carlimac

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  1. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in Letter from the Office of the First Presidency   
    Of course Church office isn't a direct indicator of spiritual state.  However, church office is a direct indicator of whether one is authorized to disseminate the revelations one claims to have had.  And, more to the point of this discussion--spiritual state is a direct indicator of whether or not a purported "revelation" is likely to be a true one.
     
    The Brigham Young quote you cite is geared towards Church members who won't bother to seek their own revelation.  I know that OW dearly, desperately wants to believe that assertion to be true of the entire orthodox wing of the Church--but frankly, they're basing that smear on nothing more than the fact that the orthodox Church (including its divinely appointed leadership) disagrees with them.  Whatever happened to "reasonable people can disagree"?
     
     
    There's a difference between saying we can know what the 1st Pres/Q12 know, versus saying we can know more than them (and are authorized to teach that additional purported knowledge).
  2. Like
    carlimac reacted to FunkyTown in Letter from the Office of the First Presidency   
    Well, it's entirely possible that the leadership prayed about it and got no answer.
     
    This would require the leadership to either get in to an argument with members who said "Well, if he didn't say 'No', then you can change it". You'll note that they didn't say that they received inspiration saying that women couldn't be ordained. Only that they 'don't' get ordained.
     
    If they got no answer, simply saying, "We've had no inspiration to change it." would have made things worse. If that were the case, they stuck with the conservative decision.
     
    It might be a non-answer, but there might be a reason for the non-answer.
  3. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in Letter from the Office of the First Presidency   
    Canonized scripture, Conference sermon specifically tailored to the individuals raising the issue, united statement of the 1st Pres/Q12--In the words of an esteemed (former) secretary of state, "what difference, at this point, does it make?"
     
     
    Suzie, I daresay you are familiar with enough Church history to know that conformance with some sort of legal code doesn't immunize one from excommunication.  Nor, IMHO, should it.  If the Holy Ghost tells a bishop or stake president that a Church member's heart is not right before the Lord, I don't think that bishop/stake president's hands should be tied in perpetuity while the member keeps the council bogged down in legal procedures.  There should be fair play and adequate notice; sure.  But this business of Kate Kelly acting like she has absolutely no idea why she was excommunicated is just silly.  Babylon may buy it, and the sympathetic LDS intelligentsia may split hairs over it; but to most rank-and-file Mormons it's pretty clear cut:  she demanded something that the Church leadership said the Lord was unwilling to give, and she wouldn't take "no" for an answer and tried to shame the leadership into giving her what she wanted anyways.
     
     
    FWIW--McKay did inquire of the Lord re the blacks and priesthood issue, and did get an answer (a negative one).  But he did not formally announce that answer.  Had he done so, the Church membership could have gotten even more entrenched in the status quo.  Rather, he continued working quietly to prepare the Church for the "long promised day".
     
    Let me ask you this, Suzie--if Monson did get an answer, and it was a "no"--are you sure you want that answer presented to a solemn assembly and canonized as Official Declaration 3?
     
    IMHO, those who want to keep female ordination on the table as a long-term option should be grateful for the ambiguity.
     
     
    The Church hasn't stopped the dialogue here; they've merely stated that the apostles will contribute to it on their own (the Lord's?) terms.  Those terms apparently do not involve giving Kate Kelly a photo-op or otherwise implicitly suggesting that someone can shout their way into the council room of the First Presidency.
     
