Saturnfulcrum

Do I question my faith? yes Do I believe that sometimes we are led astray? Yes Do I believe that people are human and make mistakes? Yes Do I believe that there is truth everywhere? Yes Do I believe that all religions have some sort of truth? Yes Do I believe science is truth? Sometimes. Science is an amazing tool, but we also have to remember that science is based on theories. Think about what people knew about the world, our bodies, and space 300 years ago. Not much. Science evolves as the more information we gather. Historically, the discovery of DNA is relatively recent, but DNA has been there since the beginning of life on this Earth. Remember learning in school that light is always constant? That dinosaurs had skin? That Pluto was a planet? Light does not travel at a constant rate, therefore all the science based on that idea an innaccurate assumption that light is constant. According to some new textbooks, historians believe that dinosaurs had feathers. I'm not sure how they're able to prove this, considering that the only real proof that dinosaurs existed at some point on this planet are the bones left behind, but that's what they're saying. And Pluto...poor Pluto will always be a planet in my heart. Science, logic and history change. They change once we learn more, think more, understand more. God does not change. I believe that God is an unchanging and unwavering God. From the very beginning of the bible, the doctrines we have today were taught. The priesthood has, and always will be on this Earth. The doctrines of the gospel will always be the same, but sometimes the applications are different. For example: the Israelites were given the law of Moses and a law of health was given inside that law. Do not eat swine. From what I understand, to save the meat of an animal you cannot eat in one meal, you can make jerky out of it. We do know from historical writings that making jerky was common practice. They would take the extra meat and lay it out to dry. It would shrivel, dry and turn into jerky. Ever done that with a pig? I wouldn't recommend it. You'd be dead the next day. In this case, science is true. Lay a pig out to dry and try to make jerky: your dead. I've always wondered if the Israelites ever put that one to the test. They probably learned really quickly. Our law of health today is the Word of Wisdom. It's definitely not as specific at the one given in the law of Moses because we now know and have ways to clean, sanitize and keep our food good for longer periods of time. The Lord's law of health has changed, but has his view of murder? No. Has His view of chastity? No Has His view of keeping the Sabbath day holy? No I am gay. I'm attracted to women. It's been a struggle, especially since prop 8. Sometimes I wonder why it's not alright to like someone of the same gender. Sometimes I wonder why it's not alright in the Lord's eyes to marry someone of the same gender. In the end, I'm reminded of two things: God loves me no matter who I'm attracted to and if there are two genders on this Earth, there's probably a very good reason for it. God has said from the beginning that homosexual relationships are not alright in his eyes and God is an unchanging God. It hurts sometimes, because I feel like there's no hope for me, but my desire to live with my Heavenly Father again overrides my attraction to women. Is it fair? No. But we all have struggles in our lives that we must overcome, and coming to terms that me being attracted to women is not all of who I am. I am a person who breathes, loves, plays, cries, hopes, dreams, struggles, laughs and is surrounded by people who accept and love me for who I am. That includes Heavenly Father. Do I believe this Gospel is true? Yes. It's been a long, hard struggle to reach this point, but I do believe it is the most complete truth on this Earth today. Everything that you have mentioned I have questioned myself and in the end, everything in my mind points to that there is a God. I am not a mistake of a big bang (which has also recently been disproved). I am not a freak accident that just happened to spawn from a single-cell bacterium. Everything in this world had to have been created by someone. It's too beautiful and miraculous to have just happened by accident. God exists because I am here on this Earth learning about him. I am learning about His plan, His will and His goals for me in this life. I am a child of God and he has sent me here to learn to be just like Him. To be perfect just like Him. You are not alone. Continue to find the answers for yourself. I still am. All of us still are. And if you ever feel like someone is trying to tear you down for any reason, I would suggest not being around them anymore. Usually those who try to tear others down, and those who attack others beliefs are not happy about themselves. There is something in their life that they don't like and try to pull others down to their levels of unhappiness. Do try to lift them up though, but if they don't want to listen, then you can't force them to listen. Hope this helps.

