justaname

Isnt the ideal government a theocracy? Is that what Christ will have upon his return?

I didnt really know what to title this thread. I dont want this to become a debate about same sex marriage or a bunch of legalese. Basically I want to know how members of the LDS church feel about the issue and how they feel this affects our country and our future. By promoting the recent court decision, are you participating in the destruction of our nation and in the prophecies? Our church has asked us to support prop 8, and many members do not. Should we take this as counsel from a prophet of God or follow our own legal and social philosophies?

This is one topic Im not going to share my opinion on. Just wanting to get different views. Do you feel conflicted at all supporting same sex marriage legally though not morally? Do you feel that as the separation of church and state becomes more apparent, that we become a better nation? Why? In the Book of Mormon and in the Bible, church and state were often the same. Prophets were also kings. Which way is better and why? Is the legalization of same sex marriage a step closer to the prophesies concerning "the end"?

Im going to make this short and sweet. A couple of questions: 1. What reasons would an active LDS person have for promoting the strike of Prop. 8? 2. If you find yourself promoting same sex marriage, at what point do you become ineligible or a temple recommend because of this temple recommend question: "Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?"

This post is great. Let me translate your passive aggressive statement: "Let us take justaname for example. This here is the perfect example of a "good member" who justifies the counsel of an apostle. Justaname's wife ignored this counsel and therefore committed the sin of coveting. This "good member" sinned and therefore caused other people to sin. Let us not be like the justanames." You talk about sociological impacts of peoples choices relative to breast implants, but you ignore the sociological impacts of the high and mighty members judging us "worldly" members. Do you realize that your judging and pointing fingers at these women, and the men they are married to, is just as damaging to the spirit in a ward? Why is it sad that men are attracted to normal to large size breasts? Is it better to be attracted to smaller breasts? Physically, Im attracted to a fit woman with average to large breasts. Maybe this is because this is what Hollywood wants me to be attracted to. Maybe if I was born in Samoa Id be attracted to a large woman, but that would be because I was culturally inclined to be attracted to large women. Either way, Im sinning right? Matthew, do you really think a guy that drives a Porsche is not fit for Zion? The guy drives a Porsche which means he has money. According to your logic, that means he has money left over and should be giving it to the rest of the members. How do you know he is not doing that? It's called fast offerings and we are told the formula for how to calculate what we should give, but we have also been counseled to be generous with our offerings. Let me clue you in on something, unless you are the finance clerk in your ward, you really have no idea what this guy is donating to fast offerings. (I know this is a fictitious Porsche driver but bear with me.) There is a guy in my ward who drives a really, really nice car. So does his wife. He also happens to donate a significant amount of money to our ward mission fund. Each month he donates double the amount of my mortgage to fast offerings. I know Im going to sound arrogant here, but Im already a sinner so who cares, but my mortgage isnt cheap. Beyond his financial contributions to our ward and our missionaries, he is a spiritual giant. If I was half the man and priesthood holder he was, Id feel ready to meet my Maker. I could go on and on about this individual and the man he is, but Id rather keep a little anonymity for myself and for him. Im rambling, so Ill summarize: -God is our judge and he judges righteously. -Fellow members think they are judges and judge poorly. -God looketh upon the heart, not upon the breasts or the car. -Remember the beam.

Before I comment further, let me publicly state that I do take this issue personally so my views are likely slanted. My wife has implants. I have had plastic surgery myself. We are what the OP has referred to as "good" members. I dont know what that connotation means. Perhaps it is suggested that we are perceived as good because we come to church, pay our tithing, do our home/visiting teaching and maintain callings and have temple recommends. Or maybe we are considered "good" because she has had implants and I have had plastic surgery. The reference to "good" mormons/members makes me think that the OP is implying that we are putting on a show by going through be motions but because we have chosen to modify our bodies we are no longer good. Is that what is being said or am I misinterpreting? Either way, Ill choose not to be offended. I want to collaborate on what the OP has indicated may be happening when it comes to the social impact of having breast implants. She is indeed correct that there are social impacts. After having our first child, my wife considered getting implants. After finding out that one of her friends and co-leaders in the YW had them done, she decided she would do it. She considered it for a long time but feared she might lose her calling or people would think poorly of her. After seeing that someone else that had implants was still in YW and had a great reputation in the ward, she decided to do it. Since having that done, other women have asked her about it. Many of them have found comfort in the fact that a "good" member has done it and they have decided to do it too. So yes, in a small nutshell, people do validate their behavior based on other peoples actions. I guess what bothers me so much about this particular topic is the fact there is a notion that a woman who has breast implants or wants them is somehow less than a woman who chooses not to. With some, there is clearly an indication that these women have somehow sinned or have succumbed to the natural man and are hell bent on their appearance beyond all else. For any of you who think this, whether you admit it or not, shame on you. There is no stereotype of a woman who gets implants. Not all of them are seeking the attention of men or women, or seeking the cover of Cosmo. They are not all heading down to Golds in their new little sports bra's to show their new purchase. Some of them might be, but not all of them are. Some of you have said that this procedure is ok if its the result of cancer or other disfiguring issue. How is this situation any different than the routine implants? A woman who has lost her breasts to cancer is wanting nothing more than to look and feel like a woman. Having the implants after cancer is likely (I say likely because am no surgeon) not going to recreate the woman's ability to breast feed. So what is she having the implants for? Is it not to look like a woman and restore that same feeling she had before she lost her breasts? In the case of my wife, she didnt have much there to begin with. When she breastfed, she lost what little she had. So, like a cancer patient, she wanted a feeling of restoration. She wanted to look like a woman again. Yes, I said the word "look". It is about looking like a woman, which in turn makes her feel like a woman. It is not the ONLY think that makes her feel like a woman, but it is something. In both scenarios, the surgery is performed to enhance the body and is based on a view that women are supposed to have breasts. Yes there are some that decide to get stripper boobs. I wont speak for that. The very idea that someone who alters their appearance to satisfy the cultural view of beauty, is a "sinner" is utterly ridiculous. For anyone who disagrees with me, I beg you. . . go to church this week with your hair undone, your make-up off and put on your brown boots with your black skirt. Its all part of a show that every single one of us does every day to feel attractive and beautiful. Some obsess about it and others do not. Those who obsess probably should focus on something more righteous. Those who do not obsess about it still do something everyday to enhance their appearance. This doesnt make them a sinner. If a girl in the YW in our ward has decided to get a boob job because my wife did, so what. Let her get a boob job. No one has said the boob job is wrong. What is wrong is defining yourself by vanities and worldliness. If she lets her boobs define who she is, that's her fault and no one elses. If you want to think that someone who gets a boob job is less of a woman, thats your choice and you will answer for it. How will you answer for it? I dont know. Not my call.

