guitarwizard

Really, I just want to get all sides of the argument from all different sorts of members of the church. My opinion is that I was a recipient of the scholarship before it was lottery funded. So, even without the new state lottery, i would still be receiving the money. I also don't see the exchanging of hands from dumb citizen->subcontracted lottery company->state government->department of higher ed->me as constituting me taking part in the lottery. Another part of this is that I want to see different arguments to maybe understand what others would do in this situation. It does seem to play part in a large ethical dilemma, which is obvious by the varied responses garnered in the thread.

unless of course, the money is considered "dirty money" by the church, in which case, I have just dirtied up the Lord's Church. I definitely wasn't trying to brag I just wanted to point out that people DO pay tithing on scholarships, and some of that money DOES come from state lottery funds. So, is that paying tithing with gambling money?

This semester, my scholarships paid for my full tuition plus 2500 extra for living expenses, such as apartment and food. I considered that increase and tithed on it.

i think that becomes the question, essentially. Can you pay tithing on a scholarship that is partially funded by a state lottery? On one hand, it is a lottery. On the other, you are not participating in the lottery, only receiving a scholarship from your state.

What are the ethical implications of accepting a scholarship that is partially funded by a state lottery? This question comes from my fiance and myself. I have accepted the scholarship, as before it was funded by the lottery, i was a recipient. It went from being $2500 a year to $5000. She has the opportunity to accept it for $5000 a semester, but is adamantly opposed. From the site: The Academic Challenge Program provides educational assistance to Arkansas residents in pursuit of a higher education. Additional funding made possible by the Arkansas Scholarship Lottery has allowed the expansion of the Arkansas Academic Challenge Scholarship to provide higher education opportunities to previously underserved Arkansans (both traditional & nontraditional students). The goal of the scholarship is to provide significant financial aid to those who qualify. So, what are your thoughts on the ethics of accepting a scholarship of this type. I've always heard that money received from gambling can't pay tithing, would that be the case in this situation?

I'm thinking it is a little more complex than that. From a completely historical standpoint, not faith based at all (though I do consider myself a devout LDS): 1. both groups claim to be the restoration of an older tradition, which tradition in itself claims to be a continuation of Judaism. 2. both traditions faced a tremendous amount of persecution in their early years 3. both traditions have a past that includes racist exclusion. 4. Both groups have shifted the emphasis of practice from "fringe beliefs" to beliefs that could fit in more readily with society. and others.

I've been contemplating doing some research on the NOI in comparison to the Church. Do any of you have any opinions of similarities or major differences between the two? This will probably end up being my senior thesis, trying to discover what the groups have to say about how religion functions in america.

There is a question and answer session after the film. But you guys are right, thanks for setting me straight. This is definitely something I need to just avoid.

I feel like I should be there to correct any misrepresentations of the Church, especially in a region in which there are so few members already.

The documentary, In the Shadow of the Temple, is coming to my town this week. For those who are unaware of the doc, it is about Shadow Mormons and ex-mormons and the difficulties they experience in leaving the church. I'm just curious of your opinions on the doc if you've seen it. I would like to know some opinions that others hold as I go into it, so I should know what to be watching for. Thanks!

ok, i am looking for Leonard J. Arrington's "Adventures of a Church Historian." Does anyone have a copy they are willing to sell or know where i can get a copy for under $50. I am dying to get my hands on this one.

I am looking for great in depth unbiased books on church history. I have read Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman and absolutely loved it. It addressed the nasty things that usually are kept quiet, but did it in a respecting manner that i loved. It was a great book and has really helped strengthen my faith. I am about to read Brigham Young: American Moses and was curious as to what other books are good reads like the others? Is there a book solely on John Taylor, or did the fascination with the lives of the prophets stop after Brigham? Background: I am a religious studies major at a public university and my goal is to be able to teach church history at some school ( longshot right?!). I tend to use my knowledge of church history in my classes and always am looking to expand my knowledge. I just wrote a paper for my Islam class comparing Islam to the Church from the origins to succession issues.

Jesus the Christ by Talmage Mormon Doctrine by McConkie Our Heritage Miracle of Forgiveness

Well, all the audio i could think of was this.

