mikbone

Members
  • Posts

    3050
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    45

Reputation Activity

  1. Haha
    mikbone reacted to NeuroTypical in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    By the way, whatever answer you find for the discrepancy here, you should also be applying to the BoM.  Thing is chock full of such discrepancies.  The scribe's notes don't match the printer's manuscript doesn't match the first copy of the first print run doesn't match the last copy of the first print run doesn't match the copy you have on your shelf doesn't match what you find at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures.
    https://criticaltext.byustudies.byu.edu/
  2. Thanks
    mikbone reacted to Just_A_Guy in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2010/10/cleansing-the-inner-vessel?lang=eng
     
    Compare with the audio at about 1:05
  3. Like
    mikbone reacted to zil2 in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    OK, so I got curious.
    It would have been "inspired counsel" (counsel = advice; council = group of people).
    So, I sharpened my google-fu and searched (cuz the Church website search options are lacking).
    In October 2011, "Counsel to Youth", we find:
    ...but the video says the same thing.
    In "Parents in Zion" (Oct 1998), it's listed with other things as "inspired guidance".
    The end.  So I removed Packer from the equation and required "family", "proclamation", and "inspired".
    Elder Richard J. Maynes calls a portion of the proclamation "inspired counsel".
    Elder Scott says it was "inspired of the Lord".
    And, I'm tired of perusing the results.  At this point, I think it's up to @Maverick to provide a link.
  4. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from SilentOne in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    There are some General Conference talks that are obviously inspired.
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1977/04/our-great-potential?lang=eng
    D&C 1:38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
    Joseph Smith routinely gave us revelations in the voice of the Lord.  Ezra Taft Benson’s talk about pride is in his own voice.
    The question is, do we appreciate those messages equally?
     
     
  5. Like
    mikbone reacted to Just_A_Guy in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    I would respectfully add separately, @Maverick, that I rather think you rather overstate the degree to which Church members have cause to feel significantly and sincerely befuddled by conflicting “church teachings”.
    That individual prophets and apostles can express personal views that may be wrong is, I think, increasingly well understood in the Church; as is the idea that we aren’t bound to offer unblinking obedience to such idiosyncratic statements.  The closest analogue is the statement in the supplementary matter to OD-1 about the Lord not allowing the prophet to lead the Church astray.  And even then, the statement is qualified to suggest not absolute infallibility but that any error will ultimately be harmless.
    What we are covenantally bound to follow through our sustaining votes—where we risk falling into grave error if we disobey—are statements of the united voice of the Church’s governing councils.  And once we remember that Church practices and teachings are to some degree tailored to time and place and that what was needful in 1835 or 2015 may no longer be appropriate in 2019 or 2024 (a proposition that is baked into the whole process, else there would be no need for living prophets/continuing revelation at all), I think one becomes hard-pressed to find a single instance where the entire Q12 and Q15 were objectively, undeniably, soul-jeopardizingly wrong.  
    The Church has no shortage of fringe theories, but it also has a theological mainstream.  And it’s really not that difficult to tell the difference—especially with the added benefit of personal revelation based in faith and sincere repentance, and even more so as we learn to block out the voices of the shrieking profligates who are pretty obviously motivated primarily by envy or libido.  
    Take the aforementioned Proclamation on the Family, for example. We can split hairs over whether it is (or should be) canon, versus scripture, versus revelation, versus inspiration, versus just good sense, versus a complete product of its culture, versus a vestige of bigotry under which the Church groans for relief.  But the simple fact is that over a hundred LDS apostles, seventeen LDS presiding high priests, every currently-serving GA-level seventy, and every section of LDS canon that discusses the matter, disapproves of gay sex.  It’s not a close call in any way.  The Lord, of course, can reveal whatever He will reveal.  But as our theology stands right now there is literally a better chance that He will instruct the Church to start buying and importing indentured servants from slave markets in Mauritania or child brides from impoverished families in Saudi Arabia, than that He will instruct the Church to begin solemnizing gay marriages.  That’s the elephant that remains in the room in spite of all the kabuki theater and concern-trolling over just how seriously we should really take the POTF.
  6. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from Vort in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    There are some General Conference talks that are obviously inspired.
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1977/04/our-great-potential?lang=eng
    D&C 1:38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
    Joseph Smith routinely gave us revelations in the voice of the Lord.  Ezra Taft Benson’s talk about pride is in his own voice.
    The question is, do we appreciate those messages equally?
     
