Justice

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  1. One other thing I notice about the creation, that bears witness to me of the reality of the creation and that Jesus Christ was the Creator, is the similarity found here: Genesis 1: 3 And God said... 6 And God said... 9 And God said... 11 And God said... 14 And God said... 20 And God said... 24 And God said... 26 And God said... 29 And God said... Compared to: Mark 4: 39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. 40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? 41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? Well, we KNOW what manner of "man" He was. He speaks and matter obeys. He showed it during the creation, and when He was alive on the earth. The great question is, "When He speaks do we obey?"
  2. All things were created spiritually before they were created physically. In the spiritual creation it was man who was created first. Then, in the physical creation it was man who was created last. All things were created perfect by God, meaning there was no death, pain, or suffering. The fall of Adam brought death, disease, and suffering into the world. It is interesting exactly HOW God made the physical creation. I challenge you to pray for understanding, then slowly read the account of creation. The one in Genesis will do just fine, but you can read the one in the Pearl of Great Price, too, if you want. I just may start a new thread about the creation, since it may not belong here. You'll be very surprised how much is actually written in Genesis about how the creation happened. ...and yes, it's perfectly logical. Believe it or not, the key is to really understand the first verse. There are so many misunderstood words in verse 1: beginning, God, created, heaven, earth. Through modern day revelation we have answers to some of those words. We know what "beginning" it's speaking of. We know that "God" is the premortal Jehova, or Jesus Christ (or Him acting for Heavenly Father). We know "created" does not mean "from nothing." So, focus on understanding exactly what is meant by "heaven and earth" and the understanding comes. Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Instead of trying to guess what God meant by "heaven and earth," look for His definitions in the early verses of chapter 1. You might get goosebumps. :) Genesis 1: 8 And God called the firmament Heaven... 10 And God called the dry land Earth... Now, just read the story of the creation, once you understand what firmament and dry land are, and you will see the creation unfold in your mind like a movie. Keep special watch for when "water" enters the picture... namely before anything was created. :)
  3. I wasn't going to do this because it was a profound spiritual moment the day I was taught this, and I don't want to ruin it for any of you who may discover this in the future. But, I feel moved to post this anyway. Genesis 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Now, Adam had no knowledge of good or evil at this point, and no knowledge of procreation. In fact, I can show you scriptures where God used fruit to teach Adam about how procreation works. Think of the first plant life created... Genesis 1: 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. What kind of trees did God place in the garden to represent the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and more importantly, the tree of life? Hmmmm, the Tree of Life is a fruit tree with seed within itself that bears fruit after it's kind. I can promise you that a course of study along this line will lead you to amazing places, taking you to the sacrament and eating flesh. Is not Christ the "firstfruits" of those that rose from the earth? Is He not the Word of God made flesh? Aren't seeds used to portray the word of God in several stories and parables? Are we not supposed to feast on the word of God? I know this seems off topic, but trust me, it isn't. We were taken from the "dust of the earth," or mother earth. You break the surface and place a seed inside. If you tend to the planted seed then a remarkable thing happens. It brings forth a tree of it's kind with more fruit with seeds of it's kind. It doesn't matter what kind of seed you plant in the earth, it will yield it's own kind once planted. I know that seems insignificant, because it seems so elementary to us. But, it's pretty amazing as a teaching tool if you think about it. God was teaching Adam that he was seed after His kind. Adam was speaking about his Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother in Genesis 2: 24. He knew he and Eve would have seed at some point, because he was commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth If you gain nothing else from this discussion, you can at least take God's word for what a fruit is, then you will know of a surety that a tomato is a fruit. :) Finally, look at what Eve said very closely: Moses 5: 11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. Seed=fruit to eat to live mortally (which also led to making a choice) Seed=children which brings the greatest happiness Seed=word of God to inherit eternal life Christ literally is the Bread of Life, or the Flesh of Life. What really happened to Him in Gethsemane and on Golgotha (shedding His blood) is really the cause for all eternal life. He shed His blood, not like you and I, but shed it completely. Just as Adam fell from immortality to mortality, Christ shed His blood and changed His mortal body to an immortal one. It's all about life and seeds and procreation. I just hit the very few highlights, maybe you can fill in the blanks while reading and studying the scriptures.
