mrmarklin

Only leftists.
We? Once again. Only leftists.
Because the mainstream media is leftist.

Frankly, the Gospel isn't determined by any man's opinion.  

I can see I was raised differently than most on this forum.  But then I am an old guy and it would seem I grew up in a different era and culture.  My first job started when I was 8 selling stationary, greetings and occasion cards and planning calendars door to door.  I would say that 80% of what I grew up doing and thinking proper would be considered child abuse by most today.  When I served in the army a young comrade died during a training exercise – it was because the training was intense.  
When I was released from active duty – I served a mission which is about the easiest, most carefree and funniest 2 years of my life.  I also used up all my savings on my mission.  The attitude of my parents growing up was that I could do whatever I wanted but I would have to finance it.  I could stay out as late as I wanted but for most of my life I got up at 3:00 am to go to work.  Having worked to provide for my activities, clothes and personal needs since age 8 – working through college was not a change in life. 
At college I had a couple of businesses.  Though I was busy with school and work I found time to go skiing every week.  In the summer I took some time off for scuba trips to Mexico.  But I was not an exception – my brothers also provided for themselves and were better at it than me.  I was sort-of the black sheep of the family because I skied and took scuba trips.  Though I thought my family was poor based on our home, car and living accommodations I was taught not just to not being lazy but to love and enjoy work.  As it turns out my father was wealthy – he just did not believe in living lazy.  What I thought was normal, I have come to discover is worse than unique – it is strange, disrespected and shamed by most in today’s society.  Rather than honor others for their work ethic we honor them for the “things” they accumulate and flaunt.
There are two great secrets to wealth.  Please note that I do not believe being rich and wealthy are the same things – though many think so.  The prodigal son was rich – being rich is wasteful and extravagant.   
First secret to wealth – Love hard work.  It is not enough to do hard work – you must learn to love and enjoy it.  Hard work must be more fun and exciting than play.  If it is not you may someday enjoy some riches but you will never be wealthy and happy without being excited to work hard.
Second secret to wealth – Spend less than you earn.  It does not matter how much you earn – just do not ever spend all of it.  If you feel you must have more to spend; then just work more.
 
The Traveler

Thank you Tookie for answering JAGs long self righteous post. I’m glad you use common sense. 

Do people here believe that it's okay for agitators to misrepresent history and facts in order to grind away at their personal axe? I am a current Mormon and I believe it's wrong to lie by implication.

