ryanh

It varies between bishops and stake presidents. I have had some bishops, and one stake president explicitly ask about it.

If your spouse doesn't give you a glass of water, sure, you can go get your own. If your spouse doesn't mean your sexual, emotional, or other deep seated need, where is a person supposed to go to get that desire/need met? In a moral way?

For some circumstances, that kind of analogy might apply - esp when there is Alzheimer’s. Because there is a firm foundation laid from the years prior. I don't think the situation is always that simple though. When the relationship has been strained from the beginning, (unconsummated, abusive/controlling, etc) the considerations are fundamentally different than when an established relationship suddenly changes due to a tragic accident or mental decline. A couple may get past even an incredibly rough start if they continue to meet each others needs, however, that is not the type of situation Gwen is getting at.

And I've heard him recount it in his own voice (recorded). The true story is as Suzie copied and pasted.

Agreed. I feel we do not value as much that which is freely given as we do that which is earned. We find happiness and value in that which we struggle for and earn. On the spiritual principal of it, I don't think anything should be "free". (the natural man in me sure wants some recreational activities free for a while though!!! )

Dahlia, what you speak of, what you are focused on in this post, is very much of this world. Temporal considerations. Don't forget that there is learning, development, and education from choosing the path of the "traditional" mother that cannot be earned in any other way. That has value too. Value that will last the eternities, and not a vocation that will become obsolete in the hereafter.

Absolutely. No question in my mind that there are 'saviors' (lower case “s”) foreordained to change a course for posterity. Grand examples of this are Noah, Abraham, Lehi, Joseph of Egypt, and Joseph Smith. I personally feel that others such as Martin Luther, William Tyndale, and founding fathers of the US fit in that category too. On a much smaller scale, others have callings and personal challenges in life to change the direction of, or end the pattern of, a family line. I am intimately aware of two such circumstances with two individuals. Both times were confirmed to me through the Spirit that the individual was placed in the position that they might prove themselves, and be of service in a way that subsequent generations needed. I don't believe it is always the case when a person is in a bad situation, but it most certainly happens. Be careful though Crash not to spin it that a person is being sacrificed or punished. Such is not the case. Rather, as Elder Scott put it, it is the Father showing forth great faith in His child knowing their capabilities, and that they will overcome.

What do you make of Mormon's uncharacteristic justification of the date of the start of the storm? Lengthy justification for the truth of the record, but a qualifier "if there was no mistake made . . ." It would seem Mormon had serious doubts about the timing of the start of the tumult. But, he had no doubts about "end of the 34th year", "soon after", or that people were gathered in Bountiful marveling about the changes. Does it really make sense that people were gathered together to marvel on a date many months later, but short of an annual anniversary? It really seems that Mormon questioned this timing too.

My wife: "If life was fair, the horse would get to ride the human half the time." Those that personally know me know I have a long list of "favorites". Just a few include: Keep in mind the challenging fact that your aim is not to get ahead of others, but to surpass yourself; to begin today to be the person you want to be. Hugh B. Brown, Conference Report, April 1968 ____________ No wind favors he who has no destined port. Montaigne ____________ The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials. Confucius ____________ Anger, if not restrained, is frequently more hurtful to us than the injury that provokes it. Lucius Annaeus Seneca ____________ Most conflicts in a romantic relationship are not about the conflict - they are about significance. Jonathan Scott Halverstadt ____________ We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be. C.S. Lewis ____________ It has been said that 'in patience ye shall win your souls,' and what is this patience but an equanimity which enables you to rise superior to the trials of life? Dr. William Osler Equanimity: A calm patience. The state of being calm, stable and composed, especially under stress. Equanimity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ____________ Why do we resist and resent life’s developmental and obedience tests? By declaring, “I will walk in my own way and do that which is right in my own eyes,” we reject the curriculum of the mortal school in which we are irrevocably enrolled. There is only one exit gate leading unto eternal life. Unhappily, only a few find it—but not because God is exclusionary, but because they exclude God from their lives. Even God cannot bring to pass a reconciliation involving only one party. Neil A Maxwell ____________ I have wept in the night For the shortness of sight That to somebody’s need I may have been blind; But I never have yet Felt a tinge of regret For being a little too kind. Author Unknown ____________ There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man. The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self. Hindu Proverb I walked a mile with Pleasure, She chatted all the way; But left me none the wiser For all she had to say. I walked a mile with Sorrow, And ne'er a word said she; But, oh! The things I learned from her, When sorrow walked with me. Robert Browning Hamilton ____________ Pain stayed so long I said to him today, “I will not have you with me any more.” I stamped my foot and said, “Be on your way,” And paused there, startled at the look he wore. “I, who have been your friend,” he said to me, “I, who have been your teacher—all you know Of understanding love, of sympathy, And patience, I have taught you. Shall I go?” He spoke the truth, this strange unwelcome guest; I watched him leave, and knew that he was wise. He left a heart grown tender in my breast, He left a far, clear vision in my eyes. I dried my tears, and lifted up a song -- Even for one who’d tortured me so long. Author Unknown, quoted by Spencer. W. Kimball in Tragedy or Destiny, 12/6/1955 BYU Devotional ____________ Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on: you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently he starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of--throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were going to be made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself. C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, 174; book 4, chapter 9, paragraph 10 ____________ The longer I live the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company ... a church ... a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past ... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have – and that is our ATTITUDE. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you ... we are in charge of our attitudes. Charles Swindall ____________ But to every mind there openeth, A way, and way, and away, A high soul climbs the highway, And the low soul gropes the low, And in between on the misty flats, The rest drift to and fro. But to every man there openeth, A high way and a low, And every mind decideth, The way his soul shall go. One ship sails East, And another West, By the self-same winds that blow, 'Tis the set of the sails And not the gales, That tells the way we go. Like the winds of the sea Are the waves of time, As we journey along through life, 'Tis the set of the soul, That determines the goal, And not the calm or the strife. Ella Wheeler Wilcox

