unixknight

Except that marrying for love is not unique to Christianity nor is it even a component of it. Christianity has been dominant in Europe for over two thousand years but marriage for love? That's never been universal in history and it didn't change with the growth of Christianity. Marrying for love (or not) has more to do with culture than religion. That's a common card to play against Trump supporters because it's an attempt to paint them as hypocritical.

Christianity is beside the point. The point is that it's the West right now where marriage is considered to be all about emotion and nothing else except maybe job or tax benefits, and how marrying for love seems to correlate with higher divorce rates.

I don't agree that quality is superior elsewhere. As @anatess2 noted, people with enough money come here even from Canada and the UK to get treatment either because U.S. facilities are better, or because the single payer system inevitably leads to very, very long waits for treatment. The only advantage in those places is cost, but even that is mitigated when you consider their higher tax rates to pay for it. Not to mention cases like Charlie Gard last year... A young boy who was dying from a brain disorder, IIRC. His parents wanted to take him elsewhere for treatment because British doctors had declared that he couldn't be saved. Doctors in the United States offered to treat him for free, because they had methods that had a chance of saving Charlie. Quoth the U.K. Government: "Nope. Charlie stays here." And so Charlie's parents had to watch him die when there's a chance he could have been saved here. I leave it to you to speculate about the motives of the British system. Show me a country with a single payer system and I'll show you long wait periods for treatment and rationing.

I'm sticking to "the West." I feel pretty comfortable considering Japan a First World nation and they still have a very traditional view of marriage. China too. There's a heavy sense of duty in those cultures that's virtually nonexistent on this side of the planet. That said, I do agree that most of our social problems can only exist in a culture that's "advanced" to the point where people have time for this stuff. The Roman Empire is a good example. I have seen some pretty compelling research that shows that Rome fell gradually because of its own decadence and complacency, and not because of external attack.

I think @MormonGator has a point though, in the way we in the West see this stuff. It's a fact that we're constantly bombarded with media and clothing styles meant to appeal to peoples' sexual desires, and it isn't just men. Pick up any random romance novel, any drama TV show or movie, and most comedies... Somebody is getting cheated on. It's our favorite source of drama as a culture, and boy, does this culture love to lure people away from their spouses. We're surrounded by media that wants us to think about sex 24/7 if at all possible and so it's more critical now than ever before that the marriage be able to push back against it. If the bedroom cools down in a marriage then temptation has a much easier time getting in. Even marriage counsellors and therapists will tell you exactly the same thing @MormonGator said. I agree with you that divorce has more to do with a lack of love than a lack of pouncing each other, but a bad sex life where there used to be a good one is one of the primary symptoms of that emotional loss.

I think that's very true but only within the context of modern western culture. I have a Caucasian, American friend who married a Vietnamese girl through an arranged marriage. Here's the story: My buddy (we'll call him Tony) had married a girl from Vietnam a few years prior. She had a cousin back home who was looking for a husband. Enter our buddy (whom we'll call Jeff), who was single and feeling lonely. Strings were pulled, phonecalls were made, one thing leads to another and pow... marriage arranged. He goes to Vietnam to meet her, at which point he also formally accepts her to become his wife and they're married. He brings her home to the U.S. where they get married again here. (There's no international agreement between the U.S. and Vietnam to honor marriages done in the other country) Now, I am pretty sure that she had some agency in all this... She could have said no, although I suspect it would have cost her personally, and her reputation and the family's reputation may have suffered... but I'm not sure. Either way, Jeff could have walked away at any time with no loss to him. A few years go by and that marriage is in a state of total collapse. I'll leave out the details but here's the thing... Other parts of the world do still practice arranged marriages and within the context of their cultures, it works. Try to cross cultural boundaries and that's where you have trouble. Here in the west in 2019 we have a radically different idea of marriage, to where any marriage that feels compelled is unthinkable. We don't even do shotgun weddings anymore. It just isn't in our cultural identity. But that doesn't invalidate the practice of arranged marriage per se, it just doesn't work in this culture.

There's a bike trail that goes most of the way around BWI airport near Baltimore. There's one section where you have to use streets/sidewalks but the vast majority of it is just trail. I rode it on my birthday a couple years back with the idea of doing it every year. Well, I haven't, but my plan is to resume this year. Oh, and it's 11 miles. AND I successfully finished it. Let's see if I can do it again this year... The only problem is that there are a couple of very hilly parts. I swallowed my pride and walked up the worst parts, but didn't give up. I did get some encouragement from other riders like "Don't worry this is the worst of it" and the like, which I appreciated. I'd love to have a friend go with me though. Even as an introvert this one was tough on my own.

I'm not an expert on bikes themselves. I think I got super lucky in the one I bought because I knew nothing about Nishiki when I got it but a co-worker, who is very knowledgeable about bikes, told me it was a good one. Find a local bike trail if you can. That's the best place to go where there won't be any auto traffic to worry about and the terrain is relatively flat. That's really critical. When I got back on the horse, as it were, that's how I went about it. If you're introverted, go alone with headphones and enjoy the zen. If you're extroverted, get a buddy to help motivate and make it more fun. Good luck!