Sure I believe in ghosts. I've been followed by a few myself. I'd say "haunted", but that seems too strong of a word. Usually all they do is follow me until I acknowledge them. I ask them what they want (and if anyone happenes to be around they all think I'm crazy:P), and they usually leave me alone after that. I must be a boring target. Oh well. I don't normally "see" ghosts, or spirits, or whatever you want to call them, but I have seen them two or three times. One of the times I'm still not quite sure. The other two were both terrifying. I usually feel them, so seeing them (for me) means something major is going down soon. I feel them once or twice a year, and usually when I'm making a decision dealing with my salvation, so I'm definitely not a ghost whisperer (as cool as that would be). I've always figured that most of the hauntings shown on tv are either fake, or is one of Satan's followers just having some fun. Maybe it's old friends playing pranks. Who knows. But hey, if I die before my friends, they all gave me permission to haunt them. I'd do it too if I could because that would be awesome. :)

We have this joke between my friends (both married and single) and I that for the first year and a half of marriage, the newly weds are "dead to the world". And it's true. Whenever a friend got married, my parting words were 'see you in a year and a half!'. They always denied that it would happen. Once they got out of that year and a half 'honeymoon' stage, they admitted that yes, they were dead to the world. So you call it a black hole, I call it temporary death. :) It's there, but you just take the change by the horns and send them a facebook post every other month or so. You might get lucky and get a reply back!

Not sure about this butch cut your talking about because I've seen girls at college wear the exact same cut and some looked 'butch' while the others looked feminine... Anyway, most of the girls in my second to last student ward up at college had short hair. I felt like the minority (and unfeminine) with my middle length hair! Whoda thunk?

So...does that mean Lois Lane is Mary Magdalene? I mean, if we were going to base it off the logic of Dan Brown and The DaVinci Code, it'd make perfect sense right?

Back to the original question... I enjoy scary movies, but they have to have a good storyline. My new favorite right now is A Haunting In Connecticut because it made the family in the movie stronger after the haunting stopped. (Yeah, I'm a sap for happy family movies.) I'm not a slasher-movie fan though. My friends told me about this movie called 28 Days Later and we rented it last week. Half way through I realized it was rated R (they never told me the rating), just because it went from 'awesome storyline' to 'lets blow up people just cuz we can. Oh, and lets drop the F bomb every other word too, just for for kicks and giggles!' Yeah, It had so much potential too... I also love watching shows like Ghost Hunters because hey, would YOU want to spend the night in a creepy old castle that used to hold prisoners and ground their tortured bones into the concrete used to make the castle walls? My answer is no, but if someone wants to do it and document it for me then hey! I get a scary show AND a documentary about the history of the place without actually being there! I DO have to admit that with some of those ghost hunting and scary story telling shows, I have felt a dark and icky feeling come over me, and usually in that case its because of the history of the horrific things that happened in that place. Did I feel the spirit leave? Yes. Every time this happened it proved to me that yes, there is real evil in this world...that real human beings can truly stray so far from the spirit that awful things can happen. I tend to turn off the program because I don't like feeling icky. Most of the scary movies are based off a legend or semi-logical theories of 'what if's. *spoilers for some movies ahead!* The Skeleton Key was based off of a religion that was started by slaves in the south and spun into a storyline that would scare people. 28 Days Later was practically I Am Legend, but with blowing up people and zombie-like humans puking up massive amounts of blood. I still can't figure out how even a 'humanoid being' can throw up that much blood without actually dying... A Haunting In Connecticut is about a family who has to move to Connecticut because their eldest son is dying of cancer and it starts tearing the family apart. The Village is about a group of people who were upset with the way humanity was heading, so they created their own community to try and shelter their posterity from the horrors of life. The Ring is about a mother and son who watch a haunted video tape of a deceased girl who just wanted her story to be heard. Psycho is about a series of murders that happen at a small motel off the main road in California just outside of Las Angeles. Its a race against time to find proof that the murderer did it before more unsuspecting motel stayers disappear with no trace. Saw (at least the first few, not sure about the new ones), as much as a slasher movie it is, is about a man who is dying from cancer and is angry that people take life for granted, so he puts these people into situations where they have to decide if they want to live or not. Never really going to watch this series. Too slashy for me. So some of these movies I would highly recommend because they have good story lines, even if their intent is to scare you. Most of them have great morals (as mentioned before), and honestly, the scary movies you hear about the most are those that actually have substance to them. Are they against the Church? Some are, some aren't. Just depends on the subject matter. I'm sure the brethren have seen one or two scary movies in their lives. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't watch it. They aren't a problem unless they overtake your life and you start believing that witches/undead/fire breathing dragons/flesh eating zombies exist. But then again, some people believe Harry Potter, Eragon, and James Bond are real so...

