its_Chet

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  1. The speaker-listener tool: One of you hold an object. What it is isn't very important. It should be something small you can hold in your hand. The person holding the object can speak for approximately 30 seconds. Keep it short and stay on one topic. No filibustering or ranting, just communicate one simple point, clearly. After 30 seconds, the other person must accurately summarize what was said before they can respond or make their own statement. After their 30 seconds, the first person must accurately summarize what was said by the second person before they can say what they want to say. You may want to adjust the length of the speaking turns if 30 seconds is too long. The summaries must be accurate. If they are not, the person being summarized is to offer correction as needed. Once the summary is accurate and complete, the next person gets their turn. Keep it to one point at a time and be concise. Continue on a given point as needed. Don't lump a lot of separate points together, but instead use individual turns speaking to address individual points. In my personal experience, this can make communication much more effective. It can limit or erase tension, but even more, it can provide for clear communication. So many disagreements and so much heartache can be avoided when there are no misunderstandings. But beyond that, there has to be goodness in two peoples' hearts to begin with. For a relationship to work, the couple must both be committed to it. Both must be unwilling to end the relationship. For a couple to remain together, they must choose to do so every day. If one person is too selfish to refrain from killing the relationship, there is simply no hope for it. It takes two people to give a relationship life, but only one to kill it. "Bottom line... is the couples that are truly right for each other wade through the same crap as everybody else but the big difference is they don't let it take 'em down. One of those two people will stand up and fight for that relationship every time, if it's right, and they're real lucky. One of them will say something.” -- Dr. Cox
  2. If you're the introverted type, or the sort who's more articulate in print than face to face (like I am), you may find that the dating websites are just the thing for you. The primary reason I attracted my first wife is that she was a loose, immature, boy crazy girl with Daddy issues and envious of her friends in Institute that were getting married. I jumped in with both feet for a lot of reasons. Among them, I was lonely and desperate, never was given the time of day by girls in my school days or anytime after that (with a couple of exceptions), and I had a heavily romanticized ideal in my head that I expected would come true, and with her. I was blind to all the red flags I should have seen from the start. Without this combination of circumstances, I don't think my first marriage would have happened. When that wretched arrangement went up in flames, and I found myself single again, I knew it would be my chance to shine. I got on the dating websites and laid it all out in print -- what I like, what I believe, what I'm all about. I was still snubbed by some women, but I also found that a lot of women were very receptive to me. I even managed to get some truly breath-takingly beautiful women to respond to me. I got to know some great women and some real bad apples too. Instead of trying to get right back in the saddle and regain what I'd lost, I tried to just make as many lady friends as I could, and study their personalities as objectively as possible, as friends rather than the romance crazed, mad committer that I once was. I talked to women from the UK, the Philippines, Brazil, Ukraine, and all over the US. I talked to women who were nearly 10 years older than me, and I talked to women who were nearly 10 years younger than me (although they were usually in too much of a hurry for me). I made a lot of friends and developed feelings for several women, but when I could tell things weren't going to work out, I usually was able to let it go without getting hurt (not counting the Brit I almost proposed to). I had a spreadsheet in which I kept a picture of each woman I was either actively communicating with, or had attempted to contact and was awaiting a response. There were 40 of them by the time I found my wife. I regarded them all as friends, though I was always tempted to go too fast. But since I was methodical and held back to the best of my ability, I was able to glean the best choice out of all the LDS women I could access throughout the entire world. I know that I found the one most able to put up with my idiosyncrasies and flaws. I enjoy her company and never worry that she will intentionally hurt me or betray me. I found my best friend. You can too. I don't know if this site has a policy against name dropping. I apologize if it does. In case it doesn't, here is a list of all the dating sites to which I subscribed and on which I was active: ldspals lds singles lds mingle lds planet single saints There were a few others, but I was never sure they were legit and I never heard back from anyone on them. My favorite site was LDSpals, because of the format. I felt free to create a profile that I felt adequately described me and what I was looking for. There wasn't a huge selection, but I did find a few great women there. With LDSplanet, it was kind of the opposite. The selection was huge and I never really made it through a night of searching on that site feeling like I'd tapped it out. I didn't like the format at all though. Too limiting. I wasn't able to build a very good profile there at all. Single Saints has a cool, unique feature, where you can send them a picture of yourself with your name written on it, and they contact your Bishop to confirm you are a member of His ward in good standing. Then you get a seal of approval on your profile. I don't know how it is for the ladies, but for me, I found the women on all the sites pretty easy to tell whether they were for real or scammers. But it's nice to be able to foster confidence in your own profile with the people who see it. LDSmingle and LDSsingles are almost identical, but I was on both. One has a color code personality test you can take and every profile is color coded, which I found helpful. The other site has a very similar personality test, but the results are not as easy to see in someone's profile as a colored bar near their picture. These were wonderful, happy days for me. I met some really wonderful women, and I chose the best among them. Marriage still is inherently challenging, as it should be, but this way I found the woman who is right for me. The challenges in my second marriage make me stronger, whereas the challenges in my first marriage weakened and corrupted me. I used to hear General Authorities talk about their wives and think they were just pandering or being charitable. I did not have a marriage like that at the time. My first marriage was a cyclone of contention, hostility, and pain. Now I know what they were talking about and I know they were on the level about it. Hope this has been helpful.
  3. BOOKS: The Book of Swords saga by Fred Saberhagen (with the success of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies, I believe making a movie of at least the first three books is an imperative) GAMES: Someone has GOT to make a movie out of the first three games in the Thief series. I'd also like to see a movie made out of The Elder Scrolls 3 - Morrowind. Great back story, but informing the plot with all the lore could be difficult to do without being boring. NON FICTION: If it could be done right (with respect, honesty, and a LOT of detail), a movie about the life of Joseph Smith Jr. would be nice. Too many attempts without too few details to meet my expectations though.
  4. Granted, this book is a self proclaimed theorem, and neither the author nor anyone on this thread is claiming that it is Gospel, it sounds like you're sumarrily dismissing it as wrong, using a story about different people discussing at least somewhat different subjects. You make a good point, that unless a General Authority, the Gospel, or the Holy Spirit says something is true, a responsible person should at least entertain the possibility that it's not true. That's a valid point and I commend it. Some of us are just trying to say that in absence of any authoritative statements establishing the inaccuracy of this book's claims, we find its theories to be plausible. Some of us have chosen to believe them at least for the time being, pending verification by the General Authorities, when or if that day ever comes, or opting to faithfully discard those beliefs should those same General Authorities proscribe it. No harm in that, I submit. After all, having an open mind is how I came to be a member of the Church in the first place. And that's worked out pretty well.
