brother01

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Everything posted by brother01

  1. That's an easy one!:-) Jesus said a man will reap what he sows.
  2. So we clearlly find use for the principle of 'so far as it is translated correctly'! In looking at the specific word translated here I offer the following blue letter bible link: Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon From the use of the word I think the NKJV more correct than the KJV, but that doen't make me right, just that I think I'm right:-) Taking the principle beyond the one verse, based on the principle Jesus gave of believing what Moses said, that brings us to the foot of the mountain when God gave the ten commandments to Moses. Did God say He alone was God? Did God ever say that when Israel offered sacrifices to demons that the demons were also Gods? If Jesus was saying 'God only' VS 'only God', what is your view of the implications for us and the Trinity doctrine?
  3. Seems that I clearly recall Joseph at one time after the 'sell the copyright in Canada' prophecy saying that some revelations are of the devil, some are of God and some come from ones self. Have you ever read the "Navoo Expositor"? Your post sounds more like a story than fact, but then it isn't your story, but the account of others. I didn't think there was anyone who doubted that Joseph Smith Jr. taught polygamy as a new doctrine and revelation.....
  4. According to Jesus, He is the way, truth and light. Jesus revealed Himself, we can all read the testimony of Jesus Christ in the Bible. It was the Holy Scriptures that foretold Him and it is the Holy Scriptures that reveal Him as well, but it is the Holy Spirit by which God allows us to see Jesus for Who He is and understand Him and His teachings. Jesus never taught the disciples to expect direct revelation, but that the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember what He had taught them. The Holy Spirit enlightens the words of Jesus Christ, but Jesus also spoke plainly on many things to reveal the true doctrine of God. As such, and according to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Holy Scriptures, the matter is to keep to what He said and do it because you believe He is who He said He is, that if He is your Lord, you will do what He said. "Blessed is he who hears and does" is the message of Jesus. So the message of Jesus Christ is not to worry about whether Joseph saw Jesus and the Father, but if Jesus spoke the truth of God and if He told the truth when He said that both His words and the word of God in the Holy Scriptures is imperishable by any means. If Jesus spoke truth, then the matter is to come to know what He taught, not in seeking to add to or take away from what He taught. Do you do what Jesus said? Do you keep the over 200 teachings of Jesus? Check it out! One Disciple to Another
  5. From John 5 we find this quote from Jesus: What did Jesus mean by 'only God'?
  6. The issue of whether God has a physical body is perhaps small in comparison to the view of how LDS see their relationship to God and Jesus Christ. Christians I know believe that Jesus is the Creator, not of the created - a mere elder brother of mankind as Satan is. So to ponder over reasons to believe God has a physical or Spiritual body is a relatively mute matter to discuss. Either God is the only God ever or God was a man who became God as you think you also can become is the greater issue in my mind.
  7. Guess I'm not a social trinitarian:-) The way it seems to me is that we are made up of body, mind and spirit, but I'm just one person. So why can't God be made up of Father, Word and Spirit, as One God, yet the aspects of each are of the One and are One even though one part may abide in an area or demension beyond where the central Father resides.
  8. Thanks, but from my comments there was no intent for asking about what Catholics believe. I thought the other poster had a specific link to a discussion for someone by the 'name' of 'catholic' to converse with here on the trinity topic:-) Two things I marvel at: 1. How Orthodox complain about LDS and the Trinity doctrine, but not Church of Christ. 2. How LDS even entertain that God is not the only God who ever was, is and will ever be - the source of all that is, both seen and unseen. (not just of this world or solar system or galaxy or universe) There are perhaps millions and billions of angels (els), but only one God. The angels and demons both witness this is true, let alone the Son of God and the holy prophets of God.
  9. So why the Catholic comment? I've been to an RCC and had several deep conversations with them over the years. I respect the knowledge of some basics of the doctrine of Jesus Christ, but there are some big issues with RCC history and even bigger issues with doctrines that have been added that are not the doctrine Jesus gave from the Father such as their veneration of Mary, and switching certain things out from paganism and calling them Christian. Jesus wrote to the Church at Pergamos as a compromising Church and spoke about their idolatry and immorality. Most things in the Revelation of Jesus Christ are signified and I take that in such a way that those who add to or take away from what God has declared to be both immoral and practicing idolatry. Their having some statues is a minor issue in comparison to having slurred the very doctrine of Jesus Christ that God gave Him charge to speak and preach and reveal. So how many Churches are guilty of not repenting and turning to God with their whole heart and seeking to observe whatsoever Jesus taught during the first century? Just an added bonus thought, but do we really have the concept of prophecy that the Jewish mind of the old times had? Their concept was that it not only had to be true and according to what God had already given, but that it also had to fit the patterns given... like Abraham and Isaac and the sacrifice to God and Jesus on the cross or the ancient betrothal period and marriage feast to the Church being the bride of Christ that He will return suddenly for and she is to be ready for His coming.. The patterns abound, and these are but two. You might want to see if the added revelations of LDS fit the patterns given by God.
