abqfriend
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Posts posted by abqfriend
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Thankyou for giving the LDS position without blaming the Roman Catholic Church for every wrong that has ever affected Christianity till the "Restoration" as you believe it which happened less than 200 years ago.
Needless to say-our views on church history are vastly different but-
We have the same Loving Heavenly Father.
May our Hevenly Father bless each of us.
Carol
One thing to note about the Great Apostasy, as the LDS view it, is that we don't believe God ceased to strive with man. IIRC, many GA's have flat-out stated (in General Conference!) that we as a people owe much to the Reformers and other men throughout the history of Christianity who, despite not having the correct authority or Holy Ghost, still strove and moved towards true Godliness.
If it were not for the existence of the Catholic church, we would not have had a base set of beliefs from which the Reformation sprung.
Without the Reformation, there could not have been a politically and theologically free society in which the true Gospel could be restored. Indeed, the Reformation was directly and indirectly responsible for many, many good changes withing the whole of Christianity.
While we do not believe that authoritative power or doctrinal correctness was to be found on earth during the Great Apostasy, we still owe much to the men and women who fought and died for the cause of Christ- the true cause, led by the true spirit of God. Say what you will about the people who initially wrought the Apostasy; the brave Christians who came afterwards helped form the framework from which the Restoration could emerge.
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Congratulations on your faith journey!
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As a Catholic-we have a slightly different view of when apostolic succession continued-I would agree with the Apostle -Peter-and then onward. I also believe in it very literally. Our different views on Church History bring us to different conclusions.
-Carol
Latter Day Saints do believe in Apostolic Succession, but we believe it a bit more literally. We believe that the continuation of Apostles is an essential characteristic of the true Church of God. We believe that Peter, James and John re-established the succession of Apostles through Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery.
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The English Standard Version (ESV) gives it this way:
"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
Even in the case of Judas-I would leave his ultimate destination up to a loving and just God.
-Carol
Kindly explain your use of the word "probably," Faded. Jesus explicitly identifies Judas as a Son of Perdition (John 17:12, KJV). There's no ambiguity here at all--unless you think Jesus may have been mistaken...
--Erik
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I am a Roman Catholic and I deeply respect the LDS focus on a 2 year mission. I only wish my own Church did the same.
Theologically-and spiritually-I guess as Christians-our mission never ends. Sharing our Message of Hope and Love to a hurting world should never end.
Each of us have high's and lows on our spiritual journey of life.
Some churches that I know-have near their main exit in the back of their church or signs as they exit the parking lot the following: "You are Now Entering the Mission Field."
How appropriate!
May our Heavenly Father bless each of us on our Mission.
-Carol
On my other blog: Grace for Grace, I wrote about the phrase: "When I was on my mission."
It seems like we hear it so often, but I wonder why we have to fall back to our missions? Why don't we share current experiences more often?
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Can you give a specific OT or NT reference for this? I am weak on the OT and more versed on the NT-but an OT reference would be best.
-Carol
Aaron was in charge of the sacrifices and the general care of the Tabernacle. However, Moses was in charge of the tabernacle itself.
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As a Roman Catholic -I would disagree with your premise-which makes apostate nearly 1800 years of Christianity and it's message and messengers.
That- among other things are reasons why each of us may think and believe differently.
May our Heavenly Father bless each of us.
You are Loved and so am I.
-Carol
It is man's work that is always frustrated, not God's. His work rolls on in spite of us. It was man who crucified Christ and killed His apostles. It was man who rejected the truths, which were being preached by His disciples and apostles. When the last apostle was killed, there was no more authority to act in God's name. This is what we call the Apostacy; a falling away, and it was prophecied of in the Bible.
It took that long for God to prepare man to receive His truths again and even then, as religiously excited as people were in the 1800's during the "revival" they still found it abominable that an angel would appear to a boy, even that he would or could be visited by God, himself. So yes, it took that long, not for God to show His power, but for man to be even the slightest prepared.