3 Nephi 10:18 . . . insomuch that soon after the ascension of Christ into heaven he did truly manifest himself unto them— Chapter 11 where he appears relates that the people were still discussing the new changes to the land, seeming to indicate it was indeed very soon after his ascention and the lifting of the darkness.

By chance, looking for something else, I ran into another potential resource for you: Enduring It Well Episode 8 - Triumph Over Pain - Carolyn Miller Pain is an inevitable and integral part of human existence. Although it is hard, it teaches us how to love and appreciate what we have in our lives. In this episode of “Enduring It Well,” host W. A. Christensen speaks with Carolyn Miller about a debilitating disorder and about never giving up. She attributes her success to the scriptures, the love and support of her husband Lynn, and the gospel of Jesus Christ, which ultimately taught her to have faith and to be always grateful.

I hope that is the right choice Joe. It would on the surface seem to be right to me, but of course, there is only One that can truly guide you as to what is the right choice.In your remaining time at home, and as a help to frame your lifetime of physical ailments, I would suggest reading/listening to talks by Elder Maxwell. He surely was one acquainted with physical struggles, esp in the last of his life when stricken with cancer. Some of his talks of physical struggles and illness after the first round of treatment and remission are awe inspiring of his understanding of physical tribulations. See: BYU Speeches Website: Maxwell Talks Although from 1984, well before his experience with cancer, a good talk about dealing with both acute and chronic trials is: If Thou Endure Well

And therefore is a product of choice (or habitual response initially developed by choice, even if ignorant emulation).

Secondary does not always indicate there was a preceding emotion. It means that there was an antecedent, whether an emotion or not. When one's thought processes are truly and deeply analyzed, you will always find an antecedent to anger. Ruling out abnormalities, it is always in response to stimuli.

Sent you a pm. I was in a similar situation, and am forever grateful I went back out.

You need to read more carefully before being ADD impulsive.

At least society has the common sense to legislate and regulate inappropriate uses of the many tools you like to use as examples each time this comes up. But, you would like to ignore that people use FB inappropriately. Why? Why ignore that it can be used for ill too? What do you gain by that? Where is the harm in recognizing that it is an extremely efficient tool for inserting wedges into a marriage? Some day anatess (if not already happened many times over), your H will find his emotional needs being met by another woman - esp those for acceptance and compassion - a lack of conflict in a relationship. It invariably will happen if you two don't have a strict code of no relationships with those of the opposite gender. [why on earth are so many LDS even debating this? - something our leaders have told us over and over not to do!!!] He will have to make a choice. And from what you relay of him, he will make the right one. But, do you honestly think it better that he be subjected to temptation and have to fight it off than to simply avoid the temptation all together?

I am well aware of D&C's engagement. That's a long ways from the experience of having FB being used as a tool to interrupt a marriage.

Oh good. For a bit there, I thought you might have been referring to: Missions are great places to learn that it simply takes a desire to serve - a small testimony, and that by acting on faith, such a testimony grows by leaps and bounds.