  10. My creed? Observe everything that Jesus taught. If He is my Lord I will to do whatsoever He said and grow in my knowledge and faithfulness to those things.
  11. 1) Are the persons of the Trinity capable of expressing emotion to each other? (ie can they love each other) What does the trinity doctrine have to do with being a disciple of Jesus or faithful to Him or obedience to what He commanded? If God is One, why do some try to take a spiritual scalpel and dissect God somehow? Jesus said those who had seen Him had seen the Father. Jesus said His Father was greater than Him. Jesus said as we abide in Him and His word that we are one with Him as He is one with the Father...didn't He? (John 17) Jesus said that it was better for us that we have the presence of the Holy Spirit in us than it was for Him to be bodily with us on earth. Yet the Spirit is spoken of as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ and many other things. Why do some feel the need to define things instead of just abide in them? Jesus said we have to will to do whatsoever He said, and excuse me, but Jesus didn't say 'believe the trinity doctrine or go to hell', but rather, 'Ye believe in God, believe also in Me." 2) Are they capable of communicating with each other? This sounds like a non question to me. What's the point? 3) Can they be in differing spatial locations? (ie differing places, the Father was not crucified with the Son) Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for those who are His and to be our High Priest, the Spirit is our Comforter and surity of God's ownership and presence. Jesus also said whereever two or more are gathered in His name that He is there with them. Seems that would be in Spirit. 4) Will Jesus maintain his resurrected body in heaven? The revelation of Jesus Christ shows Him quite different than on the cross; more like what He was at the transfiguration event/vision. 5) Is holding to the historic creeds… Can any historic creed compare to the pure teachings of Jesus? None that I've seen:-) a. essential for salvation b. good for spiritual health but not an absolute requirement c. not important d. other…Please specify "D" Jesus said we will be judged by His words, the very doctrine of God He taught, as well as the truth of God taught in the Holy Scriptures. Jesus said these things were both imperrishable, so they need not restoration, but to know what has been revealed and forgotten - but certainly not 'lost' to need to be 'restored'. One Disciple to Another
  12. Hey Justice-- I did see your post and your appeal to authority--the authority of the Book of Mormon (Alma 42 to be specific). For me, nothing in that book is authoritative. Yes, I understand it's premise--that if I have a "sincere heart," "real intent," and "faith in Christ"--its truthfulness will be made manifest. And yes, I understand the logic of LDS--that if anyone has read the book, prayed, and didn't get such affirmation--then by definition they lacked the sincerity, real intent, etc., and they need to try again and keep trying until they get the "right answer." Been there, done that, and yes--I even got a T-shirt out of the deal (printed up for a service project). But by God's grace I got out of that loop a few years back. So your admonition that I pray some more about the BoM and specifically Alma 42--it falls a bit flat with me. I trust you'll understand why I didn't initially respond to your post. Hopefully you didn't invest too much time on it. --Erik John 7:16,17; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Mt 23:8-12; "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren." John 15:9,10; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you, abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." Jesus taught that if we will to do His will, that by doing what He said, that it is then that we receive testimony that God is true, and that Jesus is who He said He is, and that if we believe, obey and abide in Him and His word because He is Lord and Messiah and the Son of God. Jesus never said this is gained by saying a prayer; it is not to 'say this prayer after me and be saved' any more than it is to pray for a testimony of a particular book. It is about the witness of God that gives glory to the Son. It's about believing the Faithful Witness and doing the will of God. It is the faith of Jesus and the testimony of Jesus and the commandments of God.
