carlimac

"We of this Church know something of such groups. The Book of Mormon speaks of the Gadianton robbers, a vicious, oath-bound, and secret organization bent on evil and destruction. In their day they did all in their power, by whatever means available, to bring down the Church, to woo the people with sophistry, and to take control of the society. We see the same thing in the present situation." Gordon B. Hinckley, The Times in Which We Live

Either way it actually appears to be Trump vs. Harris this election. The Dems have to be holding someone ready to go on the sideline for Harris's new VP.

No one, including Litchman with his 2000 vs. 2016 interpretation flipping, knows for certain what the results of the election will be. Saying someone will be president vs. someone will win the popular vote isn't the same thing. He was correct, according to himself. He was right that Gore won the popular vote BUT then still lost the presidency. He can't have it both ways and still be a guru. He is always careful to give himself an out if he is wrong, after all he couldn't sell as many books unless he has an out. The out this year is Russian interference and voter suppression.

With really only two players in the game, we all have 50/50 odds of being right or wrong.
Time will tell.
Independent of Litchtman, one thing I'm certain of is that the mainstream media hates Trump. He has called them out for being fake news since the beginning. He has done his part to expose their heavily biased agenda. In so doing, he has crippled their credibility, hurt their viewership and ultimately put a bleeding hole in their pocketbook. Thus the hatred. If any poll suggested Trump would win, I would never expect them to freely offer up that information. Suppression is key.

Trump didn't create the far left's hatred, he only helped expose them for who they are.
 

Kanye West is also running for President.
I was going to say how in the world.... but again, you have Trump running again so anything can happen.
I watched him yesterday but I was too distracted by the nodding lady in the background,  it was constant and at some point it was just irritating. 

Perhaps the Senate is his back up plan once the Harris Administration is in place?
 

What scares me is that someone who doesn't even know he's running for President could possibly win.
Twice now he has announced he is proud to be running for the Senate.
 

I didn't vote for Trump last time (didn't vote for Hillary either) but this year I am.  While I may not like his mannerisms or his cockiness, I have been impressed in the job he has done in office.  

Ted Cruz is calling for Jack Dorsey to attend some kind of a hearing to answer as to why twitter and facebook are deleting and censoring all of the NY Time's articles regarding Biden and his son's dealings.  

I've actually noticed a lot of people leaving the left because of cancel culture.  They still remain pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-universal healthcare, etc.  But they believe in free speech so much that they feel the right is more tolerant than the left.  The right will actually have a real discussion about a difference of opinion.  The left will cancel you for one word out of line.

I get all my relevant news from TikTok these days.      And I'm astounded by the amount of #WalkAway liberals who have had enough of multigenerational betrayal by democrats, and they are ticked off enough to publicly come out as supporting Trump.   The prospect of a guy who has been making the same promises to fix things for 4+ decades, and a Veep pick of the only person out there who has put more black people behind bars than he has, is just too much for them.

It stands to reason.  Very few 2016 Trump voters will change sides.  And some never-Trumpers (like me) shifted and decided Trump is actually doing a good job.  He's proved us wrong on many fronts.  We still don't like the guy and hate all his character flaws.  But we can't avoid admitting the good he's done.  MANY people are in this boat.
Yes, leftists who hated him before still hate him now.  No change there.
On the other hand we have Biden... 'nuff said.
So, if we can't decrease the number of Trump voters (because it really doesn't seem like those numbers are diminishing) then the only way for Biden to win...
1) "Get out the vote" with a whole bunch of people who didn't vote for Hillary to come vote for Biden.
2) Cheat.
Given that Biden is pretty much the only choice that could have been worse than Hillary, I doubt option #1 is viable.  But if the Dems focus on Kamala and the 25th amendment... that could work.  Not that I'm a fan of Kamala, but liberals will certainly take her over Trump any day.
Short of that, yeah, they're going to cheat.  What am I saying, they've already been cheating.  We've uncovered at least a dozen incidents of voter fraud all over the country.  And every one of them has been to push the votes towards Democrats.  It is no wonder all the liberals are expecting a landslide in favor of Biden even though there is no rationale for believing such a voter shift would occur.
Suzie points out "too many things have happened".  Yeah, and?  I was a Never-Trumper and I've listened to everything that has gone on.  And I have listened to both Fox and CNN.  From time to time I can even abide some words from MSNBC.  I had every motivation and desire to hate Trump as much as any liberal.  I just didn't have TDS. 
And when I consider all the sides and all the arguments, I'm still seeing that "it's Trump's Fault" simply doesn't pass the mustard.