  5. Absolutely in agreement there, Tarnished. If he's going to kick her out of the house, even for one night, he's got no right to demand she sleep in her car. That's cruel. If it was me, I'd go straight to a hotel out of spite. Then I'd order anything I wanted to eat from room service and have pay per view running all night. In this particular case, based on the side of the story we've all heard, we can all agree he's in the wrong. I just disagree with the notion that a person's gender makes them guilty or a victim by default, or that if two spouses have a fight, it is somehow to be expected that it's okay for the wife to kick the husband out of the house, but not the other way around. Unless there are circumstances such as an affair, fear for personal safety, etc., if it's just two people who aren't getting along, I disagree that the sole determining factor on who is the kicker and who is the kickee is gender.
  6. Somewife, I have to tell you, I see parallels with my own failed marriage. She occasionally threw the D word at me. Like the time I caught her emailing love letters to an old boyfriend, and knew that she had seen him while out of state visiting her relatives, and demanded that she come home immediately. She got mad at me, like it was my fault, and said she wanted a divorce. Plenty of other times she admitted she didn't love me, though I refused to believe her. I tried to convince her that she did love, but she just didn't feel it at the time. She had a habit of going to visit her relatives out of state every once in a while. It got more frequent, the visits got longer, and eventually she didn't come back. We're about to get a divorce, and I'm finally at the point where it can't come soon enough. Nobody deserves to be treated the way you and I have. The funny thing is, we're the reason why we get treated like that, in a way. We can always leave. But we never do. We keep trying. We don't give up. We get emotionally abused and convince ourselves that it's just a fluke. And then one day, months after being abandoned, we finally achieve a moment of clarity in which we realize that was what our marriages were all about, and those happy times we remembered were only happy for us, because our spouse was all absorbed in himself/herself, and unhappy because they weren't getting everything they wanted, unable to be happy with what they had, what we tried to do for them, to be for them. You cannot please someone like that. They are impossible to satisfy. They are cold. They are distant. They don't claim you as a friend. They yell at you constantly. They treat you like garbage, and if they don't literally run you down and belittle you, they make you feel that way through the rejection and scorn that constitutes the bulk of their interations with you. My wife has been leaving me for years, but I never saw it coming. I will not make this mistake again. I do have one question though, for anyone who feels like answering, and I don't want this to sound like I'm taking the side of Somewife's husband in their dispute. Why can't a husband kick his wife out of the house? I've seen wives do that before. Is there some sort of chromosome requirement? I know if my wife ordered me to leave the house, I'd tell her she forgot to bring her army and then go find someplace to sleep. Of course, she'd come after me and follow me from room to room yelling and screaming at me and hitting me (and yes, this has happened before), until I just decided of my own free will to go find some other place to sleep. But you can bet your last dollar I'd either go to a friend's house and tell them all about it, or I'd go to a hotel and I couldn't care less what she thought about the cost. Anyway, I've gotten off the subject of my question. If someone stays and someone gets kicked out, are we really suggesting that the man has to be the one to get kicked out, that if he kicks his wife out then he's not a real man? But I suppose if the woman kicks the man out, that's just swell? Some of the comments I've read supporting this assertion strike me as kind of sexist. Maybe I've missed something here, and just don't understand.
  7. What the heck? Hemidakota got banned? When? Why? What's going on around here? I've been away for a while but this is two people now I've noticed got banned and they seemed like good people to me.
  8. What the heck? When did crazypotato get banned? And why?
  9. I should probably clarify. I am not feeling vengeful. It's just that when your so called spouse accuses you of abusing her verbally, emotionally, physically , as well as, um, in other ways, and physically abusing the kids, you can't just ignore it. I honestly can't deny that we never got physical with each other when fighting. I'm not proud of it, but I shouldn't have to accept being blamed in court as the only one who did it. I told my lawyer that I'm very scared about her accusations, and he has requested that she give a deposition to back up her reckless claims. Now, this is the physical abuse portion. The rest of her allegations are simply lies or outrageous, ludicrous exagerations. I'm not out to get her. I gave her almost $3k from our income tax refund. I give her $270 every paycheck, twice a month. This is voluntary, even though my friends disagree that I should do it. If she was willing to move back within driving distance, I'd prefer to split custody 50/50, even though I think it might be bad for the kids to spend that much time with her. But the fact remains that she is bad for the kids (for example, she has called them "G.D. retards", and one time in public and in a very loud voice), and she has, without justification, accused me of some very serious things. I have to defend myself. I can't say I'm not bitter, but I'm doing my best to keep a lid on it. I know I'm being nicer than she is, and I know that I have to take her allegations very seriously. She and her mom already bamboozled me into signing over guardianship of my oldest son, even though I very, very strongly didn't want to, because they convinced me that it was what my wife needed, for her mental health. They are bringing the pain, under the cloak of a smile. I'm trying to be as nice as I can be, but I truly do have to defend myself. Them having the oldest child (my lawyer said I will not be able to get him back, period), that makes it less likely that a judge will let me have the younger two. The deck is stacked against me and I can't just approach this like Marquis de Roxbury. She will not leave the greater Phoenix area. Probably won't even leave Gilbert. There's no getting around the reality that 50/50 custody is not possible in this case. One of us will get the younger kids (at least the middle one, as the youngest is not in school yet) for the whole school year. If I lose, I lose everything. And then I get to pay for it in child support. I hope that doesn't sound shallow, but it's adding insult to injury to take a man's children away from him and then take 25-50% of his income away from him on top of that. I don't know how guys that have been through that make ends meet. It's not that I want it to be this way. It's the situation I've been forced into. I wish I didn't have to defend myself.
  10. I was going to answer baver3's question, but bl8tant did such an outstanding job saying what I was thinking that all I can say now is that i agree 100%. I have shuddered at the thought of bringing into the courtroom copies of pages from my wife's journals in which she writes about wanting to beat me to death (or nearly there) and abandon our oldest child in order to run off with an old boyfriend (and of course, from her perspective, it's all perfectly reasonable). I have shuddered at the thought of saying in court that my wife is just a child who is not ready to raise children herself, especially as a single mom. But after the horrible things she has accused me of, I have stopped shuddering, and have realized that I'm in the fight of my life. When she takes off the gloves, I overwhelmingly feel like I have to do the same, to defend myself.
