chitchat

At least get a Berkey or some other water purification system, so you can access a creek. Berkey Water Filter Systems and Purifiers, Emergency Water Filters from British Berkefeld

Wow, great points all of you. Thanks for taking time to share.

LM, I really enjoy the way you write in your posts - they're fun to read and informative. Elgama, thanks for clarifying. I think you use wisdom when you prioritize according to where you see God leading. As long as God is leading through His Holy Spirit in us and through the Bible, I think we find blessing. As for prophets in our time, I'm researching all of this. I am sure you would agree that blind obedience to any human being is not wise. We need God's Spirit guiding us toward truth and wisdom. Reading the Bible and staying in prayer is vital. As an aside, I also love Pam's gingerbread cookie avatar! :) That has got to be one of the cutest I've ever seen. The facial expression is so precious and too often captures how I feel sometimes. ha!

If a person leaves the Mormon church and attends another denomination for a while, is he excommunicated?

That's okay, Pam. ((((((Thanks)))))) for explaining. :) People outside the Mormon church can get the impression that Mormon families have it more together than families of other faiths do. The young men riding bikes around town look so neatly groomed and mature. And wow, the Brigham Young University choir is like incredible, you know? And I do believe that family responsibilities are emphasized in the Mormon church which is a very good thing. Not to drift my own thread, but I was kinda hoping to hear that things are much better in the Mormon church than in other churches, mainly because it's just so sad seeing the direction many of the young people today are headed. It would give me joy to know that somewhere on this earth things are going pretty well, but the reality is that we all need Christ's return. I believe the public schools contribute greatly to the teenage rebellion problem, but that's that "other thread" - lol! As far as SLC, nope, I'm just not very familiar with other cities in Utah, that's all. I've heard of Provo, but know nothing about it.

Glenn Beck had a documentary exposing a lot of what is behind or has led up to the "progressive movement" today. It appears to me that the progressive movement is behind MSNBC and also the BBC which tends to be liberal. I will agree that FOX has its share of bias, but I don't think it's possible for any human being to be totally neutral when it comes to news. This is because we all hold to one worldview or another. Still, FOX tends to at least give both sides of the issue much more than the other networks. This gives some info on the progressive movement. It's origins are pretty sordid and that's what Beck exposed in last week's commentary. YouTube - Glenn Beck A Closer Look At The Progressive Movement

That makes it clear. Thanks to you all for respectfully explaining that. Those are very interesting thoughts about the apostasy. What I'm about to say is not for the purpose of arguing. I'm trying to understand clearly where Mormons stand on this. It is confusing to me. I have no intention of showing disrespect for anyone's right to believe as they do. I am simply trying to understand and see if I see the same things that some here do. It could be that once I understand, that I will. HiJolly said, "We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do." Are you saying that in order to be saved (salvation and deliverance from our sins), we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments? The reason I ask is that Protestants believe they must also do those things as followers of Christ, but Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to completely cover our sins and give us salvation. What we actually do or don't do does not gain us salvation per se outside of believing that Christ is our Savior. In other words, sadly, we are frail humans and will continue sinning and fighting sin after we are saved by Christ. He alone saves us, and it happens not by our own actions. Nothing we do can wash away our own sins. Christ is omnipotent and sovereign. For a Protestant to think that anything he does will gain him salvation - cheapens the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. If all I have to do to gain salvation is believe, be baptized, and follow the Commandments, then why would Christ have had to die on the cross? Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." God even gives us the faith we need. I'm wondering if this is where some get the idea that Mormons believe in "works". I am not sure that Mormons actually believe that because you sing the great hymns written by Protestants and as such, it would appear that we think similarly, but I'm confused and trying to understand better. Do you believe that you must be baptized and follow the Commandments in order to be saved?

