Fiannan
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Posts posted by Fiannan
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Perhaps he condemned the practice because it was against the Word of Wisdom? Or perhaps because it was drugging the kids for a little peace and quiet, rather than to treat a legitimate afflction.
And one wonders what he would say about the society's obsession with prescription drugs. Heck, compare advertising now and just a decade ago -- all kinds of drugs are being pushed on TV commercials. Makes one yearn for the controls over that industry put into effect in countries in Europe.
You support evolution in one paragraph and dismiss it in another. If one accepts evolution, wouldn't one also then accept the idea that humans are no longer hunters and gatherers, and haven't been for some time.
Same processes, different environment of sorts. We just disguize and hide from our primitive heritage.
What's the difference between a "power tie" and a penal shaft that men wear in many islands of the south Pacific? What's the difference between to high school teams fighting it out and when tribes come together for contests of bravery? Isn't dancing merely a display of physical power and dexterity to demonstrate attractiveness in mating? Ancietn Celtic women stripped naked and formed lines in the village centers and urged their warriors to bring back the heads of their enemies when the men went off to battle -- now we have cheerleaders dressed in skimpy outfits. And then we could discuss predatory capitalism.
Unless you want to start manipulating the genes of humans you are stuck with a hunter/predator who has been given the skills to survive in this cold dark terrestrial world. It's up to us to understand the beast and not try to medicate him or her into submission to an artificial set of behavioral standsards.
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"...for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."
I can see by this thread that this scripture is prophetic.
Well, Brigham Young condemned mothers who gave their children alcohol to get them to be quiet during sacrament meeting. Back in the 1980s I lived in a ward where the kids were really quiet -- I found out later that the standard practice mothers used there was to give their kids cough medicine with alcohol in it. Hey, it worked!
Point is, I think it's dangerous (extremely dangerous) to try to create an artificial standard for what is "normal" and then prescribe treatment for the characteristics that fall outside that norm. Why not give growth hormone to people who are short like Tom Cruise or Nickolas Sarkozi? Why not give hormones to people who are too tall to stop them from growing?
If you accept that God created mankind then you have to accept that he gave people the traits they needed to survive and spread these blessings across the human race in order for it to function. If you accept evolution then you have to accept that any trait that seems as common as the misdiagnosed ADHD has to have been there to help us survive as a species.
Our bodies and minds are designed to eat when food is available so when food sisn't there we have storage. We are designed as hunters and nomads no matter how much we don't want to recognize it. Yet modern culture provides us plenty of food coupled with little physical effort to obtain it -- so people get fat. Is that natural? Yes. But the cause of the dangerous health condition requires countering our natural instincts with exercise or better self control, not prescription diet pills.
Males are also designed to be active, to fight, to be agressive and "play" as any mammals are when they are young to learn the skills of survival. It's society that has created an environment where they are expected to sit quietly in church or school or whatever. They are not abnormal because of this, they just need structure in the same way they received in our ancestoral tribal units.
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Hmmm... Perhaps we imagine the fall of the United States with epic visions of mass destruction. But look at the fall of the U.S.S.R. Did anyone die? What great physical calamity took place? The Berlin wall came down without benefit of nuclear warfare. It was a political collapse.
Such is what we are facing in America today. The political system has increasingly been converted to an unsustainable socialist imperialist state, one that will ultimately collapse and the people will again have a chance to return to peace and prosperity if they will resist the temptations to support latter-day Gadiantons in the interest of easy enrichment. God bless the land of the free and the home of the brave and let the tyrants fall into the pits they've digged!
-a-train
There are some major differences between Russia and the USA. When the lights go out in Moscow you don't see widespread looting. Just a thought.
Perhaps the US might face something more akin to The Balkins or what happened in the Caucasas. In these regions people are separated by ethnic, cultural and religious differences and when the power of government ceased to keep the peace everything fell apart.
In European Russia (where Russian majorities existed) there was a sense of Russianes that held people together. Regions where Russians were small minorities saw the dominant ethnic groups declare independence immediately with the US and the EU nations rapidly recognizing their claims. Between these nations there was bloodshed (between Armenia and Azerbaijan for instance) and within these coutries (Georgia's vicious attacks against non-Georgians in the north).
It was not (and still isn't) a peaceful transition.
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Who is this?
According to Wiki, the record for most murders belongs to Vasili Blokhin, who probably killed 6000 people, though, according to Wiki, no victims have been identified.
Dr. Harold Shipman is next, with 218 confirmed victims, and a probable of 250-450.