  11. I guess it kind of depends on how one defines addiction. Can you be addicted to something other than a chemical? Some people consider themselves addicted to gambling, shopping, extreme sports, dancing, or, uh, well, let's just call it "affection". None of these are, in and of themselves, chemicals. But on the other hand, they often are associated with increased levels of chemicals in the brain, such as dopamine or endorphins. So maybe one can still call them an addiction. Whether gaming is an addiction or not, I think most of us can agree that the important thing is to make sure that it doesn't come between family members, and that if it does, ultimatums and domineering behavior are not to be used as a first line means to address the problem. Some people game as a means to escape something about their environment that they cannot handle. Some people just get habitually carried away, lose track of time, etc. Whatever the reason for the perceived excessive gaming, I believe nothing good will come without mutual understanding and if at all possible, agreement. Trying to force a resolution to the problem without those things can lead to disaster. I'm not sure the best way to deal with someone who has at least temporarily lost the ability to control himself/herself is to rub their nose in it and place limitations and restrictions upon them. I mean, there need to be boundaries, but I think the most effective way to deal with someone who's wandered off the reservation is to coax them back into it, rather than chasing after them baring fangs and claws. That'll only send them running farther away. What worked for me was moving back home, spending time working in the yard and with nature, and feeling emotionally closer to my wife. But then, my environment and my "unsatisfactory" relationship with my wife were the primary reasons why I spent so much time gaming. When these were no longer problems, I didn't need that escape anymore. I got a positive solution. I've learned (the hard way) that one can never underestimate the value of shared interests, hobbies, etc. Those out there who have learned to both be gamers, to share in it rather than allow it to become a wedge issue, I salute you. We should all be so good at growing together instead of apart. That's kind of the point of marriage, isn't it? My next relationship has got to be with someone who "gets" me.
  12. Well it wasn't all a vicious cycle of contempt and rejection. One thing about BPDs, when they're on, they're ON! It just happened less and less over the years. When we were courting, that's the only way she was. In the balance, I have to say, I cannot do that again. My spare tire may be more like an inner tube, but it's there. At that point, she knew I'd filed, but I had also decided not to serve the papers. I was not prepared to follow through yet and still didn't want to lose her, and I believe she knew this. We were getting along really well, considering that she wasn't living with me anymore. I thought we were still gonna make it. All I wanted to do was make sure that her psychiatrist was made aware that the person who had spent the most time with her and knew her best over the last 13 years had observed many of the symptoms of BPD and wanted to know if he could check her out for that. Only reason I didn't tell her what it was that I'm sure she has is that you're not supposed to tell people they have it unless you're qualified to treat it. The medication concern comes from her psychiatrist here, who had her on this cocktail of pills that did more harm than good. She's only taking two or three perscriptions now, and she and her mom think that proves something other than that she's happier now. And she's only happier because she is in her comfort zone again. Also, she believes that a person should be able to count on relatives to help raise their children for them. Around here, people are a lot more independent. Not to say she didn't have help. She just needed an unreasonable amount of it. And she never appreciated anything anyone ever did for her. But I digress. They're a little over 1300 miles away from me. I saw them in February, and my oldest flew out to see me in March. That's a little hard to manage because even if he flies out here, I have to drive all the way to Kansas City to pick him up (4 hours away). There's an airport much closer, but the airlines that fly through there don't do unaccompanied minors. Nah, I'm not chasing her anymore. I do NOT want her back, though I'd take her back if she got help and brought our children back home, but I'm off the hook there because she'd never do that. Problem is she and her mom bamboozled me into signing over guardianship of my oldest and I have my doubts that a judge is going to give me custody of the other two, splitting them up. That's what's got me depressed right now. Everything else is a little scary, but I can deal with that. Of course, I see no harm in trying to learn how not to make the same mistakes that you or any other woman's ex made. I see an opportunity to speak to a sane, kind woman about what didn't work in her marriage and learn how not to repeat that mistake on the man's end, and I can't help but want to learn. Men just don't understand women, so much of the time. To have one sit down and explain things to you is a golden opportunity, especially considering the stakes involved in marriage/divorce/re-marriage, etc. You don't appear to be uncomfortable with my inquisitiveness, but if you are I can back off. I messed up the finances one time and she took over. I don't know how sharing control would have worked, but it must have been better than never having so much as a dollar in my wallet, all the time hearing her complain that I didn't make enough money and wasn't ambitious enough. But that's a result of her being an ingrate that was never satisfied with anything that anyone (me or anyone else) ever did for her. She didn't want to share control. I was never encouraged to take any of it myself. She comes from a way of life that says that women are supposed to be the head of household, and if the man does anything other than bow down like a mouse, than he is a chauvanist jerk. I even noticed this outside of her extended family when I lived out there (8 years in total). This is why I'm not surprised that my wife and mother in law are utterly unable to understand that I've prayed about what to do and have consistently received an answer to stay right where I am and not move out there again. They just assume that I'm supposed to do what they want. Priesthood means nothing to them unless it acts as a rubber stamp to their matriarchy. Okay, now I'm sounding bitter. I digress.
  13. I have to agree with Bini, though Funkenheimer makes a relevant point too. The video games themselves are not the problem, and are not inherently evil, as some will tell you. The problem is a person's proclivity to let the video games become more important to them than they should be. And making that decision gets more complicated when you have a family of your own, as the needs of more than just one person have to be factored in. But essentially, the problem is with the person who lets it consume them. It's kind of like caffeine, the way I see it. I once took half a box of caffeine pills to try to keep from falling asleep, and fell asleep anyway. I can drink a cola before bed and have no trouble sleeping (at least no more than usual). On the other hand, I know people who have to have a cola every so often or they get headaches. Different peoples' bodies react differently. Caffeine is not a problem for me, but if going without it gave me headaches (and I go without it often enough that I should know this), then I would know I needed to leave it alone, or at least put in place very rigid controls over how much of it I got. I used to have a problem with video games. I felt a very strong urge to play them whenever I could. My wife and I eventually worked out a schedule of when I could and couldn't, and if she left the house for a half hour or more, I'd sneak in some unauthorized game time whenever possible. It became a real problem. Now, I can say that my wife (soon to be ex wife, and for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with video games) and I never had the kind of relationship in which I would be encouraged not to play. In fact, the rejection and coldness were one of the things that drove me to play. I needed an escape and video games were it. This is why I encourage gamer's widows to take the following approach: If you want to break the addiction, you have to do it gently. Make sure you're not driving him to escape you. In other words, positively encourage him to step away from the games. Try the carrot before using the stick. When you do use the stick, make sure he understands that your concerns are deeper than how "hip" being a gamer makes him look to you, or he may start to do it just to spite you. Remember that removing an addition from a person's life is a lot like trying to remove a wart with a knife. It has become a part of them, and you have to take it slow and careful, and they have to realize that even if you do it's going to hurt, just less than if you tried to rip it right out of them. The slower and more careful you go, the less it hurts. But then there are some who prefer to just rip the bandage right off in one shot than to tug on it slowly. You just don't want to make that decision for the one getting the bandage taken off.
