Connie
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Posts posted by Connie
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Hey, fent, thanks for letting me debate some of these ideas with you. I have learned a lot. I apologize if you felt any undue friction. I, myself, have felt very little friction and had many very friendly feelings toward you. :)
The technology today is so much greater than at any other time in history. This is an obvious statement, i know, but because the technology is more advanced, there is greater capacity for evil (as well as for good). The power to enslave and kill is so much greater. This is a big part of the reason i believe we are in the most wicked age of the world. It really is just a matter of time. And as things grow and spread at a capacity far greater than at any other time due to the technology, perhaps in time you will concede, too, that this indeed is the worst it has ever been.
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My favorite book on simplification is Simplify: A Guide to Caring for the Soul by Carolyn J. Rasmus. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in simplifying their life.
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I have four children. We live in a small home with just 2 bedrooms. I have 2 girls and 2 boys, they are all young, the oldest 7 and the youngest 1. I think that living in this close space has strengthened us as a family. It can be difficult at times, but i often think of Joseph Smith growing up and how he and all his siblings (which was much more than 4) slept in the same room and how close they were as a family. Just know that it is possible but it does take some sacrifice and selflessness--give and take.
I hope all goes well with your 4th delivery!
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I'll vote for you, too, Misshalfway! Excellent post!
fent: i'm super glad you can maintain those ideas that i have not disputed. Yes, sin can thrive just fine under the surface and even grow to a certain extent. In fact, it has to get to a certain strength before it can come above the surface. Again, my point is that once above the surface it grows and spreads and gets even stronger.
I don't see my example as a special case at all. This is what happens when a sin is institutionalized by both culture and government. There are many cases of this throughout history, such as slavery as seen in any civilization. In fact, the slavery of the African people that we are most familiar with is a really good example when you look at how it spread from Portugal and Spain to England and thence to North and South America. Perhaps the only thing special in my example is that the Jews were eradicated instead of enslaved, but even that is not uncommon.
"By small and simple things are great things brought to pass." And it works both ways--for both good and evil. I realize this is a Book of Mormon reference, but it is hard to keep myself from LDS theology as it's a big part of who i am.
Saying that sin has "always been there" makes light of it, in my opinion. For what our attitude toward sin SHOULD be, please see Misshalfway's post.
There is so much good in the world. "For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things" (see 2 Nephi 2, yes another Book of Mormon reference). It's important we are presented the choice. It's too bad our culture has come to focus so heavily on the negative and to flaunt it so widely and openly. That sometimes makes it hard to see the good and positive, but it is out there if we are determined to find it. :)
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Thank you Tamra. That example is even more powerful when you examine what types of shows were running in the 1950s as compared to now.
When a sin is brought "above the surface," it becomes more socially accepted. Therefore, fewer people view it as sin (even though God continues to view it as such). Therefore, it grows and spreads.
Here is an example that i think all my non-LDS friends can understand (hopefully): You have Germany in the early 1900s. Okay. In Germany, there was much anti-Jew thought. It was "below the surface" to use fent's phrase. Just a general hatred of Jews. When Hitler brought it "above the surface" did it just continue at the same level it was prior? No! It grew and spread until there were how many millions of Jews dead!?
I could be wrong on this, but i think that statistics take into account things like population growth. We all know crime rates and divorce rates are much higher now than in the 1950s, not that they were ideal then either. But hopefully you see my point. I believe the divorce rate in the 1950s was 1 in 5 and now it's more than half. I don't see that population growth has anything to do with that, but divorce is more socially accepted and, therefore, anyone can divorce anyone for any little reason.
I do believe that there is more wickedness in the world today. But i also believe there is a great amount of good. I do not believe a righteous people is one in which sin is ignored. What would have happened had we ignored Hitler?
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If you don't care, why post your opinion as a reply to mine? You don't need to do that to state them. You directed your comments to me, so I felt that I was expect to respond.
