Fiannan

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Everything posted by Fiannan

  1. Pushka, nothing I say about Sweden or what the Lutheran church has evolved into even comes close to what many Swedes say. At least I label Sweden a failed socialist experiemnt while she drides it as communist and dictitorial (except the leader wears a business suit and not a military uniform with a ton of medals). I get along with Protestants quite well -- Muslims too, although that doesn't mean I won't question them. More than once I have had Muslim associates say that I would make an excellent Muslim. I will note that I went to Utah once with two Muslims (one from Iraq, the other from Albania) and they loved it -- they were impressed that there were actually Christians who lived the concepts of Christianity (their words, not mine). My points about Lutheranism may be an attempt to get Maureeen to think. Martin Luther, if alive today, would not recognize the Lutheran Church. For that matter, if you could bring back the leaders of the Lutheran Church from only 60 or 70 years ago they would be shocked at the stands of the religion in regards to birth control, many denominations in regards to gay marriage, and a rather lukewarm approach to the Bible. I suppose it would be like bringing Jefferson, Madison, Adams, etc. to life and seeing what they would think of the American government -- they would probably get started on organizing a revolution. As time goes on often ideas totally contrary to an organization, religion or government creap in as "enlightened" -- problem is, people get so "enlightened" they depart so far from the original concepts that the group no longer represents the original purpose. As for so called "hate speech" in the UK I think England should listen to Mr. Bean (Rowan Atkinson) and not a bunch of PCers who, in the name of being nice, would scrap freedom of expression.
  2. Maureen, I do not deal with norms -- I refer to concepts and principles. Even Brigham Young said people with certain problems (habits or genetic) shouldn't even have kids. Yet the principle that raising a family requies sacrifice (just like tithing, the word of wisdom for some, or even saying no when a woman flirts with you also requires effort). I do believe some people let the world make so much noise to conform to worldly-inspired notions that the Lord's still, quiet voice gets drowned out. I've heard it said that India is the most religious/spiritual country on earth while Sweden is the least. The speaker then said the US is a country of Indians ruled by Swedes. Point is, there are few sources outside the scriptures and leaders of religions that refuse to compromise with the world that would look upon a couple desiring a large family and say, simply, "Good job, the Lord would be pleased". The world tries to tempt people with the evils of materialism/globalism/me-ism into placing materalism and paternalism last on the list of priorities. Few realize that the elite that rule the media (and many in politics and education) aren' really anti-religious (they couldn't care less if you believe in God, Ra or a bran muffin) they are against people following the principles outlined in the Bible. So as long as Christians live the lifestyles that 60 years ago would have even been questioned by secularists of the age (not to mention the religious) then life is good. Pray, bow, believe in what you want -- just conform to what the elite says is good for society. And we all though behaviorism died with Skinner.
  3. Oh now Jason, the liberalism you refer to is the kind expoused by Adam Smith and John Locke -- the type that calls for small government and big civil liberties (the inspiration for the founding fathers). Yes, I do know lots of liberals (strange, I'm fairly conservative but I like to hang out with liberals -- they seem to be into the things I'm into) who hate any government censorship of freedom. It's the "once we get power we'll act like the image we have of conservatives" type of liberals I oppose (like the ones who currently rule Sweden and the ones who seem to dominate certain universities).
  4. I have to admit that my wife reads those kinds of books -- as a typical INTP (Jung personality test) I am the research type that likes to explore journals, texts, etc. However, sometimes I do allow myself to get out of analyzing the mysteries of life. Yes, can you please provide a link to these books Heather ?
  5. In a church talk I heard a long time ago the speaker asked -- "If Christianity became a crime, and we were arrested, would the prosecuter have enough evidence to convict us?" Something to keep in mind. It's interesting, I plan to do some traveling soon -- like in a couple of weeks. I think I'll buy Christmas cards in Russia because they are so beautiful (and cheap) but even though the message is in Russian, you can tell they have the Savior as the center of the card. If in Sweden you rarely get cards that have a religious context -- and they cost a lot anyway. And besides, friends and family won't ignore exotic greetings. Of course, in the USA we can still buy things of a religious nature. I would encourage people to vote with their money in the USA and buy cards and send cards ONLY with religious messages about the holidays, put up decorations that mark the holiday spirit of Jesus and do everything to advertise that -- You are a Christian!