     
    They shouldn't have to, MoE.  The Church records are completely devoid of any record of a female ever being ordained to one of the four offices of the Aaronic Priesthood or five offices of the Melchizedek Priesthood, and OW knows it.  It is they who are deliberately creating murky waters with the ambiguous use of the word "ordain" and the red herring statements about priestesshood made to the Nauvoo Relief Society.  The LDS leadership shouldn't have to address that blatant lie, and frankly I think I prefer it in general when apostles don't get into the business of apologetics or historical analysis.
  4. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from ztodd in Fighting gay marriage mocks God   
    Sorry but she sounds kind of messed up. I can't judge because I've never been in her circumstances, nor do I know the whole story, but sounds to me like she's compromising and blaming the church for being...the church. For teaching what it's supposed to teach. I could feel her anger right away. That's just sad.
    I've been in that hypercritical mind set before. I really struggled with the church at times as young mother with lots of children. Sometimes General Conference would almost put me over the edge. But in retrospect, it did me no good, nor did it ultimately make me feel any better to whine and complain about having to do hard things, or about bucking up against the strictness of the gospel. If I had followed my notions to go inactive, to experiment and "taste-test" things that weren't approved by the church, I know it would have only led to a more profound unhappiness. ONLY when I have conformed my life to the will of my Father in Heaven, has His blessings of peace and a sense of well being come to me. We all make mistakes and bad choices at times, but to remain unrepentant and prideful will never equal happiness. She says she's happier now that she's not attending church as much. My guess is that it isn't true happiness, or a genuine happiness that will last. She's cheating herself and she knows it. Why else would she feel the need to blog about it- to somehow justify it because she is picked on by the church cause her husband is gay. Being humble, submissive and allowing the atonement of Jesus Christ to work for us is the only path to true peace and happiness. Doesn't sound like she's on that path.
    As I read the part of the book I'm reading about the gay young adult who took his life, I was touched and saddened. He was painted as a kid who was practically perfect in every way. My guess is that it wasn't only being gay that made him take his life. He was a perfectionist and it sounds like he just couldn't love himself unless he was perfect. It sounded like he was just depressed. He was typical candidate for suicide. Scares me cause I have a son who isn't gay but who is very intense and a perfectionist. It's not the church that makes people that way. It's their personalities-their dispositions. I have children with equally strong testimonies but who are a little more forgiving of themselves when they make mistakes...honest mistakes and not open defiance like this blogger shows.
    Anyway, to base my whole understanding of what it's like to be married to someone with SGA on one or two blogs, even a whole slew of blogs, still doesn't mean to me that those marriages should never happen. It takes some incredible maturity and unselfishness on the part of both persons in the marriage to make it work. And I believe it's possible. I know you want me to believe otherwise- that gays should never enter a heterosexual marriage and it's bound to fail. Sorry. I just don't buy it.
    Nor do I believe that the Church and religion drive gays to commit suicide. This is what the LGBT community wants us to believe every time a gay Mormon kills themselves. They say-"See? This is what you are doing to them. " I just don't believe that. I do believe that gay suicide in relation to religion is a misunderstanding of the atonement and not allowing it to work for them- in combination with whatever predispositions they have to depression, perfectionism, and the environment of family or friend networks or the lack there of. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not to blame.
  5. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from ztodd in Fighting gay marriage mocks God   
    It's not the actual people who are hard to tolerate, it's their parading their alternate lifestyle. I'm not one who likes the spotlight on me in real life. If I suspect someone doesn't approve of me or my lifestyle or my religion, I high tail it out of there. I guess that's why I have such a hard time with the demanding nature of the LGBT movement. The flaunting and pride stuff. In the same video interviewing the elementary school kids there was a teacher who had "come out" to his students and was was telling them how proud he was of it. That just makes me a little sick to my stomach. WHY does anyone have to know that, especially 3rd graders???
    I have nothing against sex by the way. But isn't it supposed to be a private matter?
  6. Like
    carlimac reacted to Just_A_Guy in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    What about . . . Oh, say, a wedding photographer?
    Let 'em all work, I say; and let ''em be open and honest about their prejudices. The free market will sort out 90% of the rest of it.
  7. Like
    carlimac reacted to Traveler in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    This may be an opinion?  Do you have a way to demonstrate the validity of this opinion.  Without question religion is a major factor in human evolution.  The assumption that human society would evolve values without religion is ignoring the historical facts.  I am not sure that human could even evolve intelligence without evolving religion. 
     
    Can you point to any civilization that evolved values without some contact with religion?  We may speculate over which came first but then that is speculation.   I do not believe that one can evolve without the other.  Do you have any examples that prove otherwise?  
  8. Like
    carlimac reacted to Traveler in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    PC.  As I have read some of the posts of this thread there is something blatantly missing.  We must also realize that any person that is involved in supporting gay marriage cannot be considered a unprejudiced lawyer or judge for any citizen opposed to gay marriage in a court of law.   When political correctness becomes included in the law - of necessity the law becomes prejudiced and biased. 
  9. Like
    carlimac reacted to Windseeker in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    The problem is that western society is moving from punishing an individual’s actions/behavior to punishing a person for his thoughts or beliefs.
     
    We have a history of discriminating against people just for how they looked, and you think its progress to punish someone because of what they think?
     
    This group made a covenant agreeing to keep their sexual activity within the bounds of heterosexual marriage and now they are being prevented from practicing law? A covenant to honor heterosexual marriage…sounds awful familiar. How long before Mormons are banned from employment in Canada because they too make this same covenant?
     
    When it comes to LDS it’s not par for course and the shoe is on the other foot. Our people had to flee their country because our beliefs and behavior were not tolerated. 
     
    There are no new victims here..it’s just the same old ones. My hope is that one day people in these groups with their self-righteous indignations and demand for historical reparations and “victim” rights will look in the mirror and recognize the face of evil. 
  10. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from rayhale in Any particular reason why my "quote" button still isn't working?   
    Thank you for explaining it to me on a Kindergarten level.  No sarcasm. I'm really grateful when someone explains it in terms of magic. That makes as much sense to me as all the other Pig Latin of computer language.
  11. Like
    carlimac reacted to Windseeker in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    The government is putting their secular/humanist religious beliefs in their decisions to govern and in so doing are discriminating against a graduates of a religious college.
     