The woman who commited the most murders is Erzebet Bathory, with 80 known victims, and a probable 650.
Again, these numbers come from Wiki, so I don't know how accurate the information is.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I couldn't find anything online that verified a woman had the highest death rate. So, I'm interested in who it is.
Elphaba
Thanks for the info -- the reason I used Bathory was because the sources I have read list her as the #1 seriel murderer (maybe because it was easier to verify her victim count). And Margin -- no thanks for the snide remark (the point was to say that there are exceptions commonly held views on seriel murderers).
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You know what? Often medication gives us positive results. However, is this proof that a problem exists that needs classification as well as drugs to treat?
Let's say you have a nail stuck in your foot. You can interpret the pain signals to your brain as something that has to be countered so you can take a bunch of pain killers and the symptom of pain will mostly go away. Problem is, you are only treating a symptom and not the real problem. Take the nail out and the pain signals will stop.
Let's say you are really worried that you are going to lose your job. You are up late in anxiety and when you get up you can barely function. Of course, you could take amphetamines to give you energy and alertness throughout the way but that will not take the anxiety away about possible job loos. So maybe the solution is to take powerful sleeping pills. Now you will skeep but you will probably feel grogy in the morning, but that can be solved with your amphetamines.
The above situation could be dealt with in a number of more positive manners without the reliance on drugs but people want a quick fix nowadays. Changing one's mental outlook, taking up relaxing activities or even looking for another job all take more work than taking a magic pill.
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We do know that pornography is addictive. We also know that we have been counseled by our leaders to avoid it.
Yes, it should be avoided for the reasons I specified a couple of posts back in this thread. It is habit forming but not addictive in the psychological or physiological sense of the word.
Our brains are designed to react in a positive manner to sex. Porn excites those centers (substituting the real thing for a counterfit image) and it has turned into big business with not only pornographers taking advantage to human psychology but also hotel chains and telecommunications. It's highly exploitive and that alone should point to how negative an influence it is.
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You know, since so many kids of all ages are being fed drugs nowadays I wonder what would happen if every school in the nation assigned students to read this article:
Health Blog : J&J Backed Child Psychiatry Institute to Support Risperdal Sales
and have to watch this documentary:
news + public affairs player: video
Follow the money might take on a greater significance than one might initially imagine. And if kids are haivng their health and mental safety put in peril could we as a society be doing as great a dis-service to our young as the British did to the Chinese when Queen Victoria forced drugs on the people of China?
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Ted Bundy was mentally ill since birth. I don't know much about Gary Bishop, only the fact that he was a serial killer. Both of these men were really sick and that has nothing to do with making bad choices. I wonder what's your opinion of Ed Gein then.
Are you suggesting that pornography turns people into serial killers? I hope not. Pornography does harm some people but not in those ways that you described. People should be allowed to watch what they want or believe in what they want. Do you have any idea what people think of Mormons? A lot of people today are still very prejudice against Mormons and have these crazy ideas about the LDS chruch (The Mormon Jesus is not the same as the Jesus from the Bible, Mormons have multiple wives,...) are they right?
No!:)
The common characteristic that seems to exist in the people listed here was incredible turmoul in their formative childhood years. Sick? They were legally sane -- although I am not totally sure about Gein.
Pornography contributes to people wanting to engage in sexual practices that can run against Gospel principles such as fornication, adultery, group sex and (as in the case of many young women today) same sex experimentation. The evidence that it affects rape is inconclusive (the Japanese have an incredible use of porn but a low rape rate). I have seen nothing that would indicate that porn causes people to go on murderous rampages.
The causes of seriel murder are not totally understood. Males usually are the ones who engage in it but the individual who has the record for murder was a woman. Most have troubled childhoods but others come from ideal family situations. Most show signs of being psychopaths yet 99+% of psychopathic people never commit murder.
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Movies are just a form of entertainment, just like music. Everyone is welcome to watch whatever they please.
Now, I ask, what kind of movies are appropriate for Latter-day Saints?
Maybe anything you can watch at the Marriot Hotel chain? (Please note the irony I intend to convey here).
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Do you think they had TV back in her day, let alone electricity....
:DOf course they did or else Joe Biden would not have noted that Franklin Roosevelt went on national TV in 1929 to re-assure the public in regards to the Great Depression.
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Should I start packing too??
Not sure, A friend of mine who is really into those "Prophecy Key to the Future" type books quoted me something about the future where some countries in Europe (Sweden was one) would look with shock as the once mighty USA would collapse in an unbelievably fast manner.
