NobodysFool

Back when we had a single ward, they still were. Not the ones I've seen. They either opened their activities to the stake, or the stake continued to function and hold events. And as far as the one ward you cite, it worked then, it worked for that age spread and it worked for that size of a ward. It is not a forgone conclusion that it would work now, for the range in demographics that one finds in different areas and most particularly, it may not work for the smaller wards we have now. Well, that's one possible outcome. Another is to withdraw and seek social gratification elsewhere. Yes, and guess how that makes many singles feel. From your statements, it seems apparent to me that you are not single and you haven't been in quite a while. I meant dead socially. In some wards, there's simply too few singles (and not as a result of singles wards). There isn't enough of a selection to find anyone they connect with as friends. So they go elsewhere for social activities. That large ward you cited worked because someone could find a peer to connect with. In situations like this, I find the church leaders tend to stay silent rather then allow themselves to get into a discussion. I wonder if they've put you on ignore.

That is a seriously big ward. At least 3 times the size of most wards in my area and getting close to half a stake. If you're going to have a ward of that size, who needs stake events? Since you've done the research, you'll have to tell me why it's so big. Did they do things differently back then or was it because of large families increasing the membership count without increasing the number of "bishopric material" that seems to be the major deciding factor today? Given the widely varied demographics that you'll find, I'm not sure as there is any "one size fits all" solution to the problem. If a single has the misfortune of living in the boundaries of a "newlywed or nearly dead" ward, what are they supposed to do? I'm not sure how you get the idea that a YSA ward exposes the weak more then keeping them in a family ward when their friends have left home. I think exiting the youth program is a bigger shock then entering the YSA program. I won't say that single people "only" need single friends, but the single friends are more important to them. I've seen time and again, when a single person gets married, the friendships with their single friends weakens. The single person then needs to find a new "go do" friend. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I know of singles attending family wards who do not attend anything but their block meetings. They do NOT come out to single events. That why I called that bogus. You will not see them at a stake fireside unless they've been called upon to play the piano or serve refreshments. At the time there was no nearby singles wards for them to "ward hop". They would have had to either go back to school to got to the student ward or quit their job and moved out of the area entirely. Close. Nope. Social. Most of the callings in the auxiliaries are already filled. And I've already indicated that the number of YSA returning to the family wards wasn't that large. It certainly wouldn't cause a Elders Quorum or Relief Society to split into two. Oh, the old "you're single - you have time for this" trip. Trust me. It doesn't go over well. Except the church isn't a democracy, even in non-doctrinal issues. If you were in a position of power, or being consulted, that would be different. From what I understand, the change had very little to do with what was happening on the home front, but rather the increasing difficulty in dealing with the issues in trying to run the church in heavily black areas of the world. Perhaps one of the stickyer problems is when someone did their genealogy and found they were part black.

I also wanted to add that YSA wards is not for everyone. It is a choice.

People who try to build you a better house of faith are probably worth listening to. But folks who only want to tear down what you have and leave you spiritually homeless should be avoided. If they say they're doing God's work, ask them if they think God's truths are so weak that they have to tear down others.

And yet you seem to be staying with him - why? Assuming what you've said is true, he's unfaithful and unrepentant. It's over, there's nothing to save.

What findings are those? That there's a transition problem? There certainly is. But I fail to see any stats that convince me that YSA wards are part of the problem. Let's see if I can re-state my prior point in a better fashion. 1. Youth graduate from High School. 2. Many of their friends move away to collage. 3. The ones most likely to move away is the more ambitious ones that make things happen. 4. Now if you want to blame anything for the transition, you might look at the differences of how the church treats youth and YSA. The oversight in the church changes dramatically: - Duty to God/Personal Progress program ends - Mutual activities that are held weekly ends. - Scouting ends - Oversight by the Young Men's/Young Women's Presidency ends - The funding for activities changes. - They're moved from groups of their peers into the same groups as their parents. On the YSA side, the Bishop may call a couple of YSA reps and a YSA adviser couple. Most wards are doing good if they can have a monthly FHE. All this really takes a toll on a newly minted YSA's friend network at precisely the time they've lost some of their friends. Last but not least, at this point, the members become adults and some leave home. Now they find out if the gospel is really part of themselves or if they were just going along with their parents. Now is the time to see if the youth program really did it's job. Or did it set them up to fail with the withdrawal of attention. Bogus. They would not be seeing the same people. Far too many YSA only goes to their block meetings. If you're not in their ward, you'll never see them. Yeah, I've heard complaints that the YSA ward was killing the ward YSA. Then our SP dissolved the ward. (This was back 10-15 years go when a infamous letter encouraged the dissolving of singles and language wards.) About the only thing it accomplished is that it shut up the complainers. In the end, it did little for the wards. Even with the return of the YSA from the YSA ward, there simply wasn't "critical mass" to make things fly. In my observation, I've found the analogy of a charcoal briquette fire to be good. You can't create a fire with just a couple of briquettes. You need a small pile of them. Take a briquette out of the fire and it cools off. Put it back and it goes back to contributing to the fire. Making YSA go back to their conventional wards tends to scatter the fire. Whatever. But the fact is, it's still in the Handbook that was gone over carefully and revised just this past November. I'm sure the Brethren have looked at this and decided that on a whole, the church is better off with YSA wards. Note that attending a YSA ward is optional, not mandatory. I've never seen them ward hop due to boring callings. Usually, it's to meet others. I'd also venture to say, that if they did stay in their family wards, the callings they'd get there wouldn't be much better. That's a separate problem, but one not that much different from the youth to YSA in which the first group built up something the second group couldn't sustain. And in the final analysis - unless I've missed something, it's not your place to be advocating what the church should be doing. It's one thing to hold an opinion, but it's another to be spending so much time and energy in open lobbying. It's one thing to have a hobby, but this one seems to be a utter waste of time.

The problem with "mature" is that you always think you've reached it. But look back a few years later - uh, not quite. I don't think that cycle stopped (or at least slowed down) for me until the mid 20s.

I love playing with fire, and I don't want to get burned. I love playing with fire, I don't think I'll ever learn. yaaaaaaa! Sorry, that triggered my inner juvenile delinquent.

Since it's him calling it off, I don't see that you have many options at this point. Maybe you are supposed to be together and he's afraid of commitment. Even so, there's nothing you can do. Move on. You can remain friends if you want, but stay a bit distant. Give him room to miss you. And start dating others. It will either wake him up or help you move on. Either way is good for you. If you continue to anguish over something you have no control, you will continue to anguish. It's okay to morn, but don't wallow in it. As much as it hurts, keep moving.

Alriiiiiiight! A topic I can get into! Church pet peeves People who have to comment on something before they give the closing prayer. Prayers that sound more like sermons then prayers. Meetings that run overtime. Talks that use stories that have been repeated to the point of being a Cliché. (Can we start a list?) Talks that try to shame us into missionary work (like the "I thought you were my friend" story. - Oh, there's Cliché #1.) Leaders who pass out information on upcoming events, but don't bother to update the ward/stake calendar on the website.

I was hoping to start a discussion. Some people are only "responders" and rarely start something. So, I thought I'd throw something out there and see what happens. While I did expect to get a response by a moderator, I wasn't expecting a pile-on in "defend the faith" mode. But after all that, I think finally some banter is starting.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

+1. I don't think it has marking, but I think it's the best app at this time.

Hmmmm, over how long a time span? That's obviously not a "what's new" listing. Using "What's new" gets me 37 threads. It does seem that it's picking now that it's a weekday instead of a weekend.

It sucks that the topic isn't more active. I thought lds.net is/was one of the more active forums on the 'net, even if it's not a dating site.