     
  7. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from zil2 in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    There are some General Conference talks that are obviously inspired.
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1977/04/our-great-potential?lang=eng
    D&C 1:38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
    Joseph Smith routinely gave us revelations in the voice of the Lord.  Ezra Taft Benson’s talk about pride is in his own voice.
    The question is, do we appreciate those messages equally?
     
     
  8. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    I’m pretty sure we have more revelations than any other dispensation.  Other than the City of Enoch perhaps.
    There is great struggle with the Family Proclamation.
    I wish that we were ready for more revelations.  That we could live a higher law.  
    Don’t think we are ready yet.
     
  9. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from Vort in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    I’m pretty sure we have more revelations than any other dispensation.  Other than the City of Enoch perhaps.
    There is great struggle with the Family Proclamation.
    I wish that we were ready for more revelations.  That we could live a higher law.  
    Don’t think we are ready yet.
     
  10. Thanks
    mikbone got a reaction from Maverick in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    I’m pretty sure we have more revelations than any other dispensation.  Other than the City of Enoch perhaps.
    There is great struggle with the Family Proclamation.
    I wish that we were ready for more revelations.  That we could live a higher law.  
    Don’t think we are ready yet.
     
  11. Thanks
    mikbone got a reaction from Maverick in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    What about D&C 138   1918
    I consider a vision continuing revelation.
  12. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from ZealoulyStriving in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    I’m pretty sure we have more revelations than any other dispensation.  Other than the City of Enoch perhaps.
    There is great struggle with the Family Proclamation.
    I wish that we were ready for more revelations.  That we could live a higher law.  
    Don’t think we are ready yet.
     
  13. Haha
    mikbone reacted to NeuroTypical in Eclipse   
    Also, folks in Florida be like:

  14. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from mrmarklin in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    What about D&C 138   1918
    I consider a vision continuing revelation.
  15. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from ZealoulyStriving in Question concerning “Continuing Revelation”   
    What about D&C 138   1918
    I consider a vision continuing revelation.
  16. Love
    mikbone got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Temples for April 2024?   
    @Just_A_Guy
    Uturoa, French Polynesia
    Chihuahua, Mexico
    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Rosario, Argentina
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Brisbane Australia South Area
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Yuma, Arizona
    Houston Texas South Area
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    West Jordan, Utah
    Lehi, Utah
    Maracaibo, Venezuela
  17. Like
    mikbone reacted to Emmanuel Goldstein in President Holland: A Breather of Holy Fire   
    "I bear witness that when Christ comes, He needs to recognize us—not as nominal members listed on a faded baptismal record but as thoroughly committed, faithfully believing, covenant-keeping disciples. This is an urgent matter for all of us, lest we ever hear with devastating regret: “I never knew you,” or, as Joseph Smith translated that phrase, “[You] never knew me.” Fortunately, we have help for this task—lots of help. We need to believe in angels and miracles and the promises of the holy priesthood. We need to believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost, the influence of good families and friends, and the power of the pure love of Christ. We need to believe in revelation and prophets, seers, and revelators and President Russell M. Nelson. We need to believe that with prayer and pleading and personal righteousness, we really can ascend to “Mount Zion, … the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.”
    Brothers and sisters, as we repent of our sins and come boldly to the “throne of grace,” leaving before Him there our alms and our heartfelt supplications, we will find mercy and compassion and forgiveness at the benevolent hands of our Eternal Father and His obedient, perfectly pure Son. Then, with Job and all the refined faithful, we will behold a world “too wonderful” to understand. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen." -President Jeffery R. Holland, April 2024 General Conference.
     
  18. Like
    mikbone reacted to NeuroTypical in The stay-at-home girlfriend   
    Eating my lunch and scrolling, and I came across an example of what I’m talking about:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/GMq9NalMTp8?si=JGF6ByKYshz-JJ2I
     
    it is nice to see younger folks arrive at a little bit of wisdom on their own. Completely secular viewpoint being given here.
     