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Sacramentals are distinctive to the Catholic Church and some other churches such as Orthodox. They are different than Sacraments. A Rosary blessed by a priestly prayer is considered a Sacramental. A special medallion-such as I have which has been blessed by a priest and has a piece of cloth in it that touched the remains of a specific saint-St. Anthony-in my case--is considered a sacramental.
"Sacramentals are instituted for the sanctification of certain ministries of the Church, certain states of life, a great variety of circumstances in Christian life, and the use of many things helpful to man. In accordance with bishops' pastoral decisions, they can also respond to the needs, culture, and special history of the Christian people of a particular region or time. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a specific sign, such as the laying on of hands, the sign of the cross, or the sprinkling of holy water (which recalls Baptism). "
Here is a detailed link on the meaning and purpose of sacramentals in the Catholic Church:
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
does the lds church have sacramentals? sacramentals such as the catholic church has. is there anything comparable in the lds faith?
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The Catholic Church has several different "Rites" or parts that make up the Church. The Roman "Rite" is by far the largest. There is also the Byzantine Rite and others. In the Byzantine Rite-Men may be married before entering the Priesthood. As married priests-they cannot achieve Bishop status nor can they re-marry should their wife die.
In the Roman Catholic Rite-Deacons can be married when entering the Diaconate-but should their wife die-they may not re-marry. Such is the same for a very small number of Priests who have entered the Catholic Church after converting from Anglican/Episcopal backgrounds.
The celibacy rules of the Church are teachings and not doctrine-which means that such a rule may be changed in the future. Doctrines do not change, but rules can be changed. So-a future Teaching Magesterium of the Catholic Church acting in council with the Pope's blessing-could change such a rule-although this is unlikely-at least in the near future.
-Carol
The celibate priest issue is different - that is an administrative rule of the Church, not a dogmatic teaching. There are two married Roman Catholic priests in our local area - they were Anglican priests who converted to the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope is allowing them to stay priests even though they are married.
That would be different than something like saying birth control is suddenly permitted which is an extension of dogmatic teachings.
Catholics believe that Peter was made the head of Christ's Church while Jesus was here on Earth and that this authority granted to Peter has been handed down one leader after another all the way to the current Pope. Through this office, the Pope can have revelation and, through a formal process that involves the college of Cardinals, can introduce that private revelation into the dogma of the church.
There have also been private revelations to people that the Catholic Church has recognized and has accepted as Truth (with a capital T), but again that involves a very long investigation and approval process.
Does that help?
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I would encourage anyone with an interest in Islam to read the Holy Qur'an as I would encourage anyone who has an interest in the LDS Church to read The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants-and draw your own conclusions as the Spirit guides you.
-Carol
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The same could be said for the need for a second husband.
One is just right for me.
-Carol
No need for a second wife. With a second wife comes additional inlaws, trips to the mall and all the other things that comes with having females around. One is more than enough for me to handle.
Ben Raines
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Christmas gets it's name from Christ-Mass-the Catholic mass that celebrates Christ's birth-this evolved into Christmas.
In the Catholic Church-going or not going to Mass on Christmas for the Christ-Mass is not an option. It is a requirement of our faith tradition and considered as a Holy Day of Obligation-which means it is considered a "sin" if we do not attend church this day--that is the importance the Catholic Church puts on the Christ-Mass.
Santa Clause-comes from the Catholic/Greek Saint Nicholas
Saint Nicholas ::: Origin of Santa
St. Nicholas - Saint of the Day - American Catholic
"Both the Eastern and Western Churches honor him, and it is claimed that, after the Blessed Virgin, he is the saint most pictured by Christian artists. And yet, historically, we can pinpoint only the fact that Nicholas was the fourth-century bishop of Myra, a city in Lycia, a province of Asia Minor.
As with many of the saints, however, we are able to capture the relationship which Nicholas had with God through the admiration which Christians have had for him—an admiration expressed in the colorful stories which have been told and retold through the centuries.
