ryanh

Elizabeth: As I heard the following talk recently, I thought of this thread and your current dilemma with postponing baptism. Elder Holland lays out well why you are experiencing opposition. Cast Not Away Therefore Your Confidence

I'm not sure why there is a presumption that the OP is considering divorce out of the blue, undiscussed.

Roxi, as I was having to come to terms with the end of my 14 year marriage, what gave me the most comfort was a confirmation that it was a correct path to follow. In general terms, when I brought my decision, and all that I had done before Heavenly Father, and earnestly sought His counsel in all my decisions, peace did come. It wasn’t a peace because I thought I had done whatever I could, but the peace that comes when He confirms that efforts are acceptable. It actually was an extremely spiritual experience, despite the situation giving rise to it. Like the Prophet Joseph in Liberty Jail, some of our hardest experiences can become some of the most rewarding if only we will let them. (Lessons From Liberty Jail) Like most struggles in life, I suspect that achieving peace with a decision to divorce has no set path. It probably is something that has as many solutions as there are people that actually go through the process. Clearly, there are more healthy ways than others (resentment, anger, etc among the least healthy), but you need to find what works for you. My one biggest suggestion is to seek Heavenly Father’s guidance. When you have directions from the Spirit, even if the path may be hard, at least you can know it will all work out for the best in the end. If you are not sure yourself whether you have done all you can, and are not at a point yet to take a ‘decision’ to Heavenly Father for ratification, one book I would suggest is Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. The author does an excellent job walking a person from the point of the catch 22 of relationship ambivalence to the point of having clear information needed to make a well measured decision. Behind The Smiling Faces was not a tremendously helpful book, but it did lay out nicely, in first person recounting, of the struggles other LDS have gone through when making the decision to end a marriage that was sealed in the temple. It’s been quite a while since I read it, but if I recall correctly, I think you will find therein people recounting some parts of how they dealt with the emotions and came to grips with the death of what was supposed to be an eternal relationship. Best of luck to you. It is a tremendously hard process. One of those proverbial situations I wouldn’t wish on an enemy. Spend lots of time on your knees. Seek and obtain personal revelation. Our Father in Heaven knows the best way through this for your, and your daughters’ particular circumstances.

As I read, reread, and then read again all the advice I could find on LDS.ORG in regards to divorce and how much effort one should put into a marriage, it was my perception that quotes such as Faust's are aimed at individuals that give up to quickly. Esp Pres Kimball's oft repeated admonitions. Quotes by General Authorities, when taken in full context, are clearly aimed at those that simply give up all too soon - without giving it their all. Let's look at Faust's quote a little more closely Rex: He doesn't point out that one spouse or the other needs to be "destroy[ing their partner's] dignity as a human being”. He is not saying that one person has to be absolutely a monster to justify divorce. He points to a "prolonged and apparently irredeemable relationship". When one spouse plays the good person for many years (remember the OP points out that there was a FIRST separation 12 years ago!!!), and the other spouse does not respond for that "prolonged" period of time, it DOES become dignity destroying. The basic lack of respect and affection, esp from a typical woman's standpoint, is demoralizing. Just as demoralizing as withholding of physical affection would be to the typical man. I'm not going to be tossing pebbles at Roxie as ‘needing to give it more effort’ when clearly there have been problems for well more than a decade. Esp from the (albeit one-sided) perspective shared that she has tried and tried, but he is not upholding his end of the marital contract, and she is now at the end of her rope. Just because divorce is not an ideal (and often not even a good) solution. How about we deal with advice of how cope when one is at the end of their rope rather than a over-generalized ‘you need to work harder’? How about something of use rather than telling the one struggling that they are the one not doing enough?

After removing the sheet from the dryer (or clothes line) . . . remove the other fitted sheet from the bed, and place the clean one on the bed. Roll up the removed sheet and store in a laundry basket out of sight until it is time to change sheets, and then do the laundry. Repeat. Viola! No folding of the impossible to fold sheets necessary! That's my guy-solution for the problem.

How do you fit in the impossibility that "unfaithful [LDS]" were around to remove "plain and precious" parts out of the stick of Judah at a time when removing such parts would have been possible?Why would Nephi bother to describe systems and organizations if he was talking about individual choices? Clearly, when Nephi wanted to address individual choices, he did not beat around the bush in doing so. So, how does a "church" equate "unfaithful members". I can't understand where you are coming from without your fleshing out your thoughts more. I also take the position that calling all "unfaithful" members as "display[ing]" the epitome of the mother of harlots, and abominations of the earth is painting a diverse group with an awfully wide brush stroke. Are you instead meaning to refer to a select subset that are wolves in sheep’s clothing?

Dahlia, the understanding of what Nephi was speaking of has undergone some shift as the study of what lead to loss of plain and precious truths has advanced. Early protestant efforts were aimed at demonizing the Catholic church, and many early LDS picked up where they left off. However, more recent research notes that "plain and precious" parts were removed from the scriptures before the Catholic church was even organized in the third and fourth century. Noel B. Reynolds gave a interesting discourse on all of this at BYU-Idaho in 2004. See: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=1010 A small part of that devotional is reproduced below.