I think the biggest problem with today's cultural patterns is that our collective "best-interest-o-meters" are badly malfunctioning and we're at a point where people equate one's best interest with their desires and feelings, to the point where people's entire identity is defined by what they want and how they feel instead of what they contribute and what they do. People feel pity for guys like Ken because he isn't giving in to his physical desires instead of admiring him for having the level of self control and wisdom to make his choices by his faith. I WISH my faith were as strong as his.

My bike is a Nishiki… 21 speed, I think. Has a speedometer on it. I got it barely used, really cheap, from a guy who had been in an accident and couldn't ride it anymore. I felt bad for him until he showed me his new Harley he bought with the money from the settlement...

You're kidding! really? /sarcasm I didn't think I needed the disclaimer. Yes, I'm aware that he's ONE example. But you know, Ken, like other people in his situation, isn't just some data point. They're each unique with their own story, their own feelings and their own reactions. That was my point. You can't take an entire collection of people living with a particular set of challenges and talk about them as if they're all experiencing the same thing in the same way. Ken is one example but he isn't unique. Lots of members of the Church with same sex attraction deal with it the way Ken does, and lots don't. Some find it easy, some find it hard. Some go back and forth a few times on their path. I didn't share his story to make a debate point. I shared it because his is a story that deserves to be told and honored.

I thought that would be Chicago...

So I'm gonna be tuning up my bike today and adjusting my bike rack to fit my car. I thought it might be useful to start a thread for discussion about general bike stuff. Trails, tips, maintenance knowledge and so on.

Like @Just_A_Guy, you had me until the end. The thing that differentiates organizations the NTSB, FAA and CDC from a single payer healthcare system is that those agencies do not directly control, regulate or provide services to individuals. The CDC is essentially a research organization with no regulatory power. The NTSB and FAA investigate and regulate at the policy and corporate level. If you want to compare apples to apples, let's look at the USPS. It does provide services directly to individual people, and it does so pretty darn well. BUT... It has competition. DHL, UPS, FedEx, etc. are all methods I could use to send you a letter or a package, and they're all privately owned companies. So for the Government to be in that arena, it has to maintain a high enough standard to be worth using it. We already see the results of a single payer system in other countries, and generally it's pretty bad compared with what we're used to. Only recently did some of those places start allowing for private healthcare providers to even exist alongside the government system, so it 'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. Why is competition the difference? Because it forces accountability. Government agencies have very little accountability. That's why the DMV/MVA historically has been known to be awful in terms of efficiency and customer service. Nobody with any power cares if it stinks, so it just keeps stinkin'. Since there's no accountability from the top, there's only one other way to get accountability: Give them some competition. In Maryland, we now have private companies that have a license from the MVA to provide most of the same services. (The only thing you can't do at a private company is get a driver's license.) Tag & Title places are everywhere and I hardly go to the MVA at all anymore except to renew my license. Funny thing: The quality of service from the MVA in my state has actually improved. On occasion I've had an unusual situation where I had to resolve it at the MVA and not only is it faster, the person I deal with is more professional than they used to be.

How about "self-righteous jerks, of which unixknight is the finest example?" Nah, no good. I don't wanna share that title. How about... "Thirdites?"

@JohnsonJones While your point is taken, the very fact that the original definition of the word 'cult' can be applied so broadly already makes the word useless. Since any religion can be argued to fit that definition, then that would make all religions a subset of cults, which also include destructive groups like NXIVM. This is why it's useful to distinguish between organizations that are clearly religions from organizations that are cults. There will still be some overlap and some gray area, but it puts the words in a more useful context.

