ryanh

Why I don't see any good "correlation", I do see Gwen's excellent point that our own personal weaknesses in forgiving are not automatically excluding of us from worthiness. Gwen can correct any misunderstanding herself, but I presumed the hypothetical was used not as something corollary to the situation, but to highlight a difficult situation where forgiveness takes time.

As I was reading the first couple paragraphs, I was thinking "sounds like a typical struggle of one with ADHD". Then I see the diagnosis comment. I lived with a spouse with ADHD for almost 15 years. It is a struggle to do the 'normal' things the likes of which most people simply can't comprehend. I almost posted a link to this site last week about ADHD struggle and how it impacts a person's ability to carry through. I'll go ahead an slip it in here in case anyone wants to gain an understanding by reading about one person's struggle simply to get the laundry done for her husband. See: Dear my husband (a little long). It does not necessarily require performance or perfection to please the Lord. Progress and effort are very pleasing. Imagine if you will a toddler who is learning to walk. Would you be upset at them for repeatedly falling down? Rather, I suspect that like me, you would be well pleased with them if they kept getting up after every fall and continuing to work and progress towards being able to walk. That is how the Lord is with us. He knows we are a work in progress. So long as we don't sit on our duff and take it easy, He most certainly can be pleased with us. I doubt your insecurity of testimony would impact the Patriarch's ability to receive inspiration. Seek medical treatment of the ADHD. You may be surprise how much life's possibilities can open up for you with the right medication.

Good thoughts Slam. I don't agree with it all as it is a bit absolutist in many respects. The spectrum is wide, and not all situations fit the way you portrayed it. Still, I have never regreted being a little bit kinder than I thought I ought to be. Can't say the same for the opposite. My primary thoughts were along the lines of what MorningStar put in her second paragraph of her reply. The manner of the posting tells a whole lot about where the poster is in the process, and what kind of reply is appropriate. If one of my teens comes to me and discusses a situation like an adult, rationally, calmly, with well thought out reasons, I'm going to interact with them as an adult, and give their request serious consideration. When one of my teens comes to me whining, stomping their foot saying "I don't have to and you can't make me", then I know they need to be treated like the little child they are behaving as. It isn't because I love them any less when they are acting like a child. It is just showing that they are not mature enough to be handled in a mature way. The same happens here. When someone comes into a public arena, acting like a child, they are going to get a different reaction than when they enter the public arena in a mature manner. Isn't this why you (and myself too ) were so annoyed with LDSChristian? Isn’t that why some of your (and my) posts to him were a bit ‘short’ and abrupt in an attempt to ‘wake him up’? Perhaps you have a unique perspective and special empathy having gone through similar processes of coming to the willingness to repent fully that some others have. However, not everyone has followed such a drawn-out process, and therefore it is not likely possible full empathy can be experienced. But that doesn't negate, or make wrong, the perspective of many who have faced their issues head on in a timely manner and found that to be the best route. Perhaps those people are grateful that someone gave them a wake up call to get it done rather than prolong it, and so are paying forward the favor given them. Just because a response is harsh does not automatically mean it is not done out of love. Wasn't it you Slam, (or am I thinking of someone else) that posted they were grateful for their ex's figurative 2x4 across the side of their head as a wake up call? Sometimes such is the only way a person begins the process you describe. No one here wants to see someone standing in the path's first leg and refusing to go any further down what we all think is the appropriate path to follow. The short of it is, if people don't want the differing opinions of the public at large, then they shouldn't solicit for said opinions. Simple as that. (And the whining, complaining, thread altering, and manipulative behaviors that accompany such complaints about disliked requested opinions is yet another sign that the poster needs to be handled in a more direct and "wake up" method than might otherwise be appropriate.)

Your brother has to resolve his own feelings. It really is up to him, and try as we might, often it is just not possible to help a person see the correct path unless they want to see it. What comes to my mind is the question of if your brother truly feels worthy to enter in to the temple and enter into such a holy ordinance with such ill feelings in his heart. Does he really understand the moat and beam parable? That the greater sin is in him right now? Does he not understand the necessity of forgiving others before he can be forgiven of his own follies? Matthew 6: Your brother may not yet be mature enough to understand how this concept applies to him. But from a distance, with what you have said, it does sound like he ought to take a deep look at whether or not he is pure enough to enter the temple. Perhaps the attempt to intervene is why you have not been successful. If you are coming to your brother, pleading your mother's case, what he is going to hear is that you are a representative of the 'enemy', and therefore not a friend to him. Have you just listened to him? Let him process with you what he is feeling without telling him he's wrong, or misunderstands, or interjecting with your mother's or your position? Perhaps if he has some genuine loving help to process his feelings, he can let go of them sooner.