That's a good point about being able to help others and it's a noble heart that thinks to do that. Hopefully knowing how to garden, save seed, etc. will help others learn how to catch their own fish, so to speak. Part of the problem is that many people (of several faiths) who know to prepare don't do it, for assurance that they can lean on someone else. I think LM already mentioned that. Pam, I live in the eastern part of the country and have never visited Utah. I do know a lot of Mormons live in Utah. I guess that Salt Lake City is the only big city I'm aware of in that state and since we're talking about big cities, that's the one I thought of. You brought up concern over a question I asked about home schooling in another thread. If it helps, then I can leave this board if my questions are making some uncomfortable. I'm honestly just trying to understand some of the beliefs and that requires that I ask hard questions, but I do realize that some people are disrespectful of the right of Mormons to believe as they do, so there could be sensitivity and a wondering "why" some questions are asked. I do not have that kind of negative motive, but genuinely want to understand the reasons behind some of the beliefs. I do think deeply and will ask deep questions sometimes. I like a lot of things about the Mormon church such as the music and the fact that so many prepare, or at least have businesses helping others do so. I do not understand some of the beliefs which is why I'm asking questions. I hope that helps allay any misunderstandings here. Some of the thread titles here appear to welcome questions by others, so I thought it was okay to do so, but I could be misunderstanding. If so, I can honor a direct request to leave here on this thread and I will politely thank all who shared their hearts respectfully.

Someone said, "yes, the apostasy happened. I'm pretty sure another apostasy will not happen again." Now I'm really confused. Please help me understand. Okay, maybe I'm mistaken here, but doesn't the Mormon church consider itself the only one true church of God on the earth right now? If that is true, then doesn't it follow that Mormons would consider all the other faiths to be apostasies? Or at least religions like Buddhism, New Age, etc. to be apostasies?

Elgama, so if the Prophet told you to stop preparing and only have 3 days of food in your kitchen at a time, would you do that? It's okay if that's how you feel. I'm not criticizing you; I'm just trying to understand. It sounds a little like everything the Prophet tells you to do is exactly what you do. Am I misunderstanding? Or is this how it is with all Mormons? (And I mean no disrespect for whomever your Prophet is as I don't know who is who. The only prophet I've heard some talk about is Joseph Smith. Is he the one you're talking about?) I can say that the few articles I've read by people (whom I'm guessing are called prophets) sounded like good practical advice. Personally, I'm a little leery of complete obedience to any human being because I've seen abuse in churches before and it really does a lot of spiritual damage to those who trusted. Steve Arterburn wrote a good book on this called Toxic Faith. Sometimes people in leadership roles sin in some bad ways (i.e., the Catholic church).

MSNBC is a propaganda machine, in my opinion. America can use less of that. Actually, I could do without 95% of what is on tv in general. So much sleeze and filth and lying. We own a tv, but usually only watch Glenn Beck, some of Fox News (even then the immodest dress of the info-babes is disgusting), and we mostly use our tv to watch home videos. (Sorry for the thread drift - tv has so much potential to do good, but is currently being misused.)

Thanks for answering, LM. Okay, bear with me as I'm trying to see this. You said, "We figure Joseph Smith was chosen by God to restore Christ's church, as it had fallen into apostacy." What was this apostasy that the church had fallen into and that Joseph Smith took note of? You know that the Protestant Reformation came about due to concerns about the Catholic church. Is this what concerned JS? Or was there something going on within the church in early America that concerned JS? Also, do you know if any of the Founding Fathers of our country or the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Mormon?

ROFLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is so funny! I like it. I think a lot of people fall into all those categories, depending. They just have different descriptions. So do most Mormons think that Skousen is a nut?

Pam, in evangelical circles quite a few parents say they put their kids in public schools so they can be a witness or proselytize. What is happening is that most of those kids are losing their faith. I wonder how many Mormons homeschool their kids because (with the situation as it is right now in public schools), it is getting harder and harder for kids to learn good habits, correct history, and decent morals. Statistically speaking, American children are getting a really awful education in the public schools. I was hoping to hear that most Mormons home school because statistically it is so much better academically and socially, but I guess that most use the public schools. I wish most people of every faith would consider options outside public schooling, but I don't know of any one faith where that is the case.

I do not know how it is in the Mormon church, but elsewhere more and more women are leaving their husbands and children in search of a supposed greater fulfillment. This is very tragic in my mind. I do not mean to drift this thread, so please don't anyone comment on this link, but just read it and you'll be aghast at how so many women have lost touch with their maternal instincts. Too many define "success" as having a job and money. They view kids as objects to own. Pew Helps Explain Why the Right Man Is Getting Harder for Educated Women to Find. - WSJ.com