I am glad that you brought that up.  I am very aware of the limitations and time constraints of fertility.  My husband and I married in our very late 20's.  He was entering graduate school and I was working.  Having "finally" found the opportunity for marriage in our almost 30's, starting "early" was not an option.  And being older, we already had financial responsibilities that weren't going to take a pause so that I could quit work, raise babies, and magically come up with money for his schooling. 
He had student loans & tuition to pay and I had already bought a house (which turned out a blessing since it was cheaper than rent).  Those things and our remaining needs had to be financed in some way, so I worked.  My job required a significant amount of travel, so in order to make children a reality, I started looking for a job that would allow me more flexibility.  That took over a year and I then would have to take a significant pay cut.  We tried to make our budget work with that pay but adding the cost of childcare and the numbers just weren't going to fit so I kept my existing job.  Currently, my husband only had a little over a year left in school so we decided to give kids a go and that we could make it work.  My works generous maternity leave program will give us a good buffer if it works out that way and my parents have moved to our town so they could help with childcare if needed.  Is it ideal?  absolutely not.  But it will be good enough and my husband will soon be able to enter the workforce again to ease our burden.
The only reason I tell you all of this (and you can pick it apart all you want) is because maybe I did want a particular number of kids, but sometimes circumstances and timing just simply don't allow for it.  We make our choices based on limited information about our future and a little trust in personal revelation.  I'm well into my early 30's and my circumstances probably won't allow me to have what I initially wanted.  And that's ok.  I will count us blessed even if we can't even have one child.  Could I have made other choices?  Of course.  I could have quit my job and had my husband take out massive student loans to pay for our needs.  And I could have then probably gotten medicaid to pay for the hospital bills and foodstamps to ease the grocery burden.  Would that have been a good decision?  I say no.  No one else has the responsibility to pay for what I want.  "Want" is simply not a good enough reason.
But, I don't think people who choose gov't aid to have kids are necessarily bad people who are disobeying counsel.  I think they have their heart in the right place, I just don't agree with their ideas behind making it happen or their interpretation of the two counsels (self reliance and having kids).
Hopefully, you don't think I'm morally preening for pointing out that the two counsels don't have to contradict.  It has been my experience that the moral preening has come first from those who have children via help from medicaid and other welfare programs.  In my ward, when the topic of children or family finances coming up someone starts going on about how great they are for their struggle.    I hate it when people act like exclusive martyrs.
My ward is in a college town, so we have tons of masters and phd student families.  A few weeks back, a guy flat out said "Couples who are delaying children due to the financial strains of education are following satans plan to destroy the family."  Then, another guy chimed in "Yeah, you just pop 'em out and Heavenly Father will make the rest of it work out for you."  
Oh dear no.  I had to say a little prayer for strength not to lash out.  So, that's where I'm coming from.
 I think the moral of the story for the OP @Doorman is that they have made well meaning choices that have led them to require help.  Take the help and do everything to get off it asap.  Don't make further choices that make you to keep needing it.  You feel bad about it for a reason and that's a productive feeling to have.  Take the feeling and harness it to help guide yourself to self-sufficiency.  Keep on keeping on and you'll be fine!
And not that he's going to, but don't be like the couples in my ward and act like your struggle makes you more righteous than those who made choices the avoid needing help.  Neither way is going to get you a better spot in the Celestial Kingdom if your heart is in the right place regarding parenthood and self-reliance. 
 
 

We had four children after waiting 3+ years after we were married.  I had graduated from college and had a career going.  I was not making very much, and certainly did not enjoy the lifestyle I do now.  I was 31 when our last child was born.  We did not have more than four children due to medical advice from doctors that it would not be wise for my wife's health to have any more children. 
I don't know about any spirits that we "chose" not to bring into mortality.  I find this comment nonsensical and insulting.
The road is never easy raising a family, and we struggled with all the usual problems of not enough money etc etc.  But I chose a good profession and as my career matured, so did our lifestyle increase.  I'm able to do for my grandchildren what I did not do for my own children, at least in a monetary way.

God honors the honest desire of His children to be obedient and draw closer to Him. In the beginning that is enough. 
“Striving for perfection means doing a little better than you did the day before.”  Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
”You haven’t failed until you’ve given up.”  Elder Deiter Uchtdorf 
When I was struggling with eliminating a stronghold in my life I found Elder Holland’s talk “Lord, I Believe” to be very helpful. His other talk “Be Yea Perfect - Eventually” also insightful as well as Elder Uchtdorf’s talk “Bearers of Heavenly Light”.
When I was struggling with eliminating a stronghold in my life I found the following things to be helpful. 
1) Pray, pray, pray.  Get someone who can agree with you in prayer (preferably a more mature Christian) and who can give you a blessing when needed. 
2) “If your trying to eliminate a vice it is helpful to replace it with a virtue.”  CS Lewis.      I can’t have silence (it’s where I find myself rehashing old arguments and hurts) so I replaced it with music, scripture on CD, and church talks. 
3). Remembering our Father wants us to succeed and that He isn’t  so much concerned with our failures as He is with whether or not we get back up again.   He will help us.  
 

During the song Satisfy, by Worshipmob, the singer breaks into prophetic wording, with the LORD declaring that he loves us in spite of our addictions. We all struggle against those, yet Heavenly Father loves us--loves me! It dawns on me that I struggle way too hard against my addiction--my sin. I strike a defensive posture, and gradually wear out. Then, the temptation comes at me and I am overrun. What if, instead of striving and fighting, I turned towards Jesus? Then, I could quit my battle and surrender. My Savior would then take my hand, and walk with me through my sin-lust, around my temptation, and He would deliver me from my sin. Yes, it's time to turn from my wicked ways, towards Christ--and surrender.