  14. Time to come clean about my avatar. That's not me. It's Craig Charles, portraying the character David Lister from the British sitcom Red Dwarf, one of my all time favorite shows. In fact, the user name "it's Chet" is not my real name either. I borrowed it from Weird Science for my nickname during a game of laser tag several years ago and it just kind of grew on me. I use my real name when I private message people here, but in the open forums I prefer a degree of anonymity. Nothing personal. I'm just a little paranoid when it comes to online security. As far as weight goes, I've heard before that it says in the books that if someone my height drops below 135 his life will be in danger, but my frame is unusually small. I've had friends wrap their fingers around my wrists up to the kuckle joints. My ankles aren't much larger. I'm just really small boned.
  15. Thanks bl8tant and Mr. T. I was down to 130 at 5'9, but the depression started to go away and I couldn't stop eating little debbies and snickers. I was up to 65 push ups for a while, but am down to 45 now. I haven't weighed myself lately, but I'd guess I'm probably at about 145. I know it doesn't look like much in print, but with my small, unimpressive frame, I look pregnant in the mirror, from the side view. Thankfully I've got some decent tone in my pecs, triceps, and shoulders, so I still almost feel like a man. I need to go back to eating more salad and white meat, and less sweets. I just kind of went crazy for a while there when I realized I could buy whatever I want at the store, bring it home, and it wouldn't all be gone in a day. Heck, I'm not used to being allowed to decide how one penny of what I earn is spent. I'm not used to having so much freedom yet. I need to slow things down a bit I guess, and ease into it more gracefully.
  16. Hi there Mirancs8 Didn't see your last post until now. I want to state just for the record that I wasn't trying to boast about how hard I tried to save my marriage, thereby implying that you had not. I didn't mean it that way, and I don't think you took it that way, but when I read my own words as you quoted them, it kind of sounded that way. Just wanted to put this out there. It's funny you mention going with her to her psychiatrist. Back in December I was supposed to go out to visit her and the boys. She had an appointment during the time I was going to be there. She invited me to go with her after I mentioned that I'd like to talk to her psychiatrist. I told her I wanted to speak to him in private if possible and she freaked out. Now I have to say that the reason why I wanted to talk to him in private was because I've heard that you shouldn't tell someone who has BPD that they have it unless you're qualified to treat it, or you could do more harm than good. They tend to get very defensive, go into denial, and resist any opportunity to resolve the issue, or so I hear. So I knew I couldn't tell her what it was I think she has. But she figured my thinking was that I wanted to try to get her hopped up on medication so that she'd be more pliable and willing to come home. I did not go out there in December and trust between us has been dead since then. We haven't really gotten along since then. Over the last few months, she's made it clear that she is an Arizona girl and takes every opportunity she can find to make a show of her embrace of all things Arizona, and her disdain for everything that reminds her of me. It's the weather, it's the stake center we just drove past where she went to a youth dance every week when she was 17 blah blah blah, it's the way she expects extended family to raise our children because she's too emotionally crippled to do it and yet still wants to take them away from me, it's the way she thinks being a good husband means you have to be a total tool who enjoys being manipulated, dominated, used and abused, etc. She consistently paints a picture of a past without me, and a tailor-made future I cannot fit into, a future that requires her shedding the part of her that was compatible with me, and actively feeding the part of her that never accepted me. She is emotionally fleeing from me. And I'm tired of chasing. I don't want to sound self absorbed by going on about my situation, at least not without being asked to. I don't want to poke and prod at your situation more than you're comfortable with either, so I'll back off if I get a hint. Until then, I want to make sure I don't jeopardize my own future by being too much like your ex. Not that I'm pursuing you, just, I like to learn from other peoples' mistakes instead of repeating them myself, when possible. I am kind of passive and not comfortable taking control. My wife was always very domineering, selfish, and aggressive. She never compromised when there was a difference of opinion. She either conquered or capitulated, one or the other. I got used to her running the show. She never asked me to take over and she didn't want me to. I understand that your ex got on your bad side by not pulling his weight. I also understand that he would say desperate things to you not unlike me telling my wife about that dream I had. If you could give advice to all us newly divorced and soon to be guys here at lds.net on how not to be like your ex, what would it be? Where did he go wrong? When did he change from being the man you wanted to be with forever to your future ex? I can only speak for myself, but I worry after having my heart broken twice that maybe there's something wrong with me, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to tell a peach from a lemon. What advice can you give a guy like me on how not to be like your ex?
