks or something.  And one of these reports was a friend of mine and was called a n***** by a child with NO correction by their parent.  That tells me that, for SOME, Utah has some room to grow in this area - especially if it's being taught to their children.  Racism is a viscous attitude that is still in a SMALL MINORITY of members, but it's a vice that can be carried INTO the church AND the temple, almost without apology.  (At least if members have other vices, they don't smoke at church or bring their pornography.)  (I'm part of a member-oriented group that focuses on these issues, so we hear about these stories far more than just about any member otherwise would.)
    Obviously, Utah would not hire me to be an Ambassador for their state, but it's something that you may find interesting comparing Illinois to Utah.  So while you're looking to become one with the "birds of a feather to flock together" to help keep your marriage together in a like-minded community, it's not all a "bed of roses" either.  There are still some thorns.  They may just be better at hiding them.
  13. Like
    skippy740 reacted to pam in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    Wait.  Are my eyes deceiving me?  Does it say that skippy posted?  Wow...welcome back dude.
  14. Haha
    skippy740 got a reaction from Jane_Doe in HELP ME SAVE MY MARRIAGE   
    Lol - I just realized that the thread itself is 4 months old, but I hope someone finds this useful.
  15. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from MrShorty in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    I wanted to add that it's NOT the fact that Tom came back into the membership of the Church that I find fascinating.  That's a complete by-product of this whole thing.  I also had no idea that Tom was rebaptized and returned to the Church until I read these articles.
    I wanted to learn from another family who successfully raised their children, and integrated their faith along with welcoming and loving their same-sex attracted son and his partner into their lives.  Quite frankly, I'm not sure I'm "big enough" to do that, but learning from another family AND ward family of how and why they did it has been of interest to me.  I would think it would be of interest for anyone who has ever served in a leadership capacity.  I would imagine that some members of Tom's ward/stake probably went to their bishop to discuss "their" concerns, and that the Bishop would've had to counsel with them.  
    It's the journey and the other people I find interesting, not the fact that Tom came back into the Church.
  16. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Sunday21 in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    This is a similar article, but different.  
    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.html
    I wanted to highlight this particular paragraph:

    This should be an interesting program to watch.
  17. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from seashmore in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    This is a similar article, but different.  
    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.html
    I wanted to highlight this particular paragraph:

    This should be an interesting program to watch.
  18. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Jane_Doe in LDSLiving: One Gay Man's Powerful Journey Away From the Church and Back Again   
    I've been away from the forum for quite some time.  When I last visited, there were (and I'm sure there still are) some threads addressing same sex attraction, family acceptance, and other topics.  I remember reaching out to a member of the Christofferson family a few years ago, but she never responded back to me.  (Wasn't sure if I was treading on something too hard to share, or if she never really got my message.)  I genuinely wanted to know how their family dealt with such a hot topic for so long.
    This article embodies a GREAT example for us and how we can and should treat our family members - particularly those who have same-sex attraction.  I found the motives to be right - we are going to keep our family together through love and acceptance.
    http://www.ldsliving.com/One-Gay-Man-s-Powerful-Journey-Away-from-the-Church-and-Back-Again/s/86366
    I look forward to reading Tom's book when it becomes available (I prefer Kindle books whenever possible).  I would guess that it would be a decent reference for families and church leaders on how we should BE when relating to those with same-sex attraction.
     
    I suggest, that for any family that is dealing with this, to consider this article as how we should be - not that it will change things - but so we can be the kind of people we should be, so others may want to be like us and see the Light of Christ shown in our lives.
  19. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Vort in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Well, I've finally determined that "Facebook" is the "court of public opinion".
     
    I know that if everyone was sitting in a room, that we'd be more cordial and polite about each other's beliefs than what I'm seeing on Facebook lately.
     
    So... I've decided to delete my account. 
    I'm tired of debate without results. 
    I'm tired of judgment being passed without an OUNCE of understanding our doctrines or of the legal consequences of such decisions. 
    I'm tired of "pointless" defending of my faith when it doesn't matter.
    And I'm tired of having to hear about little details about my faith or my church and somehow, it's up to everyone else to talk about how "wrong" or "evil" it is.
     
    So, I'm simply abdicating my position from the debates.  There's nothing in the scriptures that says that you HAVE to debate with people in order to be a good example of the faith.
     
    Yes, I can debate and teach the doctrinal points of our doctrines... but I don't have to.  And I choose not to be baited into these things anymore.
  20. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Sunday21 in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Well, I've finally determined that "Facebook" is the "court of public opinion".
     
    I know that if everyone was sitting in a room, that we'd be more cordial and polite about each other's beliefs than what I'm seeing on Facebook lately.
     
