jiminycricket

Thanks Anon. What would that number be / where can I find it?

Hello all, long time no see... good to be back among my forum friends... I have a request. I need help finding the name and mailing address of my Area Authority Seventy or Area President (can't remember which title is correct nowadays). I live just outside Charlotte, NC. I've scoured the church websites and the best I've come up with is the general Church Headquarters address (in the Church Newsroom). I suppose a request like that deserves some explanation. The bottom line is this: I have a personal spiritual health concern, something I am anxious to take care of. Unfortunately, the kind of concern (a very delicate matter implicating other members in the area) is such that it would be very uncomfortable and perhaps even inappropriate to address the issue with ward or stake leaders. So, I'm trying to write a private letter to my Area Authority Seventy for advice and/or to take care of the matter. I would just ask my local leaders for the name and address, but rumors have already started to swirl (I know for a fact they've already reached my bishop by way of my previous bishop who heard from a friend of mine) so if I were to ask them I'm sure they would ask why I needed it, and even if I dodged the question I think they would suspect, and probably believe the situation is worse than it is. I realize that I should trust my leaders more, but I also know myself well enough to know that if I don't find some way to take care of this without involving them it will take me a long time to reach the level of trust and courage I'd need in order to talk to them, and by that time the collateral damage spiritually speaking would be considerable in both breadth and depth. I would be very grateful to anyone who could provide the information or point me in the right direction. Jimmy C PS - If providing the information itself, it might be best to PM me instead of posting a public reply, in the interest of the privacy of the Seventy.

I had a similar experience on my mission. I served in the West Indies mission, Dutch speaking... which is to say, I served my mission in Suriname. They have an interesting religious landscape down there - about 1/3 Christian (of various denominations), about 1/3 Muslim, and about 1/3 Hindu. The effort to peacefully coexist among so much religious diversity and in such a small space bred a coping strategy I call "reverse-tolerance". People over-simplify and/or even adjust their own beliefs in order to find common ground with others. They end up being so "tolerant" that if you listen to the inter-faith dialogue, the only logical conclusion to draw is that they're either lying in order to make nice, or they don't think it makes any difference at all what religious beliefs they subscribe to. As missionaries, the attitude we often got from people was, "Why change religions?" The two phrases we grew to hate were, "There is but one God," and, "We all worship the same God." Pretty words, but utterly false. Religions are organized (in theory if not in fact) to worship God. To worship is to honor. The most meaningful way anyone can honor another is to emulate them -- to seek to be like them. Emulation is the truest form of worship. If, then, the point of religion is emulation of God (and I assert that it is), then it must follow that in order for a religion to serve its purpose it must teach the true character of God. If it does not, it teaches neither knowledge of God nor worship of Him, for what defines a being but the collection of characteristics and attibutes that describe him? Being, then, that it is not the true God they serve, it must either be a false god or a god of their own creating; therefore, there are many gods, but only one true and living God, many ways to worship but only one true form, many religions but only one true religion. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that religion, teaches that form of worship, and worships that God. The number of religions in the world is no more than the number of differing ideas about the character of God. It could be and probably is less, since many people have their own idea of His character which doesn't conform to any systematized religion. The beauty of it is that I learned all of this as I taught it to a young man who was then Hindu.

If my understanding is correct, Institute classes used to be for ages 18-30 only (officially), but the Church recently opened it up to everyone. I'm not 100% certain of that, but I know someone who would be! I'll contact my local CES Director and let you know what he says :) Jiminy