Perhaps the best-known story about Nicholas concerns his charity toward a poor man who was unable to provide dowries for his three daughters of marriageable age. Rather than see them forced into prostitution, Nicholas secretly tossed a bag of gold through the poor man’s window on three separate occasions, thus enabling the daughters to be married. Over the centuries, this particular legend evolved into the custom of gift-giving on the saint’s feast. In the English-speaking countries, St. Nicholas became, by a twist of the tongue, Santa Claus—further expanding the example of generosity portrayed by this holy bishop."
The Christmas Tree has a combination of Pagan and Christian traditions associated with it:
We live in a multi-religious and multicultural society. I would like to see the birth of Christ celebrated as a religious holiday. I have no problem with a Winter Break, etc-but keep the religious significant separate.
The Jewish faith would find it insulting combining Christian/Pagan symbols with their Festival of Lights-or Hanukkah. Celebrating the cleansing of their Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
-Carol
I'm get really annoyed with people trying to make Christ an offensive term. Such as the huge thing a few years about Walmart or something saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Also in schools they call it Winter break instead of Christmas Break. People seem so concerned about not mentioning Christmas because it might be offensive.
My question is, isn't there so much Christmas that a person of any religion can celebrate it? WE all know the same old story about early Christanity adapting the pagan holidays, yada yada yada. But why can't a Jew celebrate Christmas? Can't they just exclude the Christ parts and have Santa, Christmas trees, Presents, etc.
I dunno but it seems to me that it would be so easy to sidestep the Christ part that anyone can celbrate it. And if it is a holiday that is applicable to everyone then why should anyone get offended when mentioning Christmas.
What do you all think?
Disclaimer: I'm not saying we should take Christ out of Christmas. I'm just saying that for those who don't believe in Christ why can't the celebrate Christmas without it being about Christ. Can't they have Christmas be about Santa or something?
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The court was justified in my opinion. The problem was in the visitation rights agreed upon by both parties and a violation of those agreed upon rights.
They should have set up the visitation rights agreement differently-and there would have been no legal case.
-Carol
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If I read Paul's initial discussion right-he was concerned about his bishop always knocking the Catholic Church. He has a Catholic background. We indeed have our differences. Sharing those differences may not be helpful at this juncture. My guess is Paul has heard this all before--perhaps too much so.
What Paul needs-in my opinion is Love and understanding and talking to others-perhaps outside both faith traditions. Also- If he can find a friendly Catholic Priest and a friendly Bishop of the LDS Church-that too may be helpful.
Caring is important.
I also agree with Prison Chaplain " you must slowly by whole-heartedly seek the face of God.
-Carol
Wow, you do have a story going here!
The Church of Jesus Christ and the Catholic church do have a lot of the same beliefs and ideals, BUT, The Church of Jesus Christ goes deeper into the meaning of life, where we come from, why we are here, where we are going. You could teach your children about both faiths BUT then you would be able to teach them WHY you joined the Church of Jesus Christ because it goes further, answers more, is actually TRUE! IF you delve in to the history of the catholic church, how it came to be, how they stored their scriptures, what they did to them, why the dark ages happened, what happened when the printing press was developed, why all of the other churches broke off and formed, then you would have a better foundation to learn about the Church of your wife's family. Then you would better understand why it is causing the upheavel that is going on now. Her family is scared! They want their grandkids taught the truth.
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The article mentioned nothing about the new future leadership in Washington bringing about this change-as it has been talked about for years.
The new administration does not take effect until Jan 20th 2009.
I have no problem with increased security in our nation-ideally by our local and state agencies supplemented by our National Guard.
Recent Tragedies elsewhere-heighten the threat that anything is possible or to be expected from terrorist groups.
The Boy Scout Oath sounds good to me: "Be Prepared."
-Carol
So it looks like our new president is getting a new army for him to keep us in line... MSNBC also says that they are planning on "the event of a nuclear weapon being detonated in a U.S. city" by 2011 geez, where have we heard that before??? Here's the link. Pentagon to detail plan to bolster security - Washington Post- msnbc.com
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Hi Paul,
I am a Catholic. Thank You for sharing.
Yes-Inter-faith marriages can be difficult. I am sorry that you were turned off by your local bishop. Some priests in the Catholic Church are less responsive to parishioner's needs than others-however in the Catholic Church-if this is a problem for a parishioner -switching to a different parish may solve the problem.
