prisonchaplain

Many LDS are conservative. I tend to be, as well. So are Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens. Lately, Shapiro, who is an orthodox Jew, and Owens, a Christian, have been at serious odds. Owens works for the Daily Wire (Shapiro owns a part of the outlet). She's been vaguely critical of Israel's response to the Hamas attack. When Shapiro publicly labeled her response disgusting, she responded by quoting the New Testament--saying that God blesses peacemakers and that she could not serve both God and money. Shapiro responded that if she felt that taking money from the Daily Wire was coming between her and God then she was welcome to quit. She responded to that by saying that she was quoting the Bible, and that the Bible was not about Shapiro. Some even suggested that Shapiro was persecuting her for citing the New Testament.
While I don't judge people's souls, I feel safe in guessing at their political intent. My sense is that Owen's quoting from the New Testament was an intentionally passive-aggressive slam at Shapiro. Further, her stated ignorance of any context Shapiro might have for context, as well as her surprise at learning Shapiro wasn't happy with her appear feigned. Owens is incredibly smart. I suspect that she is an America-first isolationist. It's her prerogative, but the fake confusion on her part doesn't engender any sympathy from me. 

Many LDS are conservative. I tend to be, as well. So are Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens. Lately, Shapiro, who is an orthodox Jew, and Owens, a Christian, have been at serious odds. Owens works for the Daily Wire (Shapiro owns a part of the outlet). She's been vaguely critical of Israel's response to the Hamas attack. When Shapiro publicly labeled her response disgusting, she responded by quoting the New Testament--saying that God blesses peacemakers and that she could not serve both God and money. Shapiro responded that if she felt that taking money from the Daily Wire was coming between her and God then she was welcome to quit. She responded to that by saying that she was quoting the Bible, and that the Bible was not about Shapiro. Some even suggested that Shapiro was persecuting her for citing the New Testament.
While I don't judge people's souls, I feel safe in guessing at their political intent. My sense is that Owen's quoting from the New Testament was an intentionally passive-aggressive slam at Shapiro. Further, her stated ignorance of any context Shapiro might have for context, as well as her surprise at learning Shapiro wasn't happy with her appear feigned. Owens is incredibly smart. I suspect that she is an America-first isolationist. It's her prerogative, but the fake confusion on her part doesn't engender any sympathy from me. 

I can meet you half way. Regardless of how much Heavenly Father forgives us, we need JAG. 😌

I can meet you half way. Regardless of how much Heavenly Father forgives us, we need JAG. 😌

In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉

This is great news! It looks like I can get rid of the sin tracker and that I won't need JAG

Actually, based upon the teachings of both of our churches, this is proof that God is. 😉

This is the gist of the Replacement Theology argument: The Jewish people broke the "If my people..." conditions and so inherited the "If my people do not ..." warnings. Thus, God replaced the Jews with the Christian church. 
My difficulty with this approach is that we have all failed God. Jesus forgives 70X7. The cycle throughout the Old Testament was of sin (whoring after false gods--not just corrupt Judaism, but full-on Paganism), repentance, forgiveness, blessing, and gradual drifting away. Every time they came back, God forgave them. His covenant remains.
Every time I repent, likewise, God embraces his prodigal son. We need the Old Testament largely because it reminds us that as undependable as we are, God remains true to His word.

I've got a witness!

hmm, based on my age, life expectancy and frequency of sin I think I'd better cut back a bit on the slothfulness and gluttony for a while, I’m getting a bit too close to 70 X 7. It looks like I can safely afford to start being more wrathful and envious. If I can get @Just_A_Guy to represent me at the crucial moment, maybe I won't even need to cut back on the sloth.

This is the gist of the Replacement Theology argument: The Jewish people broke the "If my people..." conditions and so inherited the "If my people do not ..." warnings. Thus, God replaced the Jews with the Christian church. 
My difficulty with this approach is that we have all failed God. Jesus forgives 70X7. The cycle throughout the Old Testament was of sin (whoring after false gods--not just corrupt Judaism, but full-on Paganism), repentance, forgiveness, blessing, and gradual drifting away. Every time they came back, God forgave them. His covenant remains.
Every time I repent, likewise, God embraces his prodigal son. We need the Old Testament largely because it reminds us that as undependable as we are, God remains true to His word.