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What Scandinavia needs is for the various conservative Christian groups and the Muslim fundamentalists immigrants to unite (politically) and counter these trends. Look, you know as well as I do that most parliament members in Scandinavia would cry like little girls if they knew Muslims were getting mad at them -- and if Christians and Muslims can exercise unity to push for more parental rights and less ammorality in the culture maybe something could be done.
As for entertainment I am not sure. The sad irony is that there is less explicite sex scenes in movies today than in the 1970s because when people want that they can just watch porn on the net. So moviemakers have toned that down but increased the violence. Not sure that is any better though. Once heard a film critic say the irony is (at least in America) that if a woman's breasts are exposed people get more squimish than if a movie has a killer chop the woman's breasts off in the course of a murder.
Weren't the people before the flood condemned for allways having violence in their hearts?
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Texas' constitution states that we have the right to secede from the Union, if we so decide. With some 80% of US oil refining going on here, that would put us in a good trade-relations status with the rest of you.
Kinda strange, I have known people from Alaska who would prefer to link up with Russia rather than have liberals in Washington DC lock up their oil resources.
Has anyone read up on what Neal A. Maxwell has written about the whole exodus to the Rockies by the righteous trying to escape the collapse of social order in what will be what's left of the USA?
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There was also a recent study that showed that people with children are more depressed that people without children. The idea was that kids = stress, and stress = depression, ergo kids = depression.
I'm not sure how much stock I'd put into subjective studies.
Who did that study, some lonely crazy cat ladies? Stress is often blamed for depression but it is not in reality associated with depression. The way we employ coping mechanisms is. Strange, many older people find great happiness in their children and grandchildren so again, I would not put any stock into a study that says this. However, there may indeed be a few women in modern society that (as I made reference to in regards to "Desperate Housewives") feel left out in value if they are not rich career women.
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Hard to say really, but independent research shows Utah is the most depressed state in the country. People have controversially tried to show that there is a correlation between depression and the Mormon faith. Technically at this stage, the reason behind Utah’s mass depression is unknown.
Some experts say that there is a cultural factor involved, in particular among Mormon women who have to put on a mask of perfection to look like a good mother and wife. They can’t show their tears, depression or agony. Perfectionism leads people to depression because its a standard that just can't be reached.
I remember certainly as a missionary and at other times as a mormon that I tried to look perfect for others even when I was troubled. I remember coming back home and taking a role as Ward Exec Sec and finally realising that all those families who I thought were perfect, were actually struggling and miserable, as I sat in on Bishopric and PEC discussions.
I would suggest that those families that seem happy, are probably like me and you. Just human, with their own battles, but at least putting on a happy front. After all, they're commanded to be happy, are they not?
Actually, I think you are referring to the level of anti-depressant drugs used in Utah, and that being quite high in raking with other states. Problem is, we don't know who is using and why.
I have posted articles here that indicate that ACTIVE Mormons have a significantly lower rate of depression than the general population.
Now why would Utah have that whole statistic about drug use though? Here are some possibilities:
1) Gotta admit, if I were totally inactive or a non-Mormon in Utah I'd probably be pretty depressed. It would like being a foreigner living in a remote village in China.
2) Mormons tend to trust authority figures. Unlike, let's say, people from states like Missouri where you question anybody in authority as a norm a Utah Mormon might trust some mental health worker who says a drug might help their kid or themself. Maybe someone from Missouri might be more likely to tell the worker where to insert the drugs. Hey, my dad is from Missouri and everyone I have met from there have this positive trait.
3) Yes, there is a culture in the LDS community that says you have to combine some "Desperate Housewife" image with living the Gospel. Maybe trying to live in two worlds doesn't help in regards to mental health.
4) Well, let's see, we have had lots of people on these boards who are unhappy with some quirk their husband might have (thinking he is some son of Satan or needs professional help) that many women in the US (or the world) would not see anything wrong in being married to a man with this sort of thing going on. The psychological pioneer Alfred Adler had lots to say in regards to depression being caused by one's personal perspective on events in life and the goals they set (too high of an expectation leads to depression as do too low of expectations).
So maybe there are so many variables that we cannot say that LDS people are (statistically speaking) more prone to depression due to anything related to the Gospel. I think a person who is truly in touch with who they are in the eternal perspective will be more likely to be happy and able to cope with what the world throws at them. Just my opinion of course.
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I asked the same question in our priesthood meeting when we were discussing about the relativly small size of our branch. Everyone pretty much responded that it keeps conversations and helps everyone by relateing to our age. Like for example.. Problems that a 20 year old is going to be much different then someone who is 50. And I also thinks it makes it much easier to bond with our other members because I find it easier to talk to someone my own age then talking to older members many of the times.