If I recall correctly, you like a little country, don't you Beefche? If so, then how about Conway Twitty's Love to Lay You Down? (Dravin, remember this one, and be sure to sing it to her on anniversaries ) Or another country song that would be great to dance to, and very fitting of a LDS reception would be Amazed by Lone Star. Or, mixing the country twang into a little pop, how about Shania Twain’s Forever and For Always? Going lighter and a more fun is Plain White T's 1, 2, 3, 4.

sin-now-repent-later

"I must have hit her pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh, kid?" Feeble attempts like that are not persusive in leading one off the trail. It makes the truth all the more obvious. I am sure glad I'm not married to you! I tend to agree with the comments of another person on the other active "won't confess to my spouse" thread. You don't have a marriage. All you have right now is a lie.

How is that different than any other selection process? Online meeting sites are not the issue there - that is human nature.

I do have a little experience in this area. I dated a LOT even though I had one child at home, and two that lived with their mother. One of my three children struggled with it enough that eventually they started seeing a counselor to help sort things out. Apparently, I am lucky that only one of my three reacted with the reluctance they did. (it was not the child living with me that had the issues) It is very normal for children to resist such foundational change in their lives. After all, the future is very "unknown". I'm a bit of the opposite spectrum from LM. I choose to take a much more optimistic approach (perhaps because I was forced to given the circumstances I found myself in). It is better for a child to be raised by a good parent and step-parent than by a single parent. They key is NOT in avoiding a second marriage, but in making sure it is right. If the decision is right, and a man you are dating will be a good person for your kids to continue growing up with, then you have the right IMO to make that executive decision for the best interest of the child. The child is not capable of seeing past their fears and dealing with the matter in a mature manner. Would you not move to a new city for employment just because your child doesn't want to? There needs to be a balance. And balance includes doing some things that children don't want to do – esp when it is in their best interest. I think you son is just dealing with uncertanties that he will not be comfortable with until he experiences the situation.

And this is precisely why mission rules generally prohibit teaching individuals of the opposite gender. Completely forbidden in two of the three missions I served in, and only allowed under strict rules in the third. Jason, who are we to say what is and what isn't supposed to be? We can only offer our opinions, cautions, and experiences. But, in the end, you and this sister will have to decide what is right. I whole-heartedly agree with Beefche's repeated plea to NOT let this "blossom" while she is on her mission. That would be a tragedy, and I think you would both regret it later on. If it truly is to be, then it will be. Waiting for a short period for her to complete her mission won't matter so much. And, if you are so confident that your guidance and confirmation of the rightness of it is of the Spirit, then do call her mission president, and have her transferred so you two don't end up screwing it up! Even when visions and promises are given, we still can foil them with our wrong use of agency. Such is often are dependent on our faithfulness. If you are confident, then there is no issue letting her be transferred, and for her to focus on her mission, and you to focus on your conversion, and for you two to make contact later on when she is finished with her commitment to the Lord. I have learned from a couple experiences in my life that it is all too easy to misinterpret spiritual confirmations. As an example, the Spirit could be saying to you and her "for this purpose she was called to this mission, and this area, so you two could meet". The meaning of that could be that it was for your conversion. However, in our minds and thought processes (especially when feelings of infatuation are present), it is all too easy to understand it as meaning meant to meet for the purpose of marriage. Be very careful to avoid such misinterpretations. They are painful to figure out later on through experience rather than confirmation beforehand. Let her leave the area, let things settle down, and then seek confirmation from the Lord. Given the unusual nature of the situation, and all that is going on, it would be prudent to do so IMO.