Yes-there are major differences between LDS teachings and Catholic teachings.
Catholics and LDS may disagree on major things-but they are both pro-family and today-they are talking more to each other and having more discussions.
Yes-Pray about how things are.
From what I know about the LDS Church-switching to a different Ward/bishop is not usually done.
I would encourage you to share how you feel with a counselor-perhaps outside both religious faith traditions.
At some point-your wife may need to know your feelings-that is may take some effort on your part in beginning such a discussion-but first more counseling may be helpful.
I sense that you Love your wife very much.
My husband and I were both Lutherans when we married. About 9 years ago-he converted to Catholicism. I remained a Lutheran-but converted 2 years later. There was some conflict-but Lutheran and Catholic are much closer theologically than LDS and Catholic-thus part of your dilemma.
LDS Marriages are sealed for all eternity in a Temple ordinance/rite-that is something to consider too. As you were both married in the LDS Church-it would be wonderful if you could both remain there. An understanding caring bishop would be most helpful to you.
Inter-Faith marriages can work-they are difficult-and need the loving prayerful support and counsel to both husband and wife and their respective faith traditions.
-Carol
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A good Question you ask.
The basis of my belief as a Catholic is based on Faith and Reason.
I believe the Sacred Scriptures are true in matters of faith.
I believe in the 2000 year history of my Church-that points to Christ.
I believe in the leaders/Teaching Magesterium of my Church in pointing me to Christ my Lord and Savior as they teach with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I believe the Bishop of Rome-the 'Pope" is the supreme Bishop of the earthly Church.
I believe in the Sacraments of my Church in bestowing God's free gift of Grace upon me.
I believe Jesus Christ my Lord is present body, blood soul and divinity in the Sacred Host and Sacred Blood.
I believe in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Faith and Reason have led me and billions more to have that same belief.
-Carol
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I am a Catholic here myself-welcome.
You will find some very nice people here on this web site.
Carol
You'll find we have many Catholics on this site. We love them. Welcome to the site.
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In a sense, we are all mentally handicapped or mentally challenged.
We are all created by a loving Creator. Things happen in life and in our development stage as a fetus. Most issues regarding mentally challenged have to do with genetic differences while others happen due to low oxygen to the brain at time of birth or due to accident.
I do not blame God for things that happen to a person through no fault of their own.
I do not believe in Pre-existence-so that is not an issie for me.
God is Love!
The book that has helped me regarding issies of life and death and suffering and why some people are different than others is written by a Jewish Rabbi. Harold Kushner in his Classic "Why bad things happen to good people" provides some insight.
On the other side of life-why do people get Altzheimers and other mind robbing ailments?
For most- people-things happen due to disease or the natural ebb and flow of life to death.
Evil does exist and evil can cause some problems like war and the incineration of millions of Jews.
Natural events happen too and God does let these happen-but I do not see God as the cause.
My husband, who is a nurse has terminal pancreatic cancer. I nor he blames God for this disease that will soon end his life. We do wonder why?-but we do not blame God as the cause.
God is all loving all kind and all merciful.
-Carol
Why are some people on this earth mentally handicapped? I was in a gas station last night. A van pulled up and let some mentally handicapped people out to get drinks.
Are these people this way because they were so righteous in the pre-life that Father made them this way so they would not have to experience all the horrors and sadness of this life? Are some of them made that way because they were great warriors during the war in the pre-life and received wounds so bad that they carried over to this life?
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Greetings from another Catholic! It is great to see you here. I converted to the Catholic faith myself-also with the RCIA process. I was Lutheran before that.
Welcome to you.
-Carol
I'm a newly converted Catholic, actually. I was raised a Presbyterian and got lazy in my teenage years - did leave God, but wanted to sleep and hang out ore than go to church. I searched through several churches and gave a local Catholic church a try. Something changed inside of me. I felt a renewed desire to worship and I went through their RCIA process about two years ago.
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I am Catholic not LDS-so I do not know what your sacrament is composed of.
