bytor2112

Joseph translated the Book of Mormon by the power of God, but how? By what method? I am often asked why the BOM contains errors found in the KJV Bible or why greek words like Christ are found in the BOM. There are many other questions about translation. Was it word for word or was it a vision and he added the narration? I have my own theories, but would enjoy hearing your thoughts on how this marvelous work and a wonder came into being.

I am not "gay" bashing. I have stated my opinion about the subject. I disagree with there lifestyles but support there right to live that way. I just don't want the government stamping it with a seal of approval. I am sorry that Digital Shadow feels like an opinion opposite of his is pious "gay bashing". But, I think he did finally nail it, his view is in the severe minority and should not be made the law of the land.

Gays already have the liberty to live their lives as they choose, set up housekeeping, share income and expenses, make contracts and wills, and transfer property. What they are now demanding is respect and social standing for a lifestyle that others believe is immoral (like mixed-gender cohabiting). That amounts to the minority forcing its views on the majority. Nobody is entitled to respect for behavior of which we don't approve. Legalizing same-sex marriage would not merely permit a small number of people to choose alternate lifestyles (they are already doing that). It would force the rest of us to accept a public judgment that personal desire outweighs the value of traditional marriage and outweighs the need of children for mothers and fathers. If personal desire is to become the only criterion for public recognition of marriage, if equal rights and nondiscrimination require us to be neutral about who is eligible for marriage, how then can we deny marriage to those who want to marry a child, or a sibling, or more than one wife? All those practices are common in some other countries. If a 13-year-old girl can exercise "choice" to "control her own body" and get an abortion, why can't she have the choice to marry? The Goodridge (Mass. same sex opinion) decision ruled that "the right to marry means little if it does not include the right to marry the person of one's choice." Marriage must not be changed to mean merely two consenting persons agreeing to share quarters and start applying to the government and to employers for economic benefits. Marriage must continue to be recognized as the essential unit of a stable society wherein husbands and wives provide a home and role models for the rearing of children. -Phylis Schafley Where was the harm in introducing a gay character to a sitcom or even gay characters on all tv programming? In my humble opinion it opened the door for the lifestyle to be viewed as "funny", not harmful or wrong really. Harmless actually. Books like Heather has two Mommies and attacks on Boy Scouts will definitely increase. Why? Because that is a big part of the agenda. Total and complete acceptability. Eventually, opinions like mine will be out lawed as hate speech, like it is in other more enlightened nations. I don't want my children being taught that they must accept alternative lifestyles and be spoon fed classes on why this is just as normal and correct and ok as being in a traditional marriage. It really is a Pandora's box and is so unnecessary.

Huh? I have listed multiple reasons that have nothing to do with religion. There are lots of reasons that have nothing to do with religion or because "God said so".

Religious viewpoints aside...... they have the right to marry anyone they choose, just as I do, as long as they are of the opposite sex. They are asking for a new right, one which I don't have either. Again they can have a ceremony call it marriage and have legal agreements for the parties involved and call each other spouse, husband, wife, dear, honey or whatever. We just don't need to have the government sanctioning and changing the definition of marriage and inviting a myriad of other problems. There argument is hollow. They can have a ceremony, invite friends, receive gifts, send invitations, place an announcement in the paper,have bridesmaids and groomsmen, whatever makes them happy. They can choose to leave all of their worldly possesions to their partner and leave medical and end of life decisions up to their partners. They do not need Uncle Sam to say it's okay. As for morality, this is a site comprising mostly people of a common mindset who share the same religious affiliation. People make moral judgments all of the time, right and wrong. And, Digital Shadow, it harms us all. As I have stated above and in other comments, two consenting adults may do whatever they wish, but it does cause harm, it is all connected and it will not stop with this issue. Morality and religion, not just LDS beliefs tend to walk hand in hand. The real issue is that six judges shouldn't get to reinvent marriage for the rest of Americans. It causes so much harm that I could right for days about it. Anthony Scalia has written a good deal on the legal ramifications. Harmful yes. Morally and otherwise. Let them do as they wish and live as they wish..... and they already can. They don't need the governments intervention to live their chosen lifestyle. As far as it being an abomination... that is between them and God.