I suspect that little bit is where the root of your confusion lies. There is no such thing as a "free-pass". There is no "sweet deal". You are suffering from pride and not being grateful for the pearl of great price you have been given. Perspective can free or destroy us. As for me, I choose to maintain a perspective of: "I'm sure glad I can take this 'test' of life as an 'open-book-test'!!! How awful it would be to have to have this test (which truly does count, and there are no do-overs) blind to the questions, answers, and form!!!" Can you imagine for a minute what it would be like not knowing of the existence of a God, or that there is a Holy Ghost available to guide us if we will but open ourselves and listen? Can you imagine being held accountable for decisions that were contrary to the promptings of the Holy Ghost even though you didn't know there was such thing as a Holy Ghost, or that there would be repercussions to such decisions? Yes, it is true that less is expected of those given only one talent rather than five. But the expectation still exists to multiply what they were given! To double one talent is just as hard as doubling five talents. And I would prsume that doubling one, blindfolded, is harder than doubling five without handicaps. But the requirement is the same - multiply our talents. So the idea that there is some sort of free pass or sweet deal is a false one, and to my way of thinking, it is simply a feeble attempt at justification from one that does not yet understand the enormous value of the gift freely given to them. I’ve seen the idea crop up several times on this site. Jealously (which is rooted in pride – or enmity for others) for the presumption that those without a knowledge of the truth do not have to obey rules. Well, the issue seems to be a lack of desire to “do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them”, which, after all is at the core of the purpose of this existence. That, coupled with the adversary’s twisting it to make the great and spacious building seem like the better place to be – better because of the idea that those who don’t know better will have no consequences. That is not so. It is a falsehood. Sorry, there is no such thing as a religious neuralizer! You're just going to have to figure out what you’re going to do with who you are and where you are at. And keeping your gaze fixed upon the cares of the world surely isn’t going to help you see the path that is right in front of you!

I have a Family Grain Mill, and have used it perhaps a dozen times. I do like it, feel it performs well, and has held up well under the use it has received. I do question the longevity of the plastic bearings though. I wonder if over time or with repeated use the bearings won't wear out. For emergency sake, I've thought of looking into replacement/rebuilding parts to keep on hand.

Amen. I know lots aren't, but I am being presumptious that they wouldn't have any interest in reading the apocrypha anyway.

Great!!! Next time, try the 90 day challenge. Then the next time, study it by topic, then the next time . . . . One is never done studying the BoM, New Testament, or modern day revelations (which are going to be far more applicable than the apocryphia).I just heard a comment from Elder Oaks recently that on his 20th or so reading of the D&C, a verse jumped out at him that, if he didn't know better, he would have guessed it had been inserted since his last reading! Point is, if someone thinks that one, two, or 20 readings of a book of scripture is sufficient, they are missing a lot of what is available.

Many members of the church that are of the mind to read such are busy with mission, then straight into schooling, concurrent with marriage, kids, and then development of career or caring for young children. For most adult LDS, life is very busy, and making BoM study a priority is challenging enough let alone adding in one more source - esp a source that has to be carefully sorted through with discernment to identify falsehoods. It’s great when people have to time to study the apocrypha, but most are so anxiously engaged in living the Gospel daily that tangential study is rightly a low priority.

To further understand why there are differences between Catholic and LDS beliefs in relation to the sacrament: Those parts of the scriptures that defined the doctrine of covenants and covenant making were lost in before there was a chance for "Traditional Christianity" to form. Those understandings have been restored, hence the difference in doctrine.

Very intersting that this very topic was a part of my study this morning. There is a fundamental difference between Catholic and LDS views on this preciely because of differing views of the process of coming to God, or bringing the Spirit into our lives. As you pointed out, Catholic belive the Eucharist is a vehicle. LDS belive the vehicle is the covenant made through ordinances. Water vs wine, leavened or unleavend in white, wheat, or cracker doesn't matter. It is the covenant that is made that truly matters - this seems to be not too different from what you are saying about renewing baptisimal promises through the heart.

John Gottman's - Why Marriages Succeed or Fail . . . and how you can make yours last. From the back of the book:

No apology necesary from my perspective. I know I am at times I am less than desirable with presentation. You're a good man Paul.

Elder Oak's gave a great discourse on what constitutes a righetous judgement. See: Judge Not and Judging

