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The way I understand it is thath you need to receieve those basic ordinances to move from prison to paradise. Regarding Christ's statement about the thief. I believe that anywhere in the spirit world would seem like paradise compared to the Earth. Also an interesting note, What's one ordinances that is a Spirit World ordinance(meaning we do physical ordinances such as baptism here on the Earth. But what is the ordinance we know of that can only be performed in the Spirit world)? Answer: Ressurection

That was one of the quotes that related to the founding of the Kingdom of God(aka. Council of Fifty).

You're not serious are you?

That's interesting.

One of my pet peeves this time of year is the Trunk or Treat. For those of you who don't know a Trunk or Treat is when all the LDS(non-members are invited too) assemble at the church parking lot with their cars and bags of candy. The adults open up their trunks, some may have decorations, and hand out candy. The children, instead of going out house to house and Trick or Treating, go from car to car Trunk or Treating. I dispise this LDS tradition with a passion. It takes away from the tradition and fun of Halloween. And I can only imagin how the Non-LDS(who usually don't attend) feel. Not only are their fewer kids our knocking on door and collecting un-healthy snacks, but there all the LDS are down at the parking lot and there's no one to hand out candy to the few kids who do go trick or Treating. Sure Trunk or Treating is supposed to be safer, but where's the adventure? What thrill is there in walking from parking spot to parking spot getting candy? they might as well just have all the kids line up and have the adults dump the candy in their bags. What happened to the good ol' days of running up the steps of a house, ringing the door bell and getting scared out of your wits as some guy in a mask scares you? What about getting out in your neighbor hood and seeing people. Out there in the chilly night air dressed up as batman or Indiana Jones, getting some exercise. Trunk or Treat is just DUMB! I implore all of you to not support this tradition that is destroying the traditional Halloween. Don't go to the Trunk or Treat! Go Trick or Treating! Ok now that I've gotten that out what do you think about Trunk or Treating? Please post your views about which is better good wholesome Trick or Treating or the abomination known as Trunk or Treating.

Yes I've had herbal tea before. When I was in the Philippines I heard about some kind fo rice coffee that was ok to drink too.

They funny thing is that both sides say scientists support them.

I own a Springfield .45 XD and I bought a little .38 for my wife to use.

Perhaps it's part of Earth's natural cycle of warming and cooling. It's been happening ever since earth's beginning so why not now?

I don't drink caffeine at all. Non for me. I was raised that way and I'm going to raie my kids that way too. The funny thing is that the only time I have had caffeine was on my mission.

It would be interesting to see if I government could run off of donations not taxes.

Oh is that all? I just said I was fan of that system, meaning it intrigues me. I didn't mean to say that I would support a system like that. But anyway, I'm not done reading that first book yet. Don't worry though I'm not afraid to be called communist or whatever. I don't like to be called capitalist either. The current system of capitalism is just like glorified slavery. Don't get me wrong, I support the free market, but I think there should be strict regulation on the organizational structure of businesses. This is to prevent harm to the little guys(employees and consumers). But alas I've gotten off topic again. So let me see if I've got this right. The gold(or precious metals) standard is good because the value of those metals is pretty much stable. Where as if you were to base currency on a product like a car or xbox or something it would lose value over time. S what other things have had a stable value over time?

I'll be offline for a bit. I'm reading those books you referred me to. Here's one I'll refer you to: "It Seems Like Heaven Began on Earth": Joseph Smith and the Constitution of the Kingdom of God I would also like to ask JohnBirch what elements of my views does he feel are communist?

Yes, becuase I want to move on to the next inspired constitution. The United States is falling as Joseph Smith and most other prophets have prophecied. The United States divinly inspired Constitution served it's purpose and now it is being destroyed. God will proved the next constitution to potect his people. That's the Constitution I will be following when the time comes. But until then I still uphold the US Constitution. I'm just stating that the time is coming for the next one. But I'm getting off topic. Maybe we can start another thread about this.

I'm sorry I've never studied any of Karl Marx's work. I'm only trying to come up with a fair system. A system where the big guys don't have unfair advantage over the little guys, and everyone gets what they work for. I can see what you mean but those two statements don't go together. Artcile I, Section 8 of the Constitution says that congress has the power to "coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin." This means that Congerss can coin money as you said, but it can also set the value of that money and set the value of foreign coin in relation to our money. It doesn't say that money value will be determined by the value of gold but it will be set by Congress. Also Artcile 1, Section 10 says that the States cannot "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts." This doesn't say that the US government can only use gold and silver but that only the states can us gold and silver. It makes no mention of what Congress can use for money. Because coining is the way money is made. As I pointed out it says that only States can use gold or silver. The Federal Reserve system is definately wrong. Very true. YEs but even Joseph Smith knew the Constitution would fail. The Constitution has served it's purpose. It's time for us to move on to the next stage of our progression.

