volgadon

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Posts posted by volgadon

  1. Would that it were a strawman. Sadly, I am completely correct, and you are wrong.

    Britannica Online defines "socialism" as

    social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

    Yours is a special definition, however much you may stamp your foot and insist otherwise.

    Argument by dictionary, cute. You do realise that you have completely misread this, right?

  2. I know this thread is kind of snowballing; but my own interest revolves primarily around whether a state can implement socialist policy by means other than threat of force (even if that force is only as a last resort after Volgadon's proposals of fines, "voluntary" emigration, etc. are disregarded by the individuals being punished).

    What I posted holds true for any state. You even get to read such an example in Sunday School...

  3. The United Order is FAITH based... with those who choose to participate. It isn't compulsory. All things are shared, but through a shared moral code that each give according to their strengths.

    Because of that choice, it's easier to choose to build up Zion... than to have it forced amongst and throughout a country.

    One is choice; the other can be construed as slavery.

    You cannot legislate morality. But you can have a group of people who share strengths, talents and morality to build up a society.

    That can't be fabricated by man. The natural man will always find a way to dominate over another. It takes higher ideals than purely one's own self-interest.

    But it must be voluntary with a shared moral code. No moral code? It dissintegrates.

    there are plenty of examples of socialism which is voluntary and in which people share a goal, an ideal, and a moral code. It gets excruciatingly tiresome when people equate socialism with force, as it is obvious to me that I'm getting no further than I would with a brick wall.

  4. What details or factors would influence your answer?

    One factor, for instance, would be how much of a threat was posed. If said group was going to overthrow the state by force of arms, then of course harsher measures would have to be taken than otherwise.

    Other options include voluntary emigration, fines, and limitations.

    All of this, of course, would require a means for judicial appeal and also elections, to lessen the risk of abuses.

  5. Jim Rohn said "America is unique. It's a ladder to climb. It starts around $8/hour (today). If you're going to stay at the bottom, then maybe it should be higher. But that's a pitiful way to live - start and not grow? Start and not change? Start and not develop? Part of the mystery of life is to start #1, and to become better #2."

    You don't think that a low minimum wage impedes growth in the slightest?

  6. Sure, but this is your ideal socialist state. What do you think is the best means of enforcement?

    Not something I can answer as a pure hypothetical, especially with no details provided.

    (And I realize your own perspective might not necessarily jibe with the preferences of other socialist-sympathizers who may contribute here.)

    Of course. We aren't mindless drones.

  7. Lots of great (and not-so-great) fiction out there exploring how things could go. I wonder if people wrote fiction about the future of the British Empire in the 19th century?

    I'm trying to recall any before the early 20th c.

  8. Insulting to those in poor health? It is FACT. You don't even need to make scientific studies on it. Just walk down your grocery store. The cheapest things are the most unhealthy things. The nutritional ones are those in "special aisles" with high price tags. Why do you think that is?

    I mean, even dog food is amazingly ______ (can't find the word I need - idiotic?). The healthy food costs 3 times as much as the crap food. People don't have a problem with feeding their dogs Dog Chow.

    I actually agree with you on this point, that the healthy food is more expensive, but I disagree with you on the cassus.

  9. Of course secession is unconstitutional. You don't secede by suing somebody. Yo secede by a successful revolt.

    In today's climate, it might not be as bloody as the Civil War. There's a universal distaste for death even in war. And with Russia splintering, it's not too far-fetched to imagine America going that route. I don think it's going to happen, but you never know...

    Russia splintering? Haven't heard that.