Not entirely sure this is accurate. You focus on problems but what about interests? I have several female friends in their early 20s and one of my best friends is about 27. The 27 year old as well as one of the younger ones know my wife and there is no "appearances of evil" taking place but the 27 year old has on many, many occasions mentioned that we work extremely well together and have a great time together and the other has mentioned many times being on the same "wavelenth". Now I am nearly twice their age but in relations to common interests, favorite passtimes as well as outlook on life there is no division due to age.
I will note that none of these women are LDS. And in a normal LDS social network there is little liklihood we would have met one another. I can imagine that if I were single and LDS (and had the social network I do today) I would consider dating any number of twenty-something friends I have. So here is where I see the absolute definciency of the current social system set up for LDS people. There MUST be plenty of single LDS men and women who would prefer to meet LDS people for dating and eventual marriage but are divided by arbitrary age limits and wind up dating and marrying people who are non-LDS and also fall into different age categories since people often meet in places like work for instance.
If we got rid of the current system and some 20-something did not want to get to know people older then fine, nobody would be forcing anyone into relationships. Yet there are plenty of people with age differences who can and would hit it off and get married and since it happens in the real world why is it so bad if it happens in the LDS world?
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Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard this in institute classes and in sunday school lessons -- di Joseph Smith predict that someday China and the USA might go to war with each other? Just curious since the Chinese may someday ask us to pay back all that money they have invested in our debt. If we are broke they might not appreciate that in the least.
The USA is in no way immune to the wrath of God -- in fact we as a Christian nation are more inclined to have to pay the debt (so to speak) to God since we have had more exposure to the truth.
The one thing that the Russian observes that Americans are taught to ignore is tribalism. When the USSR broke up you had ethnic groups immediately stake their claim to land and your liniage made all the difference in who you identified with. The same thing is evident in the Balkins, Iraq, all throughout Africa, etc.
In the US election you also saw voting patterns break down on ethnic lines to a dramatic degree. The Book of Mormon seems to indicate that this will hold true in the future as the "gentiles" forsake morality and need to be replaced by people with Lamanite heritage.
So maybe people should take our Russian quite seriously.
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MOSCOW, November 24 (RIA Novosti) - A leading Russian political analyst has said the economic turmoil in the United States has confirmed his long-held view that the country is heading for collapse, and will divide into separate parts. Professor Igor Panarin said in an interview with the respected daily Izvestia published on Monday: "The dollar is not secured by anything. The country's foreign debt has grown like an avalanche, even though in the early 1980s there was no debt. By 1998, when I first made my prediction, it had exceeded $2 trillion. Now it is more than 11 trillion. This is a pyramid that can only collapse."
The paper said Panarin's dire predictions for the U.S. economy, initially made at an international conference in Australia 10 years ago at a time when the economy appeared strong, have been given more credence by this year's events.
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He predicted that the U.S. will break up into six parts - the Pacific coast, with its growing Chinese population; the South, with its Hispanics; Texas, where independence movements are on the rise; the Atlantic coast, with its distinct and separate mentality; five of the poorer central states with their large Native American populations; and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong.
He even suggested that "we could claim Alaska - it was only granted on lease, after all."
RIA Novosti - World - Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.
While some may dismiss what he has to say LDS people may want to see what their church leaders have said about the future -- it sounds pretty much like what the Russian predicts, except the LDS version makes it sound more like a Mad Max world with the righteous of all faiths winding up as refugees -- heading to the Rocky Mountains as the LDS Church will be the only stability left in what used to be the USA.
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please let me know what exactly happened in the garden of eden to divide the human race
sexually?????
He made them male and female perhaps?
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I don't know if you saw Law and Order last night, but it was about a polygamist group like the FLDS. Just because people don't agree with you on some things, it doesn't mean they're persecuting you. Hollywood in general is far more liberal than society itself, so it's not surprising that they were against Prop 8 as a whole. I think that the Governor didn't want to offend his Hollywood friends so he spoke out against Prop 8. Sure, he might be a Republican, but it seems that he's socially liberal when compared to the rest of his party.
Okay, I for one see nothing wrong with a program like Big Love. The story isn't really intended to attack the LDS but rather to portray an alternative lifestyle in what I feel is a fair and reasonable manner.
