mel6890

We are all bad, completely and totally depraved, we all deserve to go to hell. We have all turned and rebelled against God. No person is different from others, we all sin, and it is only through Christ and his grace that we can be made righteous in the eyes of God.

Yes, it actually was good enough...until someone decided to ask what i thought of the verse. As i said before, i never would have said anything about what i thought but i was asked. and then i responded to the replies to my post. so if you don't like it that i said anything, why don't you tell that to the person who asked me what i thought of 1 peter 3. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when asked I am for sure not bible bashing, I feel like that comment came out of nowhere. i have absolutely no idea what you are talking about on that one. would you clarify please? With regard to prophets, how do you tell which prophets are of God and which ones aren't? how do actually know which prophets are from God?

obviously i meant spirit prison in the lds sense, I am not arguing with my own bible, but think what you want.

look, i realize that what i believe is not the issue here, and if i wasn't specifically asked what i thought of 1 peter 3, i never would have said anything. I don't know about you, but when i am asked about what i believe, i'm not going to refrain from saying it. Second, I have not made up my mind about this issue if i already knew, i would not have asked. However, i am obviously not lds, but i have been looking a great deal into the church. but despite that, I'm not ignorant. I am a christian and i have grown up with a set of beliefs, so when asked about something (like i was about 1st peter 3) its obviously going to fit with what i believe. It has nothing to do with whether or not i am willing to accept another view of something, I will never take anything by blind faith, nor will accept the views of the mormon church, until my questions are answered. I do seek the truth and i will accept which ever view has more truth in it, but right now, i think there are large holes in your guys' answers, which is why i don't accept it, not that i never will, but those holes need to be filled in first.

Its fuuny, one of my mormon friends just asked me what i thought of this verse after i posted this on the forum so i'm just going copy my answer. also, i found some teachings about this online that might make my explanation make more sense, because i'm definitely not an expert: I don't believe this passage is saying that Jesus literally went and preached to the spirits in some sort of spirit prison immediately after he was crucifies, because, hebrews 9:27 says that “man is destined to die once and after that, face judgement” so, according to this, our destination after death (heaven or hell) is immediately determined. Also, I don't think prison is referring to hell either, because in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 19-31. In which, Hell is described as having a great chasm separating it, so no one can leave, once they are there, and no one can go there who wasn't supposed to. So, in this passage, it says that Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, but in light of the above verses, there is no way that Jesus could go the hell, and the bible is also clear that there is no other option. So, I noticed that it said Jesus Preached to the spirits currently in prison through the spirit, but the verse never says when he actually did. But peter mentions Noah later on, so I think it means that Jesus preached to the spirits through Noah, by the holy spirit while the ark was being built. Obviously, Noah didn't know Jesus by name, but he did know that God promised a messiah and he was waiting and expecting it to happen. (btw, thats how I think people are saved who lived before Christ, by believing and having faith in God's promise of a savior and waiting for him). Also, I think I should note that in order for it to make sense that jesus reached those who lived before him through the holy spirit, I should note that I believe there is one God existing in three different forms (father, son and spirit). so, thats the best answer i can give, i have never heard anyone actually preach on the topic (ironically my church is doing a series on 1st peter and we will get there in a few weeks) But i have talked to some people i know who are very knowledgable about the bible, i didn't just pull this answer out of a hat. here is more info that i found about it online if it will help to clarify what i wrote: This verse is not saying that Christ went and preached to those already in prison or torment. (1) In the account of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man was in torment because he had rejected the word of the Lord as taught by Moses. Lazarus, apparently, had not rejected the word of the Lord. (Luke 16:19-31) (2) The word “prison” which is used in I Peter 3:19 is translated from the Greek word “phulake” {foo-lak-ay’} which means “1) guard, watch 1a) a watching, keeping watch ... 1c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison.” (Thayer) (3) Rather than the term “prison” referring to Paradise, one of the two divisions of “sheol”(the realm of the dead), it would seem more fitting for the “prison” to refer to “tartaroo” or torment; torment being the abode of the wicked dead prior to judgment. (4) When Christ died, He did not go to “tartaroo” or torment, but rather, He went to Paradise. (Luke 23:43) b. The preaching that was done to those who lived during the days of Noah, was done by the Spirit through Noah. (1) “. . . but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached. . .” (1 Peter 3:18-19) (2) Jesus was quickened by the same Spirit who, through Noah, preached to those who lived during the days of Noah. c. Those who had rejected Noah’s message ended up in “prison” or torment; just like the rich man. (vs 19-20; Luke 16:19-31) d. NOTE: Some believe that the prison referred to in 3:19 is referring to the 120 years of waiting while Noah built the ark, having nothing to do with tartaroo or torment. They believe that the “prison” was referring to their state of guilt of sin while the ark was being prepared. C. Because of the suffering of Christ, the unjust living today are saved by baptism. (1 Peter 3:21) 1. During the days of Noah, eight souls were saved by water. Noah and his family obeyed God by building the ark. Water was used to keep the ark afloat. As a result of this, eight souls were saved through the use of water. 2. In the same manner (like figure, antitype) baptism now saves. October 19, 2003 File #: 718 3. There is nothing special in the water of baptism; just as there was nothing special about the waters that flooded the earth. 4. Water saves a person when they obey God's commands. Just as Noah and his family was saved because they obeyed God, people today are also saved when they obey God's command to be baptized. D. Salvation for the unjust through obeying the command to be baptized (Mark 16:16) was made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21) 1. Jesus Christ is in heaven at the right hand of God. (vs 22) 2. All angels, authorities, and powers are subject to Christ. (vs 22)