PA- Your missing the point. Two people who "love" each other can have a ceremony and call it marriage and have any kind of legal arrangement that they choose. What they are asking for is government sanctioning of marriage. They currently have the same rights that I as a heterosexual man have. They can marry someone of the opposite sex and that is recognized as marriage by the government and dare I say- God. They are asking for a new definition of marriage. Why can't I marry more than one woman, if I love each of them or why can't a woman marry more that one man, hmm? Or why shouldn't we be able to marry a sibling if we love them. After all we shouldn't judge and maybe they would really love each other? Endless possibilities and again they are able to have a ceremony and call it marriage and have legal arrangements. That is a private matter and between them, their family and friends and their personal believe in God. But changing the laws open the doors to the above mentioned scenarios and more intrusion into the religious, educational and cultural realm. Haven't children been exposed to enough immorality already without allowing further immoral intrusion by secularists with an agenda. As far as Britney Spears.... that's just another example of the erosion of values and how marriage is not viewed as a sacred institution by many today.

Captain Nephi, I agree 100%. This is a major front of the war against religion and morality. Secularism is the religion of the left. Interestingly enough, I believe that Bruce R McConkie stated that evolution is the Secular religion.... along time ago. I am happy that the Church is making a stand and are calling on us to do so as well. This is part of a much broader agenda. Homosexuality has existed and will continue to exist. But is no longer looked down upon by anyone other that us religious folk. Gay characters are on every show on TV.... so I hear. It is all so open and once they leap this last hurdle........they will be very emboldened and this agenda as well as the rest of the secular agenda will stride boldly into as much of the sacred and educational as possible. So, lets heed a Prophets call....

Must be something in the water in California.......er and Massachusetts and Vermont...... We should have voted for a constitutional amendment, instead we are going to get hijacked by a few judges in some lefty states. But I am just a right wing religious whacko and obviously full of hate and very mean.

These "legal agreements" are a private matter and are available now. They are trying to make an "in your face" point by wanting the government to sanction these type of marriages. Once Uncle Sam has put his Seal of approval on it then they will be able to attack institutions of religion for not recognizing their marriages as legit. Our faith will not be excluded from this. Then their is no way to stop them from infiltrating text books and classroom curriculum.

I think that we should be opposed to the Government sanctioning of "gay" marriage. Personally, if they want to have a ceremony and call it marriage and have legal documents giving their "partner" rights to property and end of life or welfare decisions( the same legal rights granted to my wife) I am fine with that. That is a private matter. Government sanctioning is a completely public matter and I am ardently opposed as is the Church. This type of "union", besides being unholy is not equal to or the same as traditional marriage and should not be considered as such or promoted by the government. Just my opinion....

I have a great deal of empathy for those members who struggle against same gender attraction. If one is truly honest, they will readily admit that these feelings are a curse and they wouldn't wish them on anyone. I once worked with a guy who was "gay". He told me that he had been this way since he was a child and felt powerless to be different. I think this must be a very confusing and frightening thing to have to deal with. On the one hand they must instinctively know it is wrong yet can't seem to force themselves to be "normal". Again, for those who recognize this is abhorrent and something to be resisted with every fiber of their being and strive to do so, my prayers go out for them. Those who have given in to this sinful behavior,why foist these views on the rest of society and try and pretend that it is ok and normal? They seek acceptance from society, government and institutions of religion because they can't convince themselves that it is normal, healthy behavior. How many tv programs now have a "gay" character? How many children are taught that it is ok to be gay and have to deal with growing up in a home with same gendered parents? Is it any wonder really that they now believe that it is ok to "marry"? Isn't it really scary that TV networks, MTV (which really promotes this behavior as normal and is down right awful anyways), political organizations and at least one Major political party(D) in the US help promote this lifestyle as normal. We really live in a bubble, this has been going on in other countries for a long time. They even attacked the Boy Scouts. Remember the 2000 Democratic convention and the incident with the Boy Scouts presenting the colors? I really do fear for our country, our children and decency.

Ponderous words indeed!!! If You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 - William W. Phelps 1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be? 2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend? Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end? Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’ Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.” 3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound; Improvement and progression Have one eternal round. There is no end to matter; There is no end to space; There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race. 4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might; There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light. There is no end to union; There is no end to youth; There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth. 5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above.

Welcome back!!!!

Welcome..... this is a great group!!