  17. Hey there Mr. T. Hats off to you (especially the furry ones). The uh, "more prized" attire was the first thing I packed up. It kept reminding me of anniversaries and other special occasions. Too many memories that to me defined who she was, and the level of health of our relationship. All those memories turned to agonizing torture and I just couldn't stand to be reminded of what I'd lost. There's one positive side to being married to a person with Borderline Personality Disorder: When they're on, they're ON! Unfortunately, I have come to realize that's not the real her. When she's off, that's the real her. Nobody should have to play "spin the wheel and see what you get" all their lives. Sounds like you've handled what we all know is a horribly painful situation with remarkable aplomb, or humor, at least. I hope you can continue your healing. I hope we all can. Mirancs8, you hit the nail on the head, talking about how it feels to watch your eternal companion turn into your enemy, to feel the brutal, crushing blow of every sacred, cherished memory turning into a lie. You wonder how you could have ever let such a person touch you, let alone have children with them. And all those years, you could have spent giving your love to someone who'd have appreciated it, you feel like you wasted all those years on an ungrateful, backstabbing monster, who now only wants to hurt you in any way possible, to any degree possible. I don't mean to remind you about all this, but only to say that I know just how you feel. And I bet I'm not the only one, unfortunately. I won't ask you how old you are. I'm 36. I never dated or felt comfortable in social situations when I was younger, and I looked better then. I've often said that I gave my wife the best years of my life. Now that I'm about to lose her and will have to find someone else, I know she will have to look past the love handles and other things that make me self conscious. Putting that aside, if I do find someone who is able to treat me the same way I treat her, who is emotionally stable, loving, and warm hearted, I will feel like I gave what belonged to her to someone else. Not only my 20s and early 30s, but so many "firsts" were given to someone who is going to get a divorce from me (and by now I prefer that anyway). I can't take all that back to give to someone more worthy, and I really wish I could. A friend of mine who got divorced from his BPD wife and is now remarried to a woman who treats him very well explained this to me in a pretty insightful way. He said that you can compare your memories to a filing cabinet. For a while, the memories of the spouse you just lost will be fresh in your mind. They'll be the files in your file cabinet that are toward the front of the drawer. But as life goes on, whether you mean for it to happen or not, newer memories will go into that drawer, pushing the ones of your ex back, one file at a time. He said that while he didn't get remarried just to deal with the pain, he did not realize until after he got remarried that it was an important part of his healing process, and that as well as he felt before, getting remarried and starting over with someone else really helped put more files in that cabinet. I guess some files just won't go to the back of the drawer until you put a similar, newer file in it. My friend said that he thought he was truly over his ex wife, but realized after he got remarried that only then was he completely over her. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I hear it gets better. I hear that you eventually replace those once beautiful, now excruciating memories, when you marry someone else and they fill that spouse-shaped hole inside your heart. And then you have beautiful memories all over again, and you can forget the pain of watching the ones you had before become mocking lies. That's how I hear it works, and I'm looking forward to that. Now if I can just get rid of those love handles.....
  18. He must not have been addicted very strongly then (no terminolgical offense intended, Funkenheimer). Had he been as addicted to it as I was, this would have backfired on you severely. Maybe you were nicer about it than you claim. :) I don't know, maybe it's just me, but part of the reason I played so much was it was an escape from the remarkably depressing place I was living, both geographically and emotionally. Some of us find it as hard to quit as it would be to give up smoking. Some of us don't react well to being ordered to stop, especially if, at least in our own minds, we believe that we're taking care of everything that needs to be done and our spouse is just being domineering and busting our chops over something she finds dorky or un-hip. I just want to caution all gamer's widows out there one more time to be very careful not to come off like that. It's worse than counter-productive if you do, no matter how well you might actually mean.
  19. Thanks Mr. T. You put it much more succinctly than I was able to. Coincidentally, when I finally got the idea to pack up her clothes that were in the closet, I noticed that every time I went in there afterwards, I felt noticably better. "Living with ghosts" was harder than I realized.
  20. Thanks for responding Mirancs8 Let me just start by saying, and please don't take this the wrong way, I like your avatar. It really says what I can tell you've been feeling, and I can guarantee you it says what I've been feeling, sitting all alone in this house where my wife and children once lived, where their things are still plainly visible in every room, and every room stirs memories that were once pleasant but now are more like knives in my heart. When it gets too much, when fleeing from one room to escape that torture only finds me facing a similar torture in another room, I end up with my forehead buried in my knees, just like that. Well, thankfully, it doesn't happen as much anymore. I've made all sorts of new friends since this started. People in my ward that I didn't know cared, just informally adopted me into their families and one family in particular has me over every other night to watch Dr. Who or some other show or movie that takes my mind off of my troubles. Did I mention that my new best friend has a background in psychology and gives me free counseling every day at lunch? (We also work at the same place) I appreciate your blunt advice, but I'd like to explore it a little more, if that's okay. Obviously, such devotion is wasted on someone like her, and I've heard that women in general don't respect perceived weakness. But I have to ask, would a normal woman find that kind of sentimentality to be weak and worthy of contempt? If so, could she be persuaded to look at it as more of a mark of courage and strength? It takes a lot of strength to live through what I have lived through, when you feel as emotionally damaged as I have been. Honestly, if it weren't for my friend the amateur shrink, I'd have taken the long drive to nowhere just to end the pain several months ago. I guess that just sounds even weaker, but the way I see it, you should love your spouse so much that if they did to you what mine did to me, it would affect you just as intensely. At least that's my humble opinion. I know this much, that kind of devotion kept my marriage together for a long time, and apparently it was the only thing that did. It may have been a bad marriage, but at least I know I didn't fail it. When this is over I will have no regrets. I will not have to wonder if I tried hard enough, forgave enough, was humble enough, sacrificed enough, and in short, loved enough. It's like Sade says in "No Ordinary Love" -- "I gave you more than I could give." I know what that means all too well. But I'd rather give too much than not enough. I don't believe in quitting, especially in marriage. In fact, I never would have filed for divorce if it wasn't the only way to keep from losing my children. Going into that attorney's office was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, the last thing I ever wanted. I would rather have died. It felt worse than death. My mother in law, a widow, tried to tell me she knew what I'm going through. I told her that when she passes through the veil, she will get back what she has lost. I, on the other hand, will not. I have lost the only woman I ever had children with, lived with, shared my heart, body, and soul with. That is lost forever, and in July it will become official. We will face each other in court, and she has already made it clear she is going to fight dirty and ruthlessly. So I just have to ask, wouldn't a normal woman appreciate that kind of devotion? See, I'm a codependent, and I know it, and I try to control it, but I've also accepted that there's a certain level of "clingy-ness" about me that I just can't change. I might be able to limit it, but never completely get rid of it, I believe. I just have to know, does that make me pathetic? I have no doubt my wife despises me, but I want to believe that's her problem, not mine. To me, there is only one way to see that dream I mentioned. Honor. To be willing to die for something is to honor it. To be willing to die for someone is to love them. To be willing to die for someone who hates you is unconditional love. I'm glad I loved her that much. I'd forever doubt myself had I not. Wait a minute, I'm trying to be supportive of you, Mirancs8. Enough about me. Let me salute you for your dedication to your role as mother and wife. I can see that you certainly tried to make your marriage work. I applaud you for doing what you had to do to move on in your life, when you burnt those old letters. It must have been difficult though. Didn't you feel like you were destroying the only trace of the man you fell in love with? I mean, he became this other person you couldn't relate to, who made your life miserable, and all you had to remember the man who had won your heart was the letters and things from that time, am I right? Must have felt like burning the letters was getting rid of the good man, and of course the bad man is still around. That's kind of how I look at my old letters to and from my wife. I gathered them all up into one box and plan to hide it somewhere. It's like I'm keeping that beautiful, sweet, loving girl I fell in love with so long ago alive, in a way. But of course, she's gone and won't be coming back. It's more like a memorial, I guess. You probably saw your old things in a different way though, right? How did you feel when you burned them? How did you reach the decision to do so? I didn't mean to disparage all people with emotional problems or behavioral disorders. It's just that I've had my heart broken by two different women and they both suffered from clinical depression (among other issues). I just can't go down that road again. I've been burned too many times, too severely. But you make a good point about a person's willingness to deal with their own issues. I remember going to marriage counseling with my wife. She'd be rude to me on the way there and back, but while we were there she put on a nice face. I believe she approached her individual counseling the same way. I believe she has Borderline Personality Disorder, but she has yet to be diagnosed. I believe this is because she does not open up to her psychiatrist. She also has a knack for finding physicians who don't take her seriously, who dismiss her complaints and fail to diagnose real problems, or misdiagnose them. Maybe it's because she doesn't communicate well. But essentially, she seems to be stuck in a pattern of seeking treatment for one ailment or another (or at least appearing to), and never getting better. Specifically, with her emotional and behavioral issues, she doesn't want to accept that she isn't "normal", and beyond that, she's a quitter. Maybe someone else could pull it together and not make their family suffer for their imbalances and such, but not her. Again, I salute you for the effort you put into making your marriage work. Obviously, you did not just throw in the towel because it stopped being as fun as it was when you were courting.