I liked that idea about having everyone in the group discussing scriptures they don't quite understand. Having many people from different faiths and different backgrounds might give some insight on the scripture. It could be very interesting. I know I'm always up for a new interpretation. :) You could even discuss favorite stories. People tend to get excited when they share a favorite story with someone else. That and have everyone bring their favorite scripture. You could also do a testimony/thankamony-like thing where everyone is allowed to say what they believe and what they're thankful for. You could also give out 'assignments' weekly/daily/how ever often you meet. Something simple like 'do something nice for someone you don't know', 'look around and notice who's looking lonely today' or even something like 'smile at as many people as you can'. You never know what a smile can do for someone. Also, you can have attendees put in names of people they want to be prayed for. I'm sure a lot of Christians do this in their churches and would greatly appreciate that someone their age is willing to pray for a person they've never met. Always remind the others to respect different beliefs! You'll learn very quickly who likes to cause debates, so just be aware that things could quite possibly get heated. This is a really neat idea. Good luck!

I always thought Jesus first appeared to Mary because she was the most faithful, not to mention she just happened to be at the tomb at that time. If Peter was at the tomb at that time, I'm sure Christ would have appeared to him just like he did to Mary. I cant remember if this is true or not, but I thought Mary and the other women were at the tomb first thing the day after the sabbath. If she was there first thing in the morning, then wouldn't that make her one of the most devoted to him? She even asked the 'gardener' if she knew where the 'thieves' had stolen the body, she didn't give up looking for Christ even when she didn't recognise him. I'd say Mary was definitely a strong and faithful member, dare I say more than the apostles at that time? Who knows. All we have is an abridgement of Christ's and his apostles' ministry. We have no idea. I'm not touching the wedding at Cana debate. You guys seem to be doing pretty well at that one :) Who was Mary? A devout follower of Christ. Was she a prostitute? According to the talks I've read and sections of Talmage that I could understand without a dictionary, probably not. Was she married to Christ? Who knows. Was Christ married? I personally think yes, but who knows. Maybe he was married to some super cool woman that isn't mentioned (like there is no direct mention of Heavenly Mother). Maybe he was married to Mary. I've always wondered what Christ did outside the temple that Wednesday before He was crucified, maybe he got married then? Just throwing maybes out there.

Careful there, Brahma might send his super secret ninjas after you if he finds out you've been talking that way about him.

wait wait wait. You don't believe in Brahma? We're gonna have some problems here.

I believe it's the intent. I've talked to a few converts and anti-mormons and they all said the same thing. They all said at some point in ther interest in the church, "Lord, if this church is true, show me a sign." The only difference between the converts and the anti-mormons was how they said it. Those who were converted were really looking for an answer, those who didn't were not. Zacharias and Mary both questioned Gabriel when he appeared to them, and yet Zacharias became mute and Mary was given an answer. Why? Because Zacharias was disbelieving and Mary was asking in sincerity (and probably really curious about how she could have a child without being with a man. I would be too.) If you are looking for a sign, and are honestly, truely, looking for it, it will appear because you are LOOKING. If you are looking for a sign because you think God should answer to YOU, he'll send one, you just wont see it. Or he might hit you over the head. Whichever he feels is more appropriate. About the science thing: I took an anatomy class in high school and after dissecting cats for 6 weeks straight I was truely convinced that God existed and my testimony grew tremendously. Why? Because the more I looked at the muscles, organs, veins, bones, etc., the more I saw that our bodies are perfect. How could I be part of a star that spontaneously combusted on itself and expect to end up so perfectly? Yet others became agnostic. Why? Personally I think it was because they were so focused on the worldly aspects of the body that they started to doubt (but then again, this IS high school.) The great thing about science is that its constantly improving and changing. I believe God is a god of science. Think back to what we knew 100 years ago vs. now. Science is CHANGING. It amuses me that people say "the bible can't be true because this cant be proven scientifically". Well, 400 years ago scientists were just discovering bacteria. Back then bacteria couldn't be proven scientifically until the microscope was invented. Does it mean bacteria didn't exist? Of course not. The history channel came out with a documentary about Moses and the Plagues. Science PROVED that yes, all those plagues could have happened at the same time IN A WAY that was described in the bible. The only thing they are still unsure about is how the first born died when the door frame wasn't painted in blood. There are theories about this (some not even dealing with the door frame), but they're interesting. Some people (like my mom) think this documentary is an attack on faith because it's trying to 'degrade' the miracles Moses did but personally, I think its cool that people are trying to prove that the bible is true, including how the miracles could work scientifically. I firmly believe that science can prove every miracle in the Bible and the Book of Mormon AND that God exists, we just don't have the technology yet. :)

too bad there are 10 pages missing (including what the savior said to the disciples AND what he said to mary about her vision.) Was the story about the soul even connected to her vision or was it something else? lol we have no idea. Although reading what's still there in the gospel of mary, I really didn't see how it points to her and the Savior being anything more than really good friends or close like brother and sister...but I might just be a skeptic.