Also, consider your meds (still on anti-depressant?). Some meds contributed to my insomnia also, and cutting back on the dose helped some. Doctors will often say that depression leads to sleep disturbances. I have (yet another) my own theory - when apnea or severe insomnia is present, the chronic sleep deprivation eventually leads to depression. I can look back over the last 20 years and see a very strong correlation between the amount of sleep I get, and the resulting mood. For me, sleep drives the low mood and related issues. In my case, depression absolutely did not drive sleep problems. Apnea and schedule restrictions hurt my sleep, which in turn hurt my mood. 10 years of reduced sleep (effectively 4 - 5 hours) takes it's toll. Again, I would urge you to continue aggressively treating the apnea and get it under control. For me, it was the root of many issues (insomnia, dysthymia, frequent illnesses, etc).

Like Pam, the sleep specialists I have consulted with (at the UofU Sleep Center) advise against sleep aids when apnea is present. It only compounds the issue. It may seem counter intuitive, but in my case, I do believe much of my insomnia arose from the apnea. Only by getting the apnea under better control has the insomnia subsided. I suspect that the constant interruption of sleep predisposes our brains to not want to go back to sleep - even when we are exhausted. Have you looked into mandibular advancement devices (if your apnea is obstructive)? What about devices to keep you from lying on your back? see: http://www.lds.net/forums/health-exercise/13562-sleep-problems-2.html#post489684 What about adjusting your pressure? Keep looking for solutions to treat the apnea. Perhaps it won’t be as successful at resolving the insomnia for you as it was for me, but I really do suspect the two are connected for many people.

The quickest way to get me to shut my eyes and ears to an opinion is to act as if I have to listen to (and accept) yours, but cannot have hope of the same in return. I'm not sure you really are grasping how hypocritical your demanding acceptance of your opinion is.

Hayky: I'm presuming you are familiar with the story of Abraham and the command to sacrifice his son. What do you think his feelings where when the choice was presented to him to either follow God, or do what he wanted - keep his son safe? I would suppose that Abraham was figuratively being torn apart inside also. I had an experience in my life recently where there was something I really didn't want to give up. I was torn between keeping the status quo, or following what I knew God wanted (knew in a way similar to how you know you need to go back to church - the Spirit is prompting you to do so). I remained in an awful dilemma until the point that I prayed and let Heavenly Father know I was willing to give up what I wanted to follow His path for me. That was no easy feat! It tore me up inside something awful - for the 'thing' I was being asked to give up wasn't inherently bad - no vice or questionable item - in fact it was good. It was only when I made the decision to follow Heavenly Father's promptings wholly contrary to what I wanted that the figurative "tearing me apart" ceased. Know what? Like Abraham, in the end, I didn't have to give up what I desired. I suspect that you too are being tested. Can you too find the will to give up what you want most in order to follow what you know is right? I suspect you will be happy with the results. But, you have to really, truly, reach that point of being willing to give up what you want in order for the “tearing apart” to end. Not just “I’ll do so in order that I quit hurting”, but actually be willing to give up what you want. I suppose the only other option is to shut out the Holy Ghost and no longer give it place in your heart so that you no longer feel drawn to what Heavenly Father wants for you. I don’t think that will end up being a positive experience.

Note: Chapter headings are NOT scripture. (neither are footnotes) They are were simply inserted to assist with study.

Welcome Powerja. Dang, my one solution is ruled out. I always turn to an extra large helping of Rocky Road ice cream.

All of us who find that we need to take maintenance medications for the rest of our lives struggle with that at first. It takes time to come to grips with it. Very commonly, after a period of usage and finding all is well, we might begin to wonder if we are "cured", and try to wean off the meds. I did that at least 5 times in the first 10 years of taking maintenance medications. Alas, with certain conditions, we are no more "cured" by medication than our poor eyesight is "cured" by prescriptions glasses or contacts. Thankfully, we live in a day when we have been blessed with corrective prescriptions for more parts of our temporal bodies than our eyes – including ‘out of focus’ brains.

Joseph F. McConkie, emeritus professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU, makes an interesting observation about the phrase "insofar as translated correctly". Dravin hit upon this thought a little bit. Joseph F. McConkie indicated that we often use the word translation as singularly meaning the process of changing from one language to another. However, the latin root of the word means 'to hand over', or to 'bear across'. The issue is about transmission of texts, not the issue of the actual act of changing from one language to the other. He gave his opinion that the correct reading of the meaning of the phrase should be read as "insofar as it is transmitted correctly." In short, there is much missing from canonized texts. Not so much the fault of inept or corrupt translators, but that through the process of selecting what to include it the Septuagint, and other canonized tests, there was a failure to transmit important parts. Many plain and precious parts were lost in this manner.

"The" Septuagint? As I understand it, there were many versions of the Septuagint. And it underwent many revisions and modifications in the centuries immediately preceding Christ's birth. So, pointing to the Septuagint as a stable foundation seems to be a bit of a fallacy.