    ...and it's a bad thing. 
  12. Like
    carlimac reacted to The Folk Prophet in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    Nonsense. Religion dictates values. Values dictate morality. Morality dictates governance. 
  13. Like
    carlimac reacted to The Folk Prophet in Accredited Christian law school grads barred from practice   
    Separation of church and state means, and has always meant, that there is no state church and no church state. It means that the religious organization is not the government and the government does not dictate religion. It does not mean, nor has it ever meant, that religious people are banned from participating in government.
  14. Like
    carlimac reacted to Palerider in Childhood things now extinct!   
    Sacrament meeting in the evening.....Primary held during the week. On fast Sunday you never had to go back to church in the evening.
  15. Like
    carlimac reacted to applepansy in Childhood things now extinct!   
    Roller skate Key
  16. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from Maureen in Was Joseph really sold by his brothers?   
    So, just for information's sake, I just read three other translations of this story - The New International Version, The Living Bible and The Revised Standard Version. All three say that "they" in the King James Version is the brothers who pulled Joseph out of the well, not the Midianites.  And Reuben was inexplicably away at the time that Joseph was sold.
     
    I've never delved into the Bible stories before like I have this year, teaching Primary. Wow, the things you learn as a teacher!
  17. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from pam in Was Joseph really sold by his brothers?   
    So, just for information's sake, I just read three other translations of this story - The New International Version, The Living Bible and The Revised Standard Version. All three say that "they" in the King James Version is the brothers who pulled Joseph out of the well, not the Midianites.  And Reuben was inexplicably away at the time that Joseph was sold.
     
    I've never delved into the Bible stories before like I have this year, teaching Primary. Wow, the things you learn as a teacher!
  18. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from pam in I have a sheepish admission here about the Church's Easter video...   
    I'm a mom of 7. Superperson, I'm not. My brain is fried. I'm a Mormon.
  19. Like
    carlimac reacted to The Folk Prophet in A Gay Marriage Advocate Defends Our Right to Religious Opposition   
    Possibly. Half truths are one of Satan's most powerful tools. And diplomacy is always beneficial. I see this as diplomacy. It gives a way in for those who, as he stated, refuse to even have the dialog because they are accused of racism. It opens up opportunities for some consideration of homosexuality and gay-marriage that might otherwise not be open.
     
    Yes, I agree, the tactic could be considered biblical. How many organizations and leaders through the ages have picked and chosen from certain biblical principles to sway their followers to an evil end though?
     
    Good and evil are not so black-and-white. Should we view every kind approach as good? If I am kindly swaying you to murder your brother, does it qualify as praiseworthy?
  20. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from pam in Has anyone seen this blog and if so...   
    (slapping head) Thanks for fixing the link. More senior moment than I should be having at my age. I'm not blonde either. No excuse.
     
    Good way to stall out a perfectly good discussion: 1) Spell Mormon wrong and 2) Let Lakumi and Jerome have a sword fight while you mess around trying to fix the obvious problem.
     
    I still can't copy and paste like I used to though and the quote button doesn't seem to be working either.
  21. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from jerome1232 in Has anyone seen this blog and if so...   
    I don't really care for the blog that much, but I think that the notion that MormOns are fairly normal and go about life in a routine, expected way is helpful in a missionary sense. More people than not are more likely to be interested in a religion that acts as a bonus addition to everyday life than one that weighs one down with cultish behaviors and constrictions. (Amish, Moonies, etc.)  We also have the Fundamentalist identity to contend with. Every time they make it into the news it skews the reality of who we are.
     
    So I think it's helpful to appear like regular folks. But I draw the line of blending in with the world at lightening up on standards like the Word of Wisdom, chastity, language and such. We HAVE to maintain our peculiarity in these areas or there wouldn't be much reason for the Church to exist.
     
    As far as doctrinal normalcy, we need to maintain our beliefs there, too but those beliefs aren't going to show up very much in day to day conversation and in how we interact with people. I think I would act the same way I do if I believed in a different Godhead or if I had no idea what the priesthood was.
  22. Like
    carlimac got a reaction from jerome1232 in Has anyone seen this blog and if so...   
    (slapping head) Thanks for fixing the link. More senior moment than I should be having at my age. I'm not blonde either. No excuse.
     
    Good way to stall out a perfectly good discussion: 1) Spell Mormon wrong and 2) Let Lakumi and Jerome have a sword fight while you mess around trying to fix the obvious problem.
     
    I still can't copy and paste like I used to though and the quote button doesn't seem to be working either.
  23. Like
    carlimac reacted to pam in Has anyone seen this blog and if so...   
    I corrected the link in the OP.
     
    As Maureen mentioned normons was spelled incorrectly when the OP put normans.
  24. Like
    carlimac reacted to pam in MoTab Messiah   
    I watched it and I thought it was absolutely beautiful just the way they did it.  I've sung in large choirs and have done The Messiah.  I loved this concert from the MoTab.