I just want to say again, Rich, that I think you're handling this with flying colors. It sounds like you've got things progressing in the right direction. It's good that the boy has been brought to (some form or fraction of) justice, that you are not encouraging your daughter's decision to quit counseling, that you're finding new friends, and most of all that you're getting yourself some counseling. I assume/hope her mom is getting counseling too. I do want to give you a some thoughts on this situation (food for thought, if nothing else): It's probably not good that she quit counseling so suddenly and against the advice of her counselor, but maybe there's a bright side. Maybe it means she felt empowered by getting the boy prosecuted, like she's in control of her life again, and she's just taking that control out for a spin. I think it's important that you validate the empowerment she feels... that you make it clear to her that you approve of her making her own decision about this, you're just concerned that it might be too early, and she might not be completely and securely healed. In any case, I don't think it would be wise to push her to go back. If you're right and she isn't really ready to stop counseling then the time will come when the pain will return. What you might be able to do now is prepare her for that. You might imagine how disappointing that day would be for her, especially if this is the first time she's felt that she was out of the woods. Try to help her see it coming. Even if you can only plant the seed in her mind, or partially convince her that that day might come, so that she will be less surprised by it, I think you will have done her a great service. Be watchful for signs that the pain is returning, and if she doesn't come to you, be available for her and love her until she opens up to you. In a quiet moment when she seems lost in thought and low, pull her into your arms and hold her and let her be the one to break the silence, even if she doesn't. Listen until she wants you to speak, even if you're listening to feelings rather than words. Also, make sure, by your actions and your words, that when that day comes she will know that she can come to you without getting an "I told you so" type of response. Then, when she does open up to you, spend some time comforting her first, then remind her of how much counseling helped when she felt this way before and ask her if she wants to go to counseling. (I wouldn't ask if she wants to go "back" to counseling or if she wants to go to counseling "again", because that might have some of the "I told you so" effect.) If she says no, accept it and be patient. The idea is to empower her -- make sure she knows she's still in control, and you're just there to help. She'll come around in her time. Jimmy C

I've contacted one of our group leaders. She said your bishop or stake president could request a group through LDS-FS or you could call LDS-FS and ask about a group. Groups are set up as needed and LDS-FS has the most direct contact with groups and leaders. Here is the contact info for the New York LDS-FS agency (saw that you're from NY on your public profile, looked this info up on the LDS-FS website): LDS Family Services NY New York Agency 217 East 87th Street, 3rd Floor New York, NY 10128 PH: 212-876-7427 FAX: 212-876-1214 God bless, Jiminy PS - Have you checked online for a group in your area? If you haven't, follow this link to do so.

Excellent question, SS. I'll ask around and get back to you. Oh, but FYI, most of them are done at a stake level I believe. At least, that's how it is here - it's put on by LDS Family Services, one group per stake. But still I'll find out how you can get one going in your area. Jim

I agree with everything you've said here, LM. Thanks for your feedback. Just a couple of things that apparently I should clarify about my meaning in my last post. First and foremost, advice from those who've been through similar experiences is certainly invaluable to and should be taken very seriously by people like Richard who find themselves in such awful situations. I didn't intend to demean their advice. I tried to make that clear, and even dwelled on that point a good bit just to solidify the point, but it seems that might not have been enough. That brings me to the other point of clarification: While survivors like Elph and Rachelle are usually going to be some of the best resources for folks like Rich, their opinions and advice are not authoritative in the sense that they are not in any way binding upon Richard. What they say is not necessarily the right way for him or for his daughter, much less the only right way. He is not, nor should he feel obligated to follow their advice, or even agree with them. When they offer their advice, it should be treated by both parties as just that: an offer. The acknowledgement I'm hoping for here is that not only do so many specifics of the situations vary among cases, but the people involved are going to vary widely in their physical, emotional, spiritual and mental characteristics, beyond just symptoms, and that just like with physical injury, as the severity of trauma increases, so does the need for a tailored, personalized response. So even if they all had the same symptoms, they should be treated according to their individual needs. Even a bell curve acknowledges outliers. In fact, in a normal distribution bell curve, almost one-third of the population could be considered outliers. Who can say whether Richard's daughter is an outlier? That's the problem with generalized data - you can never have enough of it to answer specific questions. The bottom line is, just because it would need to be handled a particular way for one person doesn't mean that holds true for the next. Hopefully this clarifies my meaning a little. Thanks again, Jim