Saintish, as one that has had far worse happen to me than you described in your other thread, and had to get past it myself, I say to you: get over it already, or you yourself will destroy every last bit of testimony you have. At this point, your SP is not the one harming you. You are.

You two can likely figure out if the marriage is right or not. You have a right to have direction from Heavenly Father in such issues. What worries me is how the in-laws are already affecting the relationship. If you think poor decisions by in-laws regarding when and how to interact with you to is painful now, it is possible you are in for a surprise to see how bad it can be during marriage. Been there, done that, it's no fun. You are not marrying just your fiance. Hope as we might, when we marry someone, we marry their parents - esp if our spouse has a close relationship with them. At this point, if I were you, and having gone through what I did with my ex in-laws, I'd be very seriously reconsidering if they are the type of people that I would want in my life.

I liked Hugh Nibley's thoughts on why there is often disparity between the scientific community’s and religion’s understandings. According to the "science" of today and yesterday, everything about the Savior – miraculous healings, His resurrection, and especially the atonement - is an impossibility. On matters of my faith, I am in no rush to attempt to merge my understanding of the two in many matters.

Well . . . what size house are you looking to rent? Just so happens that I'm clearing mine out right now, and have considered renting it out. Seriously!!! It's in the south end of Clearfield, two stone's throw away from Layton, 3 miles to the freeway, 3 bed, 2.5 bath, BIG yard, . . . . I'll send you a PM.

Using on-line meeting sites I met plenty. Have you considered, or have you dated divorcees? I found that divorcees were far more willing (and able) to discuss and understand such issues as you are facing. I met some great divorced LDS women who were pretty adamant they would not be 'neglected' sexually like they were in their previous marriage. I'd bet $0.02 that such a woman would take comfort from your struggles as she would feel confident that aspect of a relationship wouldn't be the same as what she experienced before.

How about a third: I have wept in the night for the shortness of sight that to somebody's need I may have been blind; But I never have yet felt a tinge of regret for being a little to kind. author unknown

Jakol, I have seen exactly what you are talking about in regards to different bishops applying different standards. It was certainly frustrating when I was dealing with such seemingly inconsistent standards. I feel for you. I'm likely one to lean towards the B's that measure effort and progress rather than absolute perfection. I also understand the dating and temple recommend issue. I was there myself not too long ago, and yes, the temple recommend holding was a critical pre-screening applied to me. I can only imagine trying to explain that, but keep interest alive. Tough. I'm a light sleeper too, although my frustrations while single (post divorce) were not something that caused me to awaken or prevented me from falling asleep. That has got to be maddening. When I don't get enough sleep, my ability to resist even donuts goes way down, (), so I can imagine it would make your situation all the harder. Have you ever considered sleep aids? Perhaps if you took a prescription sleeping aid at those times when most tempted, the issue would self-resolve like its supposed to? I don't know what your situation is like, but for me, serious dating and remaining chaste was much harder than abstaining from masturbation. I might suggest you consider finding someone in a situation similar to yourself, who really wants to be married in the temple, but is willing to be married civilly first to get there, and go that route. If you have been trying this for years, and the end result is repeatedly the same, perhaps its time to try something different. First though, I would see a doc about getting a prescription sleep aid if I were you.

Justification, rationalization, condescension . . . not sure you fellas are helping any. We've been through this cycle before with other posters in the past claiming 'impossibility'. Go look up the threads. I call hogwash on it being a necessary relief for any but the most driven (outliers on the bell curve). Even then, it isn't a physical necessity to masturbate, only a change of mental state. So, what is your guy's take on premarital intercourse then - let the boys do it because the desire isn't going to go away, and they ought to seek relief? Just don't "think" about what they are doing or have any feelings while doing it, and it's ok? The level of justification and rationalization is getting a bit ugly.

From my lay, self-educated understanding, I agree with you. There are many diagnoses that are comorbid with ADHD. It seems to me that whether there is an underlying cause that leads to all difficulties, or the comorbid diagnoses are the result of ADHD (or whatever the cause of ADHD is), there is little reason to not treat the ADHD. Having heard many personal stories where treatment of a spouse's ADHD resulted in the comorbid issues being resolved, I tend to believe that treating ADHD is necessary. It was definitely necessary for my ex to be able to gain advantage of her anxiety. For years, the Dr's only treated the anxiety, completely oblivious that ADHD existed. Only when the ADHD was treated was there truly progress in reducing anxiety. I know that at times when I have struggled with depression, I have not been able to feel the Spirit - or at least have not been able to recognize it. I definitely feel that our mental health can impact our ability to build a testimony. So, my fist suggestion is to actually get your mental health improved. Have you tried keeping a 'testimony journal'? A place where you write only the sacred things? Often, I have found in my life, that it is all too easy to forget how many little pieces are daily being laid in continuing development of my testimony, simply because I can't keep it all in mind - and I don't always "feel" it. But, when I take time to record them, and look back at what I collectively know/feel, it is a bit overwhelming. It could be simply that you have all the pieces, but they are not visible because they have only been stored as memories (which, isn't functioning as well as you would like right now, is it? )