  6. Neat comments. I will have to say, there are no jobs (oh, I guess the term today is career) in which you (male or female) could not be replaced and forgotten in a relatively short matter of time. All jobs except the ones with the title FATHER or MOTHER. I wonder, in the Hadith (pretty sure that was the source) it is recorded that Mohammed encouraged large families because then on the Day of Judgement the people you gave life to would be there to thank you for providing them a home of faith and fear of God (Allah). Should we not (as LDS) have an appreciation for this concept with our knowledge of the pre-existence coupled with the concept of "families are forever"?
  7. My wife calls spoiling kids "curling parents" -- it's the term (used in Sweden and Denmark) for parents who spoil their kids and never let them face life head on. It is named with the Euro game of curling in mind -- a rather boring game to watch where participants sweep obsticles out of the way of a big weight on ice to get it to go as far as it can. Psychologist Alfred Adler (famous for starting the studies on birth order, the effects of the feeling of inferiority - inferiority complex - and coming up with the theory of compensation, often falsely credited to Freud) felt that spoiling a child was a form of abuse. Children who are spoiled grow up believing they are the center of the universe, that the world owes them something, and that the world should give and bow to the child like it's parents have done. Certainly not a good thing. So why do people spoil children? Often to compensate for not spending time with them (and when both parents work, and have resources at their disposal the one or two children common in our society get pampered). Kids are getting fat, developing diabetes at an alarming rate, have a hard time committing to relationships once they are older and often have a hard time at self-discipline. Do I like to give nice things to my kids? Certainly. However, I cannot buy them lots of junk food (like I had growing up) since that would require giving in to 7 kids. They get treats, but, unlike myself, they have to share and they get smaller portions than many kids their age. All are healthy, no obesity and do well in school. I believe that the greatest gift has been to give them brothers and sisters (something I did not have). I have tried to teach my kids the value of money, but that it isn't the most important thing. When I took my son to China (he had to pay half the cost for his ticket) I remember sending him into the markets with 20 dollars and challenging him to buy as many pants (hey, they make them there, and they are cheap) as he could -- which I knew required a great deal of hagling over prices, one of my favorite activities when I am in countries where this is common. He had change when we regrouped and 4 pairs of good quality pants. He used and improved these skills and even talked a guy into selling him a decorative lamp that he did not want to sell from his diner. You may think such things are trivial, but these lessons stick -- maybe that's why kids from the 3rd. world are so good at negotiating sales. I did the same thing with my oldest son when I took him to Russia. He recently graduated high school and seems extremely adept at getting work (he spent the summer working on a cruise ship and visint Europe, Latin America and Hawaii). I guess if I won a lottery I still would try to keep the spoiling to a minimum. Toys, costly apparell, money whenever they want it...it may make us feel better about giving something to our children we might not have had, but then one must ask if we would be where we are today if our parents would have given us everything we wanted.
  8. Wasn't it Lenin who once said that he would admit that people have a right to say what they want, but they have to concede that he had a right to shoot them for saying it? Should be the motto -- of the Swedish government and the political correct crowd here in the US.
  9. Liberals hold up Sweden as a beaken of what socialism could be for the USA. Believe me, there may be a reason for the choice of the word "Borg" for the villians in Star Trek. Borg refers to "fort" in Swedish and the conformity among the people makes a small town in Utah look like a Greatful Dead concert.
  10. Be careful, Freud said joking around was a way to relive the anxiety of repression of id urges buried deep in the sub-conscious.
  11. Strawberry Fields relates this: Yes, wearing costly apparell is a very important goal -- one of the most important lessons of the Book of Mormon. Honestly, why don't individuals try to discover what the person they are dating wants in life? I know a guy who is quite affectionate, loves the outdoors and has a very positive outlook on life. He married a gal who thinks sex twice a month is a chore, absolutely hates the outdoors and is about as depressive as the robot on "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The first date I took my wife on was a hike in the mountains. Our first meal together was chicken strips and coal slaw while on that trip purchased at Albertson's. She loved the adventure -- so I know that she and I would share a very important characteristic in life. She and I also, very early on, were quite frank on sex -- let's just say she asked about certain activities because she knew some Mormons were quite prudish about...let's leave that off the board for now. We also discussed kids, and just about everything under the sun. That's what I teach my kids to do once they are older.