@prisonchaplain I think as long as we have people on here like @Carborendum and @LDSGatorperhaps you could consider doubling your preaching or using the "extra strength" version.

You didn't say, "Can I get an Amen?" so I didn't take it that way  

This is the gist of the Replacement Theology argument: The Jewish people broke the "If my people..." conditions and so inherited the "If my people do not ..." warnings. Thus, God replaced the Jews with the Christian church. 
My difficulty with this approach is that we have all failed God. Jesus forgives 70X7. The cycle throughout the Old Testament was of sin (whoring after false gods--not just corrupt Judaism, but full-on Paganism), repentance, forgiveness, blessing, and gradual drifting away. Every time they came back, God forgave them. His covenant remains.
Every time I repent, likewise, God embraces his prodigal son. We need the Old Testament largely because it reminds us that as undependable as we are, God remains true to His word.

I couldn't do what I do unless I believed in free will--even very late in the game (of life). "Whosoever will may come." All who are hungry or thirsty or both are welcome. Death bed conversions are real. The thief on the cross was real. The prodigal son--was all of us. 
Perhaps the greatest evidence of free will is Judas. Jesus knew this disciple would betray him. Jesus even said it would have been better for him if he had never been born. So, where's the free will? Jesus still chose him. Jesus still washed his feet. Jesus suffered and died so that folks like him could repent. Jesus may have known that Judas would not repent, but the invitation and possiblity was always there. 
There are secular scholars who argue that God's foreknowledge negates free will. I disagree. Often, we know what our children will do. We recognize their patterns (often because we did likewise at their age). Nevertheless, we let them make their mistakes. Most of the time we see the errors well in advance. Once in a while they surprise us and don't do what we fear they will.
Regardless, the mistakes or wise choices are theirs. God, being all-knowing, is always correct in what He knows. Nevertheless, the choices are ours. We are free.
BTW, is free will not core to LDS teaching. My understanding is that free agency is even stronger (more advanced) than free will, and that it is crucial to LDS theology. 

I couldn't do what I do unless I believed in free will--even very late in the game (of life). "Whosoever will may come." All who are hungry or thirsty or both are welcome. Death bed conversions are real. The thief on the cross was real. The prodigal son--was all of us. 
Perhaps the greatest evidence of free will is Judas. Jesus knew this disciple would betray him. Jesus even said it would have been better for him if he had never been born. So, where's the free will? Jesus still chose him. Jesus still washed his feet. Jesus suffered and died so that folks like him could repent. Jesus may have known that Judas would not repent, but the invitation and possiblity was always there. 
There are secular scholars who argue that God's foreknowledge negates free will. I disagree. Often, we know what our children will do. We recognize their patterns (often because we did likewise at their age). Nevertheless, we let them make their mistakes. Most of the time we see the errors well in advance. Once in a while they surprise us and don't do what we fear they will.
Regardless, the mistakes or wise choices are theirs. God, being all-knowing, is always correct in what He knows. Nevertheless, the choices are ours. We are free.
BTW, is free will not core to LDS teaching. My understanding is that free agency is even stronger (more advanced) than free will, and that it is crucial to LDS theology. 

I couldn't do what I do unless I believed in free will--even very late in the game (of life). "Whosoever will may come." All who are hungry or thirsty or both are welcome. Death bed conversions are real. The thief on the cross was real. The prodigal son--was all of us. 
Perhaps the greatest evidence of free will is Judas. Jesus knew this disciple would betray him. Jesus even said it would have been better for him if he had never been born. So, where's the free will? Jesus still chose him. Jesus still washed his feet. Jesus suffered and died so that folks like him could repent. Jesus may have known that Judas would not repent, but the invitation and possiblity was always there. 
There are secular scholars who argue that God's foreknowledge negates free will. I disagree. Often, we know what our children will do. We recognize their patterns (often because we did likewise at their age). Nevertheless, we let them make their mistakes. Most of the time we see the errors well in advance. Once in a while they surprise us and don't do what we fear they will.
Regardless, the mistakes or wise choices are theirs. God, being all-knowing, is always correct in what He knows. Nevertheless, the choices are ours. We are free.
BTW, is free will not core to LDS teaching. My understanding is that free agency is even stronger (more advanced) than free will, and that it is crucial to LDS theology. 

