bytor2112

Yes, a friend. I went through repentance quite some time ago and he knew that I had so he asked me about my experience. I posted my experince with repentance a while back. I think he, and I understand this, felt like it would be a much more complicated and drawn our process. It wasn't so it left him with some questions.

I have a friend who recently went to see there Bishop regarding some ancient transgressions... just to clear it up I guess. He told the Bishop the name of the sins but no details. His Bishop sent him to the Stake President. He said the Stake President asked him a few questions and didn't ask any details. but in the process uncovered another sin. In the end the Stake President thanked him for coming in and explained that he felt as though he (my friend) was already repentant. Much to his relief. He asked me a couple of things: 1. Was his confession ok... no details just the name of the sin. (he didn't tell me, I didn't ask) 2. Did what the SP said take presedence over his Bishop? 3. Since he told the SP things he didn't tell his Bishop, does he now need to tell his Bishop? He is a Melchizedic Priesthood holder now, wasn't when he transgressed. I told him that I thought his Bishop sent him to the SP because techniquely he is his eclesiastical leader and the buck stops whith him, so to speak. He worries that he didn't confess correctly or maybe he could have expressed his sin differently or that he should have been more detailed. I told him that the SP is set apart to make these type of decisions and to relax and be happy. Any comments for my friend would be appreciated. I hope to get him on the forum soon.

I agree. Much of who we will be is a direct result of our upbringing. If we are taught to be loving, caring, honest and fair by our parents(or whomever reared us)...... chances are much greater that we will turn out that way. Still that is not always the case. Plenty of bad apples come from good trees. Religion can certainly reinforce and teach morality and help shape one into the type of person that one would like to be. I guess the difference is how we define moral and what actions constitute morality. Some believe that fervently religious people are judgemental and attempt to force their brand of morality on others. While religious people feel exactly the same way, except they feel that immorality is being forced on them. My personal belief is that we all have a conscience. We are all given the light of Christ. We know instinctively when we choose to do wrong or right. Sometimes we try to justify our actions with logic... everyone is doing it, just once is no big deal or if it feels good do it. But this line of thought will usually lead to regret. Sadly, we don't live in a very moral world in my view. There are lots of decent people trying to live a higher standard, but lots more with no standards at all. I think we have become anesthetized to just how truely immoral the world is because we have grown up seeing it. Mankind does not love each other and look after each other. We aren't very concerned by tragic events in different parts of the world, like Darfur....other than conversationally. We are consumed by "global warming" and how we are destroying the planet but not so concerned over how brutally people are treated in different parts of the world. I often wonder why things are such a mess in a time when things should be so enlightened.

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Things that make you go hmm....... can someone explain the meaning of these scriptures?

The oft-mentioned unpardonable sin is of monumental import. Of this, the Prophet Joseph Smith has said: All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When a man begins to be an enemy to this work, he hunts me, he seeks to kill me, and never ceases to thirst for my blood. He gets the spirit of the devil--the same spirit that they had who crucified the Lord of Life�the same spirit that sins against the Holy Ghost. You cannot save such persons; you cannot bring them to repentance; they make open war, like the devil, and awful is the consequence.14 1 Sin Against the Holy Ghost The sins unto death may be thought of as somewhat difficult to define and limit with precision. From the words of Joseph Smith quoted above we note that "... many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" will fall into this category. We cannot definitely identify them individually since it is impossible for us to know the extent of their knowledge, the depth of their enlightenment, and the sureness of their testimonies before their fall. When one has received the Holy Ghost he has a companion who will constantly warn and teach and inspire him. (See Moro. 10:5.) If not driven away through uncleanness or other persistent wickedness the Holy Ghost will always bear increasing witness to gospel truth. The potency of his influence is emphasized in this explanation by President Joseph Fielding Smith:

Baptism is a sacred covenant. If we first have faith in Jesus Christ and second repent of our sins, we can then be baptized and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. The atonement of Jesus Christ is what makes it possible for our sins to be cleansed at Baptism and every week when we renew our baptismal covenants and any other time that we transgress if we truely repent.(... a mighty change of heart). As far as sinning against the Holy Ghost.... I am not sure that we have the knowledge necessary to commit that sin. Our knowlege would need to be certain.... like the Prophets and Apostles. I don't think that murderers can be baptized, perhaps repentance is available to them later... not sure.

Umm..... the Book on CD is really good. The movie is not really B, more like C. Very low budget. The villians are way to "clean". Not very believable. Audiences of 6-12 years of age would enjoy. Probably as bad or as good, depending on your perspective as the Book of Mormon Story.

Rekhyt2238, sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I hope you find the answers your are looking for here or elsewhere. I sometimes forget that we are all at different places in the journey that Skale talked about. My mother doesn't like her new Ward and is struggling to atend. Mormons can be very clickish and while I am not from Utah, I hear it can be really bad there, depending on the Ward. Have you considered checking out some different Wards? If I offended you and it sounds like I did...please accept my apology. The Church is true, best of luck on your journey.