  12. Quite simple Maureen -- I suspect you are an active Lutheran as you list it in your profile. If even active Lutherans have bought into what Protestantism generally regarded as contrary to God and promote birth control as totally okay -- and childbearing as an option, nothing more, then the shrinking numbers may be a reflection. Also, mainstream Protestantism is declining overall anyway. One reason generally cited is that younger members who thirst for God's message (and not a Star Trek, Joseph Campbell version of God) are quiting and joining fundamentalist churches. Less devout young people figure why waste your Sunday's just to fill a seat and hear a nice, non-offensive message and choose other activities instead. The attempt to make Christianity more modern just makes it a shell that most people choose not to devote their time or talents to. Now the issue (at least in Euro-land) is gay marriage in the Lutheran church. The article points out that the majority of priests in Sweden are okay with it and a minority is quite opposed to it. So who is right about God and blessing gay marriage? And who is right about God and the ideal Christian attitude towards kids and "being fruitful and multiplying..."?
  13. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9840787/ This is ultimately what many liberals would like to have here in the USA. Today, a student can get in trouble for questioning homosexuality or opposing university policy that (in the name of political correctness) promotes the agenda of homosexuality. This has spread into some workplaces and public schools. But you can't go to jail -- yet! In Sweden, this Pentecostal minister may go to jail because it is technically illegal to question the morality of homosexuality -- even in a church! If a Mormon gives a talk on homosexuality they can quote scripture, but not then interpret it to say homosexuality is wrong -- same with other churches. This is what Sweden's "hate crime laws" have evolved into. Any thoughts?
  14. Here are the things you can do to boost your immunology and drastically reduce getting the flu in the first place: 1) Exercise a lot -- runners and others who get adequate aerobic exercise greatly increase their immune potential and many avoid flus altogether while freinds and co-workers catch the flu. 2) Have plenty of sex. Various hormones and other chemicals are released that greatly increase immunology. Sex also decreases tension and anxiety which both hurt your immunity. 3) Eat right and take multivitamines high in anti-oxidants. 4) Get plenty of rest.
  15. Oh my gosh, that many Lutherans in Europe? Does that include the 7 million or so in Sweden???? I would seriously doubt even 10% go to church and maybe 1/5 actually believe in their church. Intersting: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...121/ai_n5994670 Almost a quarter of a million Swedes have officially quit the Lutheran Church since the year 2000. Many stay because to die and not be a member means they cannot be buried in a Lutheran graveyard with their ancestors nor can they have a church wedding. Like I said, some people worldwide just don't take their names off the membership. My wife is technically a Lutheran as is her sister, brother and parents. But they aren't Lutheran in any sense of the word. And if you think the situation in Norway and Finland is any different, think again. And speaking of "modern thinking, which Lutheran ministers are following God's word -- the minoarity or the majority? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9840787/
  16. Ah, Maureen, you left out presdient Oaks' prior paragraph delivered at conference: "President Kimball said, "It is an act of extreme selfishness for a married couple to refuse to have children when they are able to do so." When married couples postpone childbearing until after they have satisfied their material goals, the mere passage of time assures that they seriously reduce their potential to participate in furthering our Heavenly Father's plan for all of his spirit children. Faithful Latter-day Saints cannot afford to look upon children as an interference with what the world calls "self-fulfillment." Our covenants with God and the ultimate purpose of life are tied up in those little ones who reach for our time, our love, and our sacrifices." Definently changes the context when he further states (and where you quoted): "How many children should a couple have? All they can care for! Of course, to care for children means more than simply giving them life. Children must be loved, nurtured, taught, fed clothed, housed, and well started in their capacities to be good parents themselves. Exercising faith in God's promises to bless them when they are keeping his commandments, many LDS parents have large families. Others seek but are not blessed with children or the number of children they desire. In a matter as intimate as this, we should not judge one another." http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/s...Control.htm#dho Elder Mark E. Peterson stated: "Your Faith and You, Pg. 121 Some