GoodK

Well I am sorry to hear that. I assure you my intention is to engage in conversation. And I would be lying if I didn't say my intention in this thread is to steer people away from what I find to be an ignorant and intolerant way of thinking. I think it is possible to reason your way out of that sort of thinking.

This is what it felt like for me.

You can call it a secular view if you like. I didn't know dissenting opinions were not allowed here. Feel free to ask a moderator to ban me. Hardly the same thing. And that never happens... does it?! I am certainly glad a new political generation decided that slavery should be thrown away. Or laws preventing interracial marriage. I'm glad they decided it was no longer "reasonable" to own humans as property. You are conveniently neglecting to mention that these God fearing men knew that it would be vital to seperate church and state. What precedent? The Old Testament? Are you kidding? Like...

Hmmm... maybe you missed my point. We do mold our government via voting and elected officials, yet we do not mold our government to respect select religious doctrine. It is not your job to mold the government to match your religious faith. That would be, gee, I don't know, a disaster. Well your knowledge is certainly lacking, then. Perhaps you should read up a bit. (I'll give you a hint, but you really need to do your own homework: not a single civil union law in any state offer gay couples every right that comes with marriage.) And how are they not leaving "us hetros alone?" By not joining your faith, or calling themselves evil? By not changing the way they live in respect of your beliefs? Is there anything more unChrist-like than that? You obviously do care, if you didn't why would you object? If a piece of paper doesn't change anything, why do you care so much. Obviously the Lord won't recognize the marriage, so why do YOU feel the need to object to it. Spend your time doing something more productive. Instead of lobbying politicians to interfere with personal relationships and freedoms, why not lobby them to end poverty and hunger in third world countries? Why not go out and pick up some trash along the highway? Why not lobby for recycling programs in apartment complexes? In fact, I could probably think of thousands of things that would benefit humanity, society, America, and you personally better than trying to prevent people from marrying eachother. Of course not. It would be funny, if you didn't seem to believe this yourself. How could anyone possibly think this? We've known for more than 50 years that disease is not caused by sin. This belief - I almost dare not repeat it - that AIDS is sent from God to punish people who aren't having sex the right way, is not rooted in doctrine, church teachings, common sense, science, logic, or even careful thought. I can't believe you said that. What the heck are you talking about? I never mentioned your apparent conversations with the Lord. To be frank, I don't care if you believe the LORD told you something about it. How do you know he didn't talk to ME about it? Clearly. And through virus', according to you. So it's your job to punish sinners? Why do you think that? I must have missed the part where the Proclamation said you needed to concern yourself with what other people do in the privacy of their own home. Feel free to quote it again, forgive me for being dense. No, I do not take that to be the Lord asking us to defend marriage. I think the Lord is probably more concerned with how we live our lives, not what we do to change the way other people get to live theirs.

We have a say in who the judges are. The Judicial branch has always been a vital aspect of our government. Justices interpreting law is not a recent development. We NEED them to interpret and implement the laws. It is naive to think that voters simply vote on laws, how they should be applied, and what happens to those that don't follow them. You don't simply check a box and Walah! the police are now informed of this new law. I suggest you try and search You Tube for the School House Rock that talks about how a Bill becomes law. I think you are confusing acceptance with tolerance. No one will be forcing you to accept something you believe is wrong. You just can't persecute people for it in an unlawful manner. How does gay marriage affect you, personally? And feel free to follow that tangent, how does someone's abortion affect you, personally? Amen.

Examples? Skeptics of what? I beg your pardon? This is absolutely and demonstratably false. I object to homosexual behavior, as in I do not engage in it, find it appealing, etc... but I have never been sued nor would any court in any state in America find me liable for my objection. You should really correct this statement. You are mixing truth with fiction here. Discrimination is not tolerated, but merely "objecting" to homosexual behavior is not considered discrimination. With all due respect, you are either lying or speaking from ignorance here. The court has not "elevated homosexual behavior to a constitutional right" Why do you say such false things? Would you really like to live in a society that governs what goes on in your bedroom? You really want to live in a theocracy? How about Iran? Supposedly there are no homosexuals there... Actually yes, it does. The constitution does give people the right to ignore their faith and individual creed. You have the freedom to be a Mormon, Jew, Scientologist, Jehova's Witness, member of PETA, NAMBLA, etc... and the laws of men are what is important in matters of government. The God fearing men that authored the constitution knew well enough to seperate church and state. God says a lot of things. He says you shouldn't eat swine. Should we make sweet and sour pork illegal? Is legalizing the consumption of bacon a persecution of civil society? Should we require people to pay tithing? Add it to their taxes? Just because you choose to cherry pick something out of the Bible and use it as justification to call something an abomination, does not mean that we need to turn our democracy into a theocracy. Respect is a two way street. You respect the rights of other citizens that don't believe what we believe, and they may respect your right to believe they are an "abomination".. And I find it repulsive to see that such intolerance is rooted in uninformed, poorly thought out reasoning.