Awesome video of groth of Stakes!!!! Check it out!YouTube - Mormon Stake Growth 1847 - 2007

Sandra Tanner and her ilk are not seekers of truth. She was deceived long ago by her late husband and he was deceived by...... well I think we can all agree on who is the Father of all lies. Much of the Evangelical movement and indeed much of Christendom have been deceived and lulled into believing that God has spoken and will speak no more. The only information that they adhere to regarding the Restored Gospel is what ever has been spewed forth by our detractors and researched by people who are spiritually deaf and blind. It is so disheartening that some groups who are not even full time Mormon bashers like Focus on the Family asked that the LDS not pray during the National Day of Prayer because we are not Christian. I have read one of Dr. Dobson's books, "Bringing up boys" and it was excellent. It is too bad that he doesn't understand that God hears all prayers not just whoever Dobson thinks are Christians. The Southern Baptist Convention has labeled the LDS a cult and"just like the Muslims and Jews, if they are not saved will go to hell." I live in the deep South and am surrounded by this irrational way of thinking. My son went to church with a friend after a Saturday sleepover. This is a rare occurrence but we know the parents and they know our faith. A week or so later some ladies from that church stopped by our home to ask us if we had a church to attend, my wife said yes and told them where we attend. They were reviled by us, they physically looked ill and took a step back and promptly left our home. While behavior like that might be rare, I think the information that is disseminated is so pernicious and awful and so completely untrue that honest discourse and a search for truth so that we may all come to a unity of the faith is seriously impeded. My wife and I are former Baptists, I was never active, but I was "saved":D. She was very active and they had anti-LDS classes and showed the "Godmakers". Do you know that most of the people being interviewed and telling horror stories about the church in the Godmakers are paid actors. Sandra Tanner appears in the movie, but to her credit has denounced the films. The Godmakers II made me physically sick. Ed Decker's in some real trouble and better figure it out quick. Satan is hard at work!! He knows his days are numbered and is seeking to deceive any and all. Finally, I personally believe that the anti's that were former members of the church were looking for the Exit sign and some misunderstanding about history just lit the sign brighter for them. As for archaeological evidences...... mankind has had thousands of years to uncover Biblical sites and evidences and less than 180 years to unearth BOM evidences. The evidences and proof of the BOM are written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. If Zarahemla were found tomorrow, people would still not believe. People still challenge the Bible-evidences or not. If we are to believe only after seeing, we would not need to walk by faith in this life. Heavenly Father gave us the key to the mystery of whether or not the BOM is true. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Trying to glean insight and understanding of 19th century church history while peering through 21st century lenses is always going to provide us with a dim lit view of the past. My wife and I have talked a lot about these issues and always come back to the same conclusion. Namely, the Holy Spirit testifies of truth and Joseph was and is the Prophet of the Dispensation of the fullness of times. Brigham Young and many other leaders, Prophets and Apostles alike had multiple wives and had children by these multiple wives. I am absolutely fine with Joseph doing that as well, and even if I weren't, Heavenly Father apparently would have been. Sad really how the first thoughts most will have regarding this principle are to think about sexual gratification. We all know why they wanted more than one wife, don't we??? We are all taught and the scriptures are clear that the Lord delights in Chastity and virtue. I am certain that this church, the Lords church, could not have grew into this worldwide trumpeter of goodness and virtue if Joseph, and we have to include other Prophets as well, had fallen into some dark and immoral practices involving illicit affairs and multiple wives. One day,if we still number time by days or even number time at all, we will understand this principle and understand the Holy and Spiritual nature of it without injecting jealousies and thoughts of worldly passions. One day, when we are prepared........we will understand this and so much more.

I read a talk by James Faust about wayward children and Sealing power. Basically, if our children have been sealed to us and they transgress and fall away that through the Sealing power we will be able to reclaim them. Sounds like the Lord has extended his mercy well beyond our minds ability to understand..... and boy am I thankful!!

Thanks- I should have said definition of terms, rather than curious. But will check it out anyways......

Just curious, what is The Principle of Attraction and Realm of Yesod?

Um, Principle of Attraction.....Realm of Yesod??

Right, but those who don't accept the gospel or wish to repent. They must know something is different. They won't see their spouse, kids, dog, home, whatever. No job to go to, no car, no tv, no golf, no college football.......I mean they know they have died. Or do they lose all memory of their earthly life and are just tormented by having desires that can only be fulfilled by having bodies?

Surely they must know that they don't have a body. That must send a pretty big clue that something isn't quite right.

I often wonder how someone would not want to repent or accept the Gospel when they have died. Surely they must know they have died?

I agree and have read comments by GA's, most notably Bruce R McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith say that their is not progression between kingdoms. But what about the scenario of the faithful brother who screws up at the end of his life and dies before he repents? He can still repent before the judgment, right?