  19. Thanks
    mikbone reacted to NeuroTypical in Temples for April 2024?   
    I've been off arguing church finances with the critics on another board for a few years.  I did a little research on where we stick our temples, measured by the GDP of the country where they're built, and I made this chart:

    Each dot represents all the temples in a certain country.  So those two dots at the bottom right represent Brazil's 22 and Mexico's 25 temples, both horrendously poor nations with a per capita GDP of under $10k per year.  Temples are a massive investment of funds.  Maybe ~$60 million each to build, and maybe ~$3-4 million per year to operate.   
    Yes, roughly half of the temples are built in happy rich 1st world high GDP USA.  Because that's where roughly half of the worlds' saints live.  But with only two exceptions, every other temple we build is built in a nation poorer than the US.  
    158 temples are in countries with under $40k per capita GDP.  150 in countries with under $20k.  131 in the world's poorest nations, with the crushing poverty of under $10k per capita GDP.   If the saints in those areas had to rely on their own tithing donations to fund their temples, they couldn't hope to ever pay for one.
    If you're a church critic with issues on how the church uses it's wealth, even you are forced to admit that half of the temples cost more than they bring in.  
    We're currently seeing exponential growth in new temples.  When I ask myself how long that exponential growth will continue, one possible answer would be "as long as we can afford it".   Someone with a background in monitoring how large wealthy organizations run their charitable endowments ran the numbers.  Their back-of-a-napkin numbers said the church might be able to fully fund roughly ~2500 temples in poor areas who can't afford to pay for it via tithing.   At the current rate of growth, we could reach that in the year 2067.  
    Imma be paying attention in General Conference when they announce new temples!   Hoping for 18-20 or more!  And every time a poorer nation is named, I'll be rejoicing!
  20. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from NeuroTypical in Eclipse   
    Hope you have clear skies.
    Make sure you are in totality.  Close does not get it!
    Bring binoculars - not a telescope.
    Get to your viewing site early and don’t plan on going home till the following day.    
    Have a viewing plan. Look for the corona & solar prominences, look for the stars and planets.  Big open spaces are better than in the city.  It’s great to watch the animal reactions.  Notice the temperature changing.
    Looking directly at the sun for a second wont blind you permanently.  But it will totally ruin your eyesight for a couple minutes (the duration of totality).
    Bring water and snacks / food.  Full tank of gas.  Toilet paper, baby wipes, shovel just in case.  Suntan lotion etc.
    #14 Welding glass is the best to look at the sun prior to totality.
     
  21. Haha
    mikbone got a reaction from Traveler in Homophobic abuse of the heterosexual, Bo Derek and the sanctity of marriage   
    Drove me crazy to see girls in Jr. High and High School putting all those beads in their hair.
    You have dated yourself sir.
  22. Haha
    mikbone got a reaction from Jamie123 in Homophobic abuse of the heterosexual, Bo Derek and the sanctity of marriage   
    Still probably her best work.
  23. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from lonetree in Are the Gold Plates in a cave somewhere?   
  24. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from Vort in Spiritual Work   
    Reminds me of Enos.  
    I know darn well that his uncle Nephi and Father Jacob taught him numerous times many details of the gospel.  Surely he had gone to church on a routine basis
    Enos 1:4-8
    Yet, the knowledge without the spiritual work does not allow one to take advantage of Jesus Christ’s Atonement.
    It took Enos a might prayer to gain his testimony, and forgiveness.
    All of us must pass a personal test of spiritual work.  
    Salvation does not occur via osmosis.
    Having a prophet father figure probably helps though.
  25. Like
    mikbone got a reaction from ZealoulyStriving in Spiritual Work   
    Reminds me of Enos.  
    I know darn well that his uncle Nephi and Father Jacob taught him numerous times many details of the gospel.  Surely he had gone to church on a routine basis
    Enos 1:4-8
    Yet, the knowledge without the spiritual work does not allow one to take advantage of Jesus Christ’s Atonement.
    It took Enos a might prayer to gain his testimony, and forgiveness.
    All of us must pass a personal test of spiritual work.  
    Salvation does not occur via osmosis.
    Having a prophet father figure probably helps though.