And it doesn't take a Holy Man to see when someone is inventing doctrine.

Interesting. I'd be interested to hear what exactly I wrote that you found belittling. It's beside the point, but an odd interpretation in my opinion. Sadly, I read the article twice. Again this morning, just to make sure that what the author was saying was void of any references or citations for the events the writer is claiming to have happened. Sorry, but I don't wish to swallow what some writer posessing an anti-homosexual agenda says without some sort of factual basis. Let me add some bold and color for you: There is no factual basis to support the author's anti-homosexual hysteria. And real journalists cite their sources. I find it suspect that you quote a catholic website when it suits you. Do you know the Vatican recently condemned the church for its baptisms for the dead and geneology work? I guess whatever suits YOUR agenda is useful, eh? Twice is enough, more than it deserves. If this is even true - there is no way for us to know, as the author forgot to cite her sources like a real journalist would be required to do. I guess the sumbission guidelines over at the Catholic Register are a bit lax, eh? But if it was true, so what? People get sued all the time, for no good reason. Welcome to America, my friend. I can guarantee that the photogropher wasn't thrown in some Soviet-esque jail cell. You are really relying on this Catholic Register article, aren't you? We have no way to know what happened, the journalist never cited a source. We don't even know if it is true, let alone the details. Who owned the facility? This is most certainly nonsense, or spin. (but in my personal opinion, and this is for another thread, church's don't deserve tax-exempt status). Nonsense. Prove it. A government is not telling religion that. Religion is, in fact, trying to tell government what is acceptable. And that is foul and runs in the face of everything that is American. No. Don't you have any original ideas, or do you rely solely on this authors shoddy "article". You must not have been in the country long, because this is absolutely not "pretty amazing". I really doubt that frivolous lawsuits against doctors can be attributed to homosexual marriage. But anti-homosexual propaganda clearly has no regard for what is true or not. Just as long as they can work anti-homosexuals into a frenzy. Ya, I'm kidding. An anti-homosexual article in the Catholic Register is representative of the church. YOU have got to be kidding me. It's not the government's job to promote strengthening of the family. Why would you want the government to? Do you wish to turn America into a theocracy? It is not your job to interfere with other families. Live and let live. As much as you would like to pretend, none of your rights are in jeopordy as a result of a homosexual marriage. I'd love to, but I have no clue who they are. Or when this supposedly happened. I guess that's what happens when you rely on faux-journalism. Gay marriage does not equal the disintegration of family. And if it did, it isn't your job to change that. It's the Lord's job to dish out consequences for sin, not yours. Get it? I'm simply godsmacked that some people feel obligated to mold this government into what they want it to be. They seem to enjoy freedom when it benefits them, yet they can't stand to see other people enjoy a freedom they don't find acceptable. Hypocritical? Why not just leave people alone? Why not just let people be? Why concern yourself with what people do in the privacy of their bedroom? I think that if the Lord really had a problem with gay marriage, He would do something about it. He didn't ask you, or any of us, to do anything about it.

The picture I get is that you are willing to invent church doctrine to suit you. What a surprise. Please don't pretend to know me or my testimony. Your display on this board is shameful, to say the least.

F.Y.I. I have been a member all my life. I know how we do it. Agreed.

So... it's not necessarily a bad thing when you consider the merits of certain counsel?

Yikes !

Please do. At least I'll know you read it :)

I'm not really sure how the Blogging here works. I guess blogs don't appear on personal profiles? Well, I posted it to the Blogs section. It's called A Proposal for Same-Sex Marriage.

I wrote an essay on this very subject almost 2 years ago, yet it seems to be quite applicable now. It's currently posted at another website, but heck, I'll post it to my blog here. If I can figure out how. Check it out.