Now i really feel guilty for even posting about my homosexuality in the first place. This thread was created because of it, and I feel like I opened a can of worms that shouldn't have been opened in the first place. I may be whining...but really, have we had a discussion about SSA being a special adversary in a while? I didn't think discussions involved picking apart and dissecting people's posts just to point out fallacies and mis-worded statements... I might be reading too much into the posts and feeling animosity when there isn't, but I haven't felt the spirit in this discussion in a while. I could have stopped reading, but I keep getting emails telling me people have written on this thread...and so naturally I read to see what was added. As the homosexual person who caused 24 pages of debate...can we close this thread now?

I believe I would prefer my sexual organs to stay intact. I'd feel...awkward to have extra room in my body where the organs should be. That being said, I would hope that couples would still be attracted to each other in the next life. I'm sure Heavenly Father is attracted to Heavenly Mother in every way possible. It would be silly if they weren't wouldn't it?

you are a tuff potato. You Crazy! You would make an awesome drill sargent.

I mean did one person get offended then it just caught on?

I've always wondered what made a swear word a swear word? If it's been around for a long time, what made it a swear? Does anyone know?

If it makes you feel better Local, I've been skipping over a lot of what Finrock and MOE have been arguing about these past few pages. Not because I don't find it interesting, but because they're using big words and I really can't understand what they're saying. It sounds political, and I never could follow politics very well. That and to me they sound like debaters on a debate team, and I usually fall asleep when I hear/read debates... No offence to you guys of course, I just really can't follow what your saying. I'm just not smart enough. How about we all take a calm breath, say a prayer and start over? We're getting hurt feelings on this thread guys, mostly from us who ARE struggling with SSA. Either that or close the thread. I really do feel guilty for posting my earlier thread because all this arguing came from my post about me trying to come to terms with my SSA. I probably shouldn't have done that considering that this has turned into a political debate on who's argument has straw men, false accusations and any other literary term you guys use to destroy arguments. Forgive me. For all of those who posted their opinions, thank you. It really does help us to know all the different opinions out there about homosexuality being a special adversary or not (that IS what this thread is about right...?). We really need the encouragement from you in our struggles, and we will definitely help you through yours if you ever need someone. I love you all and say this with all the love I have. ~SF

I'm feeling slightly guilty for posting my 'coming out' thread now... From a person who really wants to marry and have a family of her own, yes, I feel that being homosexual is a special struggle because I am physically able to have children, it just grosses me out to think of me having sex with a man. There has only been one man that I felt like I could actually have sexul relations with, but that is no longer in the picture. I want to be married in the temple, sealed to a man for time and all eternity and have my own children. But as much as I want, pray, kick, scream and plead with my heavenly father to be attracted to men, it just hasnt happened. It would not be fair if I married a man who I was not attracted to, and then try to have kids with him. It would really damage our relationship because I could not enjoy the one act that is supposed to bring us closer together. It also hurts when people say "it is selfish to not have your own kids when you are able to" I know that this is not directed at me completely, but it still hurts. Once again, I can physically have children, but I'm not physically, emotionally or mentally attracted to men. I may have a selfish desire to want to be with a woman, but does that still make me selfish if I want my own kids but it grosses me out to be with a man? I want to do the right thing, but would it be right to marry a man just to have kids? is being homosexual a struggle? yes. Is it a special struggle? Yes. Are there other speicial struggles out there? Yes. Obviously God allowed me to experience this struggle because He feels I can handle it. I just wish He didn't trust me so much. I really hope that one day I'll be able to be married and sealed in the temple to a loving husband who I love back. Right now that's all I can do: hope. This may never go away. It hurts to think that I might never experience a family setting of my own in this life, but I really do have to trust the Lord. Everyone does when they reach that struggle in their life when it seems too much to bear. As much as I want to be straight, I am learning a lot about myself that I wouldn't have otherwise.

your right crazypotato. Forgive me for my outburst AintNoCityGuy.