I had almost the converse reason for not attending.  Not quite a mirror image opposite, but "converse" is about right.
After reading your post, I've realized how unreasonable I've been for avoiding church attendance for my very real reasons.  I hope you may find your reasons are as real as mine, and at the same time your choice to not attend is just as unreasonable as mine has been.
I'm going to repent and go back to church.  I hope you do as well.

What was the experience like? 
We went back for the first time today and it was surreal, depressing and I didn't feel anything because of the distraction of it being so different. Our ward is so divided up (Northeast Area directives) that we only had 18 people there for our session ( granted a couple families were missing). I sat there the whole time wondering what church really is for me. I definitely have felt the spirit more at our home meetings than I did today. I should have felt the spirit at the building today. Everything went ok. But the few families that were there aren't the ones I'm closest to and it made me wonder if the feeling of the spirit has more to do with the emotional warmth of being with people we have a bond with than the "mechanics and structure" how the meeting is carried out. 
 
  

What was the experience like? 
We went back for the first time today and it was surreal, depressing and I didn't feel anything because of the distraction of it being so different. Our ward is so divided up (Northeast Area directives) that we only had 18 people there for our session ( granted a couple families were missing). I sat there the whole time wondering what church really is for me. I definitely have felt the spirit more at our home meetings than I did today. I should have felt the spirit at the building today. Everything went ok. But the few families that were there aren't the ones I'm closest to and it made me wonder if the feeling of the spirit has more to do with the emotional warmth of being with people we have a bond with than the "mechanics and structure" how the meeting is carried out. 
 
  

I don't have Netflix, so I'm not supporting this already.  They don't need to worry about me cancelling...because I don't have them in the first place.  I can see why the movie is offensive just from the picture they posted (poster, or whatever it is) that one can see from a quick google.
I looked up this movie and it seems to have dual messages...and I can see why it won awards.
It seems to pertain to the conflict between religious values of the Islamic faith verses the ideas of modern society and their influences when they crash together within an individual who is part of both worlds.  The confluence between someone who comes from a deeply rooted faith which has some morals which society finds repugnant compared to an activity or involvement in such activity that the religious society finds repugnant.  It is taking the two opposites and exploring what the individual will do or feel during their journey between the two.
Perhaps, in this instance, the age range they chose to use was too young.  It may be more acceptable (to some, for the very religious, probably not) if the young person involved was 18 or older.
The IRONY in this is that dance studios and modern dance classes are VERY POPULAR today in the United States.  People seem to be upset somewhat about this documentary, but have turned a blind eye to the fact that this is happening in almost every city in the US today on a MASSIVE scale.  If they are upset about this documentary (and I can actually see very well why this documentary IS disturbing, though I have not gone out of my way to see any advertising for it, the poster that was shown via google was enough to make me not want to try to find out anything else about the actual film) they should be even more scandalized and angry at what is going on in modern dance teaching with kids as young as 3 or 4 (some cases younger).
In some places, unless you have taken gymnastics and this modern dance training, it is impossible to get into Cheerleading, and cheerleading itself has some aspects related to all of this.  Cheerleaders are found in almost every School from Jr. High on up, sometimes younger.  It's not just this documentary.  This documentary is merely a symptom of a larger and more serious problem that's going on all around us. 
Nevertheless, I don't have a Netflix account and do not plan on having one, so my voice on the matter is probably inconsequential in regards to their decisions.   

Pretend you are Gramps from Ask Gramps and you got this question.  How would you answer it?  Please provide any scripture reference or talk or quote to substantiate your answer.
LDS family members keep saying: "The church teaches that socialism is evil"; but a quick search on lds.org only has talks from the 1980's and earlier. If socialism is as "evil" as my family members think it is, then why aren't the current apostles and prophets currently warning us against it?
 