  13. I was raised Church of Christ, my dad was a preacher sent to do mission work in Utah when I was 4, so I have some knowledge of the LDS from an early age, but didn't get into study of the LDS faith until I married a Mormon lady. At first I was put off because I asked questions. Then the anti-LDS had an open door because they were more than willing to 'talk' about LDS and give their views. After years of study was wasted on historical accounts I discovered the teachings of Jesus Christ. Once I discovered that no one is taking His teachings as seriously as He said they should be, well, I don't belong to any organized 'church' fellowship. I feel uncomfortable most everywhere - some more than others. As one who investigated every major fellowship from Catholic to Pentecostal and LDS to SDA, my faith view is broadened extensively, but the truth is that I've discovered no one takes Jesus seriously. I almost checked the "nondenominational", but that does not fit. Most "nondenominational" are generalists who have separated from one or another Baptist of other basic fellowship and are more about 'feel good faith' than they are about growing in Christ in faith, word and deed. So I checked 'other.' It isn't that I'm not a Christian, it's that I don't want to marginalize my faith. It has cost too much to not put a high value on it.
  14. Why not talk to the wife and try to do a joint call to Dr. Laura?
  15. We inherited the mortal penalty for Adam's sin, in that we all die. The gospel is the fulfillment of the promise that we will live again if we repent of our sin and turn to do the will of God instead of our own. I disagree that Adam eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil not being a sin. The Genesis account is power packed with information when you know the rest of the Scriptures. Don't we all agree that sin is disobedience of the word of God? When God tells us to do something we are to do it. When He says something we are to believe it, not doubt that He is telling us the truth. God has always and will always be true to His word. As is told us, He upholds His word higher than His name! In Genesis 2 we are told that God put Adam and Eve in the garden to tend and keep it. So God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. They were told that a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. God told them not to eat of the one tree because if they did they would surely die. God walked with Adam in the cool of the evening. This may have been a daily occurrence that God would talk to Adam about the questions he had about tending the garden or whatever. God and man were in direct communication. So if God told Adam not to do something and told him what would happen if he did, then this is sufficient knowledge. It was pride that got them, the desire to be something we aren't or to have something that God has not given us. Adam had complete authority from God to conquer and subdue the earth, but they were led to believe they too could become like God, knowing good and evil. Before that day they only knew good. Do we also desire to know evil or to know good? Satan told Eve 'thou shalt not surely die', which was not true. To this day, over 5000 years later, we all still die. God is forever true. We only have the promise of eternal life if we have Christ in us, the hope of glory.
  16. Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. And you think it is to eat a fruit off the tree of eternal life to be sufficient for not only the person who ate it, but to all their posterity??? Not me:-)
  17. The book of Mormon in a number of places, especially in the first edition, contains a number of verses that are very supportive of the Trinity doctrine as understood by the authors of the Bible. I wonder at how LDS don't see those verses and in times past have even gone after some of the teachings of past LDS Prophets, such as the Adam/God doctrine. I was just looking at posts over at FAIR and noted one is still trying to explain that doctrine as true, even though LDS Prophets since Brigham Young have refuted it as false doctrine. How do we explain the names in Genesis 5 that says: "Man is appointed mortal sorrow. God came down teaching. His death shall bring the despairing comfort, rest." How did God come down teaching except that Jesus is God? What do you think John was saying in I John 4:12; "No man has seen God at any itme."?
  18. Similar dream, but different. The tree was inside, as the river. Outside was darkness and those who would depart from the tree and those who fellowshipped in its fruit.
  19. "Great and spacious building"? Where is that found? I had a profound dream about that some years back. People in the building were in many rooms. Some had godly joy, some had nothing going on but a party with their own little group and some had left the building and wandered off to the darkness outside and were lost in the dark swamp mud that exuded their blood when it had consumed them... Pretty creepy dream.... I'd forgotten it till just now.
