GaySaint

Hi everyone: Just wanted you all to know that I'm not dead, will still answer emails etc., but recently got a new job that has required all my time (and brain power), and I still haven't quite figured out my routine. But I wanted to let everyone know I haven't forgotten about you =)

Bytor: It has been my experience that those who act out sexually because of abuse can also have those burdens lifted by counseling. In other words, once the abuse is sorted out and resolved in the person’s life, the behavior changes. I most certainly wouldn’t consider this person to be homosexual. Instead, I would say he used homosexual behavior as a way to cope with his past trauma. Why this particular behavior? He’d be better off to answer that question than I would be. You mention that he was “only attracted to women.” That right there tells me he is heterosexual (or on the heterosexual side of MOE’s scale). I think the problem with the friend in the OP is that he finds himself attracted to those of the same gender, regardless of his sexual experience (which I would assume would be none, but perhaps Lizzy could clarify if past/current abuse is something he is dealing with).

Hi Lizzy, I wanted to add my two cents: I knew I was gay when I was 12, although at 15 I doubt I would have had the courage to admit it to anybody, so the fact that he told you is really a great thing. It shows that he trusts you. I would agree with Soul that we are often conditioned to want to get married and have children, and that figuring out how to have a family/spouse/children etc. can be very confusing at this age for someone who feels attractions to their same gender. My advice to you would be not to put him in any one “box” – if you will. Be there for him regardless of his choices, and always encourage him to form a relationship with the Lord through prayer, also regardless of his choices. I often see gay people turn away from God because His followers tend to push them away. Even the quotes that you shared sure talked a lot about discipline, which we all know is not the best motivator. It isn’t fair to set his expectations as “marriage to a woman and children” as the only ideal, especially because I don’t know many gay men who are able to make this work out very well. He should also start being prepared for the possibility of celibacy, and perhaps even given information regarding the possibility of a homosexual relationship (when he is older, haha) so that he is able to make an informed decision. There really are three choices: Marriage to a woman, celibacy, and a relationship with another man. Hiding one of these options is not a good idea. Discussing the pros and cons of all of the above seems the best course of action. It would be fair to say that only option 1 or 2 would allow someone to remain a faithful member of the church (but since he isn’t a member of the church leaving out option 3 would seem like you are trying to force him into the “church” box. Does that make sense?). But options 1 and 2 have consequences of their own, and if these aren’t discussed fully and openly, when the consequences occur bad things can happen if the gay person isn’t prepared :). As someone who’s been there, feel free to PM me or have him do so if you think I can help, or if you have any questions (or ask them here too). But most of all, thank you for being concerned for him, and for being there for him. This really will mean more to him than you know.

As to some of the questions, as someone who has been through this, unless the CHI has changed in this regard, you are not allowed to wear garments or pay tithes after being excommunicated (although I do find it odd that a non-member can pay tithing if they wish, but excommunicated members can not). I specifically asked the tithing question because I wanted to continue paying them, but was instructed that I would not be allowed. I also believe that one would still have access to the Holy Ghost if such access is sought. The gift may be taken away, but I find that the spirit is always there when I ask it to be. There is no "formal" process for removing any of the gifts or blessings of the gospel (in other words, you don't have hands laid on your head to strip you of blessings, etc). I've always viewed excommunication as the Lord's way of saying, "Let's start over when you are ready." I believe very strongly that it has been a blessing in my life.

The FRC has been involved in a lot of interesting political campaigns lately dealing with the Uganda "kill the gays" bill. Specifically, the FRC paid $25,000 to lobby Congress against approving a resolution denouncing Uganda’s plan to execute homosexuals (I have a link to to the copies of the official lobbying report if anyone would like it posted, but it leads to a "gay friendly" blogger's website, so I don't want to post it without permission... Maybe I'll PM it to people who would like to see the report, or try to find another source) Doing a google search for Tony Perkins, the head of FRC, or worse, Peter Sprigg (who either wants gays sent out of the country or their lives criminalized, depending on the interview) will turn up the reasons I would personally consider FRC worthy of the "Hate group" label - and I think you all know I don't use those types of terms lightly... ever. I would be inclined to say, however, that anyone who supports the Uganda bill in its current iteration, which calls for the death of homosexuals, indeed deserves the label of "hate."

Ok, EVERGREEN garland would be accetable around a doorway or down a banister, but why would someone put evergreen garland on an evergreen Christmas tree. Filling in the visible gaps? OP: Take pictures. Let's clarify :) Although if your wife is saying no she's probably right, haha.

