Bini
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Posts posted by Bini
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2 minutes ago, Fether said:
“Prophets have always counseled us to dress modestly. This counsel is founded on the truth that the human body is God’s sacred creation. We must respect our bodies as a gift from God. Through our dress and appearance, we can show the Lord that we know how precious our bodies are.
Our clothing expresses who we are. It sends messages about us, and it influences the way we and others act. When we are well groomed and modestly dressed, we can invite the companionship of the Spirit and exercise a good influence on those around us.
Central to the command to be modest is an understanding of the sacred power of procreation, the ability to bring children into the world. This power is to be used only between husband and wife. Revealing and sexually suggestive clothing, which includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, and shirts that do not cover the stomach, can stimulate desires and actions that violate the Lord’s law of chastity.
In addition to avoiding clothing that is revealing, we should avoid extremes in clothing, appearance, and hairstyle. In dress, grooming, and manners, we should always be neat and clean, never sloppy or inappropriately casual. We should not disfigure ourselves with tattoos or body piercings. Women who desire to have their ears pierced should wear only one pair of modest earrings.” - LDS Gospel Library>Topics>TopicsWhat makes all that indecent, your chest, upper thighs, and butt cheeks hanging out. Whether it is skin or not, it’s still there for the works to see
Sexually suggestive clothing to who? Women function just fine at the pool or beach with shirtless men, but heaven forbid, a woman wears a bikini or tankini around men in the same circumstances. It is a harmful concept.
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1 minute ago, Fether said:
The argument you are making us absolutely idiotic. If we had it your way, modesty wouldn’t be a thing and men and women could walk around in underwear everywhere, cause apparently it isn’t your job to control the thoughts of men, but that isn’t what modesty is, even though you keep saying it is.
as quoted before “Modesty is an attitude of propriety and decency in dress, grooming, language, and behavior.”
Also
”Central to the command to be modest is an understanding of the sacred power of procreation, the ability to bring children into the world. This power is to be used only between husband and wife. Revealing and sexually suggestive clothing, which includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, and shirts that do not cover the stomach, can stimulate desires and actions that violate the Lord’s law of chastity.” - LDS gospel Library Topics
So yes, according to the Church if Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints, you do need to watch what you wear to help others keep their thoughts clean.
But it appears you are atheist so that doesn’t matter does it.
What makes walking around in underwear indecent? What makes walking around in swimmers indecent? What makes walking around in a sleeveless top or form-fitting skirt indecent?
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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:
It was never said that the guest coming over was a man.
You are right, my correction, we don't know if the guest is male.
Regardless of gender but especially opposite gender, this should not even be an issue.
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1 minute ago, Grunt said:
Some modesty is very easy to judge. Other forms of modesty, not so much. Modesty isn't just what you are, or aren't, wearing. It's also your reasons for wearing it, where it's worn, how you carry it, etc. You can ask a million different people and get a million different answers.
I agree you will get a million different answers but the dialogue should always be this: doesn't matter if I wear a bikini because I like showing my body off or if I wear a head-to-toe tunic because I don't want to show any skin -- whatever I'm wearing and for whatever reason -- I am not responsible for how men view me. I am not responsible for any thoughts they may or may not have. If "modesty" has nothing to do with this line of thinking, what is it then? How I choose to carry myself and how I choose to dress, is my business, it isn't the concern of my cable guy or my landlord or my male colleagues or even my boyfriend. The focus should be on learning how to regulate thoughts and feelings -- not tell people how to carry themselves and what to wear because someone might get a dirty thought. That is your problem. Don't project that onto me.
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Just now, Jane_Doe said:
From what I was understanding, the OP had a different level of dressed up perception than his wife did in this situation. He was then asking what other folks do.
*Bigger picture* @Bini, I am with you a million times over on the "I don't control your thoughts" camp. That drives me bonkers. I just don't see right now as being circumstance where that's what's going on.
What is the reason for her having to change clothes because a guest, specifically a man, is coming over? What is she supposed to be shielding him from?
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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:
I don't think the OP being describe is a "men vs woman" thing or sexual thing. But rather I'm seeing the question as "how do you dress in your own house when company comes over?" Not gender or sexuality specific.
When a husband tells a wife she should change clothes because his male friend is coming over, that is indeed, a gender bias and sexual thing.
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3 minutes ago, Grunt said:
That quote had nothing to do with "women". It has to do with us all as children of God and how we should glorify him, not our mortal selves.
Alright... But I'm not understanding how his wife is "glorifying" herself... Doesn't make any sense. That's a crazy assessment to me.
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Just now, Grunt said:
This snippet just reinforces the problematic issue of (primarily) women being responsible for men's thoughts and actions. "Do not draw undue attention to ourselves"? Really?
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Just now, Grunt said:
Nobody said they were. Saints are called to act and dress with modesty. Period. That's all.
What is modesty? What is the intent for that? To stop "unclean" thoughts that might lead to "sinful" actions. These are things that are the responsibility of, in this case, the friend who is coming over to visit. (Although it applies to everyone. We are responsible for our own thoughts and actions.) It is not everyone else's responsibility to stop me from having wandering eyes, thoughts, or committing certain actions. That is on me.