I may just be looking for attention with this post, but now that I know I am disgusting, I think I'm glad that you are not God AintNoCityBoy. I may be disgusting, but I know God loves all of his children. That includes those who parade down the streets. I believe it includes those who create pornography, do the right things, slander, insult, build up others, murder and all others who have sins, weaknesses, temptations and strengths. I know that I deserve God's love just as much as you do, even though sometimes I don't feel like it. I have feelings towards the gender that doesn't agree with God's plan, but I guess God trusted me with this attraction, so I have to deal with it because God knows I can. And I'm sorry if this post offends you, because after all, I am disgusting and just want attention.

First I have to confess that I posted a thread earlier this year about one of my friends struggling with homosexuality...well that friend was actually me. (I hope I dont get kicked off of here for that...) I know that the atonement is for everyone and God loves us all individually...but I feel so lost right now. I don't know what I'm doing with my life and my gender attraction really isn't helping. I have been struggling with homosexual tendencies since before I can remember, but I didn't recognize that it could really damage my testimony until I came up to college 3 years ago when I actually had to room with other girls (I'm an only child so I never had to live with other girls). Yes, I know its a weakness. Yes I know it could lead to sin if I ever acted upon those tendencies, but I feel so alone. I just read Happyguy's post and it really unsettled me because right now my testimony is waivering and I feel like I really could head down that direction later in life. This semester all of my guy friends were off track and so I was constantly around girls (which really was hard because I'm attracted to a couple of them) and my 'girly hormones' (you know, those super emotional ones?) decided to kick in and my attraction for girls completely exploded. I've had to walk to my classes with my eyes glued to the floor. I've tried to make more guy friends but it just hasn't happened. My honest questions: did I do something wrong in the pre-existence? Did I do something wrong as a child? I don't feel like I'll ever be attracted to the opposite gender...will these tendencies honestly go away when I die? Will I really be a great person that my patriarchal blessing says I can be? Right now I can't see how I can be anything more than a struggling daughter of God who likes other daughters of God... I really do believe this church is true...but this is so hard to deal with. All the devotionals and sacrament meetings about marriage (Yes, I do go to a BYU school), friends talking about boy troubles (at least I dont have those lol), dating, friends getting engaged, parents slightly upset that they might not get grandchildren... Is ther honestly a place for me in the celestial kingdom if I'm not even attracted to the right gender?

Back to the original topic... I was taught by amazing YW leaders to date only young men who were good, honest, worthy and treated you with respect. I also had some not-so-hot YW leaders that told us to only date RMs. I say not-so-hot NOT because they were horrible or we didn't get along. I say it because to me it seemed like they were generalistic in their views of what an RM is. Just because he/she is a returned missionary, doesn't mean he/she is a returned missionary. To me, if I want to marry a worthy RM, I have to be a worthier RM in actions, deeds and thoughts, especially if I wasn't able to serve an offical mission for the Church. My mom married my dad who was a non-member and 16 years later my dad joined the Church. If anyone deserves the Celestial Kingdom, it's my dad (and this is a completely un-biased on my part) because he is the most caring, sweet, and happy man. He went through a lot of hardships in his life and still turned into the wonderful man he is today. My mom received the impression to marry him even though he wasn't a member, and my grandma said that when she first met my dad at a family gathering, she knew that he would be her son-in-law, and she didn't even know he WASN'T a member! My dad was a good, honest, worthy and respectful man even thought he wasn't a member. I guess I have sort of a unique view of 'dating within the church'. I say if possible, date those who are in the Church. I also say date people who share the same beliefs and goals that you do. My mom did the latter and married the wonderful man that is my dad today. The Lord knows more about you than you do. He knows what you can become and how far you can go in the eternities. If I was a young womens leader and was asked to tell my girls what to look for in a man, it would be just like what my amazing young women leaders told me: date only young men who are good, honest, worthy and treat you with respect. If this includes RM status, it's a bonus. If not, then when you two grow old, wrinkly and shriveled, turn both of yourselves into RMs :)

I have only heard men say that women are the more righteous gender. I wonder if they were trying to make me feel better?

I'm not sure if I picked my own weaknesses and trials, but I do know that we had personalities in the pre-existance. I'm sure we had personality weaknesses there that transfered over to this life. I have been told in a couple blessings that I was aware of my trials before I came to earth, but that doesnt necessarily mean i hand picked them. I also like to think that my patriarchal blessing is a letter to myself through Heavenly Father because I could see what I'd be getting myself into in this life...as well as what weaknesses would give me problems. But then again, this is all speculation on my part. No scriptural background on my part. Sorry.