What I don't like is when a Hollywood film gives a villian a particular religion and creates an impression that the religion is also corrupt. Usually it has been conserviative religious groups that take the heat -- especially Catholics. Jews don't get portrayed badly since much of the entertainment industry is at least of Jewish background. Few in the entertainment industry are Mormons, fundamentalist Christians or conservative Catholics. So even if there is no agenda in the hearts of a writer or producer if nobody important in the making of a movie or program are Christian conservatives perhaps nobody asks the question "Is this portrayal over the edge?".
In recent years homosexuals have become a large proportion of the entertainment industry. Also, most of Hollywood is politically liberal so they generally support portrayal of homosexuals in a manner to "sell" a more normalized and acceptable version of homosexuality to the public. Since Mormons are now the new "KKK" (so to speak) in the minds of the homosexual community then I suspect we will see programs depicting Mormons in a light that is hardly sympathetic.
Now all we have to do is see next year's productions to see if this comes to pass.
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So you admit shades of gray--even in the pornography industry.
Let's just be careful not to assume that because an industry has shades of gray doesn't mean that they span the entire spectrum from black to white. To illustrate, consider the two hypothetical black-white spectra for Planned Parenthood and Pornography:
Black______________ Shades of Gray_________________ White
Planned Parenthood
(----------+----------+----------+---------+----------+----------)
Pornography
(----------+----------+------)
It's perfectly possible for the spectrum of one industry/organization to span the entire scale from black to white while another only covers a portion of it. We could also have a spectrum for drinking caffeinated sodas that has plenty of gray, but touches neither black nor white.
Caffeinated Sodas
_________(--------+---------+----------+--)
How much gray are we willing to tolerate before we draw the line at good and evil? It's a question that is hard to answer because it varies by application, organization/industry, and by the individual involved. There are so many variables that have to be considered that we can really only make the decision on a case by case basis.
Note: In saying this, I do not deny that there exist issues that are undeniably wrong. I only mean to say that it can be difficult to categorize an organization on the solely on the undeniably wrong. For instance, a man who encourages a woman to have an abortion is engaging in a wicked act, but does that make the man entirely evil?
Yes, all issues have black and white. Look at the accomplishments of Germany from 1933 to 1945:
Laid the foundation for the development of the US NASA program.
Created the first interstate freeway system.
First government to promote animal rights legislation.
First national park system in Europe.
Went from poverty to relative prosperity (destroyed by the war of course).
Problem was a ffew other items that tend to blacken their reputation.
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Males have few rights in this matter. If a woman wants an abortion she can have one for whatever reason. Yet if she fishes out a condom after the act from the garbage and impregnates herself the guy has a legal obligation to pay child support.
Worse case I heard of a few years ago involved a babysitter doing it with a 12 year old boy (I think it was against his will as well). Later she discovered he got her pregnant and she sued for child support and was awarded it.
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People seem very willing to focus solely on the fact that PP provides abortions, even when it is pointed out that providing abortions is not the majority of what they do. Anyone who doesn't want to support PP shouldn't do so, either in giving money or in using their services. But to say, categorically, that the organization is inherently evil and that no Christian should use their services is absurd. (I am aware that you did not say this; I'm talking about the premise of this thread.)
That reasoning could be used for a lot of organizations as well as social issues. Take pornography for example. A few days ago I was in a discussion with someone on an unrelated issue and she said something about pornography. She said that overall it is quite benificial to society. When I started to challenge her she said that it helps people be creative and I was forced to admit that many marriage and sex therapists use pornography when someone in a relationship has problems opening up sexually. I suppose it allows many young women to be able to go to college, helps keep many off welfare and even might help with the overall birthrate (a female Christian Democrat in Sweden got publicity a few years back when she suggested state TV play non-stop porn on Saturdays to assist in raising the fertility rate).
Doubt any organization on earth is totally without some merit. Doesn't make what they promote right though.
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There are already some shows taking shots at us, Big Love???, House. But what about the Mormon actors? Will they be "black-listed" or shunned once people realize they are Mormon?
Could place the Mormon actor who plays the gay guy on Desperate Housewives in a strange position I suppose if any of that show's creators had some sort of agenda.
On the issue of homosexuality and Hollywood has anyone noticed in the show "True Blood" how much the issue of homosexual acceptance seems cloaked in the show's depiction of vampires fighting for equality in modern society?
Doping kids -- it's time to question the practice.
in General Discussion
Posted
Sure is more natural than mind-altering drugs, wound't you say?
Also, one wonders the cost effectiveness between a Catholic nun with a ruler teaching 50 boys in the 2nd. grade or the cost of having to keep up drug company sales people, doctors and multi-billion dollar prescription drug industry.
I'd rather have the nun.