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Yes and if God ever flooded the whole earth again then He would be breaking His promise. But since all floods have been small localized ones he isn't breaking His promise. If God promise there would be no more localized floods, then God is already breaking His promise because He has either cause or allowed localized floods to occur. Let's go over it again. If God cannot control the elements then that means He is too weak to control them. If he choses not to ten that means He has no influence. Either of these go against what we know about God. But if God does control the elements than those natural occurances happen because He chooses for them to occur. Did God cause the flood during Noah's time to happen? Or was it just random chance? You seemed quite interested when you were claiming I wasn't using critical thinking.

He allowed humanity to move the elements the built the Levees did he not? He allowed those elements to remain in their position after they were made into the levee did he not? When the water was breaking through he allowed those elements to be moved out of the way did he not? If He didn't allow the elements to made into levees then either they would not have been built or mankind is more powerful than God. Since they were built the only reasonable conclusion we can draw is that mankind would have been more powerful than God. Thus you are saying God is weak. If He didn't want the elements to remain in their places then the levees could not have been built as they would have quickly fallen apart. But since they did stand for a time then the elements would be more powerful than God meaning God would have been too weak to move them. If He didn't want the levees to break apart then it means water elements are more powerful than God. If God doesn't have controlover the elements then he is still weak becuse He cannot controlsuch a basic things. Humans would have more power than God. So either way any conlcusion, other than God controls the elements and allowed those things to be done with those elements, says God is weak, or doesn't care. Either conclusion is inconsistent with our knowledge of God found in the scriptures.

So please present the reason, evidence, and fact that has been abandoned. So God doesn't control the elements that make up the levees and the elements of water?

There's a chapter somewhere in the OT where God tells aprophet that He raised up a wicked people to destroy a nation. The prophet was dismayed that God would do such a thing. I also remember God commanding Abraham to lie and tell Pharaoh that his wife was his sister.

Bog down? With testimony building information that helps illustrate the prophetic power of Joseph Smith. We still teach that God spoke to Moses through a burning bush don't we?

Hmm. I believe God is control of all things except for those things that have agency. So you are saying that if we posessed critical thinking skills we would arive at the same conclusions that most scientists have.

I like it in the old films when they say Happy Christmas.

But that wouldn't make sense. If the flood only applied to a small area of land. Then God's promise to never destroy the earth by a flood would mean God promised never to destroy an undetermined area of land by flood. We know this isn't true because floods happen all the time. This would make God's promise false.

August 7, 1973

But what about those who don't celebrate any of those holidays?

God doesn't want everyone to be Mormon. Some peoplemay be better suited as Catholic, or Muslim, or whatever. What we know is not as important as what we do with what we know. A faithful Bahai will recieve a greater reward than a Mormon who doesn't obey the commandments.

Here's one I heard it sure sounds like a myth: The US military tried to duplicate the language learning process in the MTC to help soldiers learn languages faster. But it didn't work for them because they didn't have th Spirit.

They find reasons to justify it. And after they have justified it they feel they can still be Christ like.

I used the think te head in the hat thing was just anti-Mormon stuff. But I found out it was true. Only after that did it become a great faith building experience to know how the translation really happened. Even all the other things Joseph was able to do with seer stones. I wish the church would talk about this more maybe even have some really nice paintings of it.

So it will now be the "fourfold purposes of the church"? I always thought that fell under "Perfect the Saints."

Bless you. Sorry. I couldn't resist.

I must have been absent from math class when they went over that chapter.

Hmm. I was never taught that.

Why? Is God not allowed to tell people things? That's why it's not an emotion that determines a spiritual truth. It's something else. Studying is very important. That's wher ethe reading it and pondering it comes into play. All of that must be done before a person should pray about it. Read it, study it, pray about it. Those are the three steps. 1 Corinthians 12:4-7 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. You seem to have a certain book in mind. I've never prayed to understand why there are no camels in North America. I didn't know camels were supposed to be in North America. Clues to why not every Mormon has a copy of the JoD? Probably because not everyone is interested in reading all that history. But I don't know why that would be in the JoD. I personally would love to read them and I have read parts. But I just done have the time for it. I have so many other important things that need to be done. Someday I'll get around to reading it. Wow, I don't know what to say. Especially considering you probably believe the Bible. This could be applied to you(or any of us that believve the Bible) as well: The lack of answers for its problems are not matters of faith, but matters of intellect. We are not the smartest beings, but we are smart enough to know that when (insert one of the Bible's many internal problems here), it (insert disproving conclusion here). Hmm. I'vve never been discouraged from studying the JoD. Not once ever. But with the limited time I have here on earth I think studying God's word out weighs studying the JoD. I try to answer all questions rather than simply dismiss them. Even when I know a person is just trying to stir up an argument. But some people get tried of trying to answer the same questions over an over especially then the asker is simply trying to be negative and could care less what answer they get. I think calling the matters of faith is simply a way of saying, "Yes there are contradictions and problems, but who doesn't have them. And since we don't have all the answers yet we have to have faith that what we believe is correct even though we don't have any answers to those concerns right now."