Close to leaving??!!..... sounds like you were never there! Many issues, please. If you really wanted to know the truth you would go to church instead of listening to those all knowing members of other faiths. I bet your friends have researched the LDS faith more than they researched the history or beliefs of their own churches teachings. MIGHT AS WELL HEAD FOR THE EXIT SIGN AND GET "SAVED" , because you aren't going to find a testimony here and you have already stated your not looking for one.

[b Rekhyt2238 Sounds to me like you have already left the church or were never there to begin with. The best place to have these questions answered are at church. But you seem to have your own formula for figuring things out. The scriptures that you quoted are very often used by Anti-LDS websites and other religious organizations to challenge members of the church or witness to them and show them the light. I am not saying that you are getting your information from there, but if you are hanging out with the Baptists, they do not consider the LDS church to be a Christian church. The SBC has labeled us a cult and have said that" just like the Muslim or Jews, the LDS will go to hell if they are not saved." I am a convert to the LDS faith as is my wife. We were both Baptists. I wasn't active or living any sort of real Christian life, but I was "saved". :DThe Baptist church that my wife attended held classes on how to witness to a Mormon and showed the youth group the anti LDS film, The Godmakers, which is full of lies and distortions and proven to be so. Obviously, Baptists and other Christian denominations interpret the scriptures differently and disagree with LDS doctrine. We believe that there is more to the story than what is contained in the Bible. I can remember showing this same verse and lots of others to my best friend who was LDS. When I finally stopped arguing with him and listened, not with my ears, but with my spiritual ears, everything began to change. Most Baptists come to Christ after being showed a few scriptures, like John 3:16 and different verses making it apparant that if you don't accept Christ as your personal Savior, you will go to hell. If you are really seeking the truth and really want answers, before you completely abandon the church, try this. Attend church every Sunday, all three hours. Meet your Bishop in his office and tell him about your struggles with the church- be honest with him. Ask him your questions, ask your Ward missionaries, go to Gospel Principles and ask questions. Find out who you should be Home teaching and go. Pray at least twice a day on bended knee, be specific about what you want to know. Read the Scriptures daily.(our scriptures). If possible go out with the missionaries when they have a teaching appointment. Really sell out to the Church for 90 days. If you do this and you will if you REALLY are seeking to know if the church is true, you will know without a doubt if the Church is what it claims to be or not. When you seek the Lord and truth, you have to really seek the Lord. He knows if you are luke warm or not. If you are not willing to do those things, you probably will continue on your journey toward the exit sign. After all we are just dupes and rubes here. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Once you finally become a Baptist or join some other denomination that claims there authority from the Bible or some other creed, or follow some friends to other churches that they haven't researched nearly as much as they have researched how wrong the LDS church is, you will be able to be an authority on our faith as well. After all the best place to learn about the LDS faith is definitely listening to some others who got there information from some web site or some classs on " those bad mormons". Have you asked your friends how they researched their Church and it's beliefs? Good luck!!

I think it is because people today are seeking a church that is patterned after the world. They want to live how that want and go to heaven too. I remember when the Pope passed away, people were wondering if the next Pope might be more liberal in his views. Churches now really lack reverence..... they play rock music and rap music with a Christian theme. What kind of message does that send.? The same ideals of normalcy that lead people away from God are now being offered as a way to come to God. Confusing!?? There are only two directions... eithe rtoward God or away. Hanging on to the worldly, even to the point of bringing it to church is definitely not moving toward him.

"...... and they rob the poor for their fine sanctuaries."

We don't convince or convert.... the Spirit does, right? Why do so few seem to recognize the Spirit or feel it? Even the ones eager to know the truth?

Never fear..... * is near and hope and change is on the way!:mad: Nanny state is about to expand and I hope we don't change so much that we can't find our way back. The missionaries really struggle and the members struggle to help them. They are competing with the media circus(CBN and Trinity ) and Mega churches promising riches and blessings if you send money. They look Spirit filled........it is a fallen sphere indeed.

Islander.. very passionate and sadly, very true. But still, I have met with some very sincere seakers of truth and they just don't get it. Don't feel the Spirit. I wonder why? How can you not recognize the Spirit? Morrisons.... a cafeteria- good Southern style food.

My office assistant met with the missionaries for over a year. If you gave her a test on what the church believes she would make a 100%. She just didn't get it. "Why don't other churches have a Book like the Mormons....duh!!" I watched her change. She stopped swearing, stopped drinking alcohol, her health improved, she got a blessing and wept, her financial situation improved. Sometimes the Spirit was so strong during the discussions (held weekly in my office) that it would bring tears to my eyes. She was oblivious. She no longer works for me and she has returned to her former self and has all the same issues again. Sad really, but she doesn't see it. Um, Starbucks at church... very envogue and convenient. Just need a Morrisons and your set for the day. Congrats to your wife!!! Very exciting.:)

Why does it seem like so few people care or seem interested or excited to find out the the Gospel has been restored? Are there to many competing voices? Has "main stream" Christianity made it too easy to be saved? Is this doctrine just to appealing? I have often wondered why it is some feel the Spirit so strongly and others while hearing the same message don't or won't? Tuned into the wrong frequency I guess. We are a very small minority.... really makes me sad sometimes.