It's ok Tytto. I don't think anyone has gotten upset because they are scared of the doctrine or anything. It is just something that we, as believing members, keep hearing over and over and over again. It is truth, and I am sorry that you don't "want to learn to believe it," but that doesn't make it not true. I don't want to learn to believe that i need to go to my Organic Chemistry class, but i do. But, no one can make you believe something that you are not ready to hear. And it really is a shame the missionaries didn't clearly answer you, but it is a hard doctrine. The prophet Joseph even said when it was discussed in the King Follett Sermon that it would be a hard doctrine. Just drum up and remember that testimony of Joseph Smith that you must have had to be baptized. No one is taking glory away from God. He is still the Highest, Most Supreme Being and us advancing towards "godhood" does nothing but give Him more glory. No one will surpass our Heavenly Father. But again, you can't force belief.

I am bad about reading whole threads once they have gotten this long. I fear becoming a parent simply because of the tags in this thread "daughter, boyfriend, sleepover." But, it helps me remember that we all have a common Heavenly Father, and he has given us the opportunity to mess up. He knows when we will, and however much he would love to help us, he can't force us to do anything. Let her know the path she is going down, and let her know that she will be held accountable for the things she does, not only to herself, but her boyfriend and the pain she causes her family. We all have agency, and no one can take this away from us. We are here to exercise it. Remind her that the path is straight and narrow, and it is very easy to get lost. If she has already lost her way, turn on your brights and let her see the path again. Walking my puppy really made me think about this. We are all on a leash. We sometimes stop and we are nudged along, but sometimes we won't go on. Sometimes we see something on the side of the road, so all we really want to do is go over there and be curious. The person holding the leash will gently nudge us where we should be, but never forcefully, because we will gain hard feelings toward Him. I don't know if anyone is able to glean what little bit of wisdom was in that, but, it means a bit to me. Just nudge her along. Don't be forceful. Don't hurt her, but let her know that she is hurting you, and there are consequences, even if not in this life.

Welcome Anne! This is the place to be!

Welcome to the site...and happy thanksgiving, lol

This is really more of a problem with denying the plan of salvation than becoming like a god. How could Adam and Eve have multiplied and replenished the earth if they never partook of the fruit? The three pillars of eternity are the creation, the fall, and the atonement. We know that Jesus Christ was chosen as The Savior prior to the creation. If there was no fall, there would be no need for Christ. The fall was part of gods plan, from the beginning. It has even been put forth that God wanted Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit, but it had to be by their own decision. He couldn't tell them to eat the fruit, because if he did, he would be responsible for their fallen state. By giving them agency and making the consequences known to them, he was able to sit back and let His plan be brought into fruition. If you go a step farther and look at some apocryphal documents, the story of Adam and Eve gets even deeper. In the Armenian Apocrypha of Adam and Eve, Satan tells Adam and Eve that "God was a man like you. when he ate of the fruit of this tree he became god of all. because of that god said to you not to eat, lest you become an equal god, like himself." This is not really that big of a deal. It seems that God wanted man to partake of the fruit, why else would He provide Jesus Christ as a savior?

I also would like to give thanks. This time last year I was considered a recent convert. I am very glad to be passed that one year mark, and am so much more grateful for the gospel in my life. I am a primary teacher these days, and last week we did an activity where we went through the alphabet saying things we are grateful for. It was truly a humbling activity for us older kids in primary, and i advise you to take a second and do so yourself.

That is exactly what I was going to say. You should listen/read to Truman G. Madsen's Presidents of the Church lecture series, mainly the end of the Joseph Smith and the entirety of the Brigham Young. Br. Madsen uses very good sources, and some of his stories truly gave me chills.

This thread is another Biblical point against theosis. We are all pretty strong in our faith, and I hate to speak for others, but I personally enjoy when people pull out these scriptures that go against Church Doctrine. I am no moderator, but i would say that this would be the place to air your grievances.

I don't see why it is such a hard doctrine to accept. It was taught by the most respected early Christian church fathers. It is taught today. Man will follow the grand example set by Jesus Christ and inherit all that the father has to offer. It is written in scripture that will be joint-heirs with Christ and share in His glory for eternity (1 Peter 10:5 & Romans 8:17.) That doctrine doesn't scare me, it makes me hopeful. And sometimes, it makes me realize the beauty of this plan and brings me to tears.

Albums of 2008 1. Dr. Dog - Fate 2. Conor Oberst - Conor Oberst 3. Rivers Cuomo - Alone II 4. Born Ruffians - Red, Yellow & Blue 5. Jenny Lewis - Acid Tongue

I listen to music way to much. I also read up on various theological things. I am studying to get a bachelor's in Religion, it is what interests me. So i just hang around reading apocrypha and history.