I agree with this. Though my daughters showed promise in dance ( pop music) , I took them out early ( after a year) or had them do clogging instead. Thankfully, they all eventually opted for soccer or track without me having to fight them on it, much. This was 25-26 years ago for my first daughter. Granted I came from a family where I was the youngest and my mother had me at 42 so I was probably a generation behind in my social acceptance of pop culture of the times.  But I was appalled!! This was a pretty conservative community and the dance club included lots of little LDS girls. The high school age dancers were very  suggestive in their dance. During practices for the big end of year show I watched some of the watchers- high school boys! and I saw it through their eyes. That's when I decided my girls weren't going to be dancers. 
 A decade later when my youngest girls had friends that invited them to take ballroom dance with them, I agreed to let them. And it was cute in the way you think miniature farm animals are cute or a tiny house is cute. Someone small dancing like adults do in a formal and very chaste manner. Cute! Until I watched a performance at a competition including some 14 year old girls salsa dancing.  Then I about puked. And after that I told the girls "sorry" but competetive ballroom dancing wasn't anything I would support if it included dancing like that (much to the dismay of my girls and their friends and their friends' mother who despite being one of the most conservative LDS moms I've ever known, had no problem with her young teenage girls dancing with so much sexual overtone. There was a disconnect there that I still don't understand. ) It would have made me sick to see my own girls in that role. My daughters got over it and, as I said, hopped right into cross country and track without missing a beat.
I have one sweet friend with a tiny 10 year old who has won competitions in dance and she posts lots of pictures of her on social media. I just pray that little girl isn't found by a pedophile. She's an easy target and even very suggestive in, like, first day of school pictures. I take it that her mom thinks it's funny but  I worry for them. 
 

I agree with this. Though my daughters showed promise in dance ( pop music) , I took them out early ( after a year) or had them do clogging instead. Thankfully, they all eventually opted for soccer or track without me having to fight them on it, much. This was 25-26 years ago for my first daughter. Granted I came from a family where I was the youngest and my mother had me at 42 so I was probably a generation behind in my social acceptance of pop culture of the times.  But I was appalled!! This was a pretty conservative community and the dance club included lots of little LDS girls. The high school age dancers were very  suggestive in their dance. During practices for the big end of year show I watched some of the watchers- high school boys! and I saw it through their eyes. That's when I decided my girls weren't going to be dancers. 
 A decade later when my youngest girls had friends that invited them to take ballroom dance with them, I agreed to let them. And it was cute in the way you think miniature farm animals are cute or a tiny house is cute. Someone small dancing like adults do in a formal and very chaste manner. Cute! Until I watched a performance at a competition including some 14 year old girls salsa dancing.  Then I about puked. And after that I told the girls "sorry" but competetive ballroom dancing wasn't anything I would support if it included dancing like that (much to the dismay of my girls and their friends and their friends' mother who despite being one of the most conservative LDS moms I've ever known, had no problem with her young teenage girls dancing with so much sexual overtone. There was a disconnect there that I still don't understand. ) It would have made me sick to see my own girls in that role. My daughters got over it and, as I said, hopped right into cross country and track without missing a beat.
I have one sweet friend with a tiny 10 year old who has won competitions in dance and she posts lots of pictures of her on social media. I just pray that little girl isn't found by a pedophile. She's an easy target and even very suggestive in, like, first day of school pictures. I take it that her mom thinks it's funny but  I worry for them. 
 

I agree with this. Though my daughters showed promise in dance ( pop music) , I took them out early ( after a year) or had them do clogging instead. Thankfully, they all eventually opted for soccer or track without me having to fight them on it, much. This was 25-26 years ago for my first daughter. Granted I came from a family where I was the youngest and my mother had me at 42 so I was probably a generation behind in my social acceptance of pop culture of the times.  But I was appalled!! This was a pretty conservative community and the dance club included lots of little LDS girls. The high school age dancers were very  suggestive in their dance. During practices for the big end of year show I watched some of the watchers- high school boys! and I saw it through their eyes. That's when I decided my girls weren't going to be dancers. 
 A decade later when my youngest girls had friends that invited them to take ballroom dance with them, I agreed to let them. And it was cute in the way you think miniature farm animals are cute or a tiny house is cute. Someone small dancing like adults do in a formal and very chaste manner. Cute! Until I watched a performance at a competition including some 14 year old girls salsa dancing.  Then I about puked. And after that I told the girls "sorry" but competetive ballroom dancing wasn't anything I would support if it included dancing like that (much to the dismay of my girls and their friends and their friends' mother who despite being one of the most conservative LDS moms I've ever known, had no problem with her young teenage girls dancing with so much sexual overtone. There was a disconnect there that I still don't understand. ) It would have made me sick to see my own girls in that role. My daughters got over it and, as I said, hopped right into cross country and track without missing a beat.
I have one sweet friend with a tiny 10 year old who has won competitions in dance and she posts lots of pictures of her on social media. I just pray that little girl isn't found by a pedophile. She's an easy target and even very suggestive in, like, first day of school pictures. I take it that her mom thinks it's funny but  I worry for them. 
 