To me as well, but I want to tell you guys about my friend. I'll call him Ken, to protect his privacy. I have known Ken for a little over twenty years. I met him when we were in the same ward together. He served a mission and has remained living in the area. We're still in the same ward now, and he's in my Dungeons & Dragons group as a regular player. Ken has been struggling in life, a lot. I think it has a lot to do with feeling lonely. He isn't working at the moment, mostly because of health problems, he's back home staying with his parents, and he doesn't have a car anymore, which means we, as his circle of friends, sometimes give him a lift places. Ken is an inspiration to me. Why? Well, because he's attracted to men, but he is incredibly philosophical about it. He isn't defined by who he is attracted to. He's defined by his goals, his hopes and his faith. He struggles mightily with that and other challenges in his life, but he comes to church as often as he can, he participates in the discussions and meetings, he has a calling, and he says some of the wisest things I've ever heard. When he first came to grips with his attractions, I'm pretty sure I was the first person in our circle of friends that he told about it, which felt like a very high honor to me. Later, and I mean years later, he opened up about it to our group. He still has hope of marrying a woman one day and having children. He wants those things because he knows the joy they bring to those who are blessed to have them in their life. My kids are friends with him too, and they love him. Whenever he comes over for D&D they're happy to see him and he gets a hug goodnight too. Just this morning he texted me about an epiphany he had while reading scripture, about how hope comes first, then faith. He quoted these verses in a discussion with someone on Facebook who felt that he should be out there indulging his sexual attractions and stop all this church stuff because the Church is to blame for every homosexual who commits suicide. Ken's view is that depression like that comes more from false hopes and expectations than from denial of sin. He finds his hope, not in the idea of the Church embracing homosexual behavior, but from the knowledge that through the Savior he can find the joy Heavenly Father wants him to have. I admire Ken, because he has a strength and a clarity of thinking that I can only be in awe of. I've told him this and he reacted with humility. Maybe I embarrassed him a little. Well, I'm not sorry that he knows how highly I think of him. Remember my story in the advice section about the fracturing of my D&D group? One of the things all the progressives in our group share is a distaste for Ken personally. They dislike him and had been pushing me to put him out of the group. To them, giving him a lift to D&D was a burden they bore for a time then stopped. To them, Ken's knowledge of the rules and willingness to correct people in-game is so off-putting that they asked to have him moved to the second group I was running at the time. Funny how only the "tolerant" people seem to take issue with these things while the rest of us just take it in stride because we want Ken with us and we value him. I have my own theory as to why they don't like him but that's a commentary for another time. And yeah, Ken and I have had disagreements before. We've had arguments. Neither of us is perfect and we're both wildly opinionated... But that's how you know a friendship is the real deal. You can have arguments with a friend and the next day they're still your friend. Yes, Ken struggles and yes, Ken is lonely... But at least he knows he's loved and valued, and he has a place in the world. So while I agree with you guys that the idea of having to live celibately sounds horrific, I take inspiration from watching the way my friend Ken tackles it.

I highly recommend checking out Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath for details on a lot of the abuses. Also check out statements by David Miscavige's father, who got out.

It has indeed, though when I'm using the term carefully (as I try to always do, because we all know what it's like to have it hurled at us.) I have no qualms about applying it to Scientology.

I've seen my Bishop do this. My wife and I have started calling it "receiving a download." It's oddly reassuring to know we aren't the only ones to have observed this phenomenon in a Bishop.

I really think that's the most insidious part... On the surface it may not be visible at all... So I suppose the best we could do, if we were faced with that situation, is to do research as much as possible. Maybe asking questions like: How long has the organization been around? What's the buy-in? Are there any former members? What do they say? Why did they leave? What are the organization's claims, and can that be shown to be true? What do they consider themselves to be? A religion? A corporation? What do they promise you? If we can dig a little deeper, maybe we can find out more, like... does the organization isolate its members from their friends and family? Does it have secrets at higher levels? How much power do the leaders have over the individual lives of members?

All true. If you call the Bishop, the first thought in his head won't be "I better figure out how hard to punish this bunch of liars." It's going to be "How can I help this couple get past this?"

Smart, well put together people can be drawn into cults too. It just takes different tactics. An analysis of that reveals the difference between a cult and a religion. 1. Offer them something that seems beneficial on the surface that would appeal to their intellect. Are you smart enough to take advantage of this self-help program? Want to get an edge over your competitors? Want to make the most of your personal resources and attain all of your life and career goals? (It's a smokescreen, of course. This is just the bait.) 2. Get someone with a lot of charisma and useful advice to run it. Make him/her out to be someone who genuinely wants to see their members/students/customers/employees improve themselves. Testimonials help a lot here too. Even take an approach in which adherents note genuine improvements in their lives. It can be anything from an increased sense of self-confidence, spirituality, whatever. (This is the feeling that's meant to solidify the positive value of membership as well as embed a feeling of credibility into the organization.) 3. Start plugging into the membership and start to pump resources from them. At first, make it seem like simple participation. Call it dues/tithes/fees/donations/whatever. A reasonable contribution of time/money/expertise/whatever as a way to be a part of making the movement grow, expand and reach more people who need it. (The subject, feeling a sense of gratitude, will naturally want to do this.) In return, make them feel important, valued. Recognize them and make them feel like their efforts are meaningful and that those in charge see it. 4. Now that the subject is invested, start asking more of them. The organization has generated lots of credibility, the subjects are emotionally and financially invested, and now you can start really digging in. They trust the organization and its leader, and that rust can go a really long way, especially if there are others in the organization who can be reassuring. (Don't think of it as collateral, dear. It's a symbol of the trust you're placing in the group. It's a nude photo of you, which in this day and age isn't really a big deal, and they don't show it to anyone. Your willingness to take that leap of faith proves you're ready for the next level!) And a cunning leadership in such an organization knows exactly how to organize itself in such a way as to maximize what it can get out of members at all levels. See the pattern? It's all manipulation. So the difference between a cult and a religion? Simple. A cult exists to serve the benefit of itself and its leaders at the expense of its members, it may or may not have a spiritual component. A religion seeks to serve the benefit of its members, and is spiritual in nature.

It makes sense, but has terrifying implications re: warfare.

I didn't get it either, but then I also fell for the D&C one so I'm just gonna slink off...