This is simply not true. My wife has implants and breastfed all three of our children. The last two were post implants. There are several ways of performing the surgery, a couple of which still maintain a woman's ability to breastfeed.

Weightlifting is about the only sport/activity that I take them off for. On occasion I take my shirt off to mow the lawn and get yard work done. Probably not a good time since I take it off only to get a tan and cool off. Is there an issue with wearing one half w/o the other? Like if I do the yard work w/o the top, is there any reason not have the bottoms on?

Tarnished, you need to post something. Anything. Say hello, goodbye, share a joke, bear your testimony, or pretend you just won an Oscar. You have an unlucky # of posts. =)

Just a personal experience. . . I was called into the EQ presidency a while back while having a fairly long goatee. The SP member who extended the call asked me if I would shave it off. I told him Id think about it and ask my wife. (She likes it on me). Asking why I was hesitating about doing it, I told him that I felt it had no bearing on my ability to perform the calling and didnt prevent the EQ from submitting my name. He told me to go home and fast and pray about it. I did, and I spoke with my wife about it. I decided to trim it down, using a #1 clipper guard. When I showed up for church that day, the SP was there to set us all apart. When it was my turn, the SP member who extended the call leaned down to ask my full name, and said, "You look great, thanks for accepting the call. I know you will do great." I have since served in other callings where the clean shaven look is preferred, but I have kept my goatee, though I keep it closely trimmed and always maintained. No one has said anything since.

Where did you get this picture? Do you know this guy? I think I do. I met a guy on my mission that had the same tats on his back. He also has the 1st principles and ordinances of the gospel on his fingers and Adam-Ondi-Ahman (sp?) on his shoulder. He drove a VW bug that has mountains of church literature in the back seat. Interesting dude.

You are obviously more interested in picking apart my comments rather than understanding the spirit of what I am trying to say. I made my opinion clear and have no need to defend it. Thats the lovely thing about opinions, they are neither true nor false. Ill let you get back to reading the handbook and preparing for your bishopric calling. Good luck brother.

All we should do is aspire to be worthy of any call we might receive. Aspirations of worthiness and aspirations to positions are totally different. To be prepared for a calling is equal to being worthy for the calling. A worthy priesthood holder who has served in the nursery and in the activities committee is prepared for a leadership calling because he was called of the Lord to fill it. A man who has served as EQ president, clerk etc, etc, is not prepared because he has spent years reading the bishop's handbook, but because he was called of the Lord. I dont believe in planning for, preparing for, or speculating about specific callings. I worry about being worthy to hold what calling I am asked to fill and depending on the Lord for guidance as I strive to magnify it. I cant help but think of Sidney Rigdon and Joseph Smith. Sidney had all the right tools to lead a church. He was charismatic, a great speaker, knowledgeable about the scriptures, and already had experience leading a church. You all know Joseph was not those things. Yet Joseph was the one who was called to restore the church and perform this great work. When Joseph died, it was Rigdon and his followers who dissented because they thought Rigdon was more qualified and prepared. After all, he was in the 1st Presidency wasnt he? Did Rigdon speculate, plan for, use reason, and consider the fact that he may fill Joseph's role? Did Rigdon aspire to be the prophet? Yes, he did and it got him nowhere. It was Brigham Young, a carpenter and blacksmith, that was called to fulfill the role. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would hope for, aspire to, plan for, or speculate about any future calling they may receive. Just aspire to worthiness and you will be called to the position that will be best for you and the ward that you are serving in.

Yes, I do hate it. Its arrogant and presumptive. Spouting off your callings sounds like you are putting together a resume for a bishop's application. Its disgusting. Your patriarchal blessing is not a fortune telling. Those promises will be fulfilled only if you are worthy or humble enough to receive them. Never once have I heard a bishop stand up after receiving his calling state, "I have been groomed for this calling since I was 10. Everyone told me I would be a bishop. I have been planning on it for years, and I finally got it." Feel free to tell your congregation that when you achieve your goals. Im sure you will be well supported. Your post is seriously unbelievable. May the Lord steer me away from your ward boundaries.

Careful man, you havent reached 1,000 posts yet so your opinion doesnt count yet. Thanks for playing though! Its funny. . . I came here about a year ago wanting some help on a challenge I was facing. People were quick to give advice and it was so helpful. Then I disagreed with an elitist and got hammered by all the cronies. Im so glad that this elitism is limited to this forum and not the members that I interact with on a personal level.