It happens.  But I agree with you.  We do not preach replacement theology.  As the Lord's Ancient Covenant People, they still hold a special place in the theological history of the world and the events that are about to unfold.
Early LDS Apostle, Orson Hyde, was sent on a mission to dedicate the land of Israel to the return of the Jews.
Here is a journal entry (as a letter) from Elder Hyde. 
https://www.vibrationdata.com/Orson_Hyde.htm
There is quite a bit of narrative before and after the prayer that is enlightening.
I'll post the dedicatory prayer here:
 

This is the gist of the Replacement Theology argument: The Jewish people broke the "If my people..." conditions and so inherited the "If my people do not ..." warnings. Thus, God replaced the Jews with the Christian church. 
My difficulty with this approach is that we have all failed God. Jesus forgives 70X7. The cycle throughout the Old Testament was of sin (whoring after false gods--not just corrupt Judaism, but full-on Paganism), repentance, forgiveness, blessing, and gradual drifting away. Every time they came back, God forgave them. His covenant remains.
Every time I repent, likewise, God embraces his prodigal son. We need the Old Testament largely because it reminds us that as undependable as we are, God remains true to His word.

This is the gist of the Replacement Theology argument: The Jewish people broke the "If my people..." conditions and so inherited the "If my people do not ..." warnings. Thus, God replaced the Jews with the Christian church. 
My difficulty with this approach is that we have all failed God. Jesus forgives 70X7. The cycle throughout the Old Testament was of sin (whoring after false gods--not just corrupt Judaism, but full-on Paganism), repentance, forgiveness, blessing, and gradual drifting away. Every time they came back, God forgave them. His covenant remains.
Every time I repent, likewise, God embraces his prodigal son. We need the Old Testament largely because it reminds us that as undependable as we are, God remains true to His word.

This part of the link to Orson Hyde's Dedicatory Prayer is very interesting to me:
“…restore the kingdom unto Israel -- raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.”
Such a nation would serve the Lord. The divine impetus for the Jews to gather to the land of their inheritance, which Orson mentioned in his notes, like the Spirit of Elijah, can also be imitated and twisted into many false versions to suit the ambitions of evil and conspiring parties. Or, as with the settling of Missouri, become polluted due to “contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires” (D&C 101) among factions within Judaism. I avoid describing his impression of the “great wheel… unquestionable in motion” as “Zionism” as we see it today, for this reason. The nation-building and its declaration as such a kingdom would require prophetic oversight.

The facts seem to favor Israel in the current conflict. "The other side started it," would usually work when explaining to the yard duty at the elementary school playground why fighting took place--if it could be proven. In this case, the Palestinians admit to starting the conflict. Those taking their side claim that the hostilities were decades in coming but admit that their side threw the first punch in the current conflict.
Evangelicals favor Israel for another reason. Many of us see Israel and modern Jews as pivotal to end-times prophesy. We believe God will bring a revival at the end of time and that many/most Jews will come to accept Jesus as their Messiah. We continue to believe that the Jews are God's special people. We reject "replacement theology," which suggests that the Christian church has inherited God's promises to Abraham and the Jewish people. 
So, while some criticism of the Israeli government may come from our corner, for the most part we are inclined to favor Israel in these conflicts. Further, every time hostilities break out, we renew our passion for the Lord's return. 
Are their similar feelings among the saints or are beliefs about the end times quite different?

Actually, based upon the teachings of both of our churches, this is proof that God is. 😉