I'm sorry you have chosen to take offense. I really and truly did not direct my comments to you. I simply quoted your words to show the opposite perspective and make sure people understood where my thoughts were coming from.
I don't know what else to say other than the truth of what i was really thinking as i made my post. I feel i've done that to the best of my ability. If you still choose to take offense, then that is your choice and there is nothing i can do for that.
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Well it stands to reason that your "kingdoms" are growing as the world's population has been steadily increasing for all of recorded history, with a few exceptions (ie the Black Death)
As I don't believe the claims of your church, including the alleged authenticity of the Book of Moses and its story of the city of Enoch, this example is meaningless to me.
That's nice. I don't care what you believe. I was simply stating my opinion to give others a different perspective. I meant no insult to you personally.
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I don't think this age is any more "wicked" than any other... people are people. When you see widespread "sinful" activity, it's just because it's more visible. We have TV, movies, magazines, etc. It's easier to find, that's all. Whenever you have an age like the Victorian era or the 1950s or something like that, all the wickedness is there... it just occurs below the surface. People just don't talk about it, but they still do it.
Provo (which is very LDS-concentrated) has at least four escort agencies... all those for such a small town. I bet you didn't know that, or even want to know. "Righteous" societies are the ones where people turn their faces far enough away from what is going on around them to pretend it isn't there.
At the same time there are many people around the world helping each other out, doing wonderful things. Feeding, clothing, and sheltering the needy, saving lives, giving up their time to uplift others. It has always been this way as well... and it's covered in the same mass media that tells the other stories.
I disagree. I think this age is much more wicked than previously. The kingdom of Satan is growing. It's the last days, we've been told that it will get worse. But the kingdom of God is also growing. The good and the bad have to grow together.
I also disagree that righteous societies are where people ignore sin. The best example of a righteous society i know of is the city of Enoch, and they rooted out the wickedness until they were taken to heaven.
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The fundamental doctrine of the church to me is "Follow the prophet."
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Women can be guilty of this, too. My husband is much better at this than i am, but i am one of those weird women who don't really care about flowers--they just wind up dead in a few days anyway. But my husband knows what i respond to.
Thanks for the reminder. I think it's time for me to read The Five Love Languages again. :)
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I don't believe there is such a thing as gender-specific sin. Sin is sin no matter what gender you are. Women sin just as much as men, in any situation.
I'm glad you've decided to take this step. Whether he comes to think less of you is not the point. The point is what God thinks of you, and I think he will be happy you have decided to repent. Isn't that what he asks us to do? "Come unto me," "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow" (hope i got that quote right). Don't be afraid of the "arm of flesh" and what they think of you. Only be worried about what God thinks of you. That's my advise, for what it's worth. :)
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I, too, miss my old ward. They accepted everyone with open arms. I now live in a small town where everyone is related to everyone, except us, and i feel like an outsider quite often. What keeps me going? Habit, as others have stated, going to church on Sunday is just what i do. I refuse to let other peoples behavior get to me and tear me away from what i know to be true. And i am desperately needed on the piano. I can't abandon my cute little primary kids, even though this is my third time as primary accompanist (snore) and i'd rather be on the organ.
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I always here "fer" instead of "for" here in Utah too. It makes me giggle. "We're thankful fer" what a great phrase! Of course, i'm a native Utahn so i slip up sometimes too.
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I, too, am sorry for my harsh words. I did not say them in the spirit of charity as i ought. It's obvious that I have a lot to learn, too.
Congratulations on going to the temple! I hope your experience is as wonderful as mine was and that you go back often and keep learning and growing in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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It has never bothered me that women do not have the priesthood. The priesthood is a heavy responsibility. What with motherhood and womanhood, i have enough responsibility without adding more. I am thankful the men are the ones to take that responsibility so i don't have to carry it, and i still get the full blessings of it by being a member of the church! I respect and love true manhood and the men who righteously hold the priesthood. I do not think men are more prone to sin than women. The "natural woman" is sometimes much more scary than the "natural man." Look at some of the women in politics. Truly scary!