  21. I used to be a member of the “love as hard as you can even if you get nothing back” camp. I used to believe that marriage should never end unless there is a risk of serious physical injury to one or both of the spouses incident to it. I also used to believe that if I decided my marriage would never end, it simply would not. I used to think it was all up to me, because unless we both decided it was over, it never could be. I also used to believe that no amount of unhappiness and misery justified divorce. It took over 13 years of being married to a very selfish person with as yet undiagnosed and very serious behavioral disorders before I began to see things differently. Let’s consider this whole thing logically. I don’t know about anyone else, but for me, when I ponder the Gospel logically, I occasionally have a breakthrough and begin to understand something I never did before, or even receive a personal revelation. That’s because the Gospel is logical. It’s natural. It’s not a mystical fairy tale. It is simply reality, though it is often obscured by our mortal perception and spiritual weaknesses. Logically, let’s imagine what might happen if we lived a celestial law, appeared before the Savior at our judgment, and were found worthy of the Celestial Kingdom, although we did not have a spouse. We already know that Heavenly Father is a loving and merciful Father, as opposed to a petty, albeit omnipotent taskmaster. He has commanded us to marry and have families of our own, promising us that if we are sealed together by the authority of the Priesthood, it will be an eternal family. We are commanded to do so because it is the purpose of life, to emulate Heavenly Father in every way possible, until we eventually become just like Him. All of creation follows a pattern, a “circle of life”. Even Heavenly Father does. So we’re supposed to marry, but what if we never do, and live an otherwise celestial life? We know Heavenly Father will allow those who did not have an opportunity to hear the Gospel in mortality a chance to hear it on the other side of the veil. We know that the same mercy applies to those who reach their judgment unmarried. Now, suppose, in this scenario, you reach your judgment unmarried and Heavenly Father tells you that you will now finally have your chance to be married, to fulfill this ordinance of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. How do you reckon this will be done? Will He choose someone for you? Will He make recommendations, but leave the decision to you? Will He turn you loose to go find someone all by yourself? If He does recommend someone, will it be a stranger, or will it perhaps be someone you might have known in life, with whom you are familiar? I suppose a lot of this might depend on individual circumstances, but when I ponder this scenario, and when I remember all that is involved in courtship and getting married in this life, I am solidly convinced that Heavenly Father expects us to look around and search for someone who sparks our interest and attracts us, rather than just receive a spouse from a distribution center or something like that. I am convinced that arranged or passionless marriages are not the way Heavenly Father prefers we do things. We need every bond possible in our families. We need to interact together with spouse and children in such a way that we continually grow together, and our relationships become stronger, never coasting, never resting on our laurels. Certainly never regressing and deteriorating. If this kind of celestial family is not impossible in a marriage devoid of passion and mutual attraction, it certainly is harder. Personally, I’ve come to view anything that makes growing closer to Heavenly Father more difficult as being, in at least some sense, sinful. This is the logic that drives me to believe that in finding a spouse, we are not only justified, but obligated to find one that appeals to us on every level possible. Is it shallow to want a spouse we find physically attractive? I think not. Provided, we should strive to not be so shallow that we are only attracted to the kind of people whose appearances are so glamorous and comely that it gives them a superiority complex and cripples their ability to relate to people in a normal way, on even ground. I believe this is why so many celebrity marriages fail, by the way; the “I can do better than you” mentality. So after we have searched and found someone whose company we enjoy, to whom we are attracted, and who makes us happy enough to convince us that we will be happy with that person for eternity, next, let’s consider what happens if that person fails to continue to treat us the same way they did when they won our favor. What if that person turns into a real jerk? What if they start calling us names? Ridicule us? Show open contempt for us in front of the children, undermining our authority as parents? What if instead of basking in the warmth of their love, we find ourselves detecting only coldness and apathy from them? What if the adoring smiles are replaced with screeching and shouting? The question is, do we bolt? Do we endure? If so, for how long? I believe that everyone has a breaking point, even President Monson (although I guarantee you his is miles above and beyond mine). If you force yourself to live with someone who constantly antagonizes you, like a child poking an animal in a cage with a stick, you have to understand that eventually that animal is going to bite. It’s only a matter of time. Everyone’s patience runs out eventually. And what if we fail to extract ourselves from such a situation before the pressure overwhelms us? We may lose control, but are we not obligated to avoid prolonged exposure to the influences that would cause us to do so? Wouldn’t it be like smoking a cigarette and hoping to not become addicted? When we find ourselves tempted beyond our ability to withstand, I believe it’s because we entered into or stayed too long in a situation where we should not have been. I believe that some domestic violence is the result of an abused spouse finally cracking and retaliating. And when it goes that far, it often goes so far it cannot be taken back again. I’m talking about mistakes with permanent consequences that can never be undone, even if a full repentance is made. That is obviously an extreme scenario. Consider what happens if things never go that far, but move down that path. Consider emotional abuse, neglect, hostility, etc. Consider parents whose marriage is so unhappy the children cannot help but notice. How does this make the Gospel look to the children? How does this teach them how to treat their own spouses when they get older? How likely are these children to have spiritually healthy families of their own? How can we please Heavenly Father when our families are in such a state? I used to believe the only appropriate option was to hold on and suffer through it. Teach the children devotion by suffering the mistreatment you receive from your spouse. Never mind if they’re suffering too, just teach them to be patient and forgiving. Perhaps this is appropriate to a point, but beyond that, I have learned that it does more harm than good. When your spouse is yelling at your children in public, openly calling them “G.D. retards” for doing something that would have only annoyed a normal person, you know that you are not the only one suffering. Patience is no longer a virtue, nor is forgiveness. That person needs help, and if he or she refuses or fails to get it, you owe it to those children to get them out of there. Okay, what if there are no children? What if it’s just the two of you? At what point do you bail, if ever? Do you wait until there are children? If you