  20. While making the Bible accounts I realized some things that were surprising - to me anyway. First and foremost is that of the actual teachings of Jesus, that they didn't match what I'd been told they were. Little things like how many commandments did He give? Then was the realization of how many directions He gave by way of precept, and especially noted was what He said about what He was teaching. I think that was the most enlightening to me. Jesus never said you have to have the right interpretation of what He said, but that not everyone who says they believe actually believes and does what He said to do/believe. Jesus said the Father said that those who keep His words will have both the Father and the Son with them. Jesus said we know Him by doing what He said. Jesus said works matter. So looking at the two controversies of LDS and Evangelical, the study gave me new insight. On one hand are those who say that if you keep commandments that you have fallen from grace...which is not true if you base your faith on what Jesus taught from God, His Father. On the other hand it seems LDS believe they have to 'follow the prophet' to know what God wants of them in their lives. I'm sure prophets have their place, but all of us are - according to Jesus - brethren, and He alone is to be our Teacher. Not that I'm against teachers or preachers or prophets, but I believe if they have something to say that is needful they need to first base their foundation of what they say right onto the truthfulness of Jesus Christ as the Faithful Witness of God. Those not of God cannot hear and do what He said...they may fake it, they may fool some, but they mostly fool themselves by lack of study of what Jesus taught. There have been generations that couldn't know the Bible during the Dark Ages, but we have no excuse today - not in the USA anyway. God will hold each of us accountable. Are the teachings of the LDS Prophets totally compatible with the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible? "Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you" "I have given them Your words" Jesus taught about keeping those words He said before returning to the Father. Care to do the BOM accounting to compare with the Bible? I'd be glad to consider posting it on my web site. I believe the matter is actually necessary to record and examine if they truely are His words and if not, then even more so to show the differences. Either way it is a win win for those who seek to do what Jesus said! One Disciple to Another John 15:9,10; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you, abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in in His love." Luke 21:33; "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." I've heard plenty of preachers say we have to love like Jesus did, but none who said this cannot be done apart from keeping His commandments as He kept the Fathers' commandments. Sure, grace, mercy and honesty are important, but most important is what God has said.... Jesus also equated doing what He said, and that in so doing this would set one free - that we don't experience His freedom and peace apart from doing what He commanded. Ever hear an evangelical preach that? Ever hear a fast and testimony talk about that? I haven't - at least not yet.
  21. Can't agree more:-) Which brings to mind a call put out some time ago to do a listing of the teachings of Jesus in the BOM and compare them with those found in the Bible - not even close. Perhaps I could also do an accounting of the teachings accredited to Jesus in D&C and BOC and see how they fair?
  22. Let's never forget that what Peter said is the very promise of God till Jesus comes again at the end of the age... at least till then.... The restoration of the doctrine about baptism is not a new thing. It is a battleground that has been contended for throughout the generations since Peter first gave those words by revelation of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Peter directly answered the question posed by those who had come to know who Jesus was, the Messiah, and that they had killed Him. They believed after He resurrected and was known about town until His return to the Father. The issue of how others think baptism is not necessary baffles me. Jesus commanded baptism of disciples. The Holy Spirit declared it as well, as did all the apostles. Sure, it isn't just being dunked in water, it must be mixed with faith and the truth of the pophetic word made sure. The Holy Spirit is not merely the Comforter, but the Spirit of truth. How can one have the Spirit of Truth and not acknowledge what the Spirit reveals to be the truth????? How can they read the teachings of Jesus Christ = the very doctrine of God to all men, and then come away from those things and not realize it is about repenting and doing good. What we do and believe = our works. In light of His teachings, it seems many are in denial to the point of rejecting the very words of God that Jesus gave us all. One Disciple to Another John 7:16,17; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 8: 31,32; "Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." If we don't desire to do those things then our faith is in nothing but what we imagine, and God has never spoken well of anyone who follows his own heart or imaginations - let alone doctrines of demons.
  23. In the OT certain elements of religious rite were performed by a certain priesthood. God didn't work miracles to make those not of that linage of priesthood to become one authorized. You were either born into those charged with that duty or you were not. That was the old, and Jesus came to fulfill those things that He might make one man of the two. Per Jesus' teachings one cannot know that He is the Son of God except God Himself reveals that to the person. Also, when that has been revealed and the person acts in faith to that witness of God, then it is also God who gives the Spirit at baptism...Acts 2:38,39. It was the exception of baptism and not being aware or baptism of John, that the apostles gave the gift of the Holy Spirit. In no case where people heard the gospel message in wholeness do we find that the Holy Spirit was granted by the laying on of hands. I've talked to a number of LDS who witness this as true because they said they definately felt the presence of the Spirit immediately at baptism, not when they later had hands lain on them to receive the Spirit by the authority of those laying hands on them as received authority by the doctrine of Joseph Smith Jr. Jesus clearly said, "Those that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved, he who do not believe will be condemned." This puts the difference clearly on belief or unbelief, not being baptized by one in authority versus not being baptized by one with authority. Since Jesus clearly, in the great commission, said to make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all things He have commanded and to baptize the disciples they made - further clarified by the immediate teaching upon the day of Penticost as directed by their being filled with the Holy Spirit. We are not His disciples except we seek to do His will and keep His word. Also note in the great commission that the disciples were to teach what Jesus taught them - not what Jesus was going to teach them through later direct teaching as though He forgot to tell them other things:-)
  24. Perhaps another view of the 'white stone' is the reported custom that if you paid your taxes and were a good citizen, you were given a white stone with your name on it and it granted you access to see the games and free food.