Newcomer4831

This is a good joke, but I should have said derivation rather than derivative. Where does heaven come from? Where does God come from? I'm making a case for the law of conservation of matter/mass. If you have a 1 loaf of bread and few fish, you cannot divide that among a group where the output does not equal the input. Where does he get the extra matter?

Also, I guess that the "holy" books of God don't even contain a single math equation. I saw a thing where the name "Elohim" means "1 of many Gods". El meaning God, and ohim being a plural suffix. I'm also heard from a crazy old man who said "The word God came from Good, because God is Good and God doesn't like to be inefficient so he dropped the extra O." He said this like God was some kind of Efficiency director and somehow saying Good takes far too much time to say than God.

That's because the proof he gave you wasn't the proof. You can't use your own theorem to prove your theorem, you have to use substitution or another proven theorem. It's like saying you earned 10 dollars from your own wallet. The proof is as of follows. a*1=a <- identity axiom a*(1+0)=a <identity axiom of addition a*1+a*0=a <-distributive axiom a+a*0=a <-identity axiom again a*0=a-a <-subtract the a's a*0=0 thusly the theorem is proven. If you are wondering about axioms, axioms are products of nature. They are imaginative yet correspond to real world situations. Much like the economy. all theories in math, even Euler's equation e^(i*pi)+1=0 can be derived in this fashion. As far as losing faith, you have to question the derivatives of such things. Such perplexities such as morality and even heaven, where does that come from. If this is true "How could a being who uses the laws of nature at his desire to create worlds and mankind not love math?" then he certainly breaks his own law when Jesus feeds the masses. Where is the truth in that? Again when he creates woman from a rib. And if God really is an axiom, can he really be as elementary as a*1=a?

I'm a Math major, fell in love with the subject ever since I met the Dr. House of mathematics. However, it's leading me down this path of "non-believing". A friend of mine even said that he's now an atheist because of mathematics. Another person (of atheism) stated that Christians (or any person of piety-math joke) isn't good at math. What do you guys think?

I would imagine the devil, who can commit the most evil of evil, would lie.

How much of history plays in truth?

The Bhagavad Gita to me has so many ties to the basis of religion than anything else. "I am your creator. If you have the utmost submission and faith in me, you will go to heaven and all of the universe will flow smoothly."-Krishan

Ok new question, tangible subject. You hear a voice, how do you determine if it is Satan or God? If you do what the voice commands you: If it's God, then all is good. If it's Satan, then are you tempted and will go to hell. If you don't follow: If it's God, it's sin and you go to hell. If it's Satan, then all is good. Is this right?

"Some poisons are clear and oderless, they look just like water."

I'm attempting to answer a bunch of topics without quotes, bear with me. What's stopping from the voice that Nephi heard to actually be Satan? Just to tell you, the fundamentalist Muslims believe that the death of the infidels is has net worth for the people to be saved. If you kill an infidel, you are hindering his/his group, from preventing the will or message of God to be spread. The death of 1 or a billion infidels is worth 1 life to be saved. I in fact would refuse God if it conflicted with my God given reason and also if it conflicted with God's own commandments. I would like to model my life after Jesus, and I can't even imagine Jesus slaying a man, no matter how wrong he is or unrighteous. Even if the Heavens opened up, I would imagine Jesus praying and saying "Please Father, forgive him." And I can bear witness that an atheist would not do what God tells him, a Buddhist (sorry if I'm wrapping you up this Bodhigirl) wouldn't do it either, a Jainist wouldn't do, and a scientist who's whole career hinges on reason would not murder someone based on the fact that God told him. (A Buddhist wouldn't do it because of a certain incident regarding the near death of the Buddha; many monks were killed in the process) I didn't understand your "magical thinking" paragraph. And again I fail to see the positive outcomes of the death. (I'm sorry Elgama) But we don't need mass genocide and the greastest crimes against humanity just for mere documentation. I would rather have Ann Frank alive, today perhaps, then what she experienced. However, Elgama seems to be making the best of a bad situation, but in all honesty, would you rather have the Holocaust never happen or would you rather have read the accounts of the Holocaust so you can have some profound understanding of human nature? I for one would rather have the Holocaust never happen. Dravin: Yes Dravin, death is inevitable. No one in existence is immortal; even Jesus who raised the dead, couldn't make Lazarus immortal; Lazarus couldn't escape death, he just had prolonged life. However to say that God kills via heart attack, I have no way to know God's intentions. That would take "magical thinking." However to see the intentions of Nephi, we can see the wrongful intentions. How do we know it's wrongful, because we have a thing called empathy. I just watched a show on NatGeo about Bonobo and Chimpanzee behaviors and they even have some form of empathy. How does Laban feel, how does his family feel, how does society feel? If you are talking about a State, that is entirely different. I know in the US we have a system called the Judiciary system that clearly states the conditions of execution. No one in the US can take the law into his own hands and kill whom ever he chooses despite the fact it might be God given. And further more, people do think that execution is murder. Now if we had a king that would go around executing people for his own selfish terms, would you support this? I would assume you would think of that as murder as well. And yes, people do in fact seek vengeance on executioners. Not as you described it. Imagine if someone held false witness to your father/mother that she murdered someone and she was executed on those grounds. You would probably be anger at the person who accused your father/mother, that person who held the false witness just served as an executioner. I'm saying that death or anger shouldn't be quenched with more death. I wouldn't for one kill anyone, not Hitler, not Satan, for you cannot battle such evils with evil; that only breeds excuse for more evil. (certainly 2 wrongs don't make a right) I for one would use other means to obtain the plates, through cunning or percerverence. God gave me things like logic and empathy, I tend to use them. If God wants me to kill, he would have to do way with those for I will not throw them away on my own.