We had four children after waiting 3+ years after we were married.  I had graduated from college and had a career going.  I was not making very much, and certainly did not enjoy the lifestyle I do now.  I was 31 when our last child was born.  We did not have more than four children due to medical advice from doctors that it would not be wise for my wife's health to have any more children. 
I don't know about any spirits that we "chose" not to bring into mortality.  I find this comment nonsensical and insulting.
The road is never easy raising a family, and we struggled with all the usual problems of not enough money etc etc.  But I chose a good profession and as my career matured, so did our lifestyle increase.  I'm able to do for my grandchildren what I did not do for my own children, at least in a monetary way.

My kids go to private school, and I pay taxes so that I can drive on the roads and have public services. 
Is it Gods plan to to have kids for which we cannot provide? for whom we must rely on a government agency for support?

A lot of my fear comes from statements like this from Ezra Taft Benson
”The chief weapon used by the federal government to achieve this “equality” is the system of transfer payments. This means that the federal governments collects from one income group and transfer payments to another by the tax system. These payments are made in the form of social security benefits, Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps, to name a few. Today the cost of such programs has been going in the hole at the rate of 12 billion dollars a year; and, with increased benefits and greater numbers of recipients, even though the tax base has been increased we will have larger deficits in the future.
...
Are we part of the problem or part of the solution?
Recently a letter came to my office, accompanied by an article from your Daily Universe, on the matter of BYU students taking food stamps. The query of the letter was: “What is the attitude of the Church on taking food stamps?” The Church’s view on this is well known. We stand for independence, thrift, and abolition of the dole. This was emphasized in the Saturday morning welfare meeting of general conference. “The aim of the Church is to help the people to help themselves. Work is to be re-enthroned as the ruling principle of the lives of our Church membership” (Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, October 1936, p. 3).
When you accept food stamps, you accept an unearned handout that other working people are paying for. You do not earn food stamps or welfare payments. Every individual who accepts an unearned government gratuity is just as morally culpable as the individual who takes a handout from taxpayers’ money to pay his heat, electricity, or rent. There is no difference in principle between them. You did not come to this University to become a welfare recipient. You came here to be a light to the world, a light to society—to save society and to help to save this nation, the Lord’s base of operations in these latter days, to ameliorate man’s social conditions. You are not here to be a parasite or freeloader. The price you pay for “something for nothing” may be more than you can afford. Do not rationalize your acceptance of government gratuities by saying, “I am a contributing taxpayer too.” By doing this you contribute to the problem which is leading this nation to financial insolvency.
Society may rationalize immorality, but God cannot condone it. Society sponsors Sabbathbreaking, but the Church counsels otherwise. Society profanes the name of Deity, but Latter-day Saints cannot countenance it. Because society condones a dole, which demoralizes man and weakens his God-given initiative and character, can we?”
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson_vision-hope-youth-zion/
Thoughts? Anyone care to further interpret the words of a Prophet of God?

I realize that with this audience I am on the losing side, like you said kicking against the pricks. I only wish to point out that the OP made his bed, he made decisions that led to this crisis in his life and now he is posting looking to assuage his guilt for going on the government dole.
I agree we should not put off having kids, we should not put of marriage. We don't need to wait until we make X dollars/year. When we hear the counsel of the prophets I am sure that they do not anticipate the young men and women of the church getting married unprepared for life and having to rely on the government for support.
But will anyone say that as a priesthood holder that you do not have an obligation to provide for your family?

Is it also Gods plan to be dependant on the Government for our needs? @Fether
Because the one of the same guys you quote also said this (previously posted)
When you accept food stamps, you accept an unearned handout that other working people are paying for. You do not earn food stamps or welfare payments. Every individual who accepts an unearned government gratuity is just as morally culpable as the individual who takes a handout from taxpayers’ money to pay his heat, electricity, or rent. There is no difference in principle between them. You did not come to this University to become a welfare recipient. You came here to be a light to the world, a light to society—to save society and to help to save this nation, the Lord’s base of operations in these latter days, to ameliorate man’s social conditions. You are not here to be a parasite or freeloader. The price you pay for “something for nothing” may be more than you can afford. Do not rationalize your acceptance of government gratuities by saying, “I am a contributing taxpayer too.” By doing this you contribute to the problem which is leading this nation to financial insolvency.
Society may rationalize immorality, but God cannot condone it. Society sponsors Sabbathbreaking, but the Church counsels otherwise. Society profanes the name of Deity, but Latter-day Saints cannot countenance it. Because society condones a dole, which demoralizes man and weakens his God-given initiative and character, can we?”
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson_vision-hope-youth-zion/