Greetings @prisonchaplain:
In response to your questions about the Jews and the 144,000 I have sought how to answer.  I will begin with providing you a link to the journal of the LDS apostle and prophet, Elder Orson Hyde who was commanded by G-d to travel to the Holy Land and dedicate that land for the gathering of the Jews in the Last-days.  His record is dated Nov 22, 1841.  His journal entry gives some indication of the troubles in the area.  His dedicatory prayer is prophetic and most has obviously been fulfilled as a testament to its truthfulness and that these are the last-days.   The Link:
http://www.vibrationdata.com/Orson_Hyde.htm#:~:text=%22Do%20Thou%20arise%20in%20the,clothe%20her%20Priests%20with%20salvation.
I believe that this dedication is prophetic scripture but currently is not included in our standard works – perhaps at a later time.  It is my understanding that during this time of the last-days that the world (including the Jews) will experience troubles as prophesied concerning the last-days.  However, the Jews and the covenant Saints are under blessing afforded for the last-days – but this does not mean they will not experience hardships or threats (like unto Daniel and his brethren) just that they will be comforted by the spirit.
As things progress – it is my understanding that a coalition of evil will be established among the nations to destroy Israel (the Jews in Jerusalem) that have gathered as a nation according to the prophesy of Orson Hyde.   This coalition will be centered in the ancient kingdom of Gog and Magog which I believe to be either between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea or close by.  I cannot say I know but it appears that the “Axis of Evil” currently of Iran, Russia and China that initially was focused on Ukraine could be the beginning of such a coalition.
This coalition will bring violence throughout the world – I believe we are currently seeing a beginning of this.  An army will invade Israel.  I speculate that nuclear weapons will be involved, so that land will burn for 7 years.  A final battle will commence upon the Jews gathered in Jerusalem.  Two prophet witnesses (which is our LDS definition of apostle) will protect the Jews with divine power until they (the two witnesses) are killed in the streets of Jerusalem.  This event I believe will be celebrated worldwide.   As the army enters Jerusalem to destroy the Jews an earthquake will take place stopping the army and the mount of olives will split open.   The Jews will seek refuge there and Jesus will appear unto them and show his wounds in his hands, feet and side – this will mark the prophesy of the Jews converting unto Jesus as the Christ.  Following this Jesus will come and appear to the world in power and glory and ending all governments of men.
 
Concerning the 144,000.  I understand that this is a prophesy concerning a solemn assembly that will be held at Adam-ondi-Ahman.  We (LDS) believe this is the place where Adam and Eve, after being removed from the Garden of Eden, built an alter unto G-d and offered sacrifices.  After many days an angel of G-d appeared to Adam and Eve and asked why they offered sacrifices.  Adam responded that he did not know why only that G-d commanded him.  He was then told that such sacrifices were symbolic of the sacrifice that Jesus the Christ would make to atone for the fall of man and all the sins of the world.  Adam-ondi-Ahman is believed to be a sacred place like unto the place where Moses encountered the burning bush.
The 144,000 will be high priest of the order of Melchizedek.  There will be 12,000 high priest that have been given “Keys” to the priesthood of each of the houses (tribes) of Israel.  I believe your idea that some will be of ancient time is quite possible.  In addition to these high priests there will also be Moses, Noah, Melchizedek, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Adam (and others that preceded the house of Israel).  All the keys of all dispensations will be gathered by Adam that will present these keys to Jesus Christ in preparation of his coming and reign on earth.  How much this solemn assembly will be known unto the world – I cannot say.  Even though I am a high priest of the order of Melchizedek – I cannot say with assuredly that I will even know when this solemn assembly takes place.
 
The Traveler

I think your 2nd paragraph generally reflects our Church's teachings and members' attitudes. Some finer points perhaps, which I'll offer from my point of view:
1. Our Church is politically neutral, and where the state of Israel is one devised by man and not the covenant kingdom per se (e.g., as was David's), we take a theological view and really don't take sides in these kinds of conflict on religious grounds. Individual members are free make their personal political decisions however they justify them, acknowledging that the spirit of contention is of the devil and the Lord has revealed how His people are to engage in war. Related to this, Israel does not have a prophet to lead them no more than any other nation, and their constitutional freedoms and liberties are inspired of God but managed by fallible men.
2. The locale of the end-times prophecies seem very clear, but this would be the case irrespective of what government, or what kind of government, has jurisdiction over that geography. Jews will certainly there, and the Lord will fulfill His promises to His covenant people on conditions of repentance. The prophecies testify that there will be widescale repentance, sufficient to greet and worship the Savior upon Hs rescue of them at the last moment.
3. While Israel and the remnants of Israel living across the globe are indeed God's special or covenant people, the covenant is restored to them only through the ministry of the Gentiles who extend to them the covenants by way of the Restoration. This reflects the times of the Jews and the time of the Gentiles in turn from the Meridian of Time and the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.
4. God extends the covenant to both the Gentiles and the Jews since the times of Paul, and in this current dispensation. The Book or Mormon details the promises to the Gentiles that were also mentioned by the prophet Isaiah of the Bible.