Trust the gay boy: NO TINSEL! 1970 was a long long time ago =)

Abigail: I spent years wishing and hoping and praying and fighting with the Lord over my unwanted feelings. I would encourage you to do the same, only because then you and your Heavenly Father will have some great talk time, and you will learn how to talk to Him and how to listen to Him. Don't get discouraged if he doesn't take these feelings away. The fact is that most of the time He doesn't (although there are the rare occasions!). But that doesn't need to make you lose hope. There is a great self-power and self-learned-lesson in accepting your feelings, loving that part of yourself just as much as you love any other part of yourself, and then, instead of asking God to remove them from you, asking Him, "Ok, I've accepted myself as and this challenge as part of me. I am still your daughter. Now what?" I admit that I know a lot more bisexual women than I do bisexual men. Personally, I think this has to do with how the Lord has given women the ability to be more compassionate, more loving, and more understanding (more emotional, haha) than most men (except us fabulous gay boys, that is, hehe). He didn't make a mistake, and I have no doubt that your feelings and attractions will play a larger role throughout eternity. We don't really understand everything about same-sex attraction yet, but that doesn't mean that God can't reveal to you His purpose FOR YOU in this life. If I could go back and tell my 15 year old self one thing, it would be not to cry myself to sleep every night over this. I would tell myself that I was ok, and that it's ok to love myself and be proud of the fact that I am different. I leave that same encouragement for you. If these feelings don't go away, trust yourself and your Heavenly Father enough to know that you will learn how to deal with them. And that's ok. If anything, the closeness this issue will cause you to get with your Heavenly Father makes you even MORE worthy, MORE beautiful, MORE humble, MORE understanding, and MORE compassionate - just like everyone's personal struggles do for them in their own way.

First of all Abigail, calm down, my dear. You should know first and foremost that God loves you, your parents love you, and there are many many members of the church who love you. The Lord is there to help you understand what he has prepared for you, and is willing to weep with you and be there for you when you are at your lowest lows. This is not your fault, and there are communities in the church who will be supportive of you. It might take you a long time to figure out what you want to do, and that's ok! The church just released the new edition of the handbook of instructions, and it emphasizes that what you are feeling is not sinful. You have done nothing wrong. Focus on your relationship with the Lord. He will help you. You may have some unique challenges to face (and let's admit it, some stupid people both inside and outside of the church), but you can do this. With the Lord's help you can be happy. There are tons of people on these forums, including myself, who are here for you. You are not alone.

Bytor, at first read I envisioned a male TSA agent, and I was a little shocked you would say that! hahaha. Anyway, TSA was right. The last time I was at the airport I accidently got into the full body scanner line. No biggy, but when I got through the line I asked the TSA agent if I could have a copy of my picture for my facebook account. He wasn't amused.

I meant christians as the christians define themselves: as members of the Christian Coalition (of which the Catholic church is not a part). By this definition, many religious organizations that claim christian ideals are not "Christians," including the LDS church. So for the purpose of my last post, that was the definition by which I was going, since that is the definition those in the Christian Coalition impose upon themselves. Maybe I should have used a different example That was my point. I don't think the study was trying to claim that 0% of lesbian mothers anytime anywhere throughout the known universe would abuse a child, just that in this particularly study, none had.

JAG: I would hope the study isn't used to "prove" that gay parents are better than straight parents, etc, but I can see why it would be used to suggest that gay parents aren't WORSE than straight parents, LESS virtuous, etc. I think the problems with such claims are also equally obvious. But it is silly to compare pearls to swine (I hate seeing the "perfect gay couple" compared to the "abusive straight couple" or the "sinful gay couple" compared to the "righteous mormon couple"). Let's compare good gay couples to good straight couples, and admit that the children in both are likely to experience a loving, accepting, home with parents who teach them values and morals (although it would be fair to admit that some of those values and morals may differ slightly, just as they would with a child raised in a good catholic home verses a good christian home).

LM: I'm just curious as to your worldview. Are you saying that it would be your guess that gay men would abuse their children more than the general population? I'm not trying to argue or change your worldview, I'm just wondering what in your worldview would make you think that. It might apply and it might not, but the rate of domestic violence in general in same-gender relationships (regardless of whether they are lesbian or gay) is about 25%, roughly the same as the rate of domestic violence against heterosexual women in opposite-gendered couples. (Domestic Violence in Gay Relationships).

PC: I'm sure it's possible to emulate the preparation, and the desire for a family, and the stability =) I don't think the RELATIONSHIP has anything to do with it, honestly. The relationship happened to RESULT in the preparation, desire, and stability, but the preparation, desire, and stability is not DEPENDENT on the relationship. I also have to admit that I find the part about the female children of these couples being more likely to experiment with members of the same-sex and identifying as having a more fluid sexuality interesting (and you all thought I would leave that part conveniently out of the discussion, lol). Since I don't have much experience with female sexuality I can't really comment on why I think this is...

I'm not quite sure what you are alluding to here. I think PC's last comment makes a lot of sense, and would expect the same to be true of gay males as well (in that, as they have to prepare a lot more for a child, the instances of abuse would be lower than the general male population until that preparation is no longer required. Then it would probably equal out to the same level of abuse amoung men in general). Do you not agree?