Perhaps a potential scenario could flesh out possibilities for you. Let's pretend the issue is that Michelle's father was caught in adultery. Now . . . would Mom's distance make any sense? Would it make any sense that perhaps she is delving deeply into resources from the church on how to keep a marriage together despite the huge emotional wounds? Would it make any sense why, being such a private and senitive matter she might not want to discuss it? Mom's reaction could be very good thing - she could be sticking around trying to find a way to make it work. The problem is though, there is such a multitude of possibilities that to presume the mother is the issue is . . . well . . . presumptuous!!! For all you and we know, this may be the established patter of how mom and dad have dealt with major issues all their marriage - give it time and space, and let healing take place. Who are we to say that forcing two emotionally upset people into close contact is a good idea? [sarcasm]I just detest giving help or advice. That's why I never stray onto advice forums like this. [/sarcasm] Ha ha! Then you have never truly dealt with a stereotypical mother-in-law then. There is a reason for all those mother-in-law jokes. Perspective. Experience. You may think it's negative, but to me it's realistic. Some people may enjoy other's poking their nose into private business, but I'm of the belief that most people don't enjoy it at all. Hence again, the mother-in-law jokes. LOL. Yep. We don't know a thing about each other at all! Guess what Panos, I am lending a hand to you in what I feel is the best way (based on my paradigms) to go about this. You don't like the advice, so you see it as negative. So, how is that any different than mom walking away when someone tries to push something in her face she doesn't want to hear? Can you now see a tiny sliver of why offering unwanted advice is unproductive? It is so hard for the target to even hear it's value. Again, I think Michelle should stay out of trying to be a "solution". I think that is best for her, and best for her parents.

Panos . . . Do you even know what the real issue is? From what little you have shared, for all we can tell, mother's response is a perfectly healthy and normal coping mechanism allowing the relationship to survive while the issues are sorted out with the passage of time necessary to do so. It would be foolish of anyone here to jump in and offer advice not having any more details, esp any first-hand details of what actually is at issue. If she is as involved in studying her faith as you indicated, than she is well aware of LDS theological foundations for, and focus on, families, esp marriage. Meddling in the relationship, either by you or Michelle is a bad idea. How would you like Michelle parents being critical of aspects of your relationship with Michelle that they feel are less than ideal from their perspective? That is in essence what Michelle is doing. What you can do is help Michelle understand there are situations in life we can't control, can't do anything about. Help her as an (mostly) emotionally uninvested party to be a sounding board, a voice of reason, etc. And help her to keep from making her relationship with her parents, or her parents' relationship worse with meddling in other people's business.

1) If it truly is a fanaticism level as you seem to be thinking it is, then any advice is moot. Professional help is the necessary route. 2) How can strangers on a forum possibly offer sound advice based on third person recounting of an undefined problem? 3) Honestly, nyob. Couples have to sort out issues on their own. There likely exists many factors and pressures in their relationship that you have no clue about and will never be privy to. Meddling in other people's relationships is a good way to stir up trouble for yourself and others. 4) The intent to help is admirable, but if people want help, they generally will seek it out, and if they don't want help, than help offered is likely to be refused anyway.

Yet, you will turn around in the next sentence and advocate ignoring prophetic counsel? Seriously? wow As your Bishop is not here to give his side, and the side you have presented is contradictory to counsel given by leadership since Joseph Smith, it is more believable to internet observers that you are either mistaken in your understanding of what your Bishop said, or . . . ? But, as a disinterested observer, I refuse to admit hearsay of a highly questionable nature into my considerations of what really is going on. [and for any readers that may wonder if confessing to their spouse after cheating on them is advisable or not, this thread and the hearsay of one recounting is not prudent to be relied upon] How is it you have justified in your mind that you did not "offend" your husband with your choices and actions? Or, if you do believe that you have "offended" by cheating on him, how do you justify not confessing to those offended? How is it you can come to terms with the repentance requirement to confess to those offended, but not do so? Clearly, your confession to your Bishop was not sufficient to clear your conscious. Else why would you come onto a forum and broadcast your sins to thousands? Something is compelling you to act on confessing. But you are doing it in a "safe" way to people that have not as directly been offended by your actions as your husband. Seems like misplaced efforts to me. I'm guessing you haven't fully found the relief you were looking for in this course of action. It's a good first step, but, really, your efforts should be focused where it truly matters. Yet another rhetorical question for you to ponder - how do you reconcile your choice to hide (cover) your sin that it be not known with the above scripture? Do you think that confessing to someone, (including internet strangers) fully overrides the "covering" you are doing in not telling he who has the most right to know?Your husband will know eventually. You may keep it a secret until your grave, but that won't stop him from knowing eventually. How do you think his reaction will be then knowing that the intervening years were built on a falsehood? One last thought - if you think that the revealing of this matter will hurt your marriage, and if that is in fact true, do you think that the adversary will really assist you in keeping it secret? No, he will bring it to light at the worst possible time, when it will cause the most damage to your relationship. Better for you to control the timing than for other forces to do so on your behalf.

I would presume that such an attitude of pride would block the presence of, and the sensitivity to, the Spirit faster than one's anxious concern to do what is right.