ok, so i've heard about this spirit prison thing and i went and looked it up on the mormon beliefs, so i know how it works. but i am curious how you reconcile this with biblical teachings, there is no mention of spirit prison, or that there is any way you can be saved after you die, in fact i think its pretty cut and dry jesus=heaven, no jesus=hell. i am confused can you please explain? thanks

1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Yes 4)Yes 5) B, but i don't really know what the creeds are, or at least i don't know it if i do so i think my answer doesn't really count

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my message and point out were i was wrong, I should have taken the time to write my own reply to your message, using the one on the internet did more harm and good. I am truly sorry for the hurtful and judgmental things i said, especially about other denominations, i was wrong. I am definitely not a legalist, in fact, the church i attend is one of the most criticized for being too "culturally liberal" no worries there. :) on the issue of polygamy however, i do still think it is a sin, but i don't think it is anything worth arguing over, i value your opinion as well and i thank you for sharing it with me. Once again, i sincerely apologize if i offended anyone. even over the internet, being rude isn't justified.

Here's the deal, I am a college student with alot of studying and homework to do, I don't have time to go look up all these verses explaining why i think all of those people are in fact adulterer's. so i found a great explanation on the internet that matches my views almost perfectly...i have pasted it below here is the website as well...Here's the Plain Truth About OLD TESTAMENT POLYGAMY Abraham Was NOT a Polygamist Many people recall at once a few Old Testament instances of plural wives, and assume that God sanctioned polygamy. That assumption is absolutely false! God has never approved, nor made lawful, more than one living wife for any man. Quite the contrary, He FORBADE IT, even to the kings of Israel, and that by written STATUTE! Abraham was not a polygamist. While Sarah, his wife, lived, he never married any other woman. Abraham had an illegitimate son by Hagar. But that was an adulterous SIN. Although it renders it nonetheless a SIN, I think we can recognize extenuating circumstances. Sarah was barren. For a wife in ancient times to go childless was felt to be a disgrace. It was Sarah, Abraham's own wife, who brought to Abraham her servant handmaid, asking him to produce a child for Sarah by this servant woman. We can imagine Hagar to have been attractive, and not necessarily lacking in voluptuous charms simply because she was a servant. That temptation, under these circumstances, at Sarah's instigation, might have been great. Certainly the very invitation coming from Sarah would have made it harder to resist. Abraham was a strong man. But this temptation appears to have been stronger. All humans have sinned. Abraham was human. Abraham lied when he twice claimed Sarah was his sister, fearing for his own life. Abraham was not without sin. But neither this adultery, nor the two lies, were sins of the nature that springs from a wrong attitude of mind or heart. Abraham, in his heart, was always OBEDIENT to GOD. There was no spirit of hostility or rebellion. These sins were of the FLESH, under temptation -- not malicious or rebellious sins of the heart. But they were SINS! God forgave Abraham's sins of spiritual weakness, committed under heavy temptation. Nevertheless, we all must REAP what we sow -- even though God forgives our sins upon repentance. God refused to approve this adulterous act of Abraham. He rejected the illegitimate son, Ishmael, from the birthright. This transgression produced jealousy between the women. It resulted in trouble, controversy, suffering. How many realize that even the Arab-Jewish strife over Palestine, today, was brought on by this very THREE-CORNERED TRIANGLE, and the ensuing jealousy of the two women, Sarah and Hagar, over the one man, Abraham? The Jews are the children of Sarah, through Isaac, born later by a miracle. The Arabs are the children of Ishmael. In Genesis 21:8-21 is the record of Hagar's departure from Sarah and Abraham. God ordered Abraham to send away the concubine Hagar and her son, and Abraham obeyed. This was at the time Isaac was weaned. Abraham had, after this, no more relations with Hagar, or his other concubine, Susanna, who is mentioned in the ancient Austrian Chronicle -- see Genesis 25:6 where you will read that Abraham's concubines' sons were sent away. Sarah's death is recorded in Genesis 23:1-2. It was after that (Gen. 25), that Abraham married Keturah. This, of course, was a perfectly legal marriage. There was no polygamy -- no divorce. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are termed, in both Old and New Testaments, "the Fathers." Jesus Christ came to confirm the PROMISES made to "the Fathers." The unconditional promises God made to Abraham were repeated to both Isaac and Jacob. Isaac Had Only One Wife Isaac was no polygamist! There is no mention whatever of any wife for Isaac other than Rebekah. There is no mention of any concubines, or of any act of adultery. In Old Testament types Abraham is the human type of God the Father. He is called, in the human sense, the father of the faithful. In this same system of types, Isaac is the type of Christ, the Son of God. And Isaac's wife, Rebekah, is the type of the CHURCH, which is to marry Christ. Did you ever realize this type similarity? Just as Rebekah had to become the affianced bride of Isaac, and in a sense come to LOVE HIM, before she ever saw him -- while he was still off in another land, so must we in God's true CHURCH come to LOVE CHRIST, who is in a far country -- heaven -- without ever having seen Him! Now CHRIST will never have but the ONE WIFE. And, Isaac, being a type of Christ, had only one wife. Apparently Isaac was spotless from sins of lust or sex. Isaac's wife, Rebekah, like her mother-in-law, Sarah, was barren. But Isaac did not take things into his own hands and have children by her handmaids, or by concubines. Neither did Rebekah do as Sarah had done, and resort to bringing a servant girl to Isaac to produce a son for Rebekah in this proxy manner. Instead of using human reason, taking things into his own hands, Isaac TRUSTED GOD! "And Isaac entreated the Eternal for his wife, because she was barren: and the Eternal was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived," (Gen. 25:21). If only we could learn to TRUST GOD to work out our problems! JACOB: One Wife After Conversion Jacob is a name that means "Supplanter." It was God's will that Jacob receive the birthright instead of his older brother Esau. But in his earlier life Jacob did not rely on God. He took the matter in his own hand, aided and abetted by his mother. As he stole the Birthright from Esau by unfair means, and received Isaac's blessing by a lying deception, so his father-in-law, Laban, deceived Jacob. Laban supplanted Jacob's promised and loved wife, Rachel, with his elder daughter Leah. Leah was foisted on Jacob by fraud. According to God's marriage laws, Jacob could have rejected her -- put her away as soon he discovered the deception. In that event, he would never have been truly married to Leah -- GOD would not have bound them as one flesh. But when Jacob accepted her as his wife, she became his ONLY true wife, in God's sight, as long as they both live! But Jacob was not yet converted. He leaned to his own understanding. He did not seek wisdom from God, nor did he seek to OBEY God. He did what seemed right to him, in his own selfish interest. So Jacob lived in polygamy with both wives, and also had children by their two personal maids. But you read of Jacob's conversion in Genesis 32:24-30. He then put idolatry out of his household (Gen. 35:2-4). God appeared to him, changed his name to ISRAEL ("Overcomer," or "Prevailer with God"), and reconfirmed the PROMISES. Then God took Rachel, his second wife (Gen. 35:19), leaving only his first and true wife Leah. So, following his conversion, Jacob had but his one original wife. Jacob had repented. He lived no more in polygamy after his conversion. A Worldly Custom It is of course true that it was a worldly custom, in patriarchal times, and in the days of the Kingdom of Israel, for kings and wealthy men to take plural wives. A harem was one of the symbols of royalty. But God FORBADE polygamy for the kings of Israel. Here is God's LAW respecting polygamy by Israel's kings: "When thou art come unto the land which the Eternal thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me. . . . Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away" (Deut. 17:14, 17). It is spoken of as "THIS LAW" in verses 18 and 19. Israel's first king, Saul, had plural wives. But in this he disobeyed God and followed the custom of the kings of the worldly nations around Israel. It was SIN. It was not approved by God. David REPENTED of Polygamy David had several wives. But after his tremendous sin of taking Bathsheba and having her husband murdered, David repented, in real heart-rending repentance. And he never repeated the sin. Very few seem to realize what actually happened. See II Samuel 12:9-12. "Now therefore," said God (verse 10), "the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised ME, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife." Notice, David despised GOD -- not merely the commandment of God, as in verse 9, but also the very Person of God! He did it by taking this woman as his wife. Therefore the sword was never to depart from his HOUSE. The HOUSE OF DAVID, at that time consisted solely of these plural WIVES, and his children. This was a tremendous, super SIN. God was meting out tremendous super punishment. Now notice the next verse: "Thus saith the Eternal, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house. . . ." His own house included his wives and children. What evil? God has just said the sword will now come upon his house -- his family. God continues: ". . . and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun." Notice -- this was to be done in the sight of THIS sun � in broad daylight. God continues: "For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.� The Septuagint Version translates it "this sun" here, as in the preceding verse. This was done publicly by David�s own son Absalom, II Samuel 16:21-22. David repented. "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Eternal" (I Samuel 12:13). You will read of David's private prayer of repentance to God in the 51st Psalm -- the prayer of a really broken and contrite heart. It was real repentance. David turned from polygamy. The next words in this text in II Samuel 12 are: "And Nathan said unto David, The Eternal also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." However, the son to be born of this adultery was to die. Even Concubines Put Away Do you see what God did? He meted out to David a tremendous punishment -- God took all his wives, leaving Bathsheba only. With David's first and only legitimate wife, Michal, probably dead (see II Sam. 6:23), God also had cleared the way for Bathsheba to become the legal wife of