Our bread/host has no soy in it-if it did it would not be considered valid.
My Church teaches that we only need to take one of the two bread/host or wine/blood to be considered a sacrament. I realize the LDS use water-could you just take the water?
Also there is an ultra-low wheat bread/host used for those parishioners who have ciliac disease.
I do not know if your church would consider adapting the sacrament to your allergy limitations-so these are only suggestions.
I applaud your efforts in wanting to partake of the scrament as you understand it.
-Carol
I realized today that my daughter can't take the sacrament because of her being allergic to soy, and bread has soy in it. She also may have celiac disease (hopefully we'll find out in the next couple weeks) which means definitely no bread, even if we find some without soy. Does anyone know what I should do? I stopped a member of the stake presidency after sacrament meeting today and asked him and he said he would see what he could find out for me. But I thought someone else might know and then I could save him some work. Anyone know what I should do or how I can find out?
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Perhaps if permission granted by the member ---a moderator could email them.
After a certain amount of time-they should be dropped-but I would make an effort to re-engage before dropping.
Carol
Recently I noticed that although the Forum has over 16,000 members, only about 2,000 members are active. This got me thinking...
What can be done to reactivate the inactives? The moderators could divide them up and assign them to active members for fellowshipping. Or there could be firesides in the chat room focused on the benefits of being active. Any other suggestions?
Steve
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Thank you-the links were helpful.
Yes-It would also be helpful if the LDS had such a one work listing and explanation of all canonical doctrine-that would be helpful.
-Carol
-Carol
Hi, lurker here.
It seems as though you desire a definitive, one-work contains all summary of canonical doctrine (I assume, in a form that may be similar to the Catechism). The closest documents I know of are the True to the Faith gospel reference book, and the Sunday School manual Gospel Principles, both of which missionaries (including me) have used to explain even more complicated doctrines to inquiring potential members and new members, in a simple, concise manner.
It may not be a full-scale doctrinal treatise on the level of, say, Talmage's Jesus the Christ, but it goes a long way towards summarizing our doctrines in one location.
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Thank You for your answer-it provided the clearest answer to my question-Thank You.
-I appreciate everyone elses responses too-quite a group of opinions expressed.
Everyone-Thank You.
-Carol
Carol,
Based on my observations over the years, you're never going to get a consensus on what is or isn't Mormon doctrine.
The answer depends on who you ask, and you'll get a number of different responses.
The most careful answer is that it is only what is contained in the Mormon canon, i.e. the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price. Anything other than those should not be considered doctrine.
On the other hand, many members believe even articles in the Ensign are doctrine, or else the Church would not have published them. Yet others insist they are not.
Additionally, many members believe talks given at General Conference are doctrine. Others insist they are not.
I have never read, or heard, of any firm answer to your question. The answer I see most often is only the Mormon canon is doctrine.
But, as you've seen, the Church's officials have not defined what is doctrine or not, so it's impossible to know for sure.
In fact, if they did so, there would be questions as to whether that was doctrine or not.
Elphaba
What's so hard to understand about the Trinity vs. the LDS Godhead?
in Christian Beliefs Board
Posted
In ages past-early Christianity-there were many views circulating on who Jesus was and on such views as Trinity and non-Trinitarian views. There was no easy agreement. Such was the subject of many council's debate.
Creeds of the early church were one way to summarize and codify church beliefs in one way.
If you went to some remote Island that never heard of Christianity-and gave 100 people a Bible-and asked them to read it-then asked them about the concepts of Trinity or Godhead in simple terms-what would be their response?-I doubt you would have agreement.
So the LDS Church has it's prophets to clarify such things and more in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants and the proclamations of past and current prophet.
The Catholic Church has the Teaching Magesterium of the Church and Church Councils and the Pope to clarify such things in a different way. The Catholic Church believes it's leaders are guided by the holy spirit in all truth.
-so-no easy answers-we believe differently.
Let us work together where we can to a world hurting physically, emotionally and spiritually.
We each have the same Heavenly Father -who loves each of us very much.
-Carol