I keep trying to build up my food storage stocks.  Presently I believe we are up to 120 days of food storage and we have a water purification system that will make a few thousand gallons of water drinkable.  My wife's health is not good so it is hard to build up more food storage as we are spending thousands of dollars now on treatments trying to get her well.  But we will keep trying and working toward a six month supply of food storage.

I have some buddies on the left who are making me think a thread like this is timely and necessary.
To start out on the right foot: 
 
I'm worried about the upcoming election.  
- If Trump wins, the 'rise up against oppression by burning down our own cities' folks will be energized and grow (hopefully for just a short time).
- If Vice President Kamala Harris (and Joe) wins, well, you've got a lot of folks ticked off at inadequate government response to rioting, and a lot of folks ticked off at executive public health orders.  Should we get more blue in charge, and less government standing against rioting, I expect to see an increase of people taking things into their own hands.  
- No matter who wins, if the results are in question because of election fraud, well, losing faith in our institutions weakens us as a nation.  Remember Gore vs. Bush decided by the supreme court?  Think about that, but people are in the streets lighting crap on fire and shooting at each other.  Not good.
 
So, in an effort to help mitigate all that, I'm starting this thread to tackle hoaxes and dumbness.
 
Hoax and dumbness #1: "Trump has put a 10' concrete wall around the White House in order to stay in office."  Pushing this notion is meant to make the president look like a banana republic dictator, unjustly ruling in defiance of the public will.  The reality, is that plans for this latest construction, with new anti-climb features, were started back in Obama's 2nd term.  Cool history of the White House perimeter, involving Nixon, Clinton, GWB, and Obama: Business Insider - The White House is building a massive 'anti-climb' wall following protests. These photos show the evolution of White House fencing over the years
 

I looked into this a little more - since I know nothing about Netflix.  Though I am concerned with the trend, I am not surprised.  I have a beautiful daughter that was very into dance when she was growing up.  She still is.  A few years ago she tried out for a TV show called "So you think you can dance".  She did not make the first cut but was told that she showed promise and should work and try out again.  As a mother of 4 she decided to let go of that dream.
I gave this little back story because 20 years ago this daughter was very into dance.  Of course as a dad, I supported the dreams of my little girl.  Did you see that part about 20 years ago?  I remember going to a competition while this daughter was still in grade school.  Engineers do not know a lot about dance - but I like to think I am a quick learner.  I also married a cheerleader - though I never saw my wife cheer live.  By college she had backed off from cheer-leading.  Anyway watching my little daughter was a bit of a culture shock for me.   Once these little girls get beyond the toddler stage and into serious dance - there are three things that greatly concerned me.  #1. the makeup and hair.  This is way over the top but it is considered part of the training.  #2. are the costumes.   Like the make up the standard is - in my mind - how can I say this???  In the dance world; sexy and cute are synonymous.   I was surprised to learn that part of training a dancer is getting them over the inclination of being embarrassed wearing a costume.  #3. the dance moves.
All of it seemed a little too sexy to me.  Especially for little girls.  
The problem in defining a line between what is acceptable and not acceptable - there is not that much difference between almost to the line and just over the line regardless of where the line is drawn.  And so for my final thought I will quote - Confucius Says:
 
The Traveler

Many regular users have left the site, some thankfully (IMHO) others are missed.   I still read the site daily, but only comment when I feel I have something to add.  
 
While the communication here has slowed, I personally feel it is much more faith-centered and less distracted by trolling and inactive Saints offering seedy advice and opinions that don't firmly side with Church teachings.  
 
Im not the site owner or administrator, but in the past I've stepped back from the site several times due to the conversations.   Now, much of what is posted goes over my head but I still learn by reading.  

Candace Owens is a hoot.

When it got announced I posted on facebook that I was taking bets.  Will she claim to be Indian American as she did for her senate seat or will she now use the black race card?