David. Apparently this was done, that she might be the mother of Solomon, through whom God was to keep His unconditional, dynastic, promise to David -- a forefather of Jesus Christ -- and a prophet used in writing the Bible. After this David was away from Jerusalem. But, returning, there were ten concubines (his former harem). Here is what David did with them: "And David came to his house at Jerusalem; and the king took the ten women his concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in ward, and fed them, but went not in unto them. So they were shut up unto the day of their death, living in widowhood" (II Sam. 20:3). Just as David kept the ten concubines "in widowhood" -- that is, he had no relations with them, for they had been defiled by his son Absalom. David had truly repented. He practiced polygamy NO MORE! When David was becoming old, he went "fully after the Eternal" (I Kings 11:6). He was "a man after God's own heart," because his heart was right. He did repent. He had been a warrior. In his younger life he went after many women. He had sown his "wild oats." BUT HE REPENTED! His heart turned to GOD. His life's race ENDED in victory -- he "went fully after the Eternal." It is not the one who starts out with the biggest burst of speed, but the one who finishes first at the END of the race who wins it. His son, Solomon, started out righteously, unselfishly, relying on God. But, "when Solomon was old," he had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines -- it must have been a record harem. And his wives turned away his heart from God, and to their idols. It was SIN! Regarding it, God's Word says: "Solomon did evil in the sight of the Eternal" (I Kings 11:6). There was polygamy in ancient Israel. But it was SIN! God condemned it -- He never condoned or sanctioned it. They reaped what they sowed. What GOD Joins in Marriage Also Israelites practiced what God had forbidden -- divorce and remarriage. On this, Jesus said: "Moses [not God] because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery" (Mat. 19:8-9). GOD has never legalized divorce and remarriage. It is not allowable today. Jesus said, in this same connection: "Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female?" Notice, Jesus was dating this from the BEGINNING. And God never changes! "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?" Notice, a man shall cleave to his WIFE -- not wives. And they TWO -- not he and several wives -- shall be one flesh. "What therefore GOD hath joined together, let not man put asunder" (Mat. 19:4-6). It is what GOD joins together. That is the definition of MARRIAGE. God does not join together one man with plural women! Any woman a man may "marry" according to man's codes, in addition to the wife GOD joined him to, is NOT his wife, so long as his real wife lives. Any additional women, whether in polygamy, or by divorce one at a time, is plain ADULTERY! GOD never joins the second, let alone the additional "wives." They are NOT truly wives -- they are adulteresses, and the man becomes an adulterer. THIS BREAKS GOD'S LAW. IT IS SIN. Jesus thus put us straight on monogamous marriage. God made ONE wife for Adam -- not a harem! He started the human family out as He ordained they should go -- a family of ONE man and ONE wife. And, remember, God gave this absolute command regarding future kings of Israel -- telling them they must not do as the pagan nations around them (whose kings had their harems): "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself!" Saul, Israel's first king, DISOBEYED that command. He let demons take hold of him. God deposed him, and put David in his place. David started out in polygamy, but God punished him. HE REPENTED thoroughly, and he finished his reign with his only living wife. Solomon finished his life in polygamy and idolatry -- and God, in punishment, rent the KINGDOM away from his son, Rehoboam. GOD DID NOT CONDONE POLYGAMY! He PUNISHED those who practiced it! It was always SIN! It is SIN today! Hosea and other prophets constantly dwell upon the thought of monogamous marriage as being a symbol of the union of God and His people, and denounce idolatry as unfaithfulness to this spiritual marriage tie. Christ to Marry ONE Church The marriage relationship, in the New Testament, is the type of the relationship between Christ and God's Church. The worldly churches are MANY. Those who claim the NAME Christian -- Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox Catholic, hundreds of Protestant churches -- all claim to be, combined, the Church which Christ started. They seem to believe, somehow, that when Christ returns to earth to marry His CHURCH, that Jesus Christ will be a POLYGAMIST -- that He will marry HUNDREDS of churches -- have HUNDREDS of WIVES! THEY ARE WRONG! Jesus Christ will marry but ONE Church -- the True Church of GOD -- and all these worldly churches will be on the outside looking in! Listen! "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and HIS WIFE [not wives] hath made herself ready" (Rev. 19:7). One of the qualifications for a Minister in GOD'S Church is that he have only ONE wife! No POLYGAMIST may be a Minister of Jesus Christ in His True Church! Here it is: "A bishop [elder, overseer, preacher, minister] must be blameless, the husband of ONE wife" (I Tim. 3:2). Likewise, a man may not even be a deacon if he has more than one wife (verse 12). Let us, then, understand it once and for all! Polygamy is a SIN. God condemns it! It is ADULTERY! IT HAS NEVER BEEN APPROVED OR CONDONED BY GOD AT ANY TIME, IN PATRIARCHAL DAYS -- IN OLD TESTAMENT TIMES -- OR NOW, TODAY! Return to Family Index.