Fair enough. You might want to consider, though, that the point of communication is to convey meaning, and part of that meaning is tone, and tone is a matter of perception. Communication itself is in fact greatly about perception. You intend to be assertive, which is fine, but if your brand of assertive is consistently percieved as harsh, then for all intents and purposes, your message is harsh, not assertive, because that is the message your audience hears. But then, you said you're working on it, so I don't know why I'm harping on it :) Understandable. Bit of a jump perhaps, from "he wrote very little about his daughter this time" to "he's not concerned enough about his daughter", but understandable nonetheless. Goes back to what I was saying about communication... but I've said enough about that. You're already working on it.Oh, and... you're welcome. But that's just it -- she didn't give any information. No help or advice or support for Richard at all. The point of her post actually seemed to be, "We should all be angry at Richard." Can I understand why she feels that way, given her history and the information and assumptions she was working from at the time? Sure. But, to quote my favorite TV show (House), that "doesn't make your [anger/harshness] right or even okay. It's much simpler than that. It's just plain wrong." Indignation is only righteous when someone is knowingly, willfully violating others for their own gain, and even then most of the time we aren't justified in our anger because of our own sinfulness. I didn't intentionally psychoanalyze Rachelle, and if you're reading, Rachelle, and you were offended by what I said I apologize. As I said in the post, that was just an instinct... a reaction... a thought that crossed my mind as I responded to your post, not necessarily anywhere near on base. I'm going to address an issue that needs to be addressed, but there isn't a delicate way to do it that I can think of, so bear with me.There is an opinion that seems to be rampant in this thread that because some have been through generally similar situations in their lives, their opinions and advice are authoritative. I'm sorry, but that's not true. Every situation is different and every individual is different. The fact of the matter is, you haven't been there. You are only in that way better prepared to empathize with the daughter than the rest of us are, and able to offer insights the might apply in their situation. Now, is your input probably going to be of greater worth, to some degree, than that of others who haven't been through even generally similar experiences? In general, most of the time it probably will, yes. Don't go thinking I don't value your contribution. I do - I appreciate it very much. It is sorely needed, I'm sure. But please don't lash out at Richard if he decides not to take your advice, don't belittle the advice and thoughts the rest of us give, or think that your advice is always superior. And please do not belittle our ability to empathize. After all, the Savior was never violated in that way, and He can empathize with her better than any of us. Let me show you that there is a flaw in this point. You outlined Richard's story, changing the characters around so that we could empathize with your perspective. But the hypothetical story you outlined doesn't quite line up with the situation here -- None of us have seen for ourselves what Richard has or hasn't done about the situation, and up until recently he hadn't told us what he has and hasn't done. And it turns out, now that he has enlightened us, that he has been taking action, so that part of your story becomes inapplicable as well.You read the OP, assumed that he hadn't done anything, or at least that he hadn't done what you told him to, and never looked back. That is the real cause of your anger and frustration. Is it understandable? Yes. Because of the prism of your own experiences, through which you view the situation. Try to step outside of that prism. View their story and identity as uniquely their own, having little to do with your own. Let's.Jim

First, a word to Elphie (btw, love the screen name -- GREAT musical): I'd just like to say as I should have said before, that like AppleP, I appreciate your contributions and concern for Rich and his daughter, and I understand the emotional nature this kind of issue has for you. And I appreciate the humility you've shown and your effort to control your frustration. I can see where you've made that effort. Second, to AppleP, regarding this point: I agree with you; the Lord does take good care of those who, despite personally disagreeing with it, heed the counsel of His servants. However, that is a delicate line to tow, especially in such critical situations. Leaders do sometimes give faulty counsel (the only exceptions being the prophet and the collective Quorum of the Twelve Apostles), and in those cases, whether God intercedes to make things right or not, we come out better by obtaining better counsel to follow. Going to a priesthood leader for counsel does not release us from our obligation to study it out in our own minds and seek God's counsel. There is a danger of leaning too much upon the arm of flesh, of fearing man more than God, and we can easily forget that it is our responsibility to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, relying wholly upon the merits of Him who is mighty to save (and none else). Simply disagreeing is entirely different from feeling that the counsel given is not actually God's will. Obedience is essential to our progression, but it is obedience to God, not obedience to local church leaders. In situations as serious as this, it is extremely important that everything is handled the right way, which, I observe, is not necessarily the bishop's way or the individual's way. Rich needs a confirmation from God that he is on the right path. Simply going on the bishop's word is not enough in this case. Rachelle, Elphaba has already shown humility and good will in acknowledging that parts of her posts were harsher than she feels is right, and she wants to correct that. Perhaps you should ask yourself why you want to justify such harshness. Your post implies that you have had to deal with similar abuses. I'm sorry you've gone through such horrible things. But I think you should consider the fact that due to your history, it might be you who sees this situation through a prism. To be honest, my instinct suggests that this might be a case of transference - that maybe a part of you feels that a third party is somehow culpable for another's having abused you, and you see that person in Rich. I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just offering it as a thought. Whatever the case, you should see that Richard is not to blame for his daughter's agony. Or at very least, not in such a way that he ought to be dealt with harshly. Any contributions he may have made to his daughter's suffering were likely minimal, not due to any kind of gross negligence, and certainly not intentional. He is clearly doing the best he can in the circumstances in which he's found himself. Thank you, Rich, for coming out with this. I've thought several times to myself, "I don't see where Richard has said that he hasn't done or tried to do anything... I guess it has something to do with the previous thread [which I confess I haven't yet bothered to read]." Sounds to me like you're doing a good job. Jim