do and you get divorced then, I can assure you that unimaginable pain will be distributed among you and your children. Everyone will pay a price. But we don’t just cut and run when things get hard do we? We don’t leave someone just for not being interesting to us anymore, right? Of course we don’t. Marriage of convenience is not celestial marriage. Anyone who gets married just for what they can get out of the deal is sadly misled. Marriage is more about giving than receiving. And when this is our attitude, and our spouse is a good person with a healthy mind, the receiving takes care of itself. As I see it, there is a fine line between being patient with a jerky spouse and removing yourself from an unhealthy and abusive situation that will drag you down to hell in time. I know for a fact that an abusive family member can condition other family members to be abusive also, and that this is Satan’s work, the core of his ambition. I know for a fact that goodness and evil are both contagious, free will notwithstanding. Our free will is best utilized in escaping and avoiding situations where we are tempted beyond our ability to resist. When I was first baptized, and for a couple of years after, I felt a warmth I could not describe. People treated me like the sun shined out of my nose. After a while of being married to an emotionally abusive spouse, I felt myself becoming like her. I felt the desire to retaliate growing day by day. I became more and more the worst version of myself. I felt myself slipping into hell. I did not understand what was happening or why, and I believed that the end of my marriage was not an option. I held on for over 10 years in that condition. We had three children. They have all exhibited signs of behavioral disorder, some of it obviously learned. And I have been antagonized beyond my ability to control myself, on multiple occasions. I have reacted, retaliated, in inappropriate ways. My chance for getting custody of the children in the divorce is in jeopardy because of my mistakes, though those mistakes are not mine alone. I stayed in a marriage that caused more harm than good. A marriage that accomplished Satan’s will more than it accomplished Heavenly Father’s. It made a mockery of Father’s will. It became an unholy thing, a plague to us all, and upon all our relatives. It will end soon, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing. It’s the end of a marriage that should never have happened. God willing, I will find a normal woman, who treats people the way they treat her, or better yet, a true daughter of God who lives a celestial law, rather than a telestial, or even terrestrial one. Hopefully I can find a woman who will let the Gospel or at least common sanity govern her actions and words, rather than “spin the wheel and see what you get”. And if I am blessed so, my children will have a second chance at a normal childhood, and a normal life to follow. I failed my children by subjecting them to an abusive mother. I have a chance to make things right, and find happiness for myself in the bargain. I am the survivor of a marriage that should not have been. Sometimes you should leave. When, you ask? I’m afraid there are no simple answers. It’s a decision we must all make, succinctly stated by The Clash: should I stay or should I go? God only knows.
  22. Hey Miran Sorry I didn't see your thread until today. I've been extremely busy, but I've been praying for you Noche, Ryanh, and everyone else who's going through marital problems/divorce around here. Doesn't it just make you sick to know that there are others suffering just like you are? I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. Actually, I finally got to a place in my life where I was able to take Ryanh's advice and mentally divorce myself. That's when the tears finally stopped. That's when I was finally able to see what she's done to me, and how Heavenly Father wanted me to have a healthier life than what I've had with her. My self esteem is very slowly returning. Losing her has gone from being a fate worse than death to the first step on my way to sanity, the kind of joyful and healthy life that we are always talking about in the Church, yet I never experienced it for more than just very rare moments with her. Some months ago, I had a dream in which I saw her with a new husband and someone tried to shoot her, and I took the bullet for her and died. Sometime after I had that dream, I told her I would die for her, knowing that as I did so, she still hated me. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if you told me you know what I'm talking about, how it feels to bind yourself that intensely to another person, and spend 14 years denying to yourself that they don't love you. How it feels to tell yourself all that time that the person you fell in love with is the real her/him, and this hateful, neglectful person who consistently rejects you, who has little but contempt for you, is only an aberration that will someday go away and be replaced by that sweet person who knelt with you at an altar in the Temple and pledged an oath before God and angels to love you, cherish you, and stand beside you for eternity, from that day forward. I bet you know what I'm talking about. I'm thankful that at least my soon to be ex-wife is a member of the Church, and is at least trying in her own strange way to live the Gospel. Of course, I don't know where she got the idea that thumbing your nose at the Priesthood was okay, that leaving someone and putting over 1300 miles in between him and his family is okay, just because she can't manage to cut the umbilical cord. At least she isn't running down my faith the way yours is. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that on top of those feelings you have of being abandoned or punished by Heavenly Father. I know this doesn't change anything for you, but I'm reminded of David W. Patten's last words (paraphrased): "Whatever else you do in all your life, never deny the faith. Divorce is the devil's playground. You and others like you know that he wants you to question and doubt yourself, to believe that your marriage failing makes you a failure. I know it's how I felt for a long time, and probably will to some degree until I'm finally through with this ordeal. Satan knows if he can make you doubt yourself, it's a shorter leap to get you to doubt Heavenly Father and our Savior. I have to keep reminding myself that it doesn't make me a failure. I held on for over 13 years, being the only one in love, the only one interested in making it work. The moment I made a conscious decision to stop carrying the full weight of my unhealthy marriage on my shoulders, all by myself, I immediately noticed that she did not pick up any of the slack. It simply fell to the ground in ruin. She didn't and doesn't care. If it had not been for my commitment, it would have happened years ago. I did not fail my wife or my marriage. My wife failed me. I'm not perfect and I've got my flaws, but when I'm thinking clearly, I don't blame myself for this. It's not pride, mind you. It's the Holy Spirit consoling and comforting me, confirming the truth to me that others have told me: I was a good husband. I did not deserve to be abandoned by my wife, for her to take my children away from me and use them to blackmail me into making the lives of me and my children even more like nothing other than a means to her selfish interests. Even though in some ways you're showing me the flip side of my own coin, I have seen from the posts of yours that I've read here and elsewhere that you have known suffering. While I can't make your tears any less, please know that at least I can empathize with much of your pain. I find myself