Ok, so you got me on the Hitler thing, primarily because you, just as me, don't know if God told Hitler to kill the Jews. But we do know that Hitler was born on God's green earth. And if it's not Hitler, so other people. That woman who drowned her kids and Islamic extremist and in some ways, perhaps the Pope in regards to the crusades, were told by God which allowed them to do what they did. And to say there were signs doesn't make it right nor does it leave an excuse for Hitler for committing such acts. You've already made your stance. That a heart attack is no different than murder (whether it's God given or not). Any attempt to say that a heart attack, which isn't preplanned, whose ramifications are not under the Commandments or the Law. Look, a heart attack has no intentions, while a guy with a sword has intentions and motives. There is a different. No one can blame a heart attack and some how seek vengeance against a heart attack, and a heart attack can't go to jail for it's actions. And there is NO LAW any where in the world or in existence that deems a heart attack illegal.

So many problems with this post. To say that God did the killing through Nephi is like saying that Hitler killed the Jews through God. I wasn't there in history in both cases, but just as the voices told Nephi to kill Laban, the signs were there for Hitler to kill the Jews (Hitler was a bit of a mystic). And really? You don't think there is a difference between a heart attack and actual murder? I see that you have no conception of morality. And I also see that I can't even reason with you, nor will I.

Yes I did read the whole thing and saying that killing a man to save a thousand is hardly an excuse for murder. That is how suicide bombers reason for their actions. And no, I wouldn't kill Hitler, the death of Hitler would only send a message to the rest of the German society as well as Nazi sympathizers that the world was against Hitler's dream. Hitler may have even been materialized as a kind of prophet or martyr. And his second in command, possibly Himmler who was possibly more fanatical, would possible seize the opportunity in order to grab more land or even scape goat that it was the Jews who plotted the death of Hitler because Hitler spoke the truth. The Jews killed Christ because Christ spoke the truth, why couldn't they make the same claim for Hitler? Second of all, it wasn't Hitler that was necessary for the Nazi party. He was just at the right places at the right time. It could have been anybody who wanted to do so. We've seen historically fascist regimes that have been built by particularly nobodies. Mussolini and Saddam were again nobodies in their birthright. Yet the conditions they lived in, and their passion accelerated them to the positions they held. I don't know how much this is troubling me, that the Holy Ghost of all things would tell Nephi, who is righteous, to kill. Even if he didn't obtain the brass plates, like someone said "Truth cannot be destroyed, just buried or forgotten." If this is so, then the plates would somehow come to pass regardless if Nephi obtained them. And couldn't God have done the slaying? A simple heart attack can suffice.

Here the Spirit asks Nephi to slay Laban. Why would a good spirit do such a thing?

Well are you having fun? As long as you are having "fun" then it doesn't make sense to say that you aren't having fun? You are only causing problems for yourself, you are letting the ignorant people get to you.