[QUOTE=Maureen;223854]Are you sure about that? All understand the same scripture differently? Can you give an example?M. Some faiths believe baptism is necessary for salvation, some do not. Some believe that sprinkling is ok, some believe it must be by emersion. Some believe in paying tithes some do not. Some take the sacrament and some do not. Some have female clergy some do not. Some believe in the Nicene Creed, some do not. Some believe in the rapture of the church, some do not. Some believe that we are saved by grace alone, some do not. Some believe that we must be saved to go to heaven, others think differently. Some claim original Apostolic authority, some don't. Some follow the teachings of Weseley, or Luther or Calvin. Some believe that Priests shouldn't marry. Some believe in a Triune God, some do not. Once upon a time, they (christians) believed the same doctrine and practiced their faith the same way. They believed the doctrine that Christ established on the earth. That doctrine was restored to the earth when a 14 year old boy knelt in a grove of trees and petitioned his Heavenly Father to let him know which church he should join. He was answered that he should join none of them " for they are all wrong." "...they draw near me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." THe confusion over different doctrine that I described above is all different interpretations of scripture and this is just a small sampling of the confusion that exists in the Christian churches today. Heavenly Father is not the author of this confusion. The truth has been restored.

I am also a convert. I was a Southern Baptist and I am certain I believed just as your friend does. I am sure your friend is well meaning and believes in her faith. Studying the Bible is great but true study of the Bible will leave you with more questions than answers. Study the Book of Mormon also, it will help make sense of the Bible.

You say that Christ and Christianity is a big part of your life, are you active in church? Do you hold the Priesthood? You keep saying the "LDS faith". The LDS faith is Christianity- true pure Christianity. Do you need your Bible with you to expound on the "issues" you are having with some church doctrine? Our faith is an active faith. When we speak of having a testimony, it is more than just a belief or understanding of doctrine or a belief that Jesus is the Christ. It is all of these things and more. The Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit sacred truths, like Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God, that he was crucified for the sins of the world and that after laying in a sepulcher for three days, he was raised into immortality and ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of the Father and reign in Eternal glory for ever and ever. These commonly held beliefs in Christ are what defines Christians today. Have you ever wondered why their are so many denominations? They all claim to believe in Christ and understand salvation, but all understand the same scriptures a bit differently. Each of these denominations are break offs, off- shoots of the Catholic church. They left the Church because of differences of doctrinal opinion... and other issues. But they took what they believed to be true and started their own faith. The Church that Christ started was no longer in existence. There were still believers, but they all believed something different. The Authority to act in Gods name was no longer on the earth. We call this the Apostasy. The Bible is an awesome collection of sacred writings that is interpreted differently by different religious groups. Some accept the KJV others have more books... like the Catholics. Joseph Smith was chosen to "restore" Christ's church to the earth in preparation for his second coming. The Book of Mormon is a sacred record that details the account of a family that left Jerusalem in 600 BC and traveled to the Americas. The record details the lives of the descendants of two brothers, Nephi and Lamen. It follows their wars and contentions and rise and fall because of there wickedness and the crowning event is the appearance of Jesus Christ after his crucifixion. It provides details that have been missing from Christian beliefs for centuries. It is another witness or testimony that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It clarifies the information in the Bible. We believe that through Joseph's humble prayer, communication with God opened again. We believe that this communication continues today. You are a young man who obviously has a firm testimony that Jesus is the Christ. The best ways to find out information about his church is to go to his church. See your Bishop and tell him of your concerns. Go to Gospel Doctrine class on Sunday. Do you attend Seminary? Pray and don't try and read the Book of Mormon- do it. It contains the fullness of the Everlasting Gospel, the good news of salvation through Christ and is a gift beyond compare, an example of Heavenly Fathers unending love for his children. Don't let the adversary distract you and whisper things to you that will lead you astray. You probably have a great work to do for the Lord and the adversary knows it and there is no better way than distract you from the truth.

The cross aside.... are you a member of the church? If so how long? Do you have a testimony about anything? The Book of Mormon? Joseph Smith? I suspect that you don't if you are worried about religious symbols. We believe that Jesus drank of the bitter cup and took upon him the sins of the world and made himself a ransom for penitent sinners in Gethsemennee. The suffering on the cross of Calvary was the means of his death. Advice? Wear the cross if you like. But pray, really pray and read the Book of Mormon. The Church is true.... please don't let something like wearing a cross prevent you from gaining a testimony, an absolute knowledge that this is the Lords church.

or sleep during the talks.......

Lots of places serve or sell alcohol...the Marriott serves alcohol.

Should have been drilling along time ago..... now we will pay.

Good luck in your quest for truth and light..... and welcome!!