wishing the Church could teach people like me how to better know when you've found the right one. I was misled by a temporary and unstable emotional state of the one I fell in love with. I was tricked into believing it was the real her, that she'd always be like that to me, affectionate, tender, warm, kind. I fell in love with a vapor, a ghost. I did not understand psychology well enough to know that it wasn't real and would inevitably fade, never to return. There were red flags, but I did not recognize them as such. Falling in love may be easy, but choosing someone capable of a healthy and happy long term relationship is by no means easy. There is too much mental illness out there, too many behavioral disorders, too much emotional instability, for it to be as casual an endeavor as it used to be. We often need at least a basic understanding of psychology to avoid picking a real lemon these days. And there aren't many choices we can make with the potential for greater harm or happiness than who we will marry. I learned too late about behavioral disorders, biochemical imbalances, and emotional issues. I could not see the red flags that were there. I have since learned to recognize many of them. I imagine you know all about what I'm talking about. If you don't mind sharing (and please don't feel pressured if you do mind), can I ask you how you were able to let go of him? When did you realize he wasn't the person you married? What happened and how did you know? It took me ages to accept the truth, to see it for what it was and is. The last thing I want to do is repeat my mistake. I think we can really learn a lot from each other. I'm still learning from my own situation. Your posts on Noche's thread have already helped me see more clearly. Who knows? Maybe I or someone else here on this thread can return the favor.
  23. The Kolob Theorem suggests that there are two rings of dust and rock dividing the kingdoms from each other in this galaxy, and that the reason we cannot see Kolob is because it is enshrouded by these rings. But I like your idea too. It would stand to reason that Father would need something to clean up the mess from novas and exploding stars (unless He simply gathered it all together during the creation process), and perhaps a black hole would accomplish that well. It would suggest a "circle of life" approach to cosmic construction, and would explain where the Savior got the materials He used to build this world. Maybe you're both right, and there is a black hole at the center of the galaxy, and also there is a ring of dust serving as a veil between the Celestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms, and the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms as well. I like your logical approach, Hemidakota. The Gospel as I see it is always logical, once properly understood.
  24. its_Chet

    Infidelity

    Going through what I am going through, having for an ever present and remarkably charitable friend someone who is also very gifted with knowledge of psychology, a past containing some considerable mistakes which he has long ago repented of, and generally a a very good handle on the school of hard knocks and life lessons learned, I can say this has been a tremendous help to me, and the only reason I am still alive. And I truly mean that. If I were going through what you are, Noche, I'd still need this. Maybe we all would. A friend who keenly understands psychology and can offer free counseling every day over lunch (and he works at the same place I do). A friend who invites me to his house to hang out with his whole family; we watch TV together, really cool shows, really funny shows, that everyone enjoys, that take my mind off my troubles and make me laugh and smile, if only for a little while. They even invite me if they go grocery shopping together as a family (which ends up being a several hour event). My friend listens patiently to me whining about my sad life, at least the parts of it that involve getting my heart broken, or setting myself up for it to happen. Day after day, week after week, month after month, he's been there for me. When my emotions kept me from being able to "get it", to see clearly and understand logically what has happened to me, and how to avoid ever going through it again, he has been there for me, patiently listening, not interrupting, simplifying only when it has been helpful to me and aided in understanding. He let me get all this garbage off my back, off my shoulders. Some of it is going to still be there for a while, but he's helped me get rid of so much of it, that I can begin to stand up on my own two feet and face the future without dread, without despair. I can at least move forward, and I'm making progress toward being the kind of person that I want to be, progress that has been mostly stifled and in some ways set back over the last 14 years, due to the dysfunctional relationship I have been in but am now beginning to emerge from. Not only has he offered me a sympathetic ear, not only has he offered me psychiatric counseling, not only has he explained to me the madness I've lived through and made me understand what has happened to me, and that so very much of it was not my fault, but he is also a worthy Priesthood holder, a good man who knows the Gospel, a good father who has helped me understand what being a good parent means (which is not necessarily obvious when everything you know about parenting is learned in the partnership of someone with serious behavioral disorders and anger management issues, someone who fills your home with a very bad spirit). My friend has healed me mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. I often wondered where the Savior was, and when I was going to see all the mercy people seem to absent mindedly promise He'll show us. You know, you keep hearing from people who, as far as you know, have no idea what real suffering is that "You should apply the atonement", and that "the Savior will help you through this by succoring you in your time of need." Too often it sounds like empty plattitudes coming from people who are speaking more about belief than knowledge, who can be cheerful because they don't actually know what you're going through, yet still are convinced that they have a simple solution you need to stop "ignoring". I often found myself wondering when the Savior was going to heal me, when all that "talk" was going to come true for me. And then one day I realized that He was doing it through the ministration of friends, relatives, people in my ward, even my employer. Almost everyone I know has made some contribution toward my healing, toward empowering me to survive and live on, with hope that someday I may be happy again. But the single greatest help to me has been my friend, the amateur shrink. Who wouldn't want a friend like mine in a situation like mine or yours, Noche? From now on, when I pray for you, I'll pray that you can find at least some of the support I have. That you'll find a counselor, friend, relative, whatever, who will help you face every facet of the pain you feel, leaving no stone unturned in your search for healing. You've been wounded on multiple levels, and you must heal that way. Sadly, try as hard as your husband might, the fact that he caused you most of your pain probably makes it impossible for him to heal you all by himself (and it's apparent that he would if he could). It is my hope that you and your husband will make it through this, devoted to each other, and that in the meantime, you'll receive the kind of charity and healing that I have. Sometimes it helps just to have a friend who will listen until you get it all out. Keep your chin up Noche. We're all praying for you.