No, Joseph was not perfect, nor am i, nor is anyone. The gospel, however, is perfect, as was Jesus Christ who taught it.
Polygamy, when sanctioned by God, is not a sin. There are many instances of polygamy in the scriptures as well as church history. Are there any instances of God-sanctioned homosexual marriage? No, of course not. Homosexuality is a sin.
Sorry, couldn't keep quiet on this one. Your logic is very, very skewed. You clearly have much to learn. Perhaps reading Numbers 12 might help?
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I think so. I read a book called Religions of the World: A Latter-day Saint View by Spencer J. Palmer and Roger R. Keller. It took a look at all the religions of the world from an LDS perspective. Boy, that was redundant! Anyway, i really liked it. :)
You can find it at ldscatalog.com. It looks like they have a revised and enlarged version from the one i have for $19.50.
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Yes, Bytor is right. It is sadly not in our current Hymn book but is in some of the older ones. One of my all time favorites!
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I can totally relate. Those last two months have always been the hardest for me and then once that baby is out i'm ready to go to DisneyLand--i feel so great!
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I don't know why, but this thread made me think of a talk from the February 2007 Ensign entitled "My Ways Are Not Your Ways." It does not address this particular issue, but i thought it was really good. Maybe it was just the title.
Here's the link if you want to read it. LDS.org - Ensign Article - “My Ways Are Not Your Waysâ€
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i notice that True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference has not been mentioned. It takes issues alphabetically by topic. You can find it at ldscatalog.com or maybe the missionaries can get a copy for you. It's only $2.00 with free shipping.
This is what the website says about it:
This book is designed as a companion to studying the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets. It contains brief, simple statements on gospel doctrines and principles, arranged alphabetically. It is particularly helpful for youth, young adults, and new converts.
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The only remarkable thing i found in this encounter was that he stated your "problem" was that you never served an LDS mission. Does he think return missionaries are infallible? Don't get me wrong, i have a great admiration for return missionaries. I'm married to one! But return missionaries can fall away just like anybody.
I also find it remarkable that you did not consider yourself a Christian when you were LDS. I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since i was baptized at the age of 8, and i am a Christian.
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I feel so bad for this girl. I did, in fact, say the exact same thing utcowboy said when i heard about the story.
I am, however, always hesitant to say it's okay for government to take away freedoms. What if, because of a handful of these idiotic people, they say everyone needs a court-approved name when naming their child and you can only use names from Star Wars? I'm not sure i could handle having a son named Yoda. :)
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Thanks for sharing. Exercise is very therapeutic. While i personally have never like running, i feel the same about the forms of exercise i enjoy. :)
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I find myself surprised by this thread. As a wife myself, i would absolutely want to know. I do, however, have a very strong relationship with my husband. We believe in communication. I think i very nearly do tell him every stray thought that enters my head.
If, however, you believe your wife has issues with forgiveness, as many people do, then i think what many others have said here is probably the best thing in your situation, namely, go to your bishop or a counselor first and talk it out with them.
Also, divorce affects not only small children but children who are grown and moved out even, so don't think that waiting until they are grown and gone will have no affect on them.
Justice vs. Mercy
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
My understanding is that it's not mercy that makes justice "take a backseat," it's the atonement. As in Alma 42:15, it's the atonement that "appeases the demands of justice" and "brings to pass the plan of mercy." Christ suffered for our sins, thus satisfying justice which says "someone has to pay" and bringing about mercy if we accept his sacrifice. But as in Alma 12:33-34, we have "claim on mercy" only through accepting Christ's atonement--repenting and following Christ. Alma 42:23, "mercy cometh BECAUSE of the atonement." Therefore, if we don't accept the atonement, then we get the full demands of justice.