Play that game if you want. My reaction to your poor posts is not about disagreement with a pov - its about summarily dismissing an important topic. Spinning it to be about a failure to accept other opinions isn't really hiding that you don't know what you are talking about on this topic. It is actually further evidencing the fact. Have either of you had a spouse use the tool to harm your marriage? Neither of you have been in a [marriage] relationship while FB has been in existence!!! Don't give me no crap about you being able to understand or comment on the OP of divorcees and divorce attorneys giving their opinion on FB's influence on their past marriage. Neither of you really even touched upon the OP's core question - "Do Facebook and other social networking sites hurt marriages?" Both of you came out simply dismissing without any discussion or experiential basis, let alone an expounding of thoughts beyond a simple platitude far to simple to demonstrate any understanding or convey a useful meaning.

LM isn't so foolish as to dismiss with platitudes without seriously contemplating the subject - as clearly evidenced by his walkthrough of how so many rationalize being alone in one manner is unacceptable, but will engage in another manner. Wisdom can be gained without actual experience. LM is one person I would, in many respects, place into that category. Those that shut their eyes, don't try to understand from observation, and summarily dismiss without either experience or rational thought/observation, I do not.

Yeah, I had a number of those as companions or roommates (back before the 'raising of the bar'). As a recent convert with a burning testimony, it was very disappointing to be held back by a companion that 'didn't know', and was wishy-washy about getting out the door and testifying. My personal opinion is that a mission is not to be looked at as an opportunity to gain a testimony. I feel that is a fundamentally flawed attitude in generational LDS culture. Many people's opportunities to hear the gospel may be soured on the example of one missionary goofing off because he/she didn't really know what they were doing out there. Better IMO that a smaller, more effective, Spirit-guided group of missionaries represent the Lord than a watered down larger group. D&C 4:5 - And faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work. (Nope, I don't see in there "a desire for worldly rewards" [such a getting the hot chick] as a qualification). A testimony is still necessary to qualify for the work. Focus on the testimony, not treasures on earth. Those within your power to influence will be much more abundantly blessed than if their spiritual leaders turn their eyes from the spiritual way to focus on worldly rewards to be gained.

I don't disagree with your points Bumper, and I understand what you say about looking for the tangential reasons. . . still . . . I suspect that any young man that has a true testimony will in and of themselves want to serve a mission. IMO, the issue with the kids you run into isn't a lack of exciting or good reasons to go (they have heard plenty through the years in various classes and sacrament meeting talks), but they don't have a strong testimony. Help them gain a stronger testimony, help them hear (and recognize) the enticing of the Holy Ghost, and then there is no need to entice or persuade regarding benefits of serving a mission.

I laugh a little at so many (not just you wing and pam, your two early comments simply provide convenient and poignant examples) that are so quick to comment on something they apparently have never experienced. As if the simple slogans so often used are sufficient to understand the nature of the situation. I hope everyone taking such a stance never gets to experience the efficiency of the "tool" for causing greater problems in a marriage than would exist were the "tool" not present to be abused. Shall we postulate that pornography isn't all that bad? After all, only "bad”, or "unfaithful" married persons would use such a "tool", right? Or that for some, they feel they can use it "responsibly" to meet emotional needs for companionship of the opposite gender, and justify there is no risk to their marriage (because, after all, they are not physically present with a person)? Clearly pornography is an extreme comparison as FB does have many good uses, but the underlying principle is the same. Bingo! Thank you for highlighting it so well LM. As can be seen in this thread (and previous nearly identical threads) from multiple responses ("I separate facebook from my romantic desires" yeah, well, if there is no emotional value to those associations, why keep them?), people think that because there is no physical presence, there is no issue. How utterly ignorant of the reality of how affairs start!!! Conversing privately with someone electronically most certainly develops those emotional bonds where all issues take seed. Until FB (and to a lesser extent it's predecessors), there never was such an efficient tool to look up and privately develop bonds with past flings where romantic feelings once (and likely still) existed. I appreciate your post Obolus, so well pointing out well how FB is a tool without trying to pretend that just because it is a tool, it doesn't generate inherent risks. FB indeed is just a tool. And my point is that it is a very powerful one that makes straying into inappropriate relationships so much easier. It is offensive to me when people think just because something like FB is a tool, it can be ruled "benign" and all concerns can be summarily dismissed. Yes, it is up to the user to use the tool FB is for good purposes, but to try to argue that there is no issue just because it is only a tool is foolish and akin to burying one's head in the sand to pretend an issue doesn't exist.

Nor does it rule out causation. A survey of lawyers and divorcees providing subjective opinion on causation is quite different from the typical exploratory scientific publication where such a platitude would be used to correctly reframe it.