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Just now, Grunt said:
I'm sure it's up to the individual, but standards of modesty exist when we interact with each other, regardless of where we are.
Women are not responsible for the thoughts men have about their bodies. Their thoughts are their responsibility. Our bodies are not objects and therefore should not be treated as distractions. I disagree that OP's wife should have to change clothes for the sake of a man entering her domain -- her home -- her safe environment. Maybe OP should suggest to his friend that he either closes his eyes or doesn't sexualise his wife while he visits.
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I disagree. If I am comfortable with my body and feel comfortable in what I am wearing inside my own home, I am not going to change that for the sake of a guest, they can accept me as I am or we can schedule a meet up at another time. I think there is quite a difference between lounging around in your underwear or garments versus being shirtless or wearing a sleeveless tank top and shorts.
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I like Jane’s suggestions. Keep it simple, give a couple food choices, have him help prep or cook it, and he eats it or he won’t. I would keep in mind too that it must be hard on a child to be separated from his mum, and could be dealing with some distress manifesting through eating habits.
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I think sometimes we forget that children that age lack long attention spans, and as a society, we demand they function on our schedule whatever it be. I think this is wrong regardless if I Am Your Mother. Children, especially 5 and under range, are still learning how to observe what’s around them — register it — and regulate things like restlessness etc, etc. I think understanding that their brains are still developing is key, and having patience with them, and gradually introduce them to situations and expectations you’re needing of them.
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Is there a “culture” of this? Yes, in my experience, and I’ve lived inside Utah and outside Utah, even overseas. I have seen this issue of parents feeling guilt and shaming kids who seemingly go astray within the church all over the place. My best advice, tell him to check himself, and remind him that your children are adults and capable of making their own life decisions. He isn’t going to love or even like everything they choose to do.
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Most foods like this I eat by a random grab, but with M&M’s, I like to put 6 in the palm of my hand and in rainbow order: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, brown. Then I start at one end, doesn’t matter which, and eat one by one. I’ll keep doing this until the rainbow gets smaller. Idk just more fun, I guess.
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Just now, Vort said:
You would be sooooooo disappointed.
I haven't been around but that Vort pic hasn't been used in years... has it? I just remember it threw everyone off.
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Wow... speechless.
@Godless I appreciate your posts.
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I love spicy and I love heat, but not as much as someone I know, he eats the world's hottest chili peppers like it's nothing...
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On 5/24/2018 at 7:38 AM, anatess2 said:
Pretty much.
Okay, my 16- the new-old is such a speed reader he finished Mistborn on one school day. He gained speed reading skills through his video game - he's playing and tracking the conversation on the side so he has to read it fast before it scrolls off the page. From my observation, he only reads the main words and skips articles, linking verbs, etc. So it's like skimming on steroids - filtering out words that he can just plug with context. So, you know how people can still understand the paragraph written without a single vowel? Because we can pretty much add the vowel sound as we read all the consonants... it's kinda like that except we're taking out words instead of vowels.
My 14-year-old is also a speed reader. Same thing - video games. But he does his differently. He looks at a word as a picture instead of letters. I can't quite explain it. I worked really hard getting him to be good at spelling.
16-year old and 14-year old? Your boys aren't preteens anymore! 😮
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4 minutes ago, Vort said:
I might, too, if I weren't LDS. But I am LDS, and I consider chastity to be of prime importance. But I agree with you that the whole arrangement seems unhealthy, and not only from a moral chastity perspective.
I understand this. What I should add to my first comment is that most people cannot engage in intimacy without it emotionally/mentally messing with their head, and so in that context, I would strongly recommend that in order to avoid all of that, one would be wise not to reside in the same household with an ex-partner.
- mordorbund and Vort
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I'd be less concerned about sex and more concerned about emotional and mental stress from this arrangement.
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On 12/17/2017 at 10:27 AM, dahlia said:
So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church. I did it the first time, but not the 2nd. As it turns out, the brother in charge of cleaning schedules was standing in the foyer. To be polite, I told him I wasn't going to come. He asked me, "Can you explain?" What? OK, fine. I did it once. That's my commitment. I have to take an arthritis med before and after I do that assignment and I just don't feel like bringing on pain in order to clean the church.
I walk toward the door, and I'm so hot I turn around and go back. "I've already done it once, "I repeated. Then he says he's done it four times. I am supposed to be shamed into compliance? Did he expect me just to roll over and say I'll show up? I'm 64. I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something.
No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined. And people wonder why folks become less active.
I can relate to this, and the posts you made after this, although I did not read every single response. I do strongly feel there is a lot of misogyny and white privilege within the church, much of which isn't even realised, and when brought to attention, is brushed off and suddenly you're the one overreacting. I'm sorry you experienced this.
Do you bother dressing modestly at home?
in General Discussion
Posted
Of course, our bodies are not the same. But men are held accountable just as much as women are, yes? Someone, please explain to me why the female body is sexualised and the male body is not.