um, i should have taken my last answer a little bit farther. The bible, clearly defines marriage to between one man and one woman, i'm not gonna point out where or why, because everyone uses that argument against gay marriage. It is a covenant taken before God and they become one flesh, as i said before. I'm not sure on this but i believe that if a man were to try to marry another woman, God would not honor the covenant since he has already "become one" with another woman. That being said, if a man with multiple wives came into my church, i would consider it adultery, and i wouldn't see it as divorce if he were to leave them, at least in the eyes of God, i am not talking about marriage in society. However, i would not condemn him or judge him. I do not have a church and i am rather in experienced in dealing with others' sin so i don't know exactly how i would deal with it. But, we are all sinners so they would be welcome

oops...sorry about that, i am actually nondenominational christian, and i didn't mean to claim i was mormon, I'm not sure how i managed that one, but I fixed it. thanks for pointing out my mistake =D. ok now on to the topic, i probably should have expanded on my answer to avoid confusion. I would always welcome anyone into my church no matter what they have done because i know that in the eyes of God we are all equally sinful. I define polygamy as a sin because i think God was very clear on the parameters of marriage and anything outside of that is a sin. in Genesis, God created Eve to be Adam's Helper and so he didn't have to be alone. And he essentially conducted the first marriage ceremony right there in the garden of eden. It says in Genesis 2:24-25 "therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." also, 1st Corinthians 7:4 says, “For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.” A married man does not own his body, but rather he is a steward of his body that belongs to his bride and his God." on that note, I think any thing that takes away from the oneness between one man and one woman in marriage is a sin. say a man has five wives, his attention is split among all of them so each one is only getting 1/5 of the emotional, physical and spiritual support she deserves. thats my very quick answer, if you want me to elaborate on or clarify anything let me know i'd be happy to, i usually only write what i absolutely have to to get my point across (thats my math background =D)

ok whats the deal with g-d, i've never seen that before??? you know the spelling god with a hyphen

Number one definitely, i would treat it like any other sin

I would recommend watching this sermon on the trinity, it helped to clear up some of my misunderstandings and i think it will answer most of your questions :) Mars Hill Church | Doctrine | Trinity: God Is

everyone