Elph I think I understand the line you're trying to walk here -- you're frustrated for the daughter's sake because Richard didn't act on the advice he got last time, and you're trying to control that frustration and just make sure get through to him this time -- but there's a tone woven through parts of your posts that comes across overly harshly, and I think that's what people are reacting to. It might help if you could lighten your tone a bit - just remember when you post that lots of times it's not just a matter of knowing what to do, it's being collected enough to do it, and that can be very difficult. He's been traumatized too, afterall. I can only imagine what a confusing time that would be for a parent. I'm sure he already feels like he's in way over his head. Jiminy PS - He did say she'd been in counseling for four weeks, but he didn't say she was completely healed, he said she was "doing better". That is very plausible.

These are fantastic ideas. Especially doing little things to brighten your daughter's day. I don't have the first-hand experience that many of the other posters have, but I could see that helping her in a major way. She probably needs as many reasons as you can give her to smile and enjoy her life and just be happy. Of course, this is good advice for every parent out there, but particularly for parents of children in difficult situations like this. And you don't want her or her siblings to feel like she's being singled out for special treatment. InnerGold is right, it needs to be genuine and natural, and you can't forget to do just as much for your other kids (for her sake and theirs). Plus, renewing your relationship with your kids and making good times with them might fill the void of your broken friendship. The Temple is great advice, too. Give ear to these suggestions InnerGold gave you, Richard. I'd bet you'll find it goes a long way in healing things. Jiminy

Richard, I'm sorry you and your family, especially your daughter, are going through this. In reading about your situation, a couple of thoughts came to my mind. I hope they help. The boy's parents are also, as I'm sure you realize, in a very difficult position. They are probably mortified by and in deep pain over what their son has done and what he has put your daughter and others through. It sounds like they are straddling the denial and anger stages in coping with the situation. They're just looking for someone to share their son's blame and what they perceive to be their blame in all of this. Be patient with them. It might take some time, but they'll pass through the anger stage and move on through the rest of the stages of coping. For my money, the bargaining stage would probably be the best time to let them know you'd still like to be friends. Probably best to steer clear of them until then, and they'll need some friends when they get to the depression stage. (Without going into too much detail, the 5 stages of coping with tragedy are, in order, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance). Another very important thing to consider is how your daughter might feel about you being friends with them, especially if the boy who molested her is going to be around. It might not be a very good idea for you to spend time with them until she has forgiven them, or it could make her feel distant from you and even more alone than she probably already feels. I pray for you and your family, and your friends. Jiminy

Um... oops. I mentioned something earlier, but forgot to develop the point. "Those kinds of habits can be very disorienting, discouraging, demeaning and demoralizing. It can quickly become all you can do to keep your head above water." It is entirely common for doubt to follow this kind of sin. You need to realize that it is the addiction to sin that has left you disoriented and vulnerable to doubt. That doubt has stripped you of hope, and is eating away at your morals and your conviction of your own worth. This is the devil's attempt to solidify and use the foothold he has attained in your life to his full advantage against you. It is another of his flaxen cords turning to chains. You can halt that transformation if, amid all the inner turmoil you feel, you are aware of his plot, refuse his half-truth -coated, comfortable lies, and diligently maintain your hope. You have the power to recognize truth, and the Savior has the power to save you from your sins. Be patient. Don't give up. If you hang in there, it will happen. A few quotes that help me get through the tough times: Winston Churchill was once invited to speak to an elementary school class. He came, and when it was time for him to speak, he stood up and said, "Never, never, never give up." And sat back down. "Things will work out. Keep trying. Be believing. Be happy. Don't get discouraged. Things will work out." - President Gordon B. Hinckley, Prophet, Seer, and Revelator "Never get discouraged. If I was sunk in the lowest pit of Nova Scotia, with the Rocky Mountains piled on top of me, I would not be discouraged. I would hang on, exercise faith, and keep up good courage, and I would come out on top." - The Prophet Joseph Smith (to George A. Smith) Jiminy

Islander, check the date on the OP again. Brand new thread. JC