mrmarklin

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Posts posted by mrmarklin

  1. Think of this in context. 

    Jehovah was the God of the Old Testament, and I'm sure the average member of the Church didn't think much past that.  Most people even now, aren't that technical.

    In modern times, even among us Church members we refer to God all the time.  But most people don't really think through which member of the Godhead they are referring to.

  2. 49 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

    Every time I see the title of this thread I envision what my new church uniform might be. I mean I already wear a white shirt to church. But maybe something like my dress blues from the Air Force? Or the Marines dress blues. That was always classy looking.

    Here near Silicon Valley, the only people wearing white shirts and ties are members of our Church..................

    Not even Lawyers (except in Court) or Bankers.....................

  3. Change is constant.  Here in the Bay Area region of Northern California we went from four Wards in my city to one in less than 40 years.  A lot of Stake and Ward boundaries were changed, and the biggest chapel in my city is for sale.

    A couple of cities south of me a mega chapel was completed in the late 80s.  It was designed to have 4 wards and also be a major Stake HQ.  Only one ward there now.

    All you rich Utah Valley and Silicon Slope Mormons should migrate here.  Much better weather.  We need your talent.

  4. On 1/18/2024 at 12:03 AM, askandanswer said:

    In another thread it was suggested that there might be some problems in the church. Maybe there are, maybe there aren't, I don't know. But what I do know is that if there are problems in the church they're not my problems, they're God's problems, because its His church, and its for Him to solve them, not me. I just need to keep doing what I've always been doing, but do it more and better because I still see the occasional hint of an imperfection in myself (an almost imperceptible hint :)). I feel no need to get engaged or involved in whatever problems there might be. They're not my problems. 

    Of course the Church has problems.  Who doesn't?  The Church has millions of members, and its doctrines try to help solve their problems.

    In many senses Life is about problem solving on a daily basis.    How am I going to afford to repair my car that left me stranded on a busy freeway?  How am I going to deal with the teacher that treats my child unfairly?  I could go on and on, but you get the point.

    Don't worry, the Lord has called on people to solve these "problems" whatever they are.

  5. The only real way to know about the things of God are spiritually, by prayer.  Only the faith of the 1847 Pioneers got them across the Plains to Utah.  That faith was hard earned through Prayer.

    The invitation of Moroni:

    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

    5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.

  6. Mr Jones, the education system segregates people in Germany and is difficult to overcome.  But it's more than that.  I belong to an international oriented organization here in the US.  We welcome all comers.  But a German born member remarked to me that our club would be impossible in Germany.  There would be two clubs--one for people of a certain social status and another for a lesser social status.

    And BTW, if you come from a high social status, you WILL pass the test that can allow a university education.😉

  7. On 12/15/2023 at 12:02 PM, Grunt said:

    Your point doesn't "stand" though, and the majority of the discussion/thinking has been that your point was way off and you were wrong.  You say you support them unreservedly, but you suggest there were better options.  This is what I was referring to in my previous posts.

    This is Christ's restored Church.  I trust he knows what he's doing.

    Have you ever spent any significant amount of time in Utah Valley?  The LDS based culture is strong-for good and bad.

    I never suggested better options.  I merely asked if any other people were ready.

  8. On 12/15/2023 at 1:53 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

    Holy understatement, Batman!

    Ethnic German family that had been in Czechoslovakia for some time, kicked out after WW2, then had to flee eastern Germany because his dad opposed Stalin— (oh—wait—maybe THAT’s why the proggies have soured on Uchtdorf!) . . . 

    Given that West Germany’s second chancellor was the son of a shopkeeper and its third chancellor was the son of a factory clerk (not to mention the failed artist son of an illegitimate customs clerk who had been running the show in Germany a few years before), I’m going to assert with some level of confidence that mid-20th century German society wasn’t quite as rigid as you seem to suggest here.  It seems that we have no grounds for asserting that Uchtdorf’s “privilege” amounted to anything more than being middle class and ethnically German in a country that even today is 88% ethnically German.

    We will have to disagree on this.  I know many Germans.  I have been in their homes and interacted on many social occasions.  These (my friends) are not LDS people.

    German society is stratified.  I don't have time to examine the examples you posit above, but you can trust me in this.  It's not obvious to an outsider.  And wasn't to me for many years.

  9. 1 hour ago, Ironhold said:

    He also learned to fly in the West German Air Force, something that also keeps being forgotten. 

    In any nation that has both a functioning air force and at least one functional civilian airline, as those military pilots come to the end of their time in service they'll generally head on off to the civilian airline to continue their employment as pilots. 

    I don't see any listings as to what aircraft he flew, but given the time in which he served there is a *very* real chance that he was trained to operate the F-104 family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter

    For those of you who don't know, it was once joked that the cheapest way to acquire an F-104 was to purchase a plot of land and wait. This is because the flight characteristics of the F-104 were such that there was an alarmingly high incidence rate of aviation accidents, particularly among... the West German Air Force. 

    From Wiki:

    The introduction of a highly technical aircraft type to a newly reformed air force was fraught with problems. Many pilots and ground crew had settled into civilian jobs after World War II and had not kept pace with developments, with pilots being sent on short "refresher" courses in slow and benign-handling first-generation jet aircraft. Ground crew were similarly employed with minimal training and experience, which was one consequence of a conscripted military with high turnover of service personnel. Operating in the poor weather conditions of northwest Europe (unlike the fair weather training conditions at Luke AFB in Arizona) and flying low at high speed over hilly terrain, many accidents were attributed to controlled flight into terrain (CFIT). A total of 116 pilots were lost in West German F-104 accidents, including 1 ground-crew passenger and 8 USAF instructors.