  4. It doesn't really matter what life looked like before Adam, we know Adam was the first offspring of Heavenly Father to live on this planet. Maybe other animals resembled man to a large degree, but they were not His offspring. Tom, we think alike. Those are all questions I have asked others, almost word for word. I believe we look too far, sometimes, for answers that are given right in front of us. Just because we don't see how or why God procreates by a method, namely the same way we do, doesn't mean He doesn't. Remember, God views things totally different than we do. He is pure and perfected. Aren't things physical made to teach us of things spiritual? We say, well, then Mary couldn't have been a virgin if... well you know. But, remember the child she carried was of an immortal, perfected being. I say virgin still. It doesn't make sense why sexual immorality would be second only to murder itself on the chain of worse commandments to break, unless there was more to it than we can see through mortal eyes. The answer to the question whether or not Adam's physical body had a belly button or not is an emphatic YES. It can not be any other way... so the Spirit says.
  5. Yes, Only Begotten in the flesh. I view "flesh" to mean mortal. Of course we know Adam was not born mortal. Eve would be a different discussion, since she was "taken" from Adam's rib, and not necessarily parented by Heavenly Father. It makes the distinction that Christ would come through the women's seed a little more plain. Sure will be interesting to know all these things one day.
  6. I would love to get people's ideas on this. I have put together a little something to track the plates from author to author and to help define the large plates and the small plates. Also, to bring out the fact that Mosiah (Benjamin's father, not son) left the Land of Nephi, much like Lehi left Jerusalem, and the people of Zarahemla became Nephites. Please offer suggestions or corrections. Book of Mormon Writers in Order Division of Small Plates of Nephi and Large Plates of Nephi, who they were passed to, and who wrote in each book, and a little history to help understand the separation of the Land of Nephi and Zarahemla: Small Plates of Nephi 1 Nephi 2 Nephi Jacob (Nephi's brother) Enos (Jacob's son) Jarom (Enos' son) Omni (Jarom's son) These plates were passed to the name of each book until Omni. Within Omni, the plates were passed to: Amaron (Omni's son) Chemish (Amaron's brother) Abinabom (Chemish's son) Amaleki (Abinadom's son) Amaleki wrote of how Mosiah (father of King Benjamin) was commanded by the Lord to leave the land of Nephi and take all those who would go with him into the wilderness (Omni 1: 12-15). They found a city called Zarahemla. The people of Zarahemla and those Nephites that went with Mosiah united in Zarahemla, and Mosiah became their king and he taught the people of Zarahemla to understand his language. The people of Zarahemla left Jerusalem at the time king Zedekiah was carried away captive into Babylon (about the same time as Lehi, presumably after Lehi left since they knew Zedekiah was carried away, but not too long after since they didn’t seem to know what happened to Zedekiah once in Babylon). Omni 1: 23 Behold, I, Amaleki, was born in the days of Mosiah; and I have lived to see his death; and Benjamin, his son, reigneth in his stead. The book of Mosiah is named after the son of king Benjamin, not the Mosiah that left the land of Nephi. It was here that Mosiah (Benjamin's son) translated a stone that spoke of Coriantumr, who the people of Zarahemla found shortly after they arrived on the land. Coriantumr lived with the people of Zarahemla 9 moons. Coriantumr's people left Jerusalem at the confounding of the languages during the time of the Tower of Babel. Mosiah 1: 1 AND now there was no more contention in all the land of Zarahemla, among all the people who belonged to king Benjamin, so that king Benjamin had continual peace all the remainder of his days. 2 And it came to pass that he had three sons; and he called their names Mosiah, and Helorum, and Helaman. And he caused that they should be taught in all the language of his fathers, that thereby they might become men of understanding; and that they might know concerning the prophecies which had been spoken by the mouths of their fathers, which were delivered them by the hand of the Lord. The Words of Mormon divide his abridgment of the Small Plates of Nephi from the Large Plates of Nephi. Mormon's abridgment of the Large Plates of Nephi comprise: Mosiah (Son of Benjamin, not the one who fled the land of Nephi) Alma Helaman 3rd Nephi 4th Nephi Mormon (to chapter 7) Mormon explained it in The Words of Mormon (after Omni) this way: 10 Wherefore, it came to pass that after Amaleki had delivered up these plates (Small Plates of Nephi) into the hands of king Benjamin, he took them and put them with the other plates (Large Plates of Nephi), which contained records which had been handed down by the kings, from generation to generation until the days of king Benjamin. 