Lets back into the OP's problem. Full time college student that's great, but then the OP states "I'm married" and "I have a kid on the way" Whoa stop. This is how we get into these tight spots.  We put the carriage before the horse. 
Look OP the ship has sailed, and you need the Government to step in and help out. It is what it is and you have an obligation to your wife and baby to make sure that they have what they need.  
I would question is this God's plan for our youth? Get married and have a kid without viable means to support them? 

This is very common.  The bishopric does this a lot in many Wards in other ways, such as having meetings with members etc during the same hours.

This is very common.  The bishopric does this a lot in many Wards in other ways, such as having meetings with members etc during the same hours.

I'm pretty sure every ward has a myriad of members that linger in the hall for the duration of Sunday School and Priesthood/Reliefy Society. It's not really my place to say anything, of course. So I don't. I'm not sure it's anybody's place, really. But it seems like such a waste to me. I mean, there are so FEW opportunities to be taught and instructed by the Spirit. I find it difficult to find personal time to just study the Gospel by myself. But I enjoy studying the Gospel, when I'm not involved with work, family, kids, dishes, etc. Why would you take a few casual conversations or aimlessly roam the internet over receiving eternal truths? I don't get it. Thoughts?

Your statement about the limitations of SALT is very true. Luckily they are still allowing interest for second homes. 
I was at a tax seminar yesterday (I’m a CPA)and for most people making $175K or less there is a tax cut in your future!

I also think LDS get married to young, actually I think many religious people get married to young.  I think people change as they grow older, or maybe they just become more comfortable with themselves and more able to be themselves.  Also younger people are more subject to peer pressure and fitting in (even in their 20's).  

Ear piercing is very cultural. My wife is from Latin America and piercing is done to female children at around six months of age. The girls grow up with earrings in their ears. My daughter was pierced at an early age, and my granddaughter, whose mother is Mexican, also has pierced ears. She’s now eight.
OTOH, my mother never had her ears pierced in her lifetime.  A different culture.
Hinckley’s comment about the Church having no position on piercing, certainly reflects the growing number of Latins joining the church at that time. 
 
BTW, the rule on engagement ring cost is two months salary. A good argument for marrying young, when one’s salary is low!

One of the podcasts I listen to has a host who occasionally talks about his dating experience, and he saved sex for marriage.  He treated every first date as an interview.   He was dating with the single objective of finding a spouse.  He'd discuss beliefs, politics, family, future goals, and pretty much everything else that was important for him to find in a spouse.  It worked for him.

It’s a sweet gun.

Ear piercing is very cultural. My wife is from Latin America and piercing is done to female children at around six months of age. The girls grow up with earrings in their ears. My daughter was pierced at an early age, and my granddaughter, whose mother is Mexican, also has pierced ears. She’s now eight.
OTOH, my mother never had her ears pierced in her lifetime.  A different culture.
Hinckley’s comment about the Church having no position on piercing, certainly reflects the growing number of Latins joining the church at that time. 
 
BTW, the rule on engagement ring cost is two months salary. A good argument for marrying young, when one’s salary is low!

Ear piercing is very cultural. My wife is from Latin America and piercing is done to female children at around six months of age. The girls grow up with earrings in their ears. My daughter was pierced at an early age, and my granddaughter, whose mother is Mexican, also has pierced ears. She’s now eight.
OTOH, my mother never had her ears pierced in her lifetime.  A different culture.
Hinckley’s comment about the Church having no position on piercing, certainly reflects the growing number of Latins joining the church at that time. 
 
BTW, the rule on engagement ring cost is two months salary. A good argument for marrying young, when one’s salary is low!