    Take this into consideration when you think about his time as a pilot.

    And yes, there's another pipeline in place wherein pilots go to business school and become executives in whatever airline they fly for once they start reaching the age in which they'd otherwise be squeezed out of the cockpit. So it's not a surprise that he'd have gone on to become a VP. [

    As someone who has traveled to Germany extensively, I can say that for sure Elder Uchtdorf did not come from some underprivileged background.  Granted his family may have experienced some problems following WW2.  But Germany is a very stratified society, and he could not have flown as an officer in the German military or held his job at Lufthansa, without some level of status in society.  What we here may call privilege.

  10. As an upper middle class White guy myself, I'm very gratified in the discussion my comment has generated.  It caused some people to think.

    I'm a slight Horatio Alger story myself, as I paid my own way through college and came from a monetarily very humble background.  But the US is still the greatest land of opportunity ever, and I took advantage.

    But I think my point still stands.  A son of mine recently moved with his family, to Utah Valley from California, and the cultural contrasts are subtle but distinct.  And this culture is very noticeable in Church leadership (who, BTW I support unreservedly).

    An old example, but I remember a program called Block Teaching.  It was renamed Ward Teaching or Home Teaching sometime in the 1950s.  Why the rename?  The Church was so Utah centric that Home teaching was assigned in literal neighborhood Blocks so the teacher could walk to his assignment.  It took a while, but someone at HQ realized that this terminology didn't translate well in the hinterlands where it was impossible to walk to do the monthly teaching.  Totally unconscious by leadership, they were just naming the program due to their experiences.  Similar things happen today.

    At some level, we are all products of our cultural experiences and upbringing.

  11. 10 hours ago, askandanswer said:

    There are 12 men in the Quorum of the Twelve. One is of German/Austrian background, another has a Chinese background and the newest has a British background. That's one quarter of them

    Elder Uchtdorf was an airline pilot, Gong grew up on the SF Peninsula, a bastion of white upper middle class values, and its obvious that Kearon grew up upper middle class from a first world country.  All these people never really lived or even saw a third world lifestyle.

     

    I'm not advocating for affirmative action at all.  If people are not ready for the responsibility of the Apostleship so be it.  But if we want to be truly a World Wide Church, maybe a training program would be in order to get people ready.

  12. "As a senior leader of the Church, Elder Kearon will serve under the direction of the First Presidency and lead a growing, global Latter-day Saint membership of more than 17 million people who speak more than 180 languages."

     

    I'm sure Elder Kearon is a good man.  But reflecting on the above sentence in the Church News, I think a nod to the vast membership of the church in other countries, for a leadership post such as this, would have been a better choice.  Elder Kearon is just another upper middle class White guy, that only can ever partially understand the problems of the majority of Saints who live outside the US.

     

    Is there no one else ready????.

  13. On 11/15/2023 at 2:40 PM, mikbone said:

    I’m not trying to leap to any conclusion.  I’m leaving my options open.  

    McConkie put forth the idea that they would come from SLC Headquarters.

    I’m gonna be on the lookout for any prophets causing a ruckus in 🇮🇱.  

    From what I gather, they won’t be in 3 piece suits and ties.  And my imagination pictures a couple guys in the prime of their life.  I could be wrong as always though.

    Not going to delay the day of my repentance until 2 of our GAs get stuck in Jerusalem.

    Let's see what the scripture actually says.

    3 And I will give apower unto my two bwitnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to aturn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all bplagues, as often as they will.

    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall aovercome them, and bkill them.

    I personally believe that they will be LDS missionaries.  Not necessarily GAs.  With the advent of the internet, certainly with the power against their enemies, that will not be able to control their preaching, they will be hated, and be what we call today "influencers".

    Remember, the whole world will be watching, and later in the chapter (after the resurrection of the "prophets") the Lord basically declares all governments null and void and that He is taking over.

    It will certainly dominate the news!!!

     

  14. Jacob 6

    10 And according to the power of ajustice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that blake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is cendless dtorment.

     

    Forget degrees of Glory.  Does any thinking LDS believe for a moment that anything less than attaining the Celestial Kingdom, for all practical purposes, ends up anything unlike what is described in the Scriptures.  Temperature has degrees..............:-)

     

    Endless torment.

  15. On 9/16/2023 at 3:08 PM, Jamie123 said:

    Oh well - I like to think the best of people.

    Except of course BMW drivers.

    Had one today - came up right behind my tail, beeped his horn, overtook me, undertook the car in the right lane front of me (which is illegal in the uk). At the next traffic lights we were neck and neck again. (I was now in the lane to turn right.) It really got him to his destination a lot faster, didn't it?

    Actually, now I think of it, it may have been an Alfa Romeo, but they're almost as bad.

    I resemble that remark!!!!

     

    On another note, I was recently in the UK and noticed many more tattoos than we seem to have here in the US.  I'm in California and we have plenty, but the UK (London) seemed to have more.

  16. On 11/29/2022 at 12:59 PM, Backroads said:

    Don't disagree, but then to pull in the original question of inspiration, what does one do after they pay a full tithe and can't make that month's mortgage? Is that simply a case where you negotiate with your creditor, or is it appropriate to turn to the church? 

    I guess that if your tithing equates with a mortgage payment, you make plenty of $$$$.  What else is going on in your situation??