who have been perfectly healthy and able to bear children have avoided this responsibility, and in doing so have resorted to the use of harmful practices and devices resulting often in physical injury to the wife and demoralization to both parties. Some have wondered if the Church would approve such practices. Of course it never has and never could." and... "In this birth control effort man places himself in direct opposition to the plan and laws of God." Then... by Elder J. Ballard Washburn April 1995 General Conference "Thus we see that in marriage, a husband and wife enter into an order of the priesthood called the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. This covenant includes a willingness to have children and to teach them the gospel. Many problems of the world today are brought about when parents do not accept the responsibilities of this covenant. It is contradictory to this covenant to prevent the birth of children if the parents are in good health." That's the LDS Church's OFFICIAL stand. You know that the Pope, who represents a growing church as opposed to the rapidly shrinking Lutheran church, is fully opposed to family limitation. And the Koran states that it is evil to get rid of children for economic reasons (while the reference is to poor people eliminating girl babies modern Islamic scholars interpret this to apply to abortion as well as birth control for economic reasons). Don't get me started on where the Protestnat religion is going, especially Lutheranism as my wife, who is Mormon, is technically a member of the Lutheran Church (never has had her name removed from the parish records). Protestantism in the past had stands that were in many respects more conservative than the Mormon or Catholic stands -- what it needs is a revival, and fast.
  17. Why not the French? Good point. A few of my freinds, none of them conservatives, were commenting yesterday that it brings about a guilty sense of pleasure to see the arrogant French (who rip on everything the US does) shaking in the corner -- of their own country!
  18. Oh, and when I joined the Church I read comments from President Kimball that economics were not a proper consideration in determining family size. Did the church change and I was with the high priests taking a snooze?
  19. Maureen, you can do whatever you please, Lutheranism is fizzling out anyway and if that what family limitation is all about, well, by their fruits ye shall know them. And what, I can find Protestant leaders, as well as Lutheran leaders in Euroland, who believe homosexual weddings should be given full church honors. Just because a view is "modern" doesn't mean it is Biblically correct. And Ben, do you really believe everyone REALLY consults with the Lord in regards to family size? I believe the ones that do generally are the ones with big families, while the ones that think they do are the ones with small families and big SUVs and Hummers. And everybody seems to have a story about Spencer W. Kimball that is used to promote the idea that big families aren't really the norm while President Kimball did PUBLICALLY state that big families are a characteristic of the LDS faith -- because the LDS follow the intent of scripture. I'll stick to comments by church leaders and leave urban legends and individual cases out of the macro-social view that the Church promotes. Also, I can point to a lot of anti family limitations made in conferences even recently but can you show me one pro birth control statement made in the context of a conference? And please don't refer to the handbook unless you can provide me a source where I can read the entire thing on every issue (otherwise it is not doctrine).
  20. Just wondering what people here think of the little civil war taking place in Paris right now -- oh, and spreading into towns across France. France is officially 10% Islamic but with the tiny birthrates of the French and the very high birthrates of the new immigrants from Muslim nations, the Muslim percentage of the youth population (the snapshot of the future) is more like 1/5th.. Is the rioting a sign of things to come in Europe? Can Islam and secular Christianity co-exist or will one have to give way to the other? Any bets on Islamic people actually backing down?
  21. I guess the Kennedy women have shown that women often tolerate their husbands having more sexual partners. That was what it was like in Roman society -- you marry one wife but have access to slave girls/boys and other avenues for affairs. When Christianity was formed three and a half centuries after Christ's ministry the assumptions of Roman "monogamy" just got built in. Again, if you have an argument against the "fairness" of polygamy then I suppose you will have to take that up with God (if you believe in the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). If you have a problem with polygamy and you are Darwinistic then I don't know who you would take that up with as just about every primate species as well as the large herbevoirs like deer, moose, etc. and cat species practice polygamy in nature.