11 And they were handed down from king Benjamin, from generation to generation until they have fallen into my hands... So, from that point on (Benjamin) it would seem the plates were handed from father to son. Then... Mormon 8: 1 Behold I, Moroni, do finish the record of my father, Mormon... Moroni wrote chapters 8 and 9 in the Book of Mormon. Then, he abridged the record of the people of Coriantor, which was written by his descendant Ether, who were led away from Jerusalem at the time the Lord counfounded the language of the people when they built the Tower of Babel. Ether 1: 6 And on this wise do I give the account. He that wrote this record was Ether, and he was a descendant of Coriantor. Some notable events that happened after the reign of king Mosiah (son of Benjamin): Ammon leads a small group of people from Zarahemla to find the people of Zeniff, or the descendants of those who left Zarahemla long ago. Limhi sent men from the land of Nephi to find the land of Zarahemla. And, some people, who used to live in the land of Nephi, left Zarahemla earlier to find the Nephites or Lamanites. Before Amaleki, who gave the plates to King Benjamin, died he said this... Omni 1: 29 And it came to pass that they also took others to a considerable number, and took their journey again into the wilderness. 30 And I, Amaleki, had a brother, who also went with them; and I have not since known concerning them. And I am about to lie down in my grave; and these plates are full. And I make an end of my speaking. Both sides were sending groups of people to find the other. Ammon, who came from Zarahemla, was finally successful in finding the Land of Nephi… Mosiah 21: 24 But when he (king Limhi) found that they (Ammon and those with him) were not (priests of Noah), but that they were his brethren, and had come from the aland of Zarahemla, he was filled with exceedingly great joy. 25 Now king Limhi had sent, previous to the coming of Ammon, a asmall number of men to bsearch for the land of Zarahemla; but they could not find it, and they were lost in the wilderness. 26 Nevertheless, they did find a land which had been peopled; yea, a land which was covered with dry bones; yea, a land which had been peopled and which had been destroyed; and they, having supposed it to be the land of Zarahemla, returned to the land of Nephi, having arrived in the borders of the land not many days before the coming of Ammon. 27 And they brought a record with them, even a record of the people whose bones they had found; and it was engraven on plates of ore. 28 And now Limhi was again filled with joy on learning from the mouth of Ammon that king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; yea, and Ammon also did rejoice. These are the same 24 plates of "ore" that Moroni abridged as the Book of Ether. Ether 1: 1 And now I, Moroni, proceed to give an account of those ancient inhabitants who were destroyed by the hand of the Lord upon the face of this north country. 2 And I take mine account from the twenty and four plates which were found by the people of Limhi, which is called the Book of Ether. 3 And as I suppose that the first part of this record, which speaks concerning the creation of the world, and also of Adam, and an account from that time even to the great tower, and whatsoever things transpired among the children of men until that time, is had among the Jews— Then Moroni writes a "few more words" called the The Book of Moroni and seals up the records.
  7. And, as far as the yuk factor... Aren't we ALL brothers and sisters? Hmmmmm? Joseph Smith said we could learn more about man and God by gazing into heaven for one second than we could in a lifetime of learning on earth. There's no telling what this applies to or how far it extends. But, he made other comments about the "sociality" that exists among people in the spirit world that was very different than how it is here on earth. It's possible he meant the brother and sister thing, in part at least. Adam and Eve? It is my belief that they were born the same way every other man and woman were born on this earth. They were created from the same substance we are made of, the dust of the earth. However, they were born of an immortal mother. Obviously, since they fell from an immortal state to a mortal state, they had to be born immortal. Is this not how children will be born during the Millennium? But, for Christ to be born and shed His blood (mortal to immortal), reversing the effects of the fall (immortal to mortal), He had to be born of a mortal mother... meaning He had to be born after the Fall, but before the Millennium. Why not right in the middle? It's really a miraculous plan, even the little bit we have been told about it.