Nope you're not missing anything. If person goes through life doing nothing they will still end up in heaven. The Tellestial Kingdom part of heaven but still Heaven,

Well that would solve that problem. But I would still be wary of private banks controling the supply of precious metals. What I mean by that is that everything that is of value and is available to be traded should be represented by a note. So instead of having a banknote that represents metal that can buy something. Just have a note that represents this things to be bought. What I'm saying is, why do we need to go through gold or silver to trade? Why not trade the items directly? No problems here. But as I mentioned above. Why would I trade land for gold when I could trdae it for something directly. Or in other words Why trade land for notes that are tradabel for gold which is tradable for something else. Just cut out the gold middleman and tie the currency to the items being traded. Yeah as I said it would take a lot of work to get that system to work. There shouldn't be stocks. I don't support corporations. I think that a business should be owned by all those who work in it. The profits of that corporation would be divided among the members of the business accdording to the job and time that a person contributes. Any "stocks" would be loans to help a business get funding that would be paid off with interest and the creditor ending up having no say in the what goes on in the business. Simply put there would be no corporations or emplyers and employees, only really big partnerships. The point of this whole organization would be to keep down corruption and stop ceos from getting insane wages, while the people who actually keep the business running get next to nothing. I believe we should have a system where every person gets what they work for. true not everyone will be equal but that will only be because some people will work harder and in different professions than others. I'll have a look.

The way I look at it is this, no mqatter how many times I'm baptised, no matter if I get the gift of the Holy Ghost; without the grace of Christ I cannot make it. There is nothing I can do to make it to the celestial kingdom. Only through Christ's grace can I make it. But there are things I can do that can keep me out of the celestial kingdom. If I decide not to be baptized that can keep me out. If I choose to not recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost, that can keep me out. So there are certain works that are needed to qualify to enter the Celestial Kingdom, without Christ's grace those actions amount to nothing.

Great explaination elgama.

I just read your ideas for a monetary system a-train. It doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. The only problems I would have with it are: 1. Carrying around pounds of coins in my pockets. 2. A metal only currency excludes all the other riches a nation may have. I would think it would be much more advantageous for a nation to use all of it's resources to determine it's wealth, not just it's prescious metals. I'm not saying there wouldn't be enough metal, I'm just saying that it's only a small fraction of a nations total value. Of course I'm not an advocate of paper notes. I do like polymer notes though. I'm also a fan of another system. It's a type of fiat system where the Government prints money as legal tender then sets it's value. With government enforcement it would always retain that set value. This would only work in a planned economy where products were of set value as well. So regardless of how much money was made it would have the same value. No inflation or deflation. Instead of the value being determined by international trading it is set. Obvoiusly this would take a lot of work to actually work. But keep in mind I'm not a pure capitalist. Nor am I an supporter of pure democracy. So maybe that explains something.

It wouldn't be every piece of property, unless the government already owns it. So if the yard that made the sweater was already registered then only the labor would be registerable. Any property that backs the currency wouldn't be able to be sold since it's backing the currency. basically what it is doing is simplifing the barter system. Instead of carrying a chicken around with you to trade for some clothes you carry markers that represent the chicken. Then a person could use that to trade for the clothes. It could be done on a personal level with each person making their own markers but to avoid obvious problems with that the treasury would make the markers. What ideas do you have for a currency system? I would be interested to hear them. If you could make one how would your currency system work?

The cow was just a example. What I'm saying is using all resources as backing for currency. That would include gold but not be limited to gold. I would also include labor in there as well since labor has value as well. The goverment itself would print the money. Property could be registered with a national treasury and then the appropriate number of markers would be printed. How would we keep too much money from being printed? A public registry that would list all property and the corresponding ammount of money in circulation. The courts would hold the treasury accountable for any problems. My whole gold thing was a seperate example about a slightly different topic. The difference between a value based system and the current system is that the curenmt system is based on debt. The government borrows money from the Fed at interest. The Fed gets the money to give the government out of no where, because it's a loan. Because the fed charges interest the government can't possible pay back the loan without loaning more money. So technically the American dollar is a marker of debt that must eventually be paid back to the Fed. So for every dollar you have in you pocket or bank account you owe the Fed that much, plus your share of teh national Debt.

I've never heard someone say they will become white and could never believe that would happen. I'm married to a filipina and her brown skin is a major part of her beauty. If she has to become white I might as well have found a white woman to marry. P.S. sorry fo the double post I guess I should have read the whole thread before posting. Hehehe.

Holding the preisthood(for a man) in this life is not a requirement for salvation. I don't believe people with darker skin were any less valiant than those who have lighter skin. Color of skin does not determine righteousness.

I don't agree with te gold standard. The gold standard was just another way to convive people in the early 1900's that the Fed would be a good idea. As rameumptom said. Gold is not really worth anything. Especially when you are out in the wilderness trying to survive and get food for your family. There is no inherent value in gold. If you and your family are trying to survive and you try to give me(who is also trying to help my familiy survive), gold for food I would laugh in your face, because I would need food, ammo, or clothes, in return. Gold would have little more value than a shiny rock. So you can keep your shiny rocks I'm going to go get something of real value. having said that I thing money should simply be markers for things of value. The money it's self should have no value, aka, just paper. But it should represent things of value. So if you have a cow you would get 1 cow's worth of markers(money) to represent that cow in trade. Instead of dragging the cow all over the countryside you would carry the markers in your pocket.