    So... I've decided to delete my account. 
    I'm tired of debate without results. 
    I'm tired of judgment being passed without an OUNCE of understanding our doctrines or of the legal consequences of such decisions. 
    I'm tired of "pointless" defending of my faith when it doesn't matter.
    And I'm tired of having to hear about little details about my faith or my church and somehow, it's up to everyone else to talk about how "wrong" or "evil" it is.
     
    So, I'm simply abdicating my position from the debates.  There's nothing in the scriptures that says that you HAVE to debate with people in order to be a good example of the faith.
     
    Yes, I can debate and teach the doctrinal points of our doctrines... but I don't have to.  And I choose not to be baited into these things anymore.
  21. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from Sunday21 in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Just share this on your facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/christine.mcknight.5/posts/1069435566430706

     
  22. Like
    skippy740 got a reaction from lagarthaaz in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Well, I've finally determined that "Facebook" is the "court of public opinion".
     
    I know that if everyone was sitting in a room, that we'd be more cordial and polite about each other's beliefs than what I'm seeing on Facebook lately.
     
    So... I've decided to delete my account. 
    I'm tired of debate without results. 
    I'm tired of judgment being passed without an OUNCE of understanding our doctrines or of the legal consequences of such decisions. 
    I'm tired of "pointless" defending of my faith when it doesn't matter.
    And I'm tired of having to hear about little details about my faith or my church and somehow, it's up to everyone else to talk about how "wrong" or "evil" it is.
     
    So, I'm simply abdicating my position from the debates.  There's nothing in the scriptures that says that you HAVE to debate with people in order to be a good example of the faith.
     
    Yes, I can debate and teach the doctrinal points of our doctrines... but I don't have to.  And I choose not to be baited into these things anymore.
  23. Like
    skippy740 reacted to Backroads in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Where is this idea coming from that disavowing one's parents' beliefs and practices is the same as disavowing one's parents?
    So all these ex-Mormon folk can disavow their LDS families' beliefs and still declare how they love and support their families (and I believe the sincerity)... but they're the only ones?
    People are being asked to commit to church teachings and put themselves in a situation of independence from apostasy.
    Not reject and shun their parents.
  24. Like
  25. Like
    skippy740 reacted to Anddenex in Reports of new church policies re: same sex couples and children   
    Another testament for me that we are guided by Heavenly Father through his servant, prophets and apostles.  When the Lord's servants make decision, since the beginning, there will always be some who kick against the pricks.  The Church's stance hasn't changed, won't change, and will continue to make decisions in light of truth, intelligence.  Upon reading comments these are the thoughts I have:
     
    1) Article of Faith #2, is about children not being condemned for parent sins; however, we are full aware that parental decision will and do affect children.  I am not punished for Adam's (Eve's) transgression.  I will be punished for my own.  I am however, accepting the consequence of their decision.  Children are not kept back from the natural consequences of their parents decisions. When father and mother remove themselves from the Church, children will face the consequences of that decision. 
     
    2) Divine approval.  Our leaders do not make decisions without much thought, and without much prayer.  Their decisions, especially that enter into the Church Handbook are done as specified by President Harold B. Lee, "You may be sure that your brethren who preside are praying most earnestly, and we do not move until we have the assurance, so far as lies within our power, that what we do has the seal of divine approval."
     
    Despite this truth, there will be individuals who think, due to their learning, they are more wise than those the Lord has called to hold keys of authority.  They are more concerned with the Church agreeing with them, then they agreeing with the Lord.  They will be more concerned with the Church appearing in likeness after the manner of men, rather than the glory of God. Or as President Benson said, "The proud...pit their perceptions of truth against God's great knowledge...The proud wish God would agree with them.  They aren't interested in changing their opinions to agree with God's," as directed by his servants, the prophets.
     
    3) As the world continues to ripe in iniquity, the Church will lay down, more specifically its boundaries.  They will become more specific and more direct with Church policies and practices to reflect the constant change of thought by the natural human.  One thing for sure, although the manner of flesh, the carnal mind, will always change -- the Church will remain constant.  
     
    4) I am confused as to how some think that because they love a son or daughter who is actively gay that they will be punished, or apostate.  If you condone the sin, preach against the Lord's servants (Oath and Covenant of Priesthood), then yes, ridicule of the Lord's servants has always been, and will always be, a sign of apostasy.  I love my brother-in-law who is actively gay, but that doesn't mean I condone his behavior, and I know my Church membership will not be affected because I hang out, love, hug, and care for them.
     
    This is another testament, witness, that we are lead by the heavens, and we have leaders who aren't concerned with the world and its opinions.  Thank goodness for inspired leadership, despite nay sayers.