I think Heavenly Father had as much hand in raising Jesus as He has a hand in raising all of us.

So when is this guy coming back? So, for the sake of discussion, say God allowed a prophet to make a mistake that affected the church. Then somebody received a spiritual conformation that that prophet was not leading the people correctly. Would that person be justified in leaving the church to live in a manner not affected by the mistake of the prophet, or even starting his own church if he felt he was guided to do so?

I think a better example, although just as crude, would be: Is marriage required between a woman and a sperm donor, if a couple decided to have the wife impregnated from a bank? Ok maybe mine is a bit more crude, but it conveys the situationa bit more accurately than your example. Heavenly father was the literal father of Christ but Joseph raised him with Mary.

Sounds like my friend. His name is Greg and we call Him a Gregnostic. The entire focus of the docrtine of eternal progression is that we will become like God. Wether or not there are previous, alternate, or future God's is really irrelevant and is speculation based upon the diea that we will become like God. Moroni 7:48 48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen. What that is saying is that God does not have another equal God who could compete for our devotion. It is not saying that there are not other supreme beings out there ruling their own universes that exist inparrallel dimensions all sandwiched together like slices of bread. It is saying that God is the only relevent supreme being for us to be concerned about. Palsms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. He wasn't conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary. I don't know. Journal of Discourses is not scripture to me. It's pretty far down on my readining list. There is not enough information in the Book of Mormon to determine its geography. I don't know. Probably because Adam had only one extra rib. Ok I'm just kidding there. But it seems to me that the fact that Adam only had one wife is a pretty weak argument against polygamy. But it is a pretty strong argument that polygamy is NOT required of all people. I also have the feeling that the only reason for polygamy is NOT to have a rapid increase in children. Are your for or against polygamy(meaning plural marriage)? I believe it is called common consent. The vote does not determine that validity of the prophet or revelation. Rather is shows public support for it. The public support of a prophet or revelation is irrelevant to the nature of that prophet or revelation. "Reformed egyptian" as it is called was not a widely known language. It was invented by Nephi and used onlny in the keeping of sacred records like those on the gold plates and other metal plates that they recorded their writings on. Any public writings or messages that went out to the people were probably done in the common language of the people. It is very likely that only a handful(meaning less than ten) knew that language of "reformed egyptian" at any given time. It probably changed over time too. Meaning that Moroni's "reformed egyptian" was different than Nephi's. I don't know. He said a lot of things. I don't deny that he said some pretty nasty things. Like I said, He said a lot of things. Have you tried the Strangite church? They claim James Strang was the rightful successor to Joseph Smith. They never had a history of denying the Priesthood to "blacks". No problem I don't get offended by questions, just people who are unwilling to learn(and by learn I don't mean convert, I mean learn). Revelation doesn't claim that the Bible is the final word of God. It claims that anyone who adds or takes away from the book of Revelation will be cursed. It says nothing about the Bible or being the final word. The Bible wasn't a single book written in linear fashion from Moses to John. The Bible was compiled from various religious texts. This was done hundreds of years after the book of Revelation was written on its own little scroll. In fact there are many different versions of the Bible with different numbers of books. I do not think an omnipotent and omniscient being would reveal his will for the whole of human history and cause it to be written but then after John wrote the book of Revelation say, "Screw the last 2000 years of humanity, they have to guess at what I mean by reading a book that will be completed in 400 or so years." Don't worry no hate hear.Ilike questions. Especially hard ones (or ones about polygamy, hahaha).

Ooh...That's a great example!

It doesn't seem a marriage between Heavenly Father and Mary would have been needed since it seems Heavenly Father didnt have a sexual relationship